DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

#52
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

"I mean the thing doesn't even have a place to attach a carrying strap for crying out loud, let alone a shooting sling. Are you supposed to be super tacticool and completely disassemble your rifle after every firing position? I guy I know had one and he said he had to rezero every time he shot it because disassembly caused a 1-2MOA POI shift every time. It wasn't becase he was using cheap mounts either because he was using a NF with NF hardware.
"

I guess your new to following the Nemesis Arms guys. They do have sling mounts, and Mine you could and did shoot many five shot .5" groups @ 100 yards taking the barrel off and replacing it 5 times. Sometimes you just gotta eat crow my friend, and give credit where credit is due. You don't have to like it or own it.


Ch
 
#53
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Talk about Hollywood. How does al that plastic work out for you. I think Toys r Us fits your equipment a little better.
Our rifle can shoot from every and any position. Did you take a look at the system below, mount what you want. You can't shoot accurately with your DTA left handed without lifting your head to cycle it. This means in a Real World Sniping, that you remove view from your target or the movement of the target after firing. Can you say VERY BAD.

Last, How does the Plastic DTA milk crate pistol grip and chassis hold up on a drop test? What do you do when the DTA plastic pistol grip breaks or pops a screw in field?

Wish you had a Nemesis Arms Vanquish!!!
 
#54
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk about Hollywood. How does al that plastic work out for you. I think Toys r Us fits your equipment a little better.
Our rifle can shoot from every and any position. Did you take a look at the system below, mount what you want. You can't shoot accurately with your DTA left handed without lifting your head to cycle it. This means in a Real World Sniping, that you remove view from your target or the movement of the target after firing. Can you say VERY BAD.

Last, How does the Plastic DTA milk crate pistol grip and chassis hold up on a drop test? What do you do when the DTA plastic pistol grip breaks or pops a screw in field?

Wish you had a Nemesis Arms Vanquish!!!



</div></div>

Damn you are not doing your company any favors at all.
 
#56
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk about Hollywood. How does al that plastic work out for you. I think Toys r Us fits your equipment a little better.
Our rifle can shoot from every and any position. Did you take a look at the system below, mount what you want. You can't shoot accurately with your DTA left handed without lifting your head to cycle it. This means in a Real World Sniping, that you remove view from your target or the movement of the target after firing. Can you say VERY BAD.

Last, How does the Plastic DTA milk crate pistol grip and chassis hold up on a drop test? What do you do when the DTA plastic pistol grip breaks or pops a screw in field?

Wish you had a Nemesis Arms Vanquish!!!

</div></div>

LOL

Really, breaks, or pops a screw... honestly have you ever used polymer ?

I have yet to see these things break, not from Accuracy International, not from DTA... Not to mention I know people who ARE left handed that shoot a DTA very well, it's called practice. Shooting left handed isn't a trick or something, doing it is fairly easy you just have to try and I think they even have a video of it out there.

Sorry to tell you Nemesis the DTA works exactly as advertised, is very durable, and trust me I beat the snot out of their rifle, and the "skins' are as durable as it gets. No chance in you breaking a grip, in fact I bet yours goes before a skin grip goes. I

The DTA might not be for everyone but it works... guessing it doesn't and writing that on the internet can't change facts.
 
#57
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes DTA rifles and accessories are made in the USA, by american workers, etc, etc...
laugh.gif


</div></div>

...and I'm a happy DTA owner for the past 15 days!! I love my American made DTA. Great job guys!
wink.gif
 
#59
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

I did not guess. I asked question. It seem that if its asked about DTA that is off limits, but saying that the Nemesis Arms Vanquish, is simply a "Hollywood Gun", or a "Fireplace Piece" is ok here. The people making the comments have not shot a Nemesis Vanquish, but think they can, as you put it, from the safety of the internet.

Also, I'll take that bet. Nemesis makes there parts out of "Metal", I've never seen a Milk Crate take more than Metal.

The Snipers, that we associate with in Mil & L/E share the same thoughts, you don't lift your head when shooting a target or multiple.

The DTA folks said they can break theirs down faster, well I guess Nemesis Arms proved that wrong also. All I have say is, Next.

Not any one rifle is built to do everything. Not everyone is going purchase one model rifle either. They simply should not throw stones from a glass house.

Admire what you have or want, not put everything else down. Nemesis Arms has simply defended itself, even on threads started by those who ask questions with genuine interest, only to be spoken of poorly by those who have no experience with the equipment.

I thought the firearms community would stick together not attack one another. Their is room for all in the community unless I misunderstood that to.
 
#60
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Alright, I have a DTA. I love it. As for the plastic breaking, I think the folks that watched me huck mine through the concrete culvert at the Bash would tell you that it is plenty sturdy enough. My favorite thing about shooting the DTA is how well it does positional shooting. With all the wieght balanced in the middle and back, you don't have to fight it so much to keep it on target. No doubt the Nemesis would allow for easier shots left handed, but while shooting the DTA left handed is a little tricky, it is doable. I also really like how compact the DTA is when you are shooting it.
 
