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Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
From my limited perspective it was
1. Natural point of aim
2. Trigger control
3. Understanding the recoil impulse(s)
There is nothing that's radically different than a bolt gun but the gas guns will definitely expose any of the operators shortcomings on technique.
From my limited perspective it was
1. Natural point of aim
2. Trigger control
3. Understanding the recoil impulse(s)
There is nothing that's radically different than a bolt gun but the gas guns will definitely expose any of the operators shortcomings on technique.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
what i have found is that you will be disappointed if you think that you can get the same accuracy out of a ar vs. a bolt gun! so, accuracy will suffer. there may be different opinions on here, but in general i believe this to be correct! i have a wilson combat .223 w 20" match grade barrel & a armalite super sass in .308 when i bought them i thought that they might compete with bolt guns, but not the same. i love both rifles, but for long range not the same as a bolt. i am currently in middle of a build in .300 win mag. i am excited to shoot to 1000 and past once my rig is done.
what i have found is that you will be disappointed if you think that you can get the same accuracy out of a ar vs. a bolt gun! so, accuracy will suffer. there may be different opinions on here, but in general i believe this to be correct! i have a wilson combat .223 w 20" match grade barrel & a armalite super sass in .308 when i bought them i thought that they might compete with bolt guns, but not the same. i love both rifles, but for long range not the same as a bolt. i am currently in middle of a build in .300 win mag. i am excited to shoot to 1000 and past once my rig is done.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
The fundamentals are the same but there are differences in the recoil impulse and trigger control. It has been discussed at length. Use google to search sniper's hide and you will find what you are looking for. Frank and Jacob have done some videos as well. If the fundamentals are applied correctly then there isnt much to think about.
The fundamentals are the same but there are differences in the recoil impulse and trigger control. It has been discussed at length. Use google to search sniper's hide and you will find what you are looking for. Frank and Jacob have done some videos as well. If the fundamentals are applied correctly then there isnt much to think about.
M
mtscott
Guest
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Recoil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fundamentals are the same but there are differences in the recoil impulse and trigger control. It has been discussed at length. Use google to search sniper's hide and you will find what you are looking for. Frank and Jacob have done some videos as well. If the fundamentals are applied correctly then there isnt much to think about. </div></div>
I will look for the videos. I assumed it was mainly trigger and follow through due to the lock time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Recoil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fundamentals are the same but there are differences in the recoil impulse and trigger control. It has been discussed at length. Use google to search sniper's hide and you will find what you are looking for. Frank and Jacob have done some videos as well. If the fundamentals are applied correctly then there isnt much to think about. </div></div>
I will look for the videos. I assumed it was mainly trigger and follow through due to the lock time.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
No real difference, just that the gas gun is less forgiving. If your technique is great you'll shoot both fine. If it has some problems you will probably shoot a bolt gin better. If it plain sucks well you are in trouble either way.
If you find yourself shooting a bolt gun better than a gas gun look at follow through and trigger. Hold the trigger to the rear until the gun is done recoiling.
No real difference, just that the gas gun is less forgiving. If your technique is great you'll shoot both fine. If it has some problems you will probably shoot a bolt gin better. If it plain sucks well you are in trouble either way.
If you find yourself shooting a bolt gun better than a gas gun look at follow through and trigger. Hold the trigger to the rear until the gun is done recoiling.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
I used to be in agreement with lonmower's statement that gas guns are not as accurate as bolt rifles. If we're comparing AR's to benchrest rifles I would say this is still very much true, but if we're comparing any of the AR's that are being used in the tactical long range matches than I think there is very little difference on the accuracy issue. Certainly not enough to make a huge difference in scores. For example, my old Noveske built AR-10 in .308 Win would hold 1/2 moa with just about anything you fed it, and would hold moa out to 1000 yards with match ammo. My buddies new GAP built AR in 6mm Creedmoore is wicked accurate and is at least a 1/2 moa rifle past 300 yards! The last match I went to had several guys running LaRue 18" OBR's and they were doing quite well with them.
