DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

[teddy12b]

I got a phone call today saying that the DPMS Mark 12 308's are in. I've been wanting to get my hands on one ever since I saw them advertised on the website. It has every option that I'd want and none that I don't.

Features:
18" teflon coated stainless barrel
Free floated rails
6 position stock
Back up Iron Sights
2-stage trigger
308 power

Only downside is that nothing is free and the rifle would be about $1700 after shipping & FFL.

I'm thinking this could be a great rifle at the range, hunting, and if SHTF it'd be nice gun to have around.

I'd like to know what you all think of this rifle in terms of overall quality & value. To me it just seems like such an amazing package for a reasonable price.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

The Mk 12 term is being used very loosely in the industry right now. Armalite just released a monolithic upper with an 16" barrel the are calling a Mk 12 Mod 1.

Now DPMS using the term for a 762? 762 .mil ARs are supposed to have 11 in the identifier somewhere.

Whatever.

 

[teddy12b]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I'm not really interested in it because of the name. They could have named it ABC rifle or whatever. I'm just curious what people think of the rifle as a precision rig that's compact and that can also reach out there.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

well, I have a DPMS Mini-SASS in 223, a DPMS SASS and a DPMS AP4 in 308 with and 16" barrel. I guess you can call me a DPMS whore but I like all of them and they are great shooters. My favorite is the mini-sass because it nice to shoot, very accurate (3/4 MOA) and cheaper to shoot than my 308's. I would have no issue to buy the DPMS brand. I am not sure why they are using the 308 term with a Mk12 as that term is used for 223's but whatever. They are nice rifles and I wouldn't hesitate to get one for the right price.

 

[pupdawg]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I would just get it if it's the rifle "you've been looking at for a long time." I'm sure it'll shoot well.

On a side note, I've noticed (it could just be a coincidence) that DPMS likes to name their rifles after whatever Armalite and others name theirs. Like the AR10(T) and LR-308(T), the AR10 super-(SASS) and LRT-(SASS), the LWRC (REPR) and the Panther (REPR), now the AR10 (Mk12) and the Panther (Mk12). It's just funny.

 

[ORD]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

A .308 semi-auto by any other name...it is just a name.

The DPMS Mk12 308 rifle is a good setup. There is absolutely nothing special about the Mk12...that is just the designation that DPMS decided to use on the rifle. They are reliable (run it with Magpul LR-20 PMAGs), capable of very good accuracy with quality ammo and when the shooter does his part, and do offer good value for the money.

As for the $1700 price tag...I think that if you shop around, you can beat that price (delivered) by at least $50 or more.

 

[limamike56]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I had an opportunity to shoot a friend's DPMS Mark 12 in 5.56 a couple of weeks ago and was impressed for a semi auto in this price range. Accurate with nice fit and finish, very good trigger and balances well. Our groups were just under than an inch with Black Hills 75 grain. He has a Mark 12 in 7.62 that he says shoots 1.25 to 1.50 groups and is just as reliable. He loves both rifles.

Have found a couple DPMS Mark 12 in 5.56 for around $1550 but with shipping and tax it is just under $1700.00. If anyone knows of a better deal I would appreciate knowing who has them available.

 

[BCP]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

1700 isn't bad for a 308 AR if it has the features you want, that's how much I spent building my 308 dpms sass clone. DPMS mags I had to bend the feed lips but Pmags and cproducts work fine.

edit: that mark 12 looks like a skimmed down sass, I like it.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I have a SASS and I don't have a single complaint with it other than being picky about ammo but that's common to .308 autos with 18 inch barrels. It's a lot of gun for the price.

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Small point, but the faggotry with the naming is ridiculous.

SASS - Semi-Auto Sniper System, US Army Program of Record
REPR - Rapid Engagement Precision Rifle, USMC Program of Record

Both are the same weapon system with some small differences in accessories -- the KAC M110

Now just think how much sence it would make for us at KAC to market a rifle and call it SCAR?


The Mk12's are 5.56mm 18" USSOCOM (and USMC) rifles, built for Crane by a third party.

Want to make a gun called something, win the contract...

 

[ADT]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Immitation is a sign of flattery

 

[teddy12b]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lIMAMIKE56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He has a Mark 12 in 7.62 that he says shoots 1.25 to 1.50 groups and is just as reliable. He loves both rifles.</div></div>

I was reading an article in a magazine called Rifle Shooter and the average group they got with the rifle was 1.25". I was hoping that was just a fluke but if your friend has this rifle, then I've got two sources telling me they aren't a sub-moa gun and I don't like the sound of that.

I'm not really getting hung up on the name, can't say I care one bit.

