DPMS .308 at the range

[Redneck 38]

Finally shot the rifle. (18" factory cr/moly barrel). Not impressed, but only tried M-852 ammo. It may want something else. 1.5 moa @ 100 yds.
Got the scope too low, A2 stock bangs my cheekbone, terrible trigger, hellacious cycling noises.

When the budget can stand it, I will put a good trigger in it, get a drop-in .308 barrel from Dan Lilja, and put a riser under the rings. I don't know if it will ever compare with my old M1A match rifle, but it's black and evil looking, so I've got to give it a chance.

Tom

 

[SoundFx]

I'm thinking about getting into the larger AR's too. But it seems like so many folks are disappointed in their rifle's accuracy when it's over 2 moa or so. That seems odd to me because a rack grade M4 is still considered within spec at 4 moa. Why should the rifle inherently be expected to be more accurate just because of it being chambered in a larger caliber? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Pat M]

Got to get a better trigger and some match grade ammo.

 

[lash]

Before you put a new barrel in it, shoot it a bit. Yes, the trigger is rough, it's designed that way as a battle trigger. If you do anything, get the right rings for your scope and a geissele trigger. Then get used to how it shoots. With the .308 AR style, you have to get comfortable and learn how to drive through the recoil pulses.

Personally, a trigger change helped me the most as I was learning how to shoot mine. After a while, groups started closing in.

BTW, what diameter is your scope tube? I have a 1" Burris PEPR mount I'm not using.

 

[SKS Guy]

I may have gotten lucky but I bought a S&W AR10. Put a troy rail on it and can shoot consistent 3/4 moa groups. Have shot some around 1/2 but am confident it will do 3/4 with my handloads everytime when I do my part. Had Bill Springfield clean the trigger up to just under 4 pounds. Best $45 I have spent on a rifle.

 

[jeremyp]

Redneck38, which model DPMS did you get? Is it a GII? I just picked up a DPMS GII SASS yesterday and plan to start my barrel break in tomorrow. I had a good conversation with a DPMS CS Rep today about it. He mentioned that it should get more and more accurate as you get through the break in process. I got to say though, I am a little displeased with the QC from DPMS. The charging handle isn't straight and cycling the handle back about 10-12 times put some pretty big scrapes in the charging handle. It's bowed and slightly twisted, causing it to drag. DPMS is sending me a new one.

 

[Redneck 38]

Jeremyp, I believe it's an Oracle. I didn't expect much from it, and the price was right. I can afford the Lilja barrel and a good trigger and still be at $1500. I don't think I could buy separate pcs and put them together for less.

Pat, 10-4 on the trigger. G.I. M852 N/M ammo is good ammo, but rifles are individuals so.....

Lash, let me know what you'll take for the mount.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Tom

 

[Pat M]

I run the RockRiver two stage trigger (about $100) in mine, it is a very crisp 4lb on second stage. I run the Sierra 175, and adjustable gas block (tunes nice and mellows the cycling)

 

[Jmo]

I encountered the same with both of my DPMS's (SASS & LR with the A2), I found that they love the Hornady TAP 168gr. I am going to upgrade to the Geissele as well.

 

[goldeneagle76]

I have a DPMS LR 308 and replaced trigger (geissele) and stock to a Magpul PRS and it loved my handloads with 168gr AMAX bullets. Definitely within 1 MOA all day

 

[jeremyp]

Did any of you guys follow DPMS' instructions for barrel break in, or did you just go and shoot it as normal? This is my third rifle and I've followed the tedious barrel break-in instructions on the other two and they are both sub MOA...a Rock River LAR-15 HBAR and Howa Axiom 308 20" heavy barrel. Just curious to hear what you guys have been doing with your DPMS rifles. And by the way, I'm also a huge fan of the Rock River 2 stage trigger. It's an awesome out of the box trigger.

 

[Redneck 38]

Lash, you have a P/M.

Tom

 

[donws2]

I've had three DPMS 308's and now have a factory 243 from DPMS. All have been very accuracy considering they are gas guns. Often MOA or better groups with hand loads. If you're shooting sub two MOA with factory ammo I'd look to maybe build my own ammo and try it again. As well the DPMS trigger is not target grade at all. I polish all my AR triggers but if that's not your thing look to buy one of the better two stage or single stage after market trigger. A new trigger alone can make a world of difference in an AR platform.

 

[samnev]

I'd 2nd a new trigger install. My favorite is the Geissele SSA-E. I have now put 6 Geissele's in my AR's. It really helps to shrink group size.

 

[diggler1833]

My LR-308B shot 2 MOA with factory hunting ammo, and a bit better than MOA with 168gr Atomic. I tried 10 handloads through it, most hovering around 1-1.25MOA with only two of those 10 efforts producing sub MOA groups. However, duplicating FGMM's 175gr load produced amazing results. Try more than just one type of match ammo through yours before giving up on accuracy.

