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I mean from a pure ease of reloading standpoint, I don’t think it gets easier than the 300 BLK. Good for deer and hogs to about 50 yardsWhen I first saw this thread, I was thinking about my 45-70 BPCR loads when I started. Fill that big case with fffg Black powder and seat a bullet. Too Easy.
@sirhrmechanic was right on with 38 special too.
I still roll back to 308 for a wide variety of suitable powders and bullets that will cover a variety of targets and ranges. Are there better cartridges for different applications? YES! But for component availability and the niche of JOATMON the 308 fills the check boxes.
Standardized barrel twists? .308?I also think that the 308 is easier to load than 223 because of the standardized barrel twists. I’ve handled 223s in the same model of rifle that have twists from 1:7 to 1:14. Talk about messing with your mind.
True, but for the most part, any 308 will shot any of the common 308 bullets, where as with the 223, you find a lot of barrels that wont stabilize the heavy stuff. Going all the way to 1 in 8 seems very niche for the .308. The only people needing that fast of twist are going to be shooting heavy subs. I shot 208 a max out of my 1 in 12 factory remington.Standardized barrel twists? .308?
You are joking, right?
New MRAD .308 is something like 1:8. TRG is 1:11.5. Gain twist is coming back in a big way.
Standardized? Not so much.
Sirhr
How far do/did you typically shoot that Amax and what MVs are/were you getting? Im assuming a 24” or 26” tube or did you trim it down?True, but for the most part, any 308 will shot any of the common 308 bullets, where as with the 223, you find a lot of barrels that wont stabilize the heavy stuff. Going all the way to 1 in 8 seems very niche for the .308. The only people needing that fast of twist are going to be shooting heavy subs. I shot 208 a max out of my 1 in 12 factory remington.
26" they were only about 2300 or 2350. I typically didn't shoot that bullet in the 308, I just tried them once. I typically shoot that bullet in the 300wm.How far do/did you typically shoot that Amax and what MVs are/were you getting? Im assuming a 24” or 26” tube or did you trim it down?
Yep, i loved it in my win mag. Too bad its out of production…26" they were only about 2300 or 2350. I typically didn't shoot that bullet in the 308, I just tried them once. I typically shoot that bullet in the 300wm.
I know people who don’t even bother with load development with BR and Dasher
Basically anything that uses Varget efficiently, it’s just an easy consistent powder that’s not finicky lot to lot, doesn’t carbon ring like 4350, 4831, and H1000, and is just clean with the best temperature stability of any powder.
223, 6BR, 6Dasher, 6.5x47, 308. Pick your poison.
I’d say 6BR, 6Dasher and 6.5x47 are the absolute easiest. I know people who don’t even bother with load development with BR and Dasher and I’m convinced it’s not necessary with 6.5x47 either, I had multiple barrels that 36.8gr of Varget behind a 140 Hybrid .020 off the lands was the load and that’s a lot of other peoples load too. Look at the BR and Dasher load threads and you’ll see the some consistency.
308 and 6 GT for meGoing to be selling my unfired Tikka 300 wsm barreled action soon. I feel like it's too much gun for what I'm doing. Kind of an impulse build.
This would be for a bolt gun.
Wondering what cartridge one would choose to load for? Looking for easiest load development. Possible. Would use the cartridge to hunt whitetail, black bear and possibly bore. Also, just plinking and shooting for groups from the bench. Max shots would be 500 yards. Majority would be between 1-400 yards. I currently hunt with a 6.5 grendel. Shot a deer last year at 300 yards and killed it, but penetration was not good at all. Also, have a 6br, but it's heavy as hell.
Any recommendations?
Varget is pretty famous for its lot to lot variance. Its also a pretty hot powder, which can hard on throats. I can say I have never had a carbon ring in a gun I use Varget in. I never had carbon ring problems before or after I stopped using bore guides to clean.Basically anything that uses Varget efficiently, it’s just an easy consistent powder that’s not finicky lot to lot, doesn’t carbon ring like 4350, 4831, and H1000, and is just clean with the best temperature stability of any powder.
223, 6BR, 6Dasher, 6.5x47, 308. Pick your poison.
I’d say 6BR, 6Dasher and 6.5x47 are the absolute easiest. I know people who don’t even bother with load development with BR and Dasher and I’m convinced it’s not necessary with 6.5x47 either, I had multiple barrels that 36.8gr of Varget behind a 140 Hybrid .020 off the lands was the load and that’s a lot of other peoples load too. Look at the BR and Dasher load threads and you’ll see the some consistency.
