Night Vision DTNVGS (new skeletonized model) or SkeetIRx

[mako15]

Help me decide.

I have a PVS-14 already.

Would like to use for hunting?

DTNVGS = $10K
SkeetIRX = $15K (+ lawyer money for divorce).

Any advice would be appreciated?

P.S., You guys are a tremendously bad influence on my bank account!

 

[Choid]

I have the Skeet and the DTNVG. Love the skeet, but would take the DTNVG ten out of ten times. Not even close.

 

[mako15]

The Coti just became available at 3K? How about that with the NVG's? Sound about right. I think only 30Hz for coti versus ecoti so not as great but workable. What do you think?

 

[mako15]

Thank you Choid and Eliteuas - that helps!

 

[mako15]

Mostly hunting. Terrain would be pretty hilly not flat. Thank you!

 

[Choid]

Unless you are hunting mice, go with the DTNVS. I mean, we might have a different definition of hilly, but for my hilly, you don't want to be walking up a hill on thermal.

 

[TheHorta]

I have both a killer 2500/2500 FOM DTNVG with RPO optics — basically the best set of DTNVGs on planet earth — with COTI and dual helmet-mounted SkeetIR-X’s.

Unless I’m clearing rooms or driving something with a fixed windshield, I’ll take the dual Skeets 10/10 times. I will spot 100x more with the Skeets than I will with the best NV money can buy, even with fusion/COTI.

ETA: I also walk, hike, climb and drive my Ranger and Quad at 50+ MPH using nothing but thermal. I see terrain in some cases even better with the Skeets than I do with the DT's.

Just what works for me. Different strokes, and all that.

 

[jeffl838]

Sounds like your budget is 15k, so maybe DTNVS + the new n-vision 1x thermal?

Or dual MH25

 

[Choid]

I have both a killer 2500/2500 FOM DTNVG with RPO optics — basically the best set of DTNVGs on planet earth — with COTI and dual helmet-mounted SkeetIR-X’s.

Unless I’m clearing rooms or driving something with a fixed windshield, I’ll take the dual Skeets 10/10 times. I will spot 100x more with the Skeets than I will with the best NV money can buy, even with fusion/COTI.

View attachment 7421463

dude, you live in a flat swamp. hills are, imo, the determining factor of which works best.

 

[mako15]

I know the skeetIRx is awesome (910 meters out) and very hard to get. Damn, I know its the right one to get first, but 15K - oh boy!

I will either buy the SkeetIRx this weekend or the coti. I need thermal in my life - lol

 

[mako15]

Yeah, budget is 15K. Hence maybe the DTNVGS and the coti. I know I will not be as happy as with the SkeetIRX.

Time to sell some stuff!

Horta - your are next level bro. I'm your little brother working my way up.

 

[TheHorta]

dude, you live in a flat swamp. hills are, imo, the determining factor of which works best.

I'm hilly as hell here, bro. My house is >1,000' above sea level.

 

[TheHorta]

Yeah, budget is 15K. Hence maybe the DTNVGS and the coti. I know I will not be as happy as with the SkeetIRX.

Time to sell some stuff!

Horta - your are next level bro. I'm your little brother working my way up.

No shame in DTNVG + COTI.

 

[Choid]

I'm hilly as hell here, bro. My house is >1,000' above sea level.

I'm 1700 feet above my mailbox.

 

[Choid]

Perhaps

My dick is bigger then both of yours

Perhaps, but literally nobody has ever seen it to confirm.

 

[TheHorta]

I'm 1700 feet above my mailbox.

Did I say feet? I meant meters...

 

[jeffl838]

The skeetir offers a laser and a rating for use as a weapon sight. If you don't need those two things, you might as well go MH25. If you only need it to double as a weapon sight, the new n-vision product I think is just a few oz heavier? Skeetir is the gold standard though, just not at the cost of almost 4 x mh25's.

I'd consider the BNVD and BNVD UL as well, especially if you're looking for manual gain.

15k budget in mind... If you get binos for 8k, coti for 3k, and mh25 for 4k, you'll have a pretty good sensor suite

 

[Mban2]

If it is for hunting, then the Skeet will dominate any I2 device in terms of detecting and identifying game. Dual tubes are great for running around in rugged terrain quickly, and doing soldier type things. Thermal reigns supreme for hunting. A pvs14 and a thermal covers both spectrums pretty well

 

[SkyScrapin]

I would get thermal as well. You will see sooooo much more with helmet mounted thermal.