When it comes to driving a gas-gun I have found that the fundamentals are critical. Bolt rifles tend to be more forgiving, and having some flaws in your fundamentals probably won't be as apparent when shooting the bolt gun. I have had to modify my grip on the rifle to more of a pinch between the first pad of my trigger finger and the first knuckle of my thumb, and pay special attention to keeping the trigger dressed well through the recoil impulse when I'm driving the gas-gun. Squeezing the trigger directly to the rear of the rifle and applying pressure on the trigger that is perfectly centerline of the bore axis as well as keeping that trigger to the rear after the rifle has discharged and the bolt has cycled were the two items I had to work on the most. I also find myself floating my trigger hand almost completely off the pistol grip. I really had to get myself directly inline behind the rifle, so that the recoil impulse was driving straight back in line with my spine when lying prone. For me, these were the issues that helped with accuracy at distance. The recoil impulse on the gas-gun is definitely different, and you will probably have to modify some of things you are doing to better suit the unique properties associated with the gas-gun.
As mentioned above, look for any of the info that Jacob has put out as part of the Rifles Only/ Sniper Hide video instruction series. If you can, book a class at Rifles Only, you will come out of it shooting exponentially better!
I used to be in agreement with lonmower's statement that gas guns are not as accurate as bolt rifles. If we're comparing AR's to benchrest rifles I would say this is still very much true, but if we're comparing any of the AR's that are being used in the tactical long range matches than I think there is very little difference on the accuracy issue. Certainly not enough to make a huge difference in scores. For example, my old Noveske built AR-10 in .308 Win would hold 1/2 moa with just about anything you fed it, and would hold moa out to 1000 yards with match ammo. My buddies new GAP built AR in 6mm Creedmoore is wicked accurate and is at least a 1/2 moa rifle past 300 yards! The last match I went to had several guys running LaRue 18" OBR's and they were doing quite well with them.
When it comes to driving a gas-gun I have found that the fundamentals are critical. Bolt rifles tend to be more forgiving, and having some flaws in your fundamentals probably won't be as apparent when shooting the bolt gun. I have had to modify my grip on the rifle to more of a pinch between the first pad of my trigger finger and the first knuckle of my thumb, and pay special attention to keeping the trigger dressed well through the recoil impulse when I'm driving the gas-gun. Squeezing the trigger directly to the rear of the rifle and applying pressure on the trigger that is perfectly centerline of the bore axis as well as keeping that trigger to the rear after the rifle has discharged and the bolt has cycled were the two items I had to work on the most. I also find myself floating my trigger hand almost completely off the pistol grip. I really had to get myself directly inline behind the rifle, so that the recoil impulse was driving straight back in line with my spine when lying prone. For me, these were the issues that helped with accuracy at distance. The recoil impulse on the gas-gun is definitely different, and you will probably have to modify some of things you are doing to better suit the unique properties associated with the gas-gun.
As mentioned above, look for any of the info that Jacob has put out as part of the Rifles Only/ Sniper Hide video instruction series. If you can, book a class at Rifles Only, you will come out of it shooting exponentially better!
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
Like any other rifle, it does not care what preconceived notions one has about what they 'think' it may be able to do.
Apply the fundamentals to the tenth power and your round will find home. My 1022 dumped 4 chucks from 145 yrd to 225 yrd last weekend and my grendel another 3 from 370 out to 510. Not one from prone.
Prone the grendel is insanely accurate inherently. Kept targets, I have done 5/8 inch 5 shot at 400.
It will also print round for round dead on top of my Whidden 308 on the dot drill, clean.
Do your part they do theirs.
They work just fine.
Like any other rifle, it does not care what preconceived notions one has about what they 'think' it may be able to do.
Apply the fundamentals to the tenth power and your round will find home. My 1022 dumped 4 chucks from 145 yrd to 225 yrd last weekend and my grendel another 3 from 370 out to 510. Not one from prone.
Prone the grendel is insanely accurate inherently. Kept targets, I have done 5/8 inch 5 shot at 400.
It will also print round for round dead on top of my Whidden 308 on the dot drill, clean.
Do your part they do theirs.
They work just fine.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
thx tman300wm for the mention, but still think bolt guns are inherently more accurate. however, u guys mention some fine ar's in previous posts!
thx tman300wm for the mention, but still think bolt guns are inherently more accurate. however, u guys mention some fine ar's in previous posts!
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
Years ago I was a law enforcement firearms instructor. Everyone talks about sight alignment, and trigger control, and it took me a long time before I realized that most instructors missed a critical piece of the puzzle. Showing someone how to align sights (or use a scope) and how to pull a trigger isn't all that difficult. Eventually, I realized what other instructors were failing to tell newbie students. It is a different way of explaining follow through.
