Sidearms & Scatterguns Dropping the Slide... Flipping the cylinder

[hermosabeach]

 

[Fig]

I have a lot of really nice Colt pistols (my Dad was a collector). The way I'll treat a Glock/plastic fantastic and the way I treat a Gold Cup, Python, a TRM, or any tuned, target pistol is very different.

 

[jbuck88]

Only takes one smack from grandpa to learn that one.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

If I'm shooting a gun on a regular basis it is a tool. National Match AR's, 1911 Service Pistol, M-9 etc.. My Garand gets treated better, no rain, clean and lube more often. Not that some guns demand less respect but either it is a safe queen or a tool.

I must be the guy that makes other guns worth more.

 

[Fig]

That’s like saying a Ferrari and an F-150 are both vehicles. Not incorrect, but utterly fails to convey reality. Some are tools, some are works of art. The only firearms I don’t shoot have never had one down the pipe outside the factory. The reset get shot, including Gen 1 SAA.

 

[Unknown]

Apparently I was wrong to think that only idiots did things like they were talking about. I am both surprised and disappointed that those practices seem to be so common. Not dropping a slide on an empty autoloader, or flipping the cylinder on a revolver were some of the first things I was taught when I started learning about firearms....those were right up there with the four primary safety rules.

I agree with their assessment that when they see people doing some of those things my first thought is "amateur", rather than professional, knowledgeable or cool. Those are some of the reasons I don't like other people handling my firearms.

I feel the same way about letting the bolt/bolt carrier of an autoloading rifle fly forward on an empty chamber as I do with a pistol....they aren't designed for that.

 

[swage2712]

Best way to bend an ejector rod is to cowboy the cylinder shut. I didn't think people really did that.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Other than the 1911/2011, what handgun has a problem with crashing the sear when dropping the slide on an empty chamber? My race gun probably has 40k slide cycles, half of which are on an empty chamber.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Apparently I was wrong to think that only idiots did things like they were talking about. I am both surprised and disappointed that those practices seem to be so common. Not dropping a slide on an empty autoloader, or flipping the cylinder on a revolver were some of the first things I was taught when I started learning about firearms....those were right up there with the four primary safety rules.

I agree with their assessment that when they see people doing some of those things my first thought is "amateur", rather than professional, knowledgeable or cool. Those are some of the reasons I don't like other people handling my firearms.

I feel the same way about letting the bolt/bolt carrier of an autoloading rifle fly forward on an empty chamber as I do with a pistol....they aren't designed for that.

I hate to disappoint you further but no one that I know views firearms the way you do; competitors or professionals alike. When you start seriously training with pistols that soft handling stuff goes right out the window. Dry fire practice for an hour every night and 1500 rounds of practice ammo per month, there just isn't time to care about gently lowering the slide on an empty chamber.

 

[Unknown]

Cascade,
Feel free to do whatever you want with your equipment, after all it is yours. I did lots of International 3 gun shooting for over 20 years, and did plenty of dry firing, so I am familiar with dry firing, and other exercises with empty weapons, or weapons with dummy rounds in them. I found it easier on my gear to just cock the hammer, or to just pull the slide back a little bit for dry fire practice . Stuff wears out fast enough without me helping it along with abuse..ask me how I know... I'm plenty hard on gear, racking slides on the sides of barricades, mortaring stuck rounds out and generally beating the living hell out of stuff. But dropping empty actions forward, and cylinder flipping was something I learned to avoid. Stuff breaks and wears out fast enough without me doing things that I know will wear them out even faster. Feel free to abuse your stuff though...after all, it is yours.

Bill Wilson has probably forgotten more than I will ever know about pistols, so I won't question his wisdom. Everyone else is free to do so if they choose.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Cascade,
Feel free to do whatever you want with your equipment, after all it is yours. I did lots of International 3 gun shooting for over 20 years, and did plenty of dry firing, so I am familiar with dry firing, and other exercises with empty weapons, or weapons with dummy rounds in them. I found it easier on my gear to just cock the hammer, or to just pull the slide back a little bit for dry fire practice . Stuff wears out fast enough without me helping it along with abuse..ask me how I know... I'm plenty hard on gear, racking slides on the sides of barricades, mortaring stuck rounds out and generally beating the living hell out of stuff. But dropping empty actions forward, and cylinder flipping was something I learned to avoid. Stuff breaks and wears out fast enough without me doing things that I know will wear them out even faster. Feel free to abuse your stuff though...after all, it is yours.

Bill Wilson has probably forgotten more than I will ever know about pistols, so I won't question his wisdom. Everyone else is free to do so if they choose.

Other than crashing the sear on a 1911/2011, what breaks prematurely from dropping the slide on an empty chamber? My current practice pistol has 20k rounds through it in 18 months. I took a class with Stoeger last year and his, at the time, training gun had 100K rounds through it. I track round counts and replacement parts and I don't have any premature failures of slides, frames, or barrels. I shot three gun for a while and my AR has about 15K rounds through it. Absolutely zero attention is paid to soft handling actions. Further, in all my time in the military not one single person ever cautioned dropping the BCG on an empty chamber. In fact, current training is the exact opposite.

What exactly do you consider premature? 50k? 100k?

 

[260shooter]

Dropping the slide on a empty chamber on a 1911 is fine if it is yours . But I don't spend money to have a well tuned trigger and then f**k it up by dropping the slide on a empty chamber and screwing up the trigger and sear surfaces. Do it on your plastic pistol all day long, who cares. Parts are slapped in and a new trigger cost 50 bucks.

 

[akh223]

Yeah, a $3,000+ wilson combat, and a $499 Glock are two different beasts when it comes to how I treat them.

 

[Unknown]

Other than crashing the sear on a 1911/2011, what breaks prematurely from dropping the slide on an empty chamber? My current practice pistol has 20k rounds through it in 18 months. I took a class with Stoeger last year and his, at the time, training gun had 100K rounds through it. I track round counts and replacement parts and I don't have any premature failures of slides, frames, or barrels. I shot three gun for a while and my AR has about 15K rounds through it. Absolutely zero attention is paid to soft handling actions. Further, in all my time in the military not one single person ever cautioned dropping the BCG on an empty chamber. In fact, current training is the exact opposite.

What exactly do you consider premature? 50k? 100k?

Unnecessarily crashing the sear early would qualify as premature. That is enough for me. I'm a fairly cheap bastard, and if I can avoid having to buy new parts, or send a gun in for repairs that can otherwise be avoided, I will do so. Like I said, you are free to do whatever you want with your guns, that is the nice thing about owning them as you can do whatever you want with them. I try and make guns and parts last as long as possible...but that is just me.

As Mr. Wilson says in the video, dropping the slide on an empty gun not only buggers the sear and ruins a nice trigger pull, it can also screw up the lugs that lock pistols up and degrade accuracy, and/or cause premature and unnecessary wear.

How I care for my gear is my choice, and I bear the responsibility for those choices. Everyone else is free to do the same thing. I really don't care if anyone else buggers up their gear or cares for it over much.

ETA: I would be interested in the opinions of some high end pistol builders such as Dave Berryhill, Ed Brown, Jim Hoag, Richard Heine, Wayne Novak, Les Baer, Bill Laughridge, Nighthawk, and getting their opinion if they disagree with Mr. Wilson's input.