 

[BCP]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

If they are like the dpms sass ones they can shoot sub inch at 100, just have to use heavy bullets and handload. They are also difficult to shoot take a lot of practice. Once you get it figured out though it will probably surprise you.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Want to make a gun called something, win the contract... </div></div>

Or as the owner of your business just name it what you want provided you don't infringe on patent or trademark.

I worked government contracts post-military so lets not pretend that you won your contract based solely on your product...I've witnessed first hand the sleazy tactics that contractors will use to get taxpayer dollars. Get over yourself already.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teddy12b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lIMAMIKE56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He has a Mark 12 in 7.62 that he says shoots 1.25 to 1.50 groups and is just as reliable. He loves both rifles.</div></div>

I was reading an article in a magazine called Rifle Shooter and the average group they got with the rifle was 1.25". I was hoping that was just a fluke but if your friend has this rifle, then I've got two sources telling me they aren't a sub-moa gun and I don't like the sound of that.

I read the same article. I believe the MK12 is more battle rifle than percision rifle. However, 10" at 800 yards aint bad.

I'm not really getting hung up on the name, can't say I care one bit. </div></div>

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teddy12b</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lIMAMIKE56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He has a Mark 12 in 7.62 that he says shoots 1.25 to 1.50 groups and is just as reliable. He loves both rifles.</div></div>

I was reading an article in a magazine called Rifle Shooter and the average group they got with the rifle was 1.25". I was hoping that was just a fluke but if your friend has this rifle, then I've got two sources telling me they aren't a sub-moa gun and I don't like the sound of that.

I'm not really getting hung up on the name, can't say I care one bit. </div></div>

The way I see it is that one person's definition of accurate differs from another guy's definition. If I'm paying $1700 for a gas gun, yeah, I'd want it to be at least 1 MOA accurate. But as experienced gas gun drivers will tell you, there's a lot more to driving a gas gun well than there is to getting great accuracy out of bolt guns. I believe that's why GAP offers a 1MOA accuracy guarantee on their gas guns - many people don't handle the recoil impulses properly to get the most out of the gas rig.

I think people also get WAY too wrapped around the axle about military rifle clones. If someone swallows the "if the military uses it, that must make it great" mentality, they are likely to be disappointed. Some military contract weapons are great; others, not so much. Never underestimate the principle of contracts going to the lowest bidder who meets the military requirements.

For $1700, I would look elsewhere for an accurate rig. For $700 more, you can snag the GAP DPMS 308 in the For Sale section and may even talk the guys into cutting the barrel length down to 18" or so to make it a bit handier. Then you've got a known shooter from an excellent builder, with great re-sale value.

I'd expect an $1200 AR10 to be 1.5MOA, so getting just a quarter inch better average for $500 more seems like the accuracy fails to counterbalance the added expenditure.

 

[teddy12b]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I couldn't argee more about expecting better accuracy for that kind of money. Back when I had the DPMS 308B I could get just shy of 1/2" groups at 100 using federal gold medal match and black hills. I was expecting this new rifle to have that same level of accuracy, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Maybe I'll just get another 308B and mod it the way I'd like it to be.

 

[ORD]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

If you are looking for a precision 308 AR, then the Mark 12 isn't it. They are very good for what they are, but they weren't designed or built to be sub-MOA rifles. The one I shot consistently got 1.0-1.25MOA with good ammo, which I consider very good for a "battle rifle" style semi-auto.

As for the GAP LR-308 (at least the one currently for sale), it has a 3/4 MOA guarantee and I think you'll find it will likely be capable of better with some load development.

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Want to make a gun called something, win the contract... </div></div>

Or as the owner of your business just name it what you want provided you don't infringe on patent or trademark.

I worked government contracts post-military so lets not pretend that you won your contract based solely on your product...I've witnessed first hand the sleazy tactics that contractors will use to get taxpayer dollars. Get over yourself already.</div></div>

Dude you think anything sleazy goes on at KAC your crazy, Mr. Knight is way to cheap to buy off anyone or anything like that...

I'll put our 16" and 20" guns against anyone else's guns on the planet.

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KevinB-KAC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude you think anything sleazy goes on at KAC your crazy, Mr. Knight is way to cheap to buy off anyone or anything like that...

I'll put our 16" and 20" guns against anyone else's guns on the planet. </div></div>
Buy-off's are more accurately termed "lobbying" and they <span style="text-decoration: underline">all</span> do it. I think the larger point to be made is that to imply that any acronym <span style="font-style: italic">belongs</span> to someone in a business that is built around someones elses design is just a little...well...off.

Manufacturers aside, the AR platform has been around since slightly before 1959. Everyone, and I mean <span style="text-decoration: underline">everyone</span> that has come along since then has essentially copied someone elses (Stoner's) design. In that light, no one has room to throw stones in this glass whorehouse.