If I told students that they had to maintain proper sight alignment, and control both forward and rearward movement of the trigger so that they NEVER disturb the sight alignment until AFTER recoil has ended and they can reset the trigger, that they began to shoot semi-autos better.
It seems that combining sight alignment and trigger control (not just trigger pull) was the key to shooting semi-autos well for me.
With a bolt gun, the trigger reset technique isn't an issue as you have to operate the bolt. Many people seem to think that only rearward movement of the trigger is important on a semi-auto. Precision semi-autos require a great deal more concentration and technique on how the trigger is manipulated in both directions.
Years ago I was a law enforcement firearms instructor. Everyone talks about sight alignment, and trigger control, and it took me a long time before I realized that most instructors missed a critical piece of the puzzle. Showing someone how to align sights (or use a scope) and how to pull a trigger isn't all that difficult. Eventually, I realized what other instructors were failing to tell newbie students. It is a different way of explaining follow through.
If I told students that they had to maintain proper sight alignment, and control both forward and rearward movement of the trigger so that they NEVER disturb the sight alignment until AFTER recoil has ended and they can reset the trigger, that they began to shoot semi-autos better.
It seems that combining sight alignment and trigger control (not just trigger pull) was the key to shooting semi-autos well for me.
With a bolt gun, the trigger reset technique isn't an issue as you have to operate the bolt. Many people seem to think that only rearward movement of the trigger is important on a semi-auto. Precision semi-autos require a great deal more concentration and technique on how the trigger is manipulated in both directions.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
most people will tell u that a bolt gun is superior to a gas gun in accuracy!!
most people will tell u that a bolt gun is superior to a gas gun in accuracy!!
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
FWIW:
I shoot gas guns better.
Ergonomics (for me) are better = better natural point of aim.
Least that is my guess.
BMT
FWIW:
I shoot gas guns better.
Ergonomics (for me) are better = better natural point of aim.
Least that is my guess.
BMT
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
I was watching Magpul's Art of Precision Rifle and Todd Hodnett was telling the guys that when shooting an OBR you can shoot it like normal. But when shooting some other AR platforms you need to setup slightly tilted then torque the grip in to level it out. This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun.
I was watching Magpul's Art of Precision Rifle and Todd Hodnett was telling the guys that when shooting an OBR you can shoot it like normal. But when shooting some other AR platforms you need to setup slightly tilted then torque the grip in to level it out. This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun.</div></div>
Sounds like a biased plug for Larue. My GAP-10 is so tight you have to beat the rear takedown pin out with a hammer. I'm not knocking the OBR, but Larue is not the only one that can build a tight tolerance gun.
Beside that, I'm thinking the technique he's talking about would just help take up the wiggle between the upper and lower receiver and I personally don't think that matters much, even though there are so many posts on here about upper to lower receiver fit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun.</div></div>
Sounds like a biased plug for Larue. My GAP-10 is so tight you have to beat the rear takedown pin out with a hammer. I'm not knocking the OBR, but Larue is not the only one that can build a tight tolerance gun.
Beside that, I'm thinking the technique he's talking about would just help take up the wiggle between the upper and lower receiver and I personally don't think that matters much, even though there are so many posts on here about upper to lower receiver fit.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
I'm really new to rifle shooting but I shot a Barrett semi auto last night then shot a LAR T50 and the bolt gun was much easier to handle. The recoil impulse and torque of the Barrett seems like it would be much harder to learn on. If I wereto start shooting seriously I'd start with a bolt gun to learn the basics on.
Jeremy45
I'm really new to rifle shooting but I shot a Barrett semi auto last night then shot a LAR T50 and the bolt gun was much easier to handle. The recoil impulse and torque of the Barrett seems like it would be much harder to learn on. If I wereto start shooting seriously I'd start with a bolt gun to learn the basics on.
Jeremy45
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As mentioned above, look for any of the info that Jacob has put out as part of the Rifles Only/ Sniper Hide video instruction series. If you can, book a class at Rifles Only, you will come out of it shooting exponentially better!
</div></div>
As was already posted, there is a little differents in the two. The gas gun will have at least two or three different impulses that you will have to deal with. Of course with a 308 gas gun you will have a little more verses the AR in 223.