#61
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

It seems that we are forgetting about real world experience....
I am not defending either side.....
I would like to know the real world advantages and scenarios.

For instance. No one is going to ride a crouch rocket motorcycle with a back pack with a nemesis in it only... Just so on the hopes he can run up stairs and shoot some one.....Do you really think that is a real world scenario......

2nd... Give me a real world scenario that some one is going to go from a Short Action caliber to another Short action caliber, and need to do it fast... If you already are shooting a short action caliber why would you even think about going to another one... ( Oh I am shooting a 6.5 Rem, i see a bad guy let me change to a 308 to shoot him LOL.... I do not think so), but if you had a 308 and all of a sudden you are in afgan,,, And you see a fire fight break out on the other side of town. well then you change barrel for 338 LM and assist your buddies. Nemesis can not do that..

3rd Who ever cared about carrying a rifle in a brief case except maybe 007.

You guys are splitting hairs on scenarios that will never happen.

Both guns shoot....
Both guns are compact to a useful degree ( real world )
Both guns can change calibers in a useful manner ( DTA actually can change performance in caliber selected ) ie. 308 to 300 win or 338LM...
With the improvement of Nemesis front tube < both can run inline Night Vision.
It seems to me that the left handed argument does not apply to me *** because I shoot right handed.
I can shoot a dta with out moving my head. I can also do that with nemesis.

THE ONLY TRUE ADVANTAGE I SEE IS IN THE MULTI CALIBER SELECTION...... WHICH GOES TO THE ......DTA B/C IT CAN CHANGE INT ANY SHORT ACTION PLUS LONG ACTION PPLUS LAPUA MAG ACTION....

If you want novelty the Nemesis Is pretty cool.......
 
#62
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

A mini windrunner by any other name is still a Windrunner.

the issue is, while you are coming on here trying to defend your Nemesis, or at least promote it over the DTA, your attacks on the DTA actually make you look pretty bad, sort of petty. <span style="font-style: italic">(no offense, just calling it as I see it)</span>

I have time behind a windrunner, in fact a long time ago was out in CA at USO shooting one and it had a design flaw, the stock was capable of collapsing which one did on me and the guys from USO marched me to EDM to show them. They fixed the flaw and now there are two notches in the stock not just one. Getting smacked in the head with a .50 cal is never any fun but thankfully the problem was solved.

As others have mentioned, a better measure of a switch caliber capable rifle is going from .30 cal to .338 caliber in the same platform. This the DTA does, your Nemesis doesn't, that sort of trumps the whole left handed thing and then some. Consider a department on a limited budget, they now have a long and short action in a single platform. Having trained hundreds, if not more, I can tell you left to their own devices, 99% of the shooters out there who are right handed will opt to never shoot left handed. You usually have to force them, and even then, it's a crap shoot. Lifting their heads is a very minor issue, and to add to that, you don't have to lift your head to shoot it, though some clearly do, it's not a requirement. I am sure you'll continue to leave out this fact, as well the long action capable caliber change, but that is your right.

As Chris above said, they are actually quite comfortable to shoot. They balance very well and for a bullpup their trigger is excellent. I have also shot the German DSR-1, more than once too, and when you compare that rifle to the DTA, there is really no contest, the DTA is a much better product.

Granted Bullpups are not for everyone, but neither is a Windrunner, it's actually a pretty limited / niche platform, as someone said, who really is going to carry and use a Covert all the time. Or operationally switch from 308 to 243? I know I have owned an Accuracy International Covert since 2004, complete with American Tourister Case and still, I opt to use my other AW, no real reason to shoot the Covert. That said, because of the versatility the DTA Covert is a very user friendly platform when you consider the barrel options. You don't have to limit yourself to a 16" barrel you can go 18" and still you have a small package. Call out to a trailer park use a 16" barrel, problem at the airport you might want to consider that 338 for the windows on a plane, or maybe you can't get close enough, VA had a 545 yard shot, so how about a 20" barrel instead, still capable of hiding. But the Nemesis can do some of that too... just not all of that.

Really, if you look at your posts, your debate points, you have to ask, did you help or harm your potential new sales ? Sure there will be some sympathetic interest, but not as much as if you took a different approach at your promotion. Again, bullpups are not for everyone, there is a training curve to overcome, short as it is, people still think about that, however because of this thread, 4x more people are selling the DTA and doing a better job of it than you are selling the Nemesis, bad business plan if you ask me, and frankly speaking it doesn't matter because I don't own a DTA nor do I benefit from any sales at all.

Good luck with your product, nothing wrong with your metal gun, it works for what it is. But consider moving beyond the Windrunner at some point and you might hit on something. Try changing the caliber beyond the bolt face in a single receiver and then you can honestly say you are competing head to head with DTA, until then you are really just half of their rifle.

Oh and ps, cold weather and all metal... brrrrr... skins in winter are a much better fit, especially when a real world call out lasts 18 hours in freezing temps. There is a method to the polymer madness. Cold weather is an example of just one of them.
 
