Sidearms & Scatterguns Drinking the CZ coolaid, which model?

[KyleJ]

Looking for a new competition oriented full size 9mm. I'm a lifelong Glock owner but I've recently fallen in love with the full steel CZs. I'd like to get into USPSA eventually. I am currently doing all my practicing with a box stock G19 gen5. It's a fine firearm but it's not all that pleasing to shoot. It's also my primary carry/defensive firearm so I'd prefer not to modify it much. I really would like to add a full frame/range only handgun that I can change as I please and enjoy shooting a bit more.

Currently I'm looking at
CZ75 SP01 to shoot and modify as I see fit
OR
Lightly used or good deal on a new Shadow 2

I like the Shadow 2 frame better and it certainly comes with some nice features. I'd like to swap it to a flat trigger, add a flared magwell and shoot it to my heart's content.

The SP01 would likely get a few CGW upgrades, same magwell and grips.

Which would you choose? Save a bit longer for a Shadow 2 or buy an Sp01 immediately and start shooting/upgrading as I find necessary. I'm OK with buy once cry once if it's clearly the better option . Go easy on me if any of this came off as uneducated. I'm very new to the world of competition shooting.

 

[Kadams1563]

Eh flat trigger and magwell means your going to Limited division. That’s kinda a no go for 9mm as you get scored minor power factor.

The CZ’s are kings of production division. Get a Shadow, SP01 with CGW upgrades or a Shadow 2.

The Shadow 2 is the New New. It it doesn’t have just a ton of things over a regular shadow.

I have a complete Shadow Custom I might sale if really interested.

 

[mgrs]

Shadow 2 for a turnkey production gun.

Seeing more and more of them, and every shooter that has one is tickled with it. Last squad I shot with had a shooter with 70K rounds on one who had replaced only springs over that time.

Granted, most guns have a very long life with USPSA production reloads.

 

[Sieg]

I have a Shadow 2 and a SIG X-Carry. I'd also take a look at the SIG X-Five.

 

[KyleJ]

I'm more than open to other brands/models. I'd say my budget is floating around $1k for the time being. Can't quite break into 2011 territory yet.

 

[Shadow knows]

I ran a sig legion SAO for a season which worked great. Still own it as a backup I guess. I also have a WC 92G with a Langdon tactical trigger in a bag kit installed and that is actually my main backup if my shadow 2 w/ CGW bushing, disco,extended firing pin/spring, trigger spring and floating pin, hammer and recoil spring.
The shadow 2 is just in another level of wow not that the other two are not wow.

In reference to your sp-01 question, that comes with a firing pin block like series 80 vs the shadow 2 does not like the series 70. Makes the trigger just a wee bit better.

However like said earlier the sig 320 x five is no slouch and has a flat trigger, comes in under your price point. Flaired magwell can be removed I believe.

 

[Novak77]

I have 2x SP01 shadows and they’re bad ass pistols. My buddy has a shadow 2 and it’s a bad ass pistol.

I’d start with a SP01 and move up from there. Either way you’re getting a nice setup, especially if you plan on sending a SP01 off to CGW or CZC.

 

[308pirate]

Looking for a new competition oriented full size 9mm. I'm a lifelong Glock owner but I've recently fallen in love with the full steel CZs. I'd like to get into USPSA eventually. I am currently doing all my practicing with a box stock G19 gen5. It's a fine firearm but it's not all that pleasing to shoot. It's also my primary carry/defensive firearm so I'd prefer not to modify it much. I really would like to add a full frame/range only handgun that I can change as I please and enjoy shooting a bit more.

Currently I'm looking at
CZ75 SP01 to shoot and modify as I see fit
OR
Lightly used or good deal on a new Shadow 2

I like the Shadow 2 frame better and it certainly comes with some nice features. I'd like to swap it to a flat trigger, add a flared magwell and shoot it to my heart's content.

The SP01 would likely get a few CGW upgrades, same magwell and grips.

Which would you choose? Save a bit longer for a Shadow 2 or buy an Sp01 immediately and start shooting/upgrading as I find necessary. I'm OK with buy once cry once if it's clearly the better option . Go easy on me if any of this came off as uneducated. I'm very new to the world of competition shooting.

Definitely a Shadow 2

I will say something that will most likely fall on deaf ears: If you have any interest at all in USPSA, READ the rule book and ask questions in the relevant forums about which mods will land you in what division. Otherwise you run a good chance of doing something to your pistol that will land you in a place where the gun will not be competitive regardless of your skill level.

 

[KyleJ]

Thats what I have been doing. I've gotten my hands on some CZs this week and I'm going to pick up a Shadow 2 and a P10C. I'm planning to shoot production and I'll likely leave the Shadow 2 stock for quite some time.