I also replaced the trigger on mine to an SSA, huge improvement over the factory offering. Then I replaced the carbine length hand guard on mine with a rifle length PRI. By the time I improved mine to how I want it I'm ~$1,650 into this rifle. It shoots now though, and I also no longer make the 'stink face' when I pick it up out of the safe as I like the way it looks too.

 

[Birddog6424]

Finally shot the rifle. (18" factory cr/moly barrel). Not impressed, but only tried M-852 ammo. It may want something else. 1.5 moa @ 100 yds.
Got the scope too low, A2 stock bangs my cheekbone, terrible trigger, hellacious cycling noises.

When the budget can stand it, I will put a good trigger in it, get a drop-in .308 barrel from Dan Lilja, and put a riser under the rings. I don't know if it will ever compare with my old M1A match rifle, but it's black and evil looking, so I've got to give it a chance.

Tom

I think you are jumping the gun here (pardon the pun) on giving the weapon the thumbs down after one trip to the range. First of all, it's the Oracle, not the GII SASS or 24" Bull. It's the very bottom of the DPMS lineup, not the top. A 1.5" MoA with a crappy trigger, basic factory ammo, and a barrel not broken in yet seems pretty good to me. Chances are awfully good that the grouping will improve. But if that rifle shoots at MoA, you are doing great. I would be damn surprised if it shoots sub MoA.

You have to appreciate the weapon for what it is. A 7.62 battle rifle. Not a DMR or sniper system.

 

[Redneck 38]

You're right, birddog, I knew it was their entry level rifle when I got it. I forget which gunwriter said it, but "only accurate rifles are interesting", so will make improvements as the budget permits.

The first one was an A2 stock, then a Burris P.E.P.R. mount that I got on this site. A very strong mount (and Lash is a good guy to deal with).
It gives me a solid, comfortable cheekweld that I didn't have before. Looking forward to shooting it again with the M852 and some other ammo too.

I hate shooting in the hot weather, but will update the thread when I do.

Thanks to all, Tom

 

[Birddog6424]

Good luck with it Tom.

I think along with the improvements you've already made, a nice clean breaking trigger and a couple hundred rounds down the tube ought to settle it in nicely.

 

[lash]

Good luck with it Tom.

I think along with the improvements you've already made, a nice clean breaking trigger and a couple hundred rounds down the tube ought to settle it in nicely.

I agree. Find a trigger style you like and make that your last upgrade and then get some rounds down range while learning the nuances of that rifle. I found a Geissele SSA to be my answer.

 

[Lizardette]

I'll second the Rock River two-stage national match trigger. It's a quality product for a good price. Until you get a different trigger, one thing that can help with a mil-spec trigger is not using the tip of your forefinger for trigger manipulation. Try using a part further down toward or even past the knuckle. I don't know if it's better leverage or stronger muscles doing the work, but it makes a heavy gritty trigger easier to squeeze smoothly and consistently.

Aside from giving the barrel more time to break in, you might want to try shooting longer strings and giving the barrel less time to cool. My DPMS shoots tighter groups the warmer the barrel is, up to a certain point.

 

[steppenwolf]

Finally shot the rifle. (18" factory cr/moly barrel). Not impressed, but only tried M-852 ammo. It may want something else. 1.5 moa @ 100 yds. Got the scope too low, A2 stock bangs my cheekbone, terrible trigger, hellacious cycling noises. When the budget can stand it, I will put a good trigger in it, get a drop-in .308 barrel from Dan Lilja, and put a riser under the rings. I don't know if it will ever compare with my old M1A match rifle, but it's black and evil looking, so I've got to give it a chance.
Tom

Dude, it sounds like you got a *parts* gun masquerading as a 308 AR. It's junk, get rid of it.

Take a look at LMT's MRP MWS or their light(er)-weight MRP LM8. The Brit military adopted the 16" MWS. And not because it had a goofy A2 square-range "target" stock, made "hellacious cycling noises," or had the sort of heavy, gritty trigger that only a gorilla could love. Just sayin'.

 

[hlee]

Go but a box of every 308 load you can find. I really like 168 FGMM, 168 bthp hornady match, and 168 gr hornady zmax. These all shoot 1 moa or better in my LR 308. And, hand loads shoot better still. A gun is like an athlete. It's only as good as what you feed it.

 

[Regalkismet]

If you really want to tame your 308 and it's recoil impulses put an adjustable gas block on it.... Makes a huge difference in a 308...i suggest either a SLR or Syrac.

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

Can anybody let me know where is a good place to buy the Rock River Two Stage Trigger??? Thanks!

 

[Birddog6424]

Dude, it sounds like you got a *parts* gun masquerading as a 308 AR. It's junk, get rid of it.

Take a look at LMT's MRP MWS or their light(er)-weight MRP LM8. The Brit military adopted the 16" MWS. And not because it had a goofy A2 square-range "target" stock, made "hellacious cycling noises," or had the sort of heavy, gritty trigger that only a gorilla could love. Just sayin'.