#63
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Ya Thunderbolt your right. When you have a DTA you can walk right into a school and bad guy holding hostages will just crap his pants and drop to his knees because you have a cool bull pup.

Where as the Nemesis can be walked into most civilian situations without detection, set up take control from a backpack or the briefcase undetected. That is called undercover.

The other thing that seems to be missed here is, if you don't want to take it down, you don't have to. It simply gives more options in that area.

I am not sure if you have any Real World L/E experience. Not everything has to do with Iraq or Afgan issues.

But, you know I just happen to be watching the History channel, with regard U.S. Snigers in Iraq and Afgan. and I dont see anyone carrying two barrels? Then again, they also are on the move, not in Call of Duty. Oh, by the way they are 95% of the time shooting .308. Odd I know but, just for your real life sernario's they usually are not shooting 1500 yards through a city.
 
#64
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Well Lowlight, you just gave a prime example. You compare the DTA to the DSR and say the DTA is better. Similar design.

Well News Flash, Nemesis Bought the Rights to the Windrunner and fixed the Design issues and so much more. Just because you shoot a daisy bb gun a long time ago, does not mean they are the same today. That would be called improvement.

The One thing the DTA Can Do Hands down, is swap to a .338 and congrats to them.

It is a good achievement, but that does not mean its the end all be all.

The bottom line is the Nemesis Arms Vanquish is far beyond the Windrunner series, just as you say the DTA has surpassed the DSR. If you had fired the Vanquish, you would know.

The Bottom line is, Every challenge or proof that has been requested on this site has been met, only to have no ackowledgement. Funny how it stops the shallow end. They don't want to see, they just change the attack.

You are also very right, the Nemesis Arms Vanquish rifle is half the size the DTA.

Three years ago, this site made the same poor claims and it did not stop Nemesis then, nor will it now. We just decided to stand up to the nay sayers and prove it. We did DTA did not. Its helped us, thanks.
 
#65
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk about Hollywood. How does al that plastic work out for you. I think Toys r Us fits your equipment a little better.
Our rifle can shoot from every and any position. Did you take a look at the system below, mount what you want. You can't shoot accurately with your DTA left handed without lifting your head to cycle it. This means in a Real World Sniping, that you remove view from your target or the movement of the target after firing. Can you say VERY BAD.

Last, How does the Plastic DTA milk crate pistol grip and chassis hold up on a drop test? What do you do when the DTA plastic pistol grip breaks or pops a screw in field?

Wish you had a Nemesis Arms Vanquish!!!



</div></div>


I have a DTA and would like to add a Vanquish to my collection, but talk like this from Nemesis is forcing me to do a double take.

The best thing "Nemesis" could have done is point out the differences between the rifles w/o ranting on their closest competitor. The Vanquish will work better for those who need a true backpack gun.

Those who need a preassembled compact rifle may be better off with the Covert. Also those who would like to use larger calibers such as the 7mm, 300 WM, and .338 Lapua, the Covert is the only choice between the two.

Any rifle that is not a true left handed rifle is going to be less than ideal for a left handed shooter. While the Vanquish may be slightly better for most left handed shooters, it doesn't mean it will be the best option for all left handed shooters.

The polymer argument is a non issue in my opinion. Think Sako TRG, AI, Sig 550/556, AR15s, SCAR, P90, Glock, Springfield XD, etc. All of which use polymer parts and are used by elite units around the world. The Vanquish has a Polymer based Hogue Grip too.

In the end, the buyer should be buying which ever rifle best suits their needs. From all accounts both systems are good to go.
 
#66
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NemesisArms10-7-11011.jpg


Here is your front mount.
For others The Vanquish can shoot from any position.
Tell What position you would like to shoot from? </div></div>

I like the idea of your forend, but would suggest to not put your company name into the forend. It is a total turnoff to most shooters. Hopefully the rails are removable too.
 
#67
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RMW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talk about Hollywood. How does al that plastic work out for you. I think Toys r Us fits your equipment a little better.
Our rifle can shoot from every and any position. Did you take a look at the system below, mount what you want. You can't shoot accurately with your DTA left handed without lifting your head to cycle it. This means in a Real World Sniping, that you remove view from your target or the movement of the target after firing. Can you say VERY BAD.

Last, How does the Plastic DTA milk crate pistol grip and chassis hold up on a drop test? What do you do when the DTA plastic pistol grip breaks or pops a screw in field?

Wish you had a Nemesis Arms Vanquish!!!



</div></div>


I have a DTA and would like to add a Vanquish to my collection, but talk like this from Nemesis is forcing me to do a double take.

The best thing "Nemesis" could have done is point out the differences between the rifles w/o ranting on their closest competitor. The Vanquish will work better for those who need a true backpack gun.

Those who need a preassembled compact rifle may be better off with the Covert. Also those who would like to use larger calibers such as the 7mm, 300 WM, and .338 Lapua, the Covert is the only choice between the two.