 

[kriller134]

I have a Sp01 done up by Cajun and it’s a fantastic gun. It’s way better than my stock shadow 2. In production you have to start off in double action, so you’re gonna want to get that DA lightened up. If you can swing it, send a s2 to Cajun and it’ll be an absolute beast. If not I’d get a sp01 and send it to Cajun for right around the same price as a stock s2. If you do up any of these guns you’ll want to reload so you can tune your gun to a 130 power factor and avoid light strikes too.

 

[mgrs]

Definitely a Shadow 2

I will say something that will most likely fall on deaf ears: If you have any interest at all in USPSA, READ the rule book and ask questions in the relevant forums about which mods will land you in what division. Otherwise you run a good chance of doing something to your pistol that will land you in a place where the gun will not be competitive regardless of your skill level.

This is good advice. Open minor is not generally a happy place. Your belt and holster could also land you there.

 

[308pirate]

Open minor is not generally a happy place. Your belt and holster could also land you there.

And Limited minor is barely any better

 

[KyleJ]

Like I said, I am almost 100% that I am going to run in Production for a while. This is my first foray into competition shooting. I have done a lot of research but the USPSA rule book is a daunting one. If I decide that I love it and want to move into limited or open, I will add a 2011 or TSO to my inventory.

Thanks for the help all. I am excited to get one in my hands and start practicing.

 

[308pirate]

If you want to compete in Production, simply don't fuck with the gun and shoot it as it came. A serious training regimen of dry and live fire drills will get you farther along than anything you can buy for the gun.

If you buy anything, buy Ben Stoeger's books.

 

[mgrs]

And Limited minor is barely any better

Also yes. I was thinking of the nice 'bump' you get to open if your equipment does not meet your declared division per 6.2.5.1.

Like I said, I am almost 100% that I am going to run in Production for a while. This is my first foray into competition shooting. I have done a lot of research but the USPSA rule book is a daunting one. If I decide that I love it and want to move into limited or open, I will add a 2011 or TSO to my inventory.

Thanks for the help all. I am excited to get one in my hands and start practicing.

Production is a good place to start. The greater level of stage planning it (and for that matter single stack) requires is fun and you generally aren't fighting your equipment as much as you see in the divisions where performance envelopes are pushed and tinkering is more common.

Your training plan is everything if you want to be competitive. Ben Stoeger and Brian Enos both have pretty good books you can pick up and gain some by reading. Stoeger's is definitely more functional around building a training plan while Enos' book gets heavy into the esoteric elements.

Edit: 308pirate above just beat me to the punch.

 

[Wyzrd]

To the OP, I run a CZ Shadow 1 that has had some upgraded springs installed. So far those are the only things I’ve messed with. It is an awesome pistol, and I use it for 2 gun matches, IDPA, Steel Challenge, etc. Eventually, I’d like to get the SAO flat face trigger for it, but even as is right now, it’s an amazing shooter! My wife is gonna be getting the Sig P320 X5 competition gun and that could be another option if you don’t mind striker fired guns. Now, as much as I love my Shadow, I do plan on getting a Shadow 2 also.

Depending on your budget, you can always skip over those and go straight for the CZ TSO. I think those are as good as it gets before jumping into custom 2011 territory. Anyways, good luck and post some pics once you get it!

 

[W54/XM-388]

I recently Got the Shadow TAC II model, which is pretty nice, but the trigger pull in DA is around 10+ pounds & in SA is about 4.5 pounds or so.
I'm assuming it could be sent to CGW and lightened up a bit while still being really reliable?

 

[DXT_Shooter]

I have a SP01 Shadow Orange and had CZ Custom put in short reset and polish internals and new springs. It’s a very nice gun is way more accurate than I am. I bought it planning on shooting competitively but never go around to it seeing I am always traveling for work. ?

 

[DownhillFromHere]

With props to other USPSA competitors who have contributed to this thread, let me add my $.02 as a "less-competitive competitor." That is, I shoot USPSA matches once in awhile, but I also shoot other tactical-style matches like steel challenge and unsanctioned variants of USPSA "style" (for example, USPSA-type stages with all-steel targets that have to be knocked down - no cardboard).

When I shoot USPSA, I'm not after points, so I really don't care about the power factor side of it. And the other, less-formal matches I attend allow pretty much anything that's safe to shoot.

With all that said, the best handgun I've ever played with is my CZ Tactical Sport Orange (TSO) in 9mm. It's a big, heavy thing which gets classed in USPSA Limited Minor - but since I don't care about points, who cares? Everything else about it is perfect for me. There are only two firearms in my safe that I can say will never get traded for something else, and the TSO is one of them.