That said, I would fully expect you to put yours up against any other and my personal opinion is that you'd absolutely deserve to be there. But the reality is that others are now pulling off the same feat at a lower price. Maybe that makes KAC squirm a bit given that winning a contract, has no bearing on your ability to keep one.

Either way, that's not your competitors fault.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

wow....all the accuracy talk - what about a stock DPMS LR-308 that poeple are driving tacks with......???? I guess I cant "drive" mine since I get 1.75" groups (5) and I do .375 (5) groups with my savage bolt with the same loads....I am about to give up...on the gas .308s

 

[SwatSgt]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I have an LR-308 and it is a sub-moa gun with any factory match ammo. I have shot Hornady and Federal Gold Medal match out of it. Even 150 grain PSP Rem corelokt shot about 1.15"

With my handloads I am getting .4" groups shooting SMK with Varget. Its not the Mk-12 the thread started talking about but it is a DPMS 308 if that makes you feel anybetter lol

Good luck with your new purchase

Watch your 6....

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Since we're talking accuracy, this is too funny...
Went to the range this AM to dial in a USO to the SASS. For whatever reason my wife decided to accompany me. After getting her dialed in I let the Mrs shoot a group and this is her 1st ever target with a LRT-SASS. As I was calling out her hits she was getting cocky and talking smack but she pulled the last round slightly left AND forget about the benefit of a good shoulder weld.

The scope whacked her on the bridge of the nose. It sure shut her up and she was unable to repeat that 1st target but the worst she did was 1.5 MOA all morning with most around 1 inch.

That bitch

This one was my best. Yes...there are 5 rounds in that hole.

 

[BCP]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Yeap, that's how mine shoots if I actually pay attention, watch my breathing, good cheekweld etc. Shooting and loading for it has been a learning experience.

 

[BCP]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tundraotto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow....all the accuracy talk - what about a stock DPMS LR-308 that poeple are driving tacks with......???? I guess I cant "drive" mine since I get 1.75" groups (5) and I do .375 (5) groups with my savage bolt with the same loads....I am about to give up...on the gas .308s </div></div>

What is your load?

 

[WldWldWest]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Mine shoot's ok for a cheap ass ole DPMS!

 

[ghi]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Having had several DPMS and many Stoner rifles, I'd go with a Stoner SR-25 over a DPMS 308 every time. In my experience, the fit,feel,and accuracy inherent in the Stoner rifle system is second to none. As a previous post said, all the other manufacturers are taking a ride on Eugene Stoner's coattails.

 

[TheShooter]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Seni-autos are much more difficult to shoot accurately than a bolt.

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tundraotto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow....all the accuracy talk - what about a stock DPMS LR-308 that poeple are driving tacks with......???? I guess I cant "drive" mine since I get 1.75" groups (5) and I do .375 (5) groups with my savage bolt with the same loads....I am about to give up...on the gas .308s</div></div>

I know the feeling brother. i have a DPMS LR308 I purchased 4 months ago and put over $1000 in upgrades(Magpul,Geissele,Rails,Grip etc). I have tried and tried with various recipes of 168's and 175's (over 300-400 rnds now) and the damn thing won't group for crap. I finally got fed up this past week and ordered a 26" Krieger bbl. for it in .260 rem. Im hoping the upgrade finally makes it a shooter but if I could go back I would either purchase a custom made or just purchase another bolt gun. Guess I just got caught up in all the hype about their accuracy. Perhaps I was unfortunate and got a lemon but I cant advise anyone to roll the dice w/DPMS and see what they get. My advise is Custom made if your looking for accuracy.

 

[tomahawk84]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I'm building a 308 based off pof-usa upper lower and rail it will be a do gun with sass fluted barrel

 

[KillShot]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cuffm4615</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">...My advise is Custom made if your looking for accuracy.</span></div></div>


There are plenty of manufacturers that offer sub-MOA accuracy in their rifles but you're going to pay for it. A few examples (in no particular order) would be POF*USA, Knights Armament, Noveske, LaRue, LMT, and LWRC.

 

[BaileyMoto]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

Next thing you know, DPMS will make a 20" 50 cal with a fixed carry handle and call it the Panther M16A1. Why not a 6.5 with a 14.5" bull barrel and call it the Panther m4 while they are it?

Plenty of m16 derivatives in the field, but they all have their designations for a reason.

 

[Snakum]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seni-autos are much more difficult to shoot accurately than a bolt.</div></div>

Why would that be? Can you elaborate?

I shoot my bolt gun pretty well, when I'm practicing regularly. But a recent semi purchase has been problematic. Thus, inquiring minds want to know. I figured I just haven't found the magic load yet.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: DPMS Mark 12 308's are in, what do you think?

I believe it has to do with the way the recoil is transfered.. push, pull, push vs the single push of a bolt. Learning how to ride the recoil pulse and follow through is different.