Any rifle that is not a true left handed rifle is going to be less than ideal for a left handed shooter. While the Vanquish may be slightly better for most left handed shooters, it doesn't mean it will be the best option for all left handed shooters.

The polymer argument is a non issue in my opinion. Think Sako TRG, AI, Sig 550/556, AR15s, SCAR, P90, Glock, Springfield XD, etc. All of which use polymer parts and are used by elite units around the world. The Vanquish has a Polymer based Hogue Grip too.

In the end, the buyer should be buying which ever rifle best suits their needs. From all accounts both systems are good to go. </div></div>

+1, all my surgeons sit in an AICS and I've never once had an issue with the skins. Some cosmetic dings from use but nothing that even remotely would be considered significant. I've always been wary of the SRS for my personal reasons with replacement barrels, but I've handled one before at the range and I never questioned its ruggedness. In fact if anything I would say I significantly preferred the feel to that of a windrunner I shot last year, YMMV.
 
#69
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

The DTA gives you the OPTION to keep a second caliber with you but that's a lot of added weight and bulk that most military snipers aren't going to want to burden themselves with for MOST missions. One of the primary benefits is that the SRS allows you to train with $1/round ammo on the gun you are going to use to employ $5/round ammo on mission. Might not be huge deal for military snipers, but that's 5x as many practice shots for that police sniper dealing with a very limited training budget! Kind of like training with a .22 then moving up to the .308 for matches like a lot of us do. Also, as Frank pointed out, you can choose a different caliber before you actually deploy depending on your mission expectations while maintaing the same glass and chasis. Sure you could leave your M24 at home and take the M107 for that 1600 meter shot, but you are going to spend a lot of time practicing with both weapons to remain proficient instead of drastically cutting that down by only training on the different ballistics from the same weapon system.
 
#70
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NemesisArms10-7-11011.jpg


Here is your front mount.
For others The Vanquish can shoot from any position.
Tell What position you would like to shoot from? </div></div>
Does this act as double duty and be the barrel nut too ??
Looks nice ,but I could do without the logo
What I had envisioned would have been something quick attached by sipping onto to the bipod post(like the bipod does ) with "tabs or ears " as you could say.. slipping into the holes where the colapsable stock rods run thru at the front of the reciever .or having them butt up against them on the bottom if stock was still kept intact for support? just thinking out loud here :)
 
#71
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not guess. I asked question. It seem that if its asked about DTA that is off limits, but saying that the Nemesis Arms Vanquish, is simply a "Hollywood Gun", or a "Fireplace Piece" is ok here. The people making the comments have not shot a Nemesis Vanquish, but think they can, as you put it, from the safety of the internet. </div></div>

Unlike you I wouldn't make comments like I did had I not used the product. I've shot it and I called it as I see it. If you have some new super spectacular forend that turns the rifle into something else perhaps it should atleast be on your site but its nowhere to be found, let alone in hands of shooters.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, I'll take that bet. Nemesis makes there parts out of "Metal", I've never seen a Milk Crate take more than Metal.
</div></div>

Who gives a crap if its made out of metal or polymer? Pmags are made of polymer and they put metal mags to shame in terms of durability. Look at AI's which are known as the toughest more reliable rifle money can buy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Snipers, that we associate with in Mil & L/E share the same thoughts, you don't lift your head when shooting a target or multiple.</div></div>

I completely agree with them. But you must not have shot a DTA because you DO NOT have to break cheek weld to crank the bolt.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The DTA folks said they can break theirs down faster, well I guess Nemesis Arms proved that wrong also. All I have say is, Next.</div></div>

Once again who gives a crap? With the DTA you aren't breaking it down to be ultra tacticool stealth mall ninja. Your breaking a DTA down to change from 308 to 338 or any caliber in between which is something your system CAN'T. The DTA doesn't have to be broken down to be an ultra compact package, you gain little to no compactness by breaking a DTA down so its a moot point. At most you would be screwing a suppressor on/off but other than that its ready to shoot right out of the bag with no question of where your POI is goign to be.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not any one rifle is built to do everything. Not everyone is going purchase one model rifle either. They simply should not throw stones from a glass house.</div></div>

I completely agree once again on both cases. Some rifles are built to do a lot more than others though...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Admire what you have or want, not put everything else down. Nemesis Arms has simply defended itself, even on threads started by those who ask questions with genuine interest, only to be spoken of poorly by those who have no experience with the equipment.</div></div>

I'm not a fanboy, I call things as I see it regardless of the product or brand on it. If it's a good rifle I've experienced I'll say so, if it had flaws then I'll say so aswell. Don't get your feathers ruffled. If you want people to like your product then do something about besides whining on the internet. I stand by every comment I've made regarding your rifle and I think many agree with me.
 