The only pistols I've ever fired with a better trigger - or even as good as the TSO - are 1911s. The TSO factory trigger weight is too light for some people - under 1.5 pounds - but I love it. The TSO is cheaper than the STIs and similar 1911-based competitors. From what I've observed and been told, the STIs take some tuning to get them running optimally - for example, one guy I know who shoots one in the non-sanctioned matches uses 9mm loads so light that they will knock over a standard 6" plate rack target only with a "high" hit, and maybe not even then - the rounds sound more like .22 than 9mm, but don't kick much more than a .22 either. Obviously he's got a lighter spring and other items to support those "bunny fart" loads.

The TSO comes with 3 different-weight springs and a bunch of other bits. It is a superbly accurate platform. If "competition lite" is more attractive than maximizing potential USPSA use, take a look at this thread on the Brian Enos forum.
https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/245305-accushadow-vs-tac-sport-orange/

 

[perttime]

Shadow 2 should be a good choice, if you don't want to go for a TSO or plain TS.
On Brian Enos Forum, new people to USPSA often get the advice to shoot Limited Division, instead of Production, with a Shadow 2. Two reasons:
1) you get to start cocked and locked, instead of double action, which is easier.
2) you get to use the full magazine capacity, which is one thing less to remember, and gives you more options for planning your reloads.

 

[KyleJ]

Good advice from all, I really do appreciate it.

One reason I was leaving towards the Shadow was that it gives the option to run in production or limited. It's fairly simple to swap to single action only. Limited minor doesn't bother me, all my handguns/stored ammo/reloading setup are currently 9mm and at this time buying a .40 just to shoot major power factor doesn't really appeal to me. If I love the sport and it's all I want to do, I have no problem spending the cash to add equipment in the future.

Thanks for the help everyone. You've given me a lot of info and lots of things to consider that I hadn't thought of yet.

 

[mgrs]

Shadow 2 should be a good choice, if you don't want to go for a TSO or plain TS.
On Brian Enos Forum, new people to USPSA often get the advice to shoot Limited Division, instead of Production, with a Shadow 2. Two reasons:
1) you get to start cocked and locked, instead of double action, which is easier.
2) you get to use the full magazine capacity, which is one thing less to remember, and gives you more options for planning your reloads.

Also good points, and I have encouraged some first time shooters to do this although they showed up with production rigs. Just less to think about for those first stages and when being competitive is not important.

Granted, you can be competitive in limited minor with what is basically a production gun, but limited is often populated with a higher proportion of longer term USPSA shooters in the B to A, or higher class range who are also using tuned race guns in major PF. Not that production does not have any experienced competitors.... but it does often have a broader field due to the low cost of entry.

Good advice from all, I really do appreciate it.

One reason I was leaving towards the Shadow was that it gives the option to run in production or limited. It's fairly simple to swap to single action only. Limited minor doesn't bother me, all my handguns/stored ammo/reloading setup are currently 9mm and at this time buying a .40 just to shoot major power factor doesn't really appeal to me. If I love the sport and it's all I want to do, I have no problem spending the cash to add equipment in the future.

Thanks for the help everyone. You've given me a lot of info and lots of things to consider that I hadn't thought of yet.

I think you are on the right track, and as mentioned, are coming out the gate with about the best production gun available. CZs seem to like OALs short, or at least that's what I've heard talking to reloaders who shoot them.

If you don't have a good belt rig yet, the stoeger pro shop sells the "BOSS hanger" which you can put a blade tech holster body on and it is really nice. The slickest production legal holster I've used is the ghost, but it was not comfortable for all-day use due to the 'pad' that projects into your upper thigh.

Ghost magazine pouches are pretty good though. Smooth, mount close together, and you can set them up parallel or perpendicular to the belt.

DAA makes a great belt system.

If you want to shoot multiple sports on the same belt, safariland's ELS belt and family of accessories is pretty slick.

Good luck- it's a great time. Glad you are getting in before the PCCs complete their takeover of the sport.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

CZs seem to like OALs short, or at least that's what I've heard talking to reloaders who shoot them.

This may be beyond the original scope/intent of this thread, but if the OP reloads for Glocks, which will function happily with ammunition that's somewhere on the same block of correct length and diameter, CZs may offer up an unpleasant surprise. CZ 9mm chambers, at least the two for which I reload, are far tighter than Glock, Sig, S&W, and other service-oriented pistols.