Even if you can't swing the Skeet, get the Vox when it releases.

 

[Choid]

You guys are all wrong. The skeet is great, but secondary to duals unless you are playing on a flat field.

 

[Mban2]

I have both a killer 2500/2500 FOM DTNVG with RPO optics — basically the best set of DTNVGs on planet earth — with COTI and dual helmet-mounted SkeetIR-X’s.

Unless I’m clearing rooms or driving something with a fixed windshield, I’ll take the dual Skeets 10/10 times. I will spot 100x more with the Skeets than I will with the best NV money can buy, even with fusion/COTI.

ETA: I also walk, hike, climb and drive my Ranger and Quad at 50+ MPH using nothing but thermal. I see terrain in some cases even better with the Skeets than I do with the DT's.

Just what works for me. Different strokes, and all that.

View attachment 7421463

You clearly haven’t used the F-Panos. Those will beat dual skeets, Gucci dual tubes, COTIs etc. but they are kind of hard to come by

 

[liaisons]

You clearly haven’t used the F-Panos. Those will beat dual skeets, Gucci dual tubes, COTIs etc. but they are kind of hard to come by

Do you have a link to these F-Panos? L3 or Elbit?

 

[liaisons]

Fusion panos. They exist. But in civilian hands they are folklore

These I take it...? https://armedfigures.com/t/l3-technologies-fused-gpnvg-sofic-2019/2363

Wonder what they weigh compared to the GPNVG

ETA Guessing they aren't going to be listed on L3's website. LOL

ETA Better link with actual info and mentions 800G - https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/sofic-2019-l3-technologies-unveils-the-fused-gpnvg

 

[liaisons]

I hear China is working on a copy soon. They can’t confirm nor deny, or they’d have to kill ya.

Actually they are working on F-Octo's with 360 FOV and Dim Sum

 

[mako15]

What do you guys think of the COTI @ $3K for now (with the DTNVG-S @10K)?

Is it decent enough to hold me over until next year when I can save up for the skeetIRX (and hopefully find another pair)?

Given the terrain, I think NVGs may be better to get first. I also have a PVS-14.

 

[Choid]

Smart man. The coti works well with the duals.

 

[jeffl838]

I think it's a smart set up but I'm also convinced a 640 coti is right around the corner

 

[liaisons]

I think it's a smart set up but I'm also convinced a 640 coti is right around the corner

I hope so. e-COTI would be great at a minimum.

Surely the recent COTI purchases demonstrate the civilian demand. Seems that a lot of units were moved in quick order.

Then again... 2020 demand must have set a new water mark in the night vision industry.

 

[Blackhalo]

Not to Hijack. But along the same lines. Would you guys go with a Mono/COTI or a good set of Duals if I'm just starting out?

Could add COTI down the line if they are still available. Tempted to grab duals and COTI off the bat, but I think my wife will kill me. COTI would have to wait for a few months.

 

[mako15]

If it helps to know, Eurooptic has Coti's on sale right now for $3k ($2.5k off).

 

[GBMaryland]

The Coti just became available at 3K? How about that with the NVG's? Sound about right. I think only 30Hz for coti versus ecoti so not as great but workable. What do you think?

I’ve owned:

- W1000
- AN/PAS-29A (the COTI)
- IR Hunter Mk II
- ReapIR Mk I
- SkeetIRX
- China Skeet
- so many PVS-14s its unreal (ITT Pinicles, L3s, really old L3s, Elbit, photonis stuff...)
- PVS-4s
- a few TVS-5s
- PVS-24 (CNVD)

The China skeet was surprisingly good. A lot of the features that I wanted the skeet IRX to have the China skeet actually has.

The SkeetIRX was pretty much everything I wanted all the other thermal devices to be.

The COTI is it interesting and halfway decent device… But the problem is that it doesn’t really work THAT well. However, now that the price is halfway decent, it might be something to think about.

Frankly I think we should all tell Vectronics kiss our asses and let them sit in inventory until they’re selling them for $1000 apiece. The ECOTI is considerably better and has been available for years and they will not let us buy them… And they keep trying to sell us the crappy version for lots of money.

The question is do you intend to weapon mount the themal? If not, don’t waste a shit load of money, buy yourself in China skeet with a PVS 14 ocular lens. It won’t be perfect, but it will be surprisingly good.

also, there are a lot of products coming out that will probably compete with the skeetIRX to the point where paying that kind of money doesn’t make any sense

 

[WhereNow&How]

Not to Hijack. But along the same lines. Would you guys go with a Mono/COTI or a good set of Duals if I'm just starting out?