#72
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

I’m going to throw my $.02 in here.
I do not own either rifle and have no affiliation with either company. In fact, I’ve actually avoided the DTA because I am a dreaded “left hand” shooter. I’ve held a DTA, thought “this isn’t going to work” and never gave it a second thought. Normally, I am of the mindset that a LH shooter should shoot a RH rifle for many reasons; the ability to maintain a cheek weld, the ability to keep the trigger finger on the trigger, and the ability to rack the bolt while doing all this are just a few. But guess what? Multiple shots on moving/different targets usually require you to move in some capacity so having the perfect cheek weld 100% of the time isn’t necessarily a deal breaker. It’s not ideal, but it’s an impossible challenge. If I wanted to never lift my head or break a cheekweld, I would just shoot an AR platform.

Why is the DTA even compared with the Nemesis? Is it the caliber change? because that seems to be the only thing in common to keep this from an apples/oranges discussion.

Lastly Nemesis, as on objective observer who just read this thread and doesn’t have a dog in the fight, I would like to give you a little piece of advice and take it for what you paid for it; You are not reflecting well for your company. You are coming off like an arrogant ass rather than making counter points and addressing specific issues without being combative. I would have second thoughts about dealing with your company just based off your responses here. I mean, if I had an issue with a Nemesis is this the type of attitude I would receive in trying to rectify any problem? Because that is the first impression you are giving me.

Either way, good luck with your rifles.
 
#73
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The DTA gives you the OPTION to keep a second caliber with you but that's a lot of added weight and bulk that most military snipers aren't going to want to burden themselves with for MOST missions....... as Frank pointed out, you can choose a different caliber before you actually deploy depending on your mission expectations while maintaing the same glass and chasis. </div></div>
Very true. On most of the missions I'm aware of one caliber (whatever it is) is enough. But it would matter to me whether I need to worry about <span style="text-decoration: underline">one</span> hard-case deployment kit with <span style="text-decoration: underline">one</span> chassis and both calibers (so before heading out I configure the rifle for the mission at hand), or <span style="text-decoration: underline">two</span> hard-case deployment kits (different rifles, different scopes, you know the drill).

Also, if one <span style="text-decoration: underline">does</span> need to use two calibers on one mission - it's easier to schlepp one rifle and two barrels (and an extra bolt
smile.gif
) than two complete rifles.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mustafa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One of the primary benefits is that the SRS allows you to train with $1/round ammo on the gun you are going to use to employ $5/round ammo on mission.</div></div>
Yep - here and on a one-way range & a limited budget it matters a lot.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is the DTA even compared with the Nemesis? Is it the caliber change? because that seems to be the only thing in common to keep this from an apples/oranges discussion.</div></div>
Well, the OP liked both rifles (which I for one can understand). So he got what he could from the manufacturers, and asked here for opinions and comparisons, like why/when one would prefer one over the other, that would provide more data to help him choose what's best for him.

As I see it - the three common (or comparable) properties are:
  1. Both are bolt-action precision rifles of 0.5MOA - but:
    <ul style="list-style-type: disc">
  2. one is a conventional design rifle;
  3. the other one is a bullpup.
[*]Both are compact - but:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]one packs really small (17" - 20" briefcase or a backpack) and is inconspicuous in a "civilian" environment when packed;
[*]the other one is more compact in operational configuration (26" total, depending on the model) and packs smaller than conventional rifles but not as small as the other.
[/list][*]Both support multiple calibers and quick caliber change in the field - but:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]one allows as fast as 12-seconds caliber change but is limited to Short Action CF calibers;
[*]the other one allows under-a-minute caliber change in the field and supports SA (308 bolt-face only?) and LA (up to 338LM?) calibers.
[/list][/list]
 
#74
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

I don't have much to say on the comparison of the two rifles as they are both very different. I own a Nemesis Vanquish and have not had the pleasure of a DTA. I like the gun and the concept quite a bit. I like the fact that soon there will be magnum cals available with some changes to the system to allow for it. I especially enjoy the fact that Nemesis's customer service is some of the best I have ever seen, period! David and his crew will go above and beyond to make sure you are satisfied with your weapon!

What I have not liked is the way this thread has gone. One manufacturer bashing another manufacturers product is not what anyone on here wants or needs to hear. If an individual has issue with a certain platform that is fine and address that directly. Nemesis easily could have done this by addressing WSM ability, new stock and new rail.

It is obvious there are more people on this site that prefer the DTA over the Nemesis and that is fine as well but even those bashing a product they do not have first hand experience with doesn't provide any help either.

In the end, it would seem both platforms do what they say they will do and both are highly accurate.
 
#75
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I did not guess. I asked question. It seem that if its asked about DTA that is off limits, but saying that the Nemesis Arms Vanquish, is simply a "Hollywood Gun", or a "Fireplace Piece" is ok here. The people making the comments have not shot a Nemesis Vanquish, but think they can, as you put it, from the safety of the internet . . .

</div></div>

Wow! Okay, there's a big difference between consumers talking back and forth about what they do and don't like about various products, and then you AS THE MANUFACTURER coming on here and bashing another company. Why would you think that is even remotely acceptable or that it would go over well?