Varget is pretty famous for its lot to lot variance. Its also a pretty hot powder, which can hard on throats. I can say I have never had a carbon ring in a gun I use Varget in. I never had carbon ring problems before or after I stopped using bore guides to clean.
How can a bore guide that barely enters the chamber possibly cause a carbon ring in the throat?
I did not realize bore guides were specific to cartridge, just learned that now. So I was shoving what i bet is a 223 bore guide way up into the shoulder of a 22-250. I am not sure how or if it was related for that matter. It was the only time I have ever used one, and i had problems, so I put it away. I have never had any trouble cleaning without one, so I never revisited the situation. I stuffed it in a drawer until today, and never looked at bore guides again.
Could be right, except about the cleaning without one being "silly." And about the lot to lot Varget thing. I don't know about the carbon ring thing. I shot out a 300wm barrel with 4831SC and never experienced a carbon ring. I shot a lot of 4831SC in a 6.5 Creed and never experienced a carbon ring.They arent specific to cartridge either, they are somewhat specific to bore diameter but that’s it. They’ve got a universal cone that’s designed to butt up in the chamber just barely inside the chamber. Unless you’ve got a 22-50BMG wildcat that bore guide isn’t getting anywhere near the throat. A bore guide had absolutely nothing to do with your carbon rings and cleaning a barrel without one is silly.
Powder, bullet and primer seem to mirror AB39 (aka Mk316 mod 0), just the brass was stamped different (prob has the same case capacity). I think Federal changed the GMM powders a couple times since but not sure exactly which powders; I heard/read 2000MR or AR Comp but could be way off on that.View attachment 8077275
308, fgmm load data (2009)
You need one of these !Could be right, except about the cleaning without one being "silly."
I have had something of the sort since about 2007 when I bought my first AR.
I'd be interested in that thread. Please continue it here haha.I have had something of the sort since about 2007 when I bought my first AR.
There are certainly powders that carbon ring worse, and powders that don't carbon ring. There are types of shooting that tend to build carbon rings worse.
Not the subject of this thread. Further discussion should probably be in another thread.
Why not educate them if that's the case ? What do think their carbon ring is caused by ?You beat me to it. In 6mm I use one of those with a square of cut-up old t-shirt and an AR chamber brush.
Guys get carbon rings because they're boneheads, it's their fault, not the powder's fault.
Why not educate them if that's the case ? What do think their carbon ring is caused by ?
Most of all that work would not be needed if brass was trimmed to the proper length for the chamber . No carbon in the first place is my goal .Thought it was self-explanatory...
IMO, a carbon ring is caused by improper cleaning, period.
Many guys (even the ones who clean their guns after every session) ignore the chamber area and just in front of it... which is dumb, because carbon rings form right at, or just in front of the chamber area. A guy could clean his rifle every single day and if he ignores the chamber every time, then whether they get a carbon ring or not has to do with how lucky they are as much as anything else.
I try to remember to clean my bolt-gun every 200-400rds or so, so I'm not nearly as anal about it as some around here. And from what I've seen, I'm not sure my 10-minute cleaning process using Boretech Eliminator, cotton patches, nylon brushes, and zero else... even qualifies as "clean" to some guys' with their rituals that require abrasives, breaking out borescopes, and all kinds of shit with some guys thinking they need to get down to bare metal (you absolutely don't btw).
But, what I don't do is: skip over the main area where the explosion/combustion takes place (chamber) lol.
Once I'm just about done cleaning the barrel, I pull the bore guide, break out the 10" chamber rod with a nylon AR chamber brush on the end, wet a piece of cotton t-shirt or large patch big enough to wrap over the AR brush in Eliminator, and I clean the chamber area really well with a little back and forth and twisty twist. Then I attach a chamber mop and hit it real quick to clean up any excess Eliminator, and boom, the bore guide goes back in and I run my last few patches through the barrel and I'm done.
Voila! no carbon rings.
ETA: The AR brush works great for 6mm because it's purposely a little too small (so it leaves room for the cotton t-shirt/patch), and being smallerish, it easily reaches into the barrel a little bit to really get the freebore area/lands/and just past the lands. Obviously, different cartridges might require a different chamber brush and/or another layer of patch/t-shirt...