Could add COTI down the line if they are still available. Tempted to grab duals and COTI off the bat, but I think my wife will kill me. COTI would have to wait for a few months.

So the first question is what are you setting up for. That will drive the answer.

 

[mako15]

Thank you all for the detailed replies.

GBMaryland, thank you for the advice and perspective. I think weapon mounting is a likely possibility so the china skeet or SkeetIRX may be the next item I pick up. And yeah, its BS we can't just get the ecoti at this point. Totally agreed!

 

[mikefraz]

I would get thermal as well. You will see sooooo much more with helmet mounted thermal.

Even if you can't swing the Skeet, get the Vox when it releases.

What is this “Vox”?

 

[liaisons]

Thank you all for the detailed replies.

GBMaryland, thank you for the advice and perspective. I think weapon mounting is a likely possibility so the china skeet or SkeetIRX may be the next item I pick up. And yeah, its BS we can't just get the ecoti at this point. Totally agreed!

The China skeet cannot be weapon mounted. That’s where the differences come into play on the China skeet vs Skeetirx.

The Skeetirx is weapon mountable in 2 ways - it has a reticle and can be a stand alone thermal sight. The 2nd way is by means of acting as a “clip-on.” I say acting because it’s not really a true clip-on. I’ve not tested mine as a clip-on, but it’s on my TODO list.

The Skeetirx also has an IR laser designator to help point out thermal objects/targets to someone or yourself with I^2 night vision (-14, DTNVG, -24, whatever). This is a slick feature, but how much it would be used would depend on the conditions and what you are hunting.

The Nvision NOX is supposedly coming out in November at a much better price point than the Skeetirx. It has a 640 BAE core and it is weapon and helmet mountable. It is made in the USA by a reputable company. That said, it does not have clip-on option or an IR laser.

The China skeet is purely for scanning (handheld or helmet mounted). It has a decent image but has none of the other features, and it’s likely not as rugged as the Skeetirx or the Nvision unit. It cannot be used as a weapon mount and it does not have an IR laser.

If I just entered the market looking for a thermal “do all,” I would wait for the Nvision unit and at least see what the quality looks like. It’s a 640 BAE core just like they use in the other units, which have excellent quality. The price is fair for what you are getting... and it’s made in the USA by a USA company.

 

[mako15]

LIASONS - thanks for the tip on the Nvision. I think I will wait and check them out given that core and where they will be made. By then, I may even may be able to swing a skeetIRX if that turns out to make the most sense at that time.

 

[GBMaryland]

Thank you all for the detailed replies.

GBMaryland, thank you for the advice and perspective. I think weapon mounting is a likely possibility so the china skeet or SkeetIRX may be the next item I pick up. And yeah, its BS we can't just get the ecoti at this point. Totally agreed!

remember that if you’re putting it on a weapon you want the SkeetIR-X.

 

[Blackhalo]

So the first question is what are you setting up for. That will drive the answer.

Live in UT. Don't hunt.

It'll be more for going out on public land and shooting. Taking NV Classes etc.. General use I guess.

 

[mako15]

remember that if you’re putting it on a weapon you want the SkeetIR-X.

Definitely. Thanks!

 

[WhereNow&How]

Live in UT. Don't hunt.

It'll be more for going out on public land and shooting. Taking NV Classes etc.. General use I guess.

Well if you setting up for SHTF on a limited budget a Mono 14/COTI would be better than a good set of duals without a COTI. Same apply's to hunting.

If you aint worried about SHTF or hunting, go with a set of duals.

If it were me. I would got the PVS 14 mono/Coti on a Mod Armory Light Weight bridge initially and then at a later date when more funds were available add another PVS 14.

COTI availablity at $3,000 is probably not gonna last long, so if you snooze your likely to loose.

Tell the wife you love her so much and want to be able to protect her should harm come stalking in the night. Then get her to pay for the 2nd 14.

Not to Hijack. But along the same lines. Would you guys go with a Mono/COTI or a good set of Duals if I'm just starting out?

Could add COTI down the line if they are still available. Tempted to grab duals and COTI off the bat, but I think my wife will kill me. COTI would have to wait for a few months.

 

[Louis_Friend]

I have both a killer 2500/2500 FOM DTNVG with RPO optics — basically the best set of DTNVGs on planet earth — with COTI and dual helmet-mounted SkeetIR-X’s.