I spend a lot of money on gun stuff because I'm NOT in the military or LE and I actually have a job that pays me good money. I buy random stuff just because it's cool or different. I just bought a DTA because I think it's a cool concept and it's STUPID accurate.

I actually read the beginning of this post the other day and I didn't know anything about Nemesis. I then went to your website and decided that it would be the next rifle that I would purchase - because it's kinda nifty.

Anyway, I then started following this thread (because of my interest in the Nemesis) and saw how you were making a jackass out of yourself and your product. And, you have started attacking the DTA because it's plastic, but I don't see SR90 on here ripping your product because it looks like something from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. Seriously - plastic is your problem?!? Have you ever even heard of Glock?

So, I've now deemed that you're classless, and I the consumer will NOT be purchasing your rifle. And I will make it my personal point to deter all of my friends and colleagues (who have money to spend on guns) to steer clear of your product.

Bye the way. How dare you start tearing into a fellow firearm manufacturer like that. Shame on you! You guys need to be sticking up for each other.
 
#76
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NemesisArms10-7-11011.jpg


Here is your front mount.
For others The Vanquish can shoot from any position.
Tell What position you would like to shoot from? </div></div>

I am glad to see the forend on the rifle. Same with change in rear stock. I saw one of the earlier ones at a show ( talked with you) and decided no way to mount sling. Also had early Windrunner stock shorten under not ideal conditions( OOCH) so your new rear stock looks great. I never had my Chey Tac shorten unexpectedly on me though? Can you mount any AR Stock on it such as MagPull PRS? Is the forened like the CheyTac and used as BBL nut? I liked how the Chey Tac forend worked so it would be plus to me.

I dont see why you want to compare to DTA ( I have shot several of these and love as a right hander)/ The DTA is more of a compact field gun ( does very well in that role for medium to extreme range) while I see your weapon as covert/Urban ops designed. Different rifles for different needs. My opinion is based on bit of LE and other experience

Would love to see how yours shoots

Anyway good luck with sales, seems very well made
 
#77
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Hello Tactical,

We did not compare. Everyone else on this site did and attacked Nemesis Arms with disparaging statements. All have now been removed to make Nemesis Arms look bad and as if we went rogue. Wonder who did that, because that is deceitful.

The comments here ranged from;
We can't break it down in under 30 seconds to,-
It would look good over a fireplace only. -
It is a Hollywood gun at best-
It can't shoot-
Its only a novelty-
Left and Right shooting capability over the Nemesis Vanquish.-
Its not as tough as the DTA and on and on and on.

You can go the Thread: "Worlds Fastest Caliber Swap" here in the bolt gun section and see some of the comments I am speaking of. The video was posted to prove what was said we could not do.

We were also ask to prove everything on our system that was questioned, and when we did on video and ask for the same, onced proved we could, we were told it did not matter.

We are not regulars on this site. Three years ago we tried and were meet with the same attacks. We had several long term members here convince us that it was not that way anymore. It seems we made a mistake.

We simply would like to build and sell our equipment like any other Manufacturer. Those who have not used it should not make statements on its ability. We also stated that their are different systems for different applications, but that did not go over well either.


Tactical thank you for inquiring. We have been building our new site for those that are interested and will be happy to answer any questions that serious individuals have. Please contact Nemesis Arms through our web site. New site to be release soon.
 
#78
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Now it's the grand conspiracy theory that "everyone" on here attacked first and we technically and systematicly edited every one of those posts to "make you" look bad.

Just chalk it up to "everyone" on this site of being ignorant, walk away with that thought and we'll go back to thinking we're much more savvy then you believe this way everyone walks away happy.

Log out and as the owner of the site I wish you the best of luck in your sales and your future endeavors.

Get some rest it's late,

Cheers,
 
#79
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

I have no need for a gun to be concealed into a backpack and sneak into a school undetected then command that area.....I did that on Call of Duty once though, it was a bad ass head shot that finally leveled me up.....

In real life there are many times where I was on a mission and wished damn, I wish I had something with a little more ass, i.e 338 or 300WM

But with the Nemisis I would have been able to sneak in virtually undetected with my back pack and be able to swap from a 308 to a 243
crazy.gif
with the DTA I could have had that 300 or 338 barrel and been back in the fight.

Having shot both, Im not a huge fan of the Nemisis, to me( <----------My opinion) it is a niche/novelty rifle that really doesn't serve any good purpose.

I think that Nemisis could have used a little more tact in some of his posts, but whats done is done, bad advertising on your part dude.
 
#80
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes DTA rifles and accessories are made in the USA, by american workers, etc, etc...
laugh.gif


</div></div>

...and I'm a happy DTA owner for the past 15 days!! I love my American made DTA. Great job guys!
wink.gif
</div></div>


i am sure ive read on here some where that they have parts made in germany?
 