He bought an $850 rifle. At least he is into the AR10 game.

Without having even the slightest clue as to what he will be using it for, you call it junk and tell him to go buy a $3000 rifle. Great social skills. God Bless the internet.

Next time you want to pimp LMT and share your opinion, maybe you shouldn't segue in by insulting their current choice of a firearm. Just sayin'.

 

[6xcKY]

He bought an $850 rifle. At least he is into the AR10 game.

Without having even the slightest clue as to what he will be using it for, you call it junk and tell him to go buy a $3000 rifle. Great social skills. God Bless the internet.

Next time you want to pimp LMT and share your opinion, maybe you shouldn't segue in by insulting their current choice of a firearm. Just sayin'.

My thoughts exactly. Steppenwolf is about as helpful as a TR representative over the phone. Dont dog someone on their purchase, budget, or capabilities, but instead be supportive and helpful.

Maybe he couldnt afford to drop $2k+ on a rifle all at once? I know I cant, I have always built and shot on a budget, but it works, eventually. I am in the same boat Redneck.

Just bought a DPMS LR308 24" stainless, with the target (high) receiver), etc. I know its not the best out of the box, but it was what I could afford, and I am planning on switching out a lot with it. But for now, I will play with it as it is.

Dont let some internet-expert ruin your day, have fun with what you got, and improve it when you can, the best advice I ever got when starting out in this hobby was "Dont take food off your table to fund your hobbies" and its good advice.

There is always tomorrow for a reason, and that reason could be a trigger, barrel, optics, etc.

 

[Redneck 38]

Birddog, 6xc, et al, thanks. I did pay less than $850 for it, it isn't a parts gun (yet), but it got me into the evil .308 black gun game. I will use it mostly on hogs. My technique is to hose them down. Hit some, kill some, kill rocks, cedar trees, etc also, but hogs remember longer when you blaze away at them. I once got off 14 rds out of an FAL clone. Killed 4 hogs, several rocks, a couple of cedar trees, and didn't see any hogs for over 3 months. Kept them off my feeder.

Been lucky. Hulls flying around, ricocheting all around inside my stand, and haven't got one inside my clothes yet. They're hot enough to stick to you if you get one on you..... Probably will now.......

The M1A throws them out at 2 o'clock, but the DPMS piles them up at 4 o'clock. Most will stay inside the stand unfortunately, like the FAL did.

Anyway, I like any rifle to be better than me, so I'll try to get it well under moa. That way, when the pooch gets screwed, I know who's fault it is.

Tom

 

[steppenwolf]

Birddog, 6xc, et al, thanks. I did pay less than $850 for it, it isn't a parts gun (yet), but it got me into the evil .308 black gun game. I will use it mostly on hogs. My technique is to hose them down. Hit some, kill some, kill rocks, cedar trees, etc also, but hogs remember longer when you blaze away at them. I once got off 14 rds out of an FAL clone. Killed 4 hogs, several rocks, a couple of cedar trees, and didn't see any hogs for over 3 months. Kept them off my feeder.

Been lucky. Hulls flying around, ricocheting all around inside my stand, and haven't got one inside my clothes yet. They're hot enough to stick to you if you get one on you..... Probably will now.......

The M1A throws them out at 2 o'clock, but the DPMS piles them up at 4 o'clock. Most will stay inside the stand unfortunately, like the FAL did.

Anyway, I like any rifle to be better than me, so I'll try to get it well under moa. That way, when the pooch gets screwed, I know who's fault it is.
Tom

Tom: glad you like the DPMS & it works for you.
My earlier comments about it being a "parts gun" were meant tounge-in-cheek, but I can see how they got construed otherwise, so my apologies for that. Enjoy your rifle.

 

[Redneck 38]

No sweat Step. If it wasn't fun, I'd find some other way to spend what's left of my time and money. Switching from a sub minute M1A (shot it in matches through the 80's and 90's, including Perry twice) to an awkward looking and feeling AR platform ain't easy for an old guy.

Good shooting, Tom

 

[mtrmn]

I own a few of the sorriest POS AR's on the market. (according to popular opinion) So far I have managed to get 1.5 MOA or (usually) better out of every one of them at 100 yds. Most of them still have the stock triggers that I polished myself to be smoother (Yeah I know......). Others have various 2-stage triggers that make accuracy a lot easier for me to realize. I would prefer to upgrade triggers in them all, but that gets expensive after about the 4th or 5th one. By far the biggest accuracy improvement I've seen was finding the best load for each individual gun. I fully agree with those who have told you you need to find ammo YOUR gun likes.

It may be the cheapest entry level gun, but I'd bet the accuracy potential is there without changing barrels etc, you just have to find it. That is, as long as the barrel is properly torqued etc.

 

[Redneck 38]

Good, informative replies! Made this a good thread.

Thanks to all, Tom