Visual aid:
View attachment 8077946
And how will that do anything to address the freebore where carbon rings form?Most of all that work would not be needed if brass was trimmed to the proper length for the chamber . No carbon in the first place is my goal .
he's implying the carbon ring tends to form in a gap between the brass and freebore proper.And how will that do anything to address the freebore where carbon rings form?
If the brass touches it that’s just a dirty chamber. He was trying to be a smart ass to ck but was technically wrong. So fuck Haney.he's implying the carbon ring tends to form in a gap between the brass and freebore proper.
Just to be clear, this is a gap in the reamer print along the bore-axis...before the free bore. Its not the gap around the neck circumfirentaially (like a 272 vs 270 neck or whatever). A gap after "in front of" the brass and before the freebore is going to be subject to blast, including carbon deposition.If the brass touches it that’s just a dirty chamber. He was trying to be a smart ass to ck but was technically wrong. So fuck Haney.
Thanks.Just to be clear, this is a gap in the reamer print along the bore-axis...before the free bore. Its not the gap around the neck circumfirentaially (like a 272 vs 270 neck or whatever). A gap after "in front of" the brass and before the freebore is going to be subject to blast, including carbon deposition.
Well that was one of my thoughts... In this environment the 6.5 is the Golden Child. All the hype and publicity, etc. But I remember 12 years ago when the .260 was the greatest thing ever. Nothing was ever going to replace it. Lots of loads and calibers and even the ultra-conservative Finnish Sako was chambering rifles in the "Cartridge of the moment." And then zap... it was gone. And the 6.5 was the Cartridge du Jour.
And before that it was something else... and I can't even remember what. Maybe was a 7mm 'something.' See how these popular cartridges last?
Anyway, if I were to look at a 'best or easiest cartridge to load, it would be the .308, the .30-06, the 5.56.... Not because they are best but because in 'changing' environments, there are more components available to assemble good rounds and will be for a long time to come.
Someone with some longer memory than I could probably go back to 1970 and list the "Hot Cartridge of the Day" for 50 years. Would be a fun exercise to see how many are still extant.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Keep trolling, dumb fuck . You suck at admitting you don't know shit .If the brass touches it that’s just a dirty chamber. He was trying to be a smart ass to ck but was technically wrong. So fuck Haney.
You really don't get this shit do you . Keep trolling though, it fits you well .And how will that do anything to address the freebore where carbon rings form?
No wonder this reloading forum is the subject of laughter in forums with educated men . Funny how the mods let every thread turn to shit with the same old dumb fucks spreading bullshit .
And that is the point… support from the masses has made it… better?The .260 didn't even get a tenth of the support that the 6.5 Creedmoor has. Popular amongst reloaders in specific disciplines, but beyond that the cartridge never saw the support and thus popularity that it deserved.
Arguably the 6.5 Creedmoor wouldn't exist if the .260 was properly supported.
And you suck dick but openly admit it so I guess we’re evenKeep trolling, dumb fuck . You suck at admitting you don't know shit .
A picture of haney realizingYou really don't get this shit do you . Keep trolling though, it fits you well .
I just realized you are the troll that goes by the name of Guffey on other forums . Now it makes sense . Loser .
And that is the point… support from the masses has made it… better?
A ballistics popularity contest?
You are 100 percent right. But that does not make something “win” in a true first-best-most proposition when it comes to actual utility or performance.
In a couple of years, 6.5 could well be the MySpace of cartridges… stomped by the popular Fakebook of cartridges which, itself, will be eclipsed by the TIKTok of cartridges.
Popular is not better.
Not that there is anything wrong with 6.5 Creed. But let’s revisit this thread in 10 years.
Sirhr
And that is the point… support from the masses has made it… better?
A ballistics popularity contest?
You are 100 percent right. But that does not make something “win” in a true first-best-most proposition when it comes to actual utility or performance.
In a couple of years, 6.5 could well be the MySpace of cartridges… stomped by the popular Fakebook of cartridges which, itself, will be eclipsed by the TIKTok of cartridges.
Popular is not better.
Not that there is anything wrong with 6.5 Creed. But let’s revisit this thread in 10 years.
Sirhr
Like properly trimmed brass eliminates carbon rings?No wonder this reloading forum is the subject of laughter in forums with educated men . Funny how the mods let every thread turn to shit with the same old dumb fucks spreading bullshit .
Yes! You can hear the supplication of power to help him win his arguments, “the mods let”…The irony of your second sentence in this post...is probably lost on you Sir.