#81
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PSYOPS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes DTA rifles and accessories are made in the USA, by american workers, etc, etc...
laugh.gif


</div></div>

...and I'm a happy DTA owner for the past 15 days!! I love my American made DTA. Great job guys!
wink.gif
</div></div>


i am sure ive read on here some where that they have parts made in germany?</div></div>

Their barrels are Lothar Walther, so technically you're right. But then again, not many gun makers actually make their own barrels, so it doesn't really bother me that their barrels happen to be made in Germany and not the US. I've heard that most of the steal used in everyone's barrels comes from Germany because it's one of the last places on earth that have the quality of steal to make barrels.

So, most barrels start as metal from Germany, but LW happens to cut them in Germany, while Krieger does it in Wisconsin. Starting to split hairs. My S&B is from Germany as well!
 
#83
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemesis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello Tactical,

We did not compare. Everyone else on this site did and attacked Nemesis Arms with disparaging statements. All have now been removed to make Nemesis Arms look bad and as if we went rogue. Wonder who did that, because that is deceitful.

The comments here ranged from;
We can't break it down in under 30 seconds to,-
It would look good over a fireplace only. -
It is a Hollywood gun at best-
It can't shoot-
Its only a novelty-
Left and Right shooting capability over the Nemesis Vanquish.-
Its not as tough as the DTA and on and on and on.

You can go the Thread: "Worlds Fastest Caliber Swap" here in the bolt gun section and see some of the comments I am speaking of. The video was posted to prove what was said we could not do.

We were also ask to prove everything on our system that was questioned, and when we did on video and ask for the same, onced proved we could, we were told it did not matter.

We are not regulars on this site. Three years ago we tried and were meet with the same attacks. We had several long term members here convince us that it was not that way anymore. It seems we made a mistake.

We simply would like to build and sell our equipment like any other Manufacturer. Those who have not used it should not make statements on its ability. We also stated that their are different systems for different applications, but that did not go over well either.


Tactical thank you for inquiring. We have been building our new site for those that are interested and will be happy to answer any questions that serious individuals have. Please contact Nemesis Arms through our web site. New site to be release soon. </div></div>

I had sent you an email then saw this. I am a fairly serious individual and dont waste my time asking questions. I see a role for your rifle or I would not have asked my questions.

Hopefully you will answer my questions via email.

I want to stay out of the He said She said stuff. Never ends well. No on wins.
 
#84
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

was not trying to split hairs, cant find the post but it did say they "were waiting on parts from germany"
parts barrels who cares,
there was a review in a UK mag , the best group obtained by bruce potts was 1/2" @ 100y with the srs compact
 
#85
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Tactical said:
Nemesis said:
NemesisArms10-7-11011.jpg


Can you mount any AR Stock on it such as MagPull PRS? Is the forened like the CheyTac and used as BBL nut?

Yes, you can mount any AR stock as it has the screw adapter, along with the slide stop removal system of the original.
The quad rail is mounted to the barrel nut.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
#86
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

The standard twist on the Covert is 1/8 twist for sub sonics so I found shooting groups with the Covert barrel to not be as good as shooting groups with a standard 308 twist. It's not a group shooting combination.

It does place sub sonic ammo in a better position. I shot subs out to 200 yards and it was very good.

Plus 1/2" is nothing to sneeze at.
 
#88
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now it's the grand conspiracy theory that "everyone" on here attacked first and we technically and systematicly edited every one of those posts to "make you" look bad.

David, I suggest laying off the liquor.

</div></div>
Really, Lowlight. Its nice to see that you make personal disparaging comments and then just remove them at will when you're called on it!









 
#89
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">was not trying to split hairs, cant find the post but it did say they "were waiting on parts from germany"
parts barrels who cares,
there was a review in a UK mag , the best group obtained by bruce potts was 1/2" @ 100y with the srs compact</div></div>

Point taken. I'm sure you're right on the barrels from Germany. It wouldn't suprise me. Perhaps SR90 can enlighten since he made the comment.

I just put 9 shots in about 0.75 inches on saturday when I was sighting im my DTA. So, I would think its possible to get better than 1/2 inch with a little love and someone else pulling the trigger
smile.gif
I'm just speculating, but maybe I can put it on a bench and try to get less than 1/2 inch in the coming weeks.
 
#90
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

DTA is in effect a copy of the DSR but doesnt have the adjustable cheekpiece of the DSR. Both are fantastically overprice dand both suffer the classic bull pup problem of average to poor triggers due to the configuration. Both DTA and DSR use proprietry magazines that are low capacity.

Both shoot ok but is there really any advantage over a short bolt gun such as the AI covert? Perhaps not?
 
#91
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

one thing ive commented on before was the fit and finish of the plastic stock sides ,
now if your buying a gun for hunting /range use and it costs over £4000 i would expect the finish to be a1, the two ive seen were both dissapointing in this aspect , comparing it to AI , i know they dont meet 100% all the way round but the srs you could see where the mould edges had been cut with a knive ,particular the joint on cheek piece was well off , had quite a large gap.
some of us like to show off our purchases, and i honestly think that when your looking at rifles in this price band even the smallest detail should be spot on, rifles with a metal stock like the wind runner in theory should have a better finish ,
 
#92
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Both shoot ok but is there really any advantage over a short bolt gun such as the AI covert? Perhaps not?</div></div>

Uh . . . caliber conversion?!?
 