If you sign up for the on-line training (worth the money) you will fine a good video that explains how to run your gas gun.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As mentioned above, look for any of the info that Jacob has put out as part of the Rifles Only/ Sniper Hide video instruction series. If you can, book a class at Rifles Only, you will come out of it shooting exponentially better!
</div></div>
As was already posted, there is a little differents in the two. The gas gun will have at least two or three different impulses that you will have to deal with. Of course with a 308 gas gun you will have a little more verses the AR in 223.
If you sign up for the on-line training (worth the money) you will fine a good video that explains how to run your gas gun.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun.</div></div>
My GAP-10 is so tight you have to beat the rear takedown pin out with a hammer. </div></div>
I too have to drift my rear pin out of my GAP-10..no surprise she is a hammer....
Im sure Larue makes a Tight product as well.. id love to find out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun.</div></div>
My GAP-10 is so tight you have to beat the rear takedown pin out with a hammer. </div></div>
I too have to drift my rear pin out of my GAP-10..no surprise she is a hammer....
Im sure Larue makes a Tight product as well.. id love to find out.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
after you get out past approximately 600yd (with typical ar10), the bolt gun will outshine the gas gun. it really shows in your dope! the MOA differences really start to show!! i know this, because i started with gas guns after reading numerous articles about how new gas guns are as accurate as their counterpart. i was disappointed. still love my gas guns, but for long distance precision shooting a bolt gun will always be my choice!!!
after you get out past approximately 600yd (with typical ar10), the bolt gun will outshine the gas gun. it really shows in your dope! the MOA differences really start to show!! i know this, because i started with gas guns after reading numerous articles about how new gas guns are as accurate as their counterpart. i was disappointed. still love my gas guns, but for long distance precision shooting a bolt gun will always be my choice!!!
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to be in agreement with lonmower's statement that gas guns are not as accurate as bolt rifles. If we're comparing AR's to benchrest rifles I would say this is still very much true, but if we're comparing any of the AR's that are being used in the tactical long range matches than I think there is very little difference on the accuracy issue. Certainly not enough to make a huge difference in scores. For example, my old Noveske built AR-10 in .308 Win would hold 1/2 moa with just about anything you fed it, and would hold moa out to 1000 yards with match ammo. My buddies new GAP built AR in 6mm Creedmoore is wicked accurate and is at least a 1/2 moa rifle past 300 yards! The last match I went to had several guys running LaRue 18" OBR's and they were doing quite well with them.
When it comes to driving a gas-gun I have found that the fundamentals are critical. Bolt rifles tend to be more forgiving, and having some flaws in your fundamentals probably won't be as apparent when shooting the bolt gun. I have had to modify my grip on the rifle to more of a pinch between the first pad of my trigger finger and the first knuckle of my thumb, and pay special attention to keeping the trigger dressed well through the recoil impulse when I'm driving the gas-gun. Squeezing the trigger directly to the rear of the rifle and applying pressure on the trigger that is perfectly centerline of the bore axis as well as keeping that trigger to the rear after the rifle has discharged and the bolt has cycled were the two items I had to work on the most. I also find myself floating my trigger hand almost completely off the pistol grip. I really had to get myself directly inline behind the rifle, so that the recoil impulse was driving straight back in line with my spine when lying prone. For me, these were the issues that helped with accuracy at distance. The recoil impulse on the gas-gun is definitely different, and you will probably have to modify some of things you are doing to better suit the unique properties associated with the gas-gun.
As mentioned above, look for any of the info that Jacob has put out as part of the Rifles Only/ Sniper Hide video instruction series. If you can, book a class at Rifles Only, you will come out of it shooting exponentially better!
</div></div>
This is a good explanation. I signed up for the online training and this post "sums up" the information that is in there concerning shooting a gas gun. It has been well worth the cost for me. It has helped me be more consistent with my GAP-10. If I could just shoot 3/16" every time...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tman300wm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used to be in agreement with lonmower's statement that gas guns are not as accurate as bolt rifles. If we're comparing AR's to benchrest rifles I would say this is still very much true, but if we're comparing any of the AR's that are being used in the tactical long range matches than I think there is very little difference on the accuracy issue. Certainly not enough to make a huge difference in scores. For example, my old Noveske built AR-10 in .308 Win would hold 1/2 moa with just about anything you fed it, and would hold moa out to 1000 yards with match ammo. My buddies new GAP built AR in 6mm Creedmoore is wicked accurate and is at least a 1/2 moa rifle past 300 yards! The last match I went to had several guys running LaRue 18" OBR's and they were doing quite well with them.