Unless I’m clearing rooms or driving something with a fixed windshield, I’ll take the dual Skeets 10/10 times. I will spot 100x more with the Skeets than I will with the best NV money can buy, even with fusion/COTI.

ETA: I also walk, hike, climb and drive my Ranger and Quad at 50+ MPH using nothing but thermal. I see terrain in some cases even better with the Skeets than I do with the DT's.

Just what works for me. Different strokes, and all that.

View attachment 7421463

Horta, sorry for the noob question, but what are RPO optics? I saw the company's web site, but I wasn't able to discern what they offer that can be installed as an upgrade to your DTNVG. I'm assuming it has something to do with the eyepieces, but could you elaborate. Relatedly, what are your thoughts on Ether eyepieces? Just curious.

 

[zinny]

Horta, sorry for the noob question, but what are RPO optics? I saw the company's web site, but I wasn't able to discern what they offer that can be installed as an upgrade to your DTNVG. I'm assuming it has something to do with the eyepieces, but could you elaborate. Relatedly, what are your thoughts on Ether eyepieces? Just curious.

RPO makes light weight polymer optics for more than a few companies including L3. They are lighter weight and have better optical performance. In the case of dtnvs/pvs-14s/most bnvd systems. They make both objective and ocular lenses that are direct replacements. I've looked thru ether and pro's. Their performance are neck and neck, with the rpo being slightly less expensive.

But you are looking at around 3 grand for a full set of rpo optics. Vs slightly less than a grand for the milspec. So def marginal returns spectrum.

 

[Louis_Friend]

RPO makes light weight polymer optics for more than a few companies including L3. They are lighter weight and have better optical performance. In the case of dtnvs/pvs-14s/most bnvd systems. They make both objective and ocular lenses that are direct replacements. I've looked thru ether and pro's. Their performance are neck and neck, with the rpo being slightly less expensive.

But you are looking at around 3 grand for a full set of rpo optics. Vs slightly less than a grand for the milspec. So def marginal returns spectrum.

Where does one buy the RPO optics? I didn't realize they did objective lens work as well. And the RPO stuff is plug-and-play compatible?

 

[TheHorta]

Where does one buy the RPO optics? I didn't realize they did objective lens work as well. And the RPO stuff is plug-and-play compatible?

I had mine done through HEAT in Tulsa. They put full RPO’s on the front and replaced the cells in my Carson eyepieces — for about $3K.

Performance-wise, they absolutely crush the original PVS-14 optics, as well as being lighter and substantially more compact.

By “crush” I mean they are zero-distortion, and are razor-sharp from extreme edge to extreme edge. They also purport to transmit more light. I wasn’t able to do any comprehensive testing of before and after, but I have no reason to doubt the claim.

With the new optics, my DTNVGs clearly outperform my 07/2020 build 2376 PVS-31A’s.

 

[Louis_Friend]

I had mine done through HEAT in Tulsa. They put full RPO’s on the front and replaced the cells in my Carson eyepieces — for about $3K.

Performance-wise, they absolutely crush the original PVS-14 optics, as well as being lighter and substantially more compact.

By “crush” I mean they are zero-distortion, and are razor-sharp from extreme edge to extreme edge. They also purport to transmit more light. I wasn’t able to do any comprehensive testing of before and after, but I have no reason to doubt the claim.

With the new optics, my DTNVGs clearly outperform my 07/2020 build 2376 PVS-31A’s.

WHOA! Now that's something to consider. I didn't realize you could sort of, as you did, part swap (optics), start off with a HELLA good tube and push 31a territory. That's pretty cool. How were you able to source the DTNVG tubes that are the superstar performers? I'm assuming it was not by luck or chance you ended up with such a high end L3 tube.

All that being said, do you know of any vendors where one could find hand-selected, best-in-class, L3 WP? If I'm in NOD upgrade mode, which I am, I'm not really diggin' the whole you'll get what you get vibe.

 

[TheHorta]

I got mine in 2019, way before Coronapocalypse 2020 and the Mad Rush — when our economy was flying at record highs and the planet was awash in cash and goods.

Today? Fuggetabboutit.

 

[WhereNow&How]

All that being said, do you know of any vendors where one could find hand-selected, best-in-class, L3 WP? If I'm in NOD upgrade mode, which I am, I'm not really diggin' the whole you'll get what you get vibe.

Wave lots and lots and lots of cash in front of someone is about the only way today to get best fast.

It's a SELLERS MARKET today.