#93
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">one thing ive commented on before was the fit and finish of the plastic stock sides ,
now if your buying a gun for hunting /range use and it costs over £4000 i would expect the finish to be a1, the two ive seen were both dissapointing in this aspect , comparing it to AI , i know they dont meet 100% all the way round but the srs you could see where the mould edges had been cut with a knive ,particular the joint on cheek piece was well off , had quite a large gap.
some of us like to show off our purchases, and i honestly think that when your looking at rifles in this price band even the smallest detail should be spot on, rifles with a metal stock like the wind runner in theory should have a better finish ,
</div></div>

For what it's worth, my DTA is WAY BETTER than my AI. Perhaps DTA has gotten better because I just got mine and I was actually thinking how good it looked for being plastic molds.

The reason I purchased the DTA was not that I wanted to pay $4500 for one rifle that's plastic . . . or $7000 for an AI
smile.gif
But rather, I have one rifle with my favorite scope on top and the whole package is about the same price as any other top of the line rifle now days (maybe about $1000 more) - but then I can add another caliber for $1800 and still have only one optic, then the cost savings start to make sense. This is particularly true because of the 338lm that I really want to play with, but I don't want to build a $4000 gun with ANOTHER $3200 optic for a round that I shoot once or twice a year at $6 per trigger pull.
 
#94
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

£4000=$6200
i can see the + points , i dont personaly have switch system but a couple of guys do in the club and its rare that they bother, but i can see going from small .308 to .338 is handy , .338 banned on a lot of rangers here,
i am sure that plastic can/ has been improved and being plastic its always going to have some change in tolerences
 
#95
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">£4000=$6200
i can see the + points , i dont personaly have switch system but a couple of guys do in the club and its rare that they bother, but i can see going from small .308 to .338 is handy , .338 banned on a lot of rangers here,
i am sure that plastic can/ has been improved and being plastic its always going to have some change in tolerences</div></div>

Oh wow! They're that spendy there?!? Yeah, I would have to think really hard about it as well. Especially if you couldn't shoot 338lm! That's a bummer!

I think I'll only shoot the 338 once or twice a year since it will cost so much to shoot. But, it will be fun to do!
 
#96
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

grin.gif
Fun, a duel of mice!
grin.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">DTA is in effect a copy of the DSR but doesnt have the adjustable cheekpiece of the DSR.</div></div>
Not really a copy - though its lineage can be seen (and DSR-1 in turn was influenced by or evolved from Erma SR-100). Here's the comparison thread between the two. And yes DTA does not currently have adjustable cheekpiece - which is one of the disadvantages of DTA. Perhaps they'll consider adding this useful component in the future. Still, the platform clearly has advantages that make some people choosing it rather than, say, AI AW or the "original" DSR.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both are fantastically overprice...</div></div>
Both are expensive, true. DTA SRS for example would be in the ballpark of $4,700 for the chassis and one caliber (e.g., 308). But take a look at the cost of other precision rifles: Vanquish is around $4,450 (don't know what's included), AW in 308 is between $5,600 and $6,500 plus options ($6,600 for 338LM), DSR-1 (with its 0.2MOA accuracy) would be between $13K and $20K in US if (and it's a big "if") you can find one...

If by "overpriced" you mean "available somewhere else for less", I'd like to know what that substitute would be.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and both suffer the classic bull pup problem of average to poor triggers due to the configuration.</div></div>
Well, definitely can't call the DTA trigger "poor". IMHO definitely better than average. Best? Probably not. "Good enough"? I'd say yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both DTA and DSR use proprietry magazines that are low capacity.</div></div>
Yes, at least for DTA (5 rounds for 338LM, 6 rounds for 308). They're around $100 compared to $70 for AI magazines. I'd love to have larger (say 10 rounds) magazines - but this is yet another disadvantage that chose to accept for the advantages that this platform offers me.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both shoot ok but is there really any advantage over a short bolt gun such as the AI covert? Perhaps not?</div></div>
First, it depends on whether you prefer a gun that's short in packing but long in operation: AWS Covert is 47" long assembled, but I'd estimate that it breaks down into 16"-20" components. And it fits in a "small suitcase" (see the picture in the link above). And then there's that caliber change - AWS Covert is 308 only, and optimized for subsonic. But again, if there was no need or no users for AWS and AWS Covert, they wouldn't be selling.
 
#98
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

Is DTA widely used by law enforcement or the military. Have they won any major contracts ?
 
#99
Re: DTA SRS Covert Rifle VS. Nemesis ArmsTactical 308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twisted .308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is the pic of the AWS covert in a suitcase ??</div></div>
You didn't follow the link AWS Covert in my post, did you?
smile.gif


The following link/article shows both the closed suitcase (at the top of the page), and a part (most or all of the contents) of the open suitcase between the description/text and the rifle specs:
http://www.ketmer.com/ai/defense/awcovert/index.htm
 
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