I quickly found that running each and every reloaded round through a case gage is required. I reload whatever range brass I can find (that isn't obviously beat up and or corroded); I never had problems with such reloads in service-pistol-type platforms.

The first time I ran my TSO in a match was with un-gaged rounds and I had several really hard-to-clear stuck cases. Fortunately, no out-of-battery discharges - the hammer wouldn't drop. Acquiring a Wilson gauge eliminated the problem, at the expense of time required. Typically, about 10% of my reloads won't drop cleanly into the gage. The out-of-spec rounds get dumped into a "Glock Only" bin. The CZs have functioned with 100% reliability with gaged rounds, and my Glocks/Sigs have also been 100% reliable with the oversized rounds (which are used only for practice).

 

[spaniel]

I'm not a competition pistol shooter, so I can't comment on classifications etc. But I have an original Shadow I made all the numerous improvements to in order to optimize the pistol. Honestly I don't know what class I could shoot it in. But it is the sweetest shooting pistol I own. I would recommend one for that reason alone. Mine avoids the whole firing pin stop issue, don't know if the Shadow 2 does that, but it's the same reason I build Series 70 1911s only.

 

[Rust]

When I used to shoot USPSA and found problems with feeding a tighter chamber, a fellow shooter (Master) said to drop in a Lee Factory Carbide Crimp Die in the last hole of my progressive press. Worked well enough I quite gauging rounds.

 

[PistoleroJesse]

If you want to compete in Production, simply don't fuck with the gun and shoot it as it came. A serious training regimen of dry and live fire drills will get you farther along than anything you can buy for the gun.

If you buy anything, buy Ben Stoeger's books.

Agreed. The best accessory to a gun in production is practice ammo.

 

[perttime]

....
I quickly found that running each and every reloaded round through a case gage is required. I reload whatever range brass I can find (that isn't obviously beat up and or corroded); I never had problems with such reloads in service-pistol-type platforms.
.....

For practice ammo, I just handle the rounds enough to see that there isn't anything obviously wrong. For a contest, every round that I take with me goes in to the chamber of my pistol before I pack it.

 

[WYO09]

This

 

[clcustom1911]

When I used to shoot USPSA and found problems with feeding a tighter chamber, a fellow shooter (Master) said to drop in a Lee Factory Carbide Crimp Die in the last hole of my progressive press. Worked well enough I quite gauging rounds.

I use that exact die as I my last step in my pistol loadings as well (9mm, 45acp). Great piece of equipment.

 

[Tx_Flyboy]

If you like the look of the CZ, I’d strongly encourage you to look at Tanfoglio Stock 3.

Get one done up by patriot defense. Their mods include teaming/polishing the chamber which eliminates the OAL issue with certain reloads.

If your hands are medium to large, you’ll like the grip better than in the shadow 2.

Otherwise I’d get the shadow 2.

 

[dc451718]

Looking for a new competition oriented full size 9mm. I'm a lifelong Glock owner but I've recently fallen in love with the full steel CZs. I'd like to get into USPSA eventually. I am currently doing all my practicing with a box stock G19 gen5. It's a fine firearm but it's not all that pleasing to shoot. It's also my primary carry/defensive firearm so I'd prefer not to modify it much. I really would like to add a full frame/range only handgun that I can change as I please and enjoy shooting a bit more.

Currently I'm looking at
CZ75 SP01 to shoot and modify as I see fit
OR
Lightly used or good deal on a new Shadow 2

I like the Shadow 2 frame better and it certainly comes with some nice features. I'd like to swap it to a flat trigger, add a flared magwell and shoot it to my heart's content.

The SP01 would likely get a few CGW upgrades, same magwell and grips.

Which would you choose? Save a bit longer for a Shadow 2 or buy an Sp01 immediately and start shooting/upgrading as I find necessary. I'm OK with buy once cry once if it's clearly the better option . Go easy on me if any of this came off as uneducated. I'm very new to the world of competition shooting.

Shadow 2

 

[northshorelumber]

Sp01 is the pistol I went with out of these choices, love it. Either Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom will provide you with top tier work. I have used both for different CZs and have been completely satisfied with their work.

 

[Nik H]

Looking for a new competition oriented full size 9mm. I'm a lifelong Glock owner but I've recently fallen in love with the full steel CZs. I'd like to get into USPSA eventually. I am currently doing all my practicing with a box stock G19 gen5. It's a fine firearm but it's not all that pleasing to shoot. It's also my primary carry/defensive firearm so I'd prefer not to modify it much. I really would like to add a full frame/range only handgun that I can change as I please and enjoy shooting a bit more.