When it comes to driving a gas-gun I have found that the fundamentals are critical. Bolt rifles tend to be more forgiving, and having some flaws in your fundamentals probably won't be as apparent when shooting the bolt gun. I have had to modify my grip on the rifle to more of a pinch between the first pad of my trigger finger and the first knuckle of my thumb, and pay special attention to keeping the trigger dressed well through the recoil impulse when I'm driving the gas-gun. Squeezing the trigger directly to the rear of the rifle and applying pressure on the trigger that is perfectly centerline of the bore axis as well as keeping that trigger to the rear after the rifle has discharged and the bolt has cycled were the two items I had to work on the most. I also find myself floating my trigger hand almost completely off the pistol grip. I really had to get myself directly inline behind the rifle, so that the recoil impulse was driving straight back in line with my spine when lying prone. For me, these were the issues that helped with accuracy at distance. The recoil impulse on the gas-gun is definitely different, and you will probably have to modify some of things you are doing to better suit the unique properties associated with the gas-gun.
As mentioned above, look for any of the info that Jacob has put out as part of the Rifles Only/ Sniper Hide video instruction series. If you can, book a class at Rifles Only, you will come out of it shooting exponentially better!
</div></div>
This is a good explanation. I signed up for the online training and this post "sums up" the information that is in there concerning shooting a gas gun. It has been well worth the cost for me. It has helped me be more consistent with my GAP-10. If I could just shoot 3/16" every time...
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will lose MOA just from energy to cycle ur action.</div></div>
We get it, you've proven you can't handle a gas gun...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will lose MOA just from energy to cycle ur action.</div></div>
We get it, you've proven you can't handle a gas gun...
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will lose MOA just from energy to cycle ur action.</div></div>
We get it, you've proven you can't handle a gas gun...</div></div>
+1!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will lose MOA just from energy to cycle ur action.</div></div>
We get it, you've proven you can't handle a gas gun...</div></div>
+1!
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
Almost all of my precision experience is with a gas gun. What I have noticed with the gas gun was I needed to have a little firmer grip and more finger on the trigger. Also if you are shooting groups you will want to have at least one more round in the magazine than the number of rounds for your group. That last round the bolt will lock back and and the recoil/cycle will be different.
Almost all of my precision experience is with a gas gun. What I have noticed with the gas gun was I needed to have a little firmer grip and more finger on the trigger. Also if you are shooting groups you will want to have at least one more round in the magazine than the number of rounds for your group. That last round the bolt will lock back and and the recoil/cycle will be different.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
When you sort through all of the (good) advice here one small thing is missing...ammunition. A gasser requires a level of consistency that most shooters will never develop without a whole LOT of ammunition, to the tune of thousands of rounds. You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good.
When you sort through all of the (good) advice here one small thing is missing...ammunition. A gasser requires a level of consistency that most shooters will never develop without a whole LOT of ammunition, to the tune of thousands of rounds. You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this. </div></div>
Agree...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this. </div></div>
Agree...
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
Had a box stock rem. r5 mil spec and have an LMT308mwse, as long as I stick with solid fundamentals....shoot both the same ( 1/2 to 3/4 MOA with hand loads). LMT IS MORE FUN IN MY OPINION.
Had a box stock rem. r5 mil spec and have an LMT308mwse, as long as I stick with solid fundamentals....shoot both the same ( 1/2 to 3/4 MOA with hand loads). LMT IS MORE FUN IN MY OPINION.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
I think that with the guns of today they are both extremely accurate. You just need to pick one you are comfortable with and shoot it a lot.