Currently I'm looking at
CZ75 SP01 to shoot and modify as I see fit
OR
Lightly used or good deal on a new Shadow 2

I like the Shadow 2 frame better and it certainly comes with some nice features. I'd like to swap it to a flat trigger, add a flared magwell and shoot it to my heart's content.

The SP01 would likely get a few CGW upgrades, same magwell and grips.

Which would you choose? Save a bit longer for a Shadow 2 or buy an Sp01 immediately and start shooting/upgrading as I find necessary. I'm OK with buy once cry once if it's clearly the better option . Go easy on me if any of this came off as uneducated. I'm very new to the world of competition shooting.

CZ75 TS Czechmate or TS Orange

I own a Czechmate and it is better than the reviews. Finest out of the box pistolI have seen. Very $$$$$ though. The TS Orange is right therE as well for 60% of the cost.

 

[gearguywb]

As others have said, given your requirements, a Shadow II is the way to go. I put a Cajun trigger kit in mine and it certainly helped. You won't need to do anything else with it. Great Production gun.

If you wanted to fool around in Limited, shoot the same gun with full mags and start with it cocked and locked.

 

[fdkay]

I love me some CZ, i have a PO9 amd a PO7.
Don't forget to check out the EAA Witness line, they have competition ready models as well.
Just make sure that you look at the Tanfoglio made ones, not the SAR or Girsan made ones.
http://eaacorp.com/

 

[RG86]

Looking for a new competition oriented full size 9mm. I'm a lifelong Glock owner but I've recently fallen in love with the full steel CZs. I'd like to get into USPSA eventually. I am currently doing all my practicing with a box stock G19 gen5. It's a fine firearm but it's not all that pleasing to shoot. It's also my primary carry/defensive firearm so I'd prefer not to modify it much. I really would like to add a full frame/range only handgun that I can change as I please and enjoy shooting a bit more.

Currently I'm looking at
CZ75 SP01 to shoot and modify as I see fit
OR
Lightly used or good deal on a new Shadow 2

I like the Shadow 2 frame better and it certainly comes with some nice features. I'd like to swap it to a flat trigger, add a flared magwell and shoot it to my heart's content.

The SP01 would likely get a few CGW upgrades, same magwell and grips.

Which would you choose? Save a bit longer for a Shadow 2 or buy an Sp01 immediately and start shooting/upgrading as I find necessary. I'm OK with buy once cry once if it's clearly the better option . Go easy on me if any of this came off as uneducated. I'm very new to the world of competition shooting.

Both of those are great choices. Honestly flip a coin.

 

[MarinePMI]

Looking at the CZ website, I no longer see the TS, just the TSO. Is the TS not sold anymore? It is by far, my most favorite pistol, and pretty much hits whatever I point it at (which is saying a lot, since I suck as a pistol shooter).

 

[MarinePMI]

I sense a great disturbance in the force...as if a cherub cried out in anguish and suddenly...was silenced.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I sense a great disturbance in the force...as if a cherub cried out in anguish and suddenly...was silenced.

It looks like half the posts over the last two weeks disappeared with him. What did he finally do?

 

[MarinePMI]

Not entirely sure, but the ban hammer came down fo' sho....

 

[Aggie]

My CZ PO1 is a 120% keeper. It is extremely reliable and accurate. This is a pistol my kids will get one day.

 

[Screehopper]

Looking at the CZ website, I no longer see the TS, just the TSO. Is the TS not sold anymore? It is by far, my most favorite pistol, and pretty much hits whatever I point it at (which is saying a lot, since I suck as a pistol shooter).

The TS got discontinued in 2018.

StackPath

So if you want the TS, you better go pick one soon. They're still in some gun stores. There is a gun store near me that has 10 left in stock and another with 3-4 left.

 

[308pirate]

What did he finally do?

Posting while drunk on cheap Canadian hooch is my guess

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Posting while drunk on cheap Canadian hooch is my guess

Okay, what else did he do?

 

[W54/XM-388]

There was this insane stream of mindless hate speach from that special one.

 

[308pirate]

There was this insane stream of mindless hate speach from that special one.

That

 

[TonyTheTiger]

There was this insane stream of mindless hate speach from that special one.

Even more than he'd been doing for the last two weeks? I always miss out on the epic flameouts.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Yes, he just went on a hate filled rampage, got all racist with Veer & just went off his meds.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Cunts always get tossed out....in real world and interweb world .

No cunt is ever missed.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[MarinePMI]

The TS got discontinued in 2018.

StackPath

So if you want the TS, you better go pick one soon. They're still in some gun stores. There is a gun store near me that has 10 left in stock and another with 3-4 left.

I already have one, but thanks for the confirmation that they are no longer made.