I think that with the guns of today they are both extremely accurate. You just need to pick one you are comfortable with and shoot it a lot.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that with the guns of today they are both extremely accurate. You just need to pick one you are comfortable with and shoot it a lot.</div></div>
well said captrob shoot, shoot, shoot,and then shoot somemore
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that with the guns of today they are both extremely accurate. You just need to pick one you are comfortable with and shoot it a lot.</div></div>
well said captrob shoot, shoot, shoot,and then shoot somemore
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
I like bolts my self. allways have. But I witnessed a BR match where a local was shooting a les baer 6.5 and smoke alot of guys. He was holding 1/2 MOA. 600yds
I like bolts my self. allways have. But I witnessed a BR match where a local was shooting a les baer 6.5 and smoke alot of guys. He was holding 1/2 MOA. 600yds
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmphk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this. </div></div>
Agree... </div></div>
Very good advise. I wonder how many people have EVER won out a barrel (especially on a 223/308) I bet many have not. I got hit hard with barrel replacements this year. Its like every gun I shoot regularly just shit the bed all at the same time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmphk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this. </div></div>
Agree... </div></div>
Very good advise. I wonder how many people have EVER won out a barrel (especially on a 223/308) I bet many have not. I got hit hard with barrel replacements this year. Its like every gun I shoot regularly just shit the bed all at the same time.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RufDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmphk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this. </div></div>
Agree... </div></div>
Very good advise. I wonder how many people have EVER won out a barrel (especially on a 223/308) I bet many have not. I got hit hard with barrel replacements this year. Its like every gun I shoot regularly just shit the bed all at the same time. </div></div>
If a person hasn't gotten pretty good BEFORE they wear out a barrel, perhaps shooting isn't their cup o' tea or they need to get training somewhere.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RufDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmphk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have to be able to admit that you suck and shoot it a little more. When you wear out a barrel you're probably gettin pretty good. </div></div>
This! More people need to do exactly this. </div></div>
Agree... </div></div>
Very good advise. I wonder how many people have EVER won out a barrel (especially on a 223/308) I bet many have not. I got hit hard with barrel replacements this year. Its like every gun I shoot regularly just shit the bed all at the same time. </div></div>
If a person hasn't gotten pretty good BEFORE they wear out a barrel, perhaps shooting isn't their cup o' tea or they need to get training somewhere.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
Gas guns are less forgiving with recoil impulse, plus they are tougher on your brass. Depending on the platform, they can give you 1/2 moa accuracy and are good out to 800 yards. I'm sure some would argue further.
The only reason I still shot a bolt gun is for the magnum calibers out pass 1000 yards, and because I reload for my short-action calibers.
Gas guns are less forgiving with recoil impulse, plus they are tougher on your brass. Depending on the platform, they can give you 1/2 moa accuracy and are good out to 800 yards. I'm sure some would argue further.
The only reason I still shot a bolt gun is for the magnum calibers out pass 1000 yards, and because I reload for my short-action calibers.
Re: Driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun
Hmmmm.... The question was: What are the key differences between driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was watching Magpul's Art of Precision Rifle and Todd Hodnett was telling the guys that when shooting an OBR you can shoot it like normal. But when shooting some other AR platforms you need to setup slightly tilted then torque the grip in to level it out. This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot gas guns better.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">after you get out past approximately 600yd (with typical ar10), the bolt gun will outshine the gas gun. it really shows in your dope! the MOA differences really start to show!! </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will lose MOA just from energy to cycle ur action. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I have noticed with the gas gun was I needed to have a little firmer grip and more finger on the trigger.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i love my gas guns!! </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just need to pick one you are comfortable with and shoot it a lot. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i go gas & then bolt! enjoy both!! i think bolt has edge. </div></div>
Hmmmm.... The question was: What are the key differences between driving a gas gun vs a bolt gun?<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outlaw45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was watching Magpul's Art of Precision Rifle and Todd Hodnett was telling the guys that when shooting an OBR you can shoot it like normal. But when shooting some other AR platforms you need to setup slightly tilted then torque the grip in to level it out. This would tighten the tolernaces of the gun. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bmt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot gas guns better.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">after you get out past approximately 600yd (with typical ar10), the bolt gun will outshine the gas gun. it really shows in your dope! the MOA differences really start to show!! </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you will lose MOA just from energy to cycle ur action. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I have noticed with the gas gun was I needed to have a little firmer grip and more finger on the trigger.</div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i love my gas guns!! </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CaptRob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You just need to pick one you are comfortable with and shoot it a lot. </div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lonmower</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i go gas & then bolt! enjoy both!! i think bolt has edge. </div></div>
