Easy Target?

[meestermeetch]

Haven’t reloaded and don’t know anything about it. I’ve read a lot about gear and technique here a

If I start, I want to load 6.5 creedmoor ammo with Berger 140s in lapua SRP brass.

My performance goal is similar to the factory Berger stuff ~2850 FPS ~>10 SD ~ > 15 ES, .75 MOA. I would be happy. especially if I can roll them up for .75 or so.

What I don’t want:
I really don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of tiny SDs or groups and testing my load to death.

I also don’t want to go down the rabbit hole of spending a fortune on reloading equipment.

Finally I don’t want this to be a super tedious or time consuming process.

is this a doable goal?
What are the tricks to this?
beyond reading online here and elsewhere are there any good resources, classes otherwise for this?
Do people rent machine time? if I could roll up a bunch under someone experienced supervision I would feel a lot more confident...

 

[47guy]

for what you DONT want id suggest you stick to factory ammo.

 

[acudaowner]

you can do it .. the guy at our local range that reloaded a few hundred round for us both in the 140 berger and 142 smks had what I thought of as a nice low sd's and good mv with out a lot of fuss good luck to you finding the round you want ...

 

[meestermeetch]

Fair I guess I have to keep asking around. I agree with 47guy this is why I have been using premium factory ammo, it hasn’t held me back from being competitive at matches, don’t fix what ain’t broke, I see more folks have issues with hand loads than factory stuff, but the guys who have hand loads dialed are... dialed.

 

[FLIGHT762]

for what you DONT want id suggest you stick to factory ammo.

^^^^^This^^^^ Reloadng is a hobby, something you enjoy doing nearly as much as shooting. O/P, from what you described, reloading is not something you're interested in.

Find a suitable factory load that works for you and buy in bulk from the same lot.

 

[meestermeetch]

Flight762, that’s a good way of looking at it, I haven’t heard that perspective before but it makes a lot of sense.

A lot of folks act like it’s necessary for PRS, I have proven (at least at my level) it isn’t.

i know it would be something that would drive me insane, trying to get every detail right then chasing everything drop of performance. Won’t be good for my brain or wallet.

I also have to keep my wife happy and sitting in a reloading room probably wont make her happy, would rather spend my recreation hours shooting.

the reason I posted this is the Berger 140 factory loaded stuff is unobtainable right now, per Berger (pre covid19) they had an issue with a priming machine and where waiting on parts. The reason I am looking at this is for a stopgap until the Berger ammo is back.
the reason I posted this is the Berger 140 factory loaded stuff is unobtainable right now, per Berger (pre covid19) they had an issue with a priming machine and where waiting on parts. The reason I am looking at this is for a stopgap until the Berger ammo is back.

It sounds like finding another ammo as a stop gap is a superior solution.

 

[Forward543]

Fair I guess I have to keep asking around. I agree with 47guy this is why I have been using premium factory ammo, it hasn’t held me back from being competitive at matches, don’t fix what ain’t broke, I see more folks have issues with hand loads than factory stuff, but the guys who have hand loads dialed are... dialed.

Welcome to the battle. We are generally not bench guys, but if you have any of this OCD shit, you can dance around the rim all you want, and eventually you will be buried in it.

Easiest way is if you know someone who is setup. If not keep as simple as you can. Get a rock chucker press, a good caliper, a hand primer, a good set of full length bushing dies, and a scale ( beam are the cheapest, and they are accurate enough). You have a good selection of components listed, for a known round. That is a good start. Next, likely get some H4350, and get a load range to test from the depot. Set your length to factory to start. Launch a powder test at factory length over a Chrono, and pick the spot were your velocities have the smallest shift. (I.e. 2-3 different loads, separated by .3 of a grain, that have a similar, non increasing velocity). Then test length moving in .005" increments out, to find were it shoots nice and has low sd's. Then shoot that round until the wheels fall off.

There is 10,000 other things you can do to refine this process, but this will likely get you to a place were you can get a .75 moa round with decent ES. Warning though, if you are anything like the rest of us, you will not stop here. If you like the control and chaos, do it. If not shoot factory Berger, Prime, or Hornady and sell the brass. You will likely find one that shoots good enough. You can get trigger time and not burn up your finite resource, Time.

Stay safe and burn it down.

 

[meestermeetch]

Great advice. If I can sell the brass from prime or federal I will make that change until the Berger stuff is back.

I don’t have anyone nearby to help with reloading so I think I may be sticking with factory due to that time resource thing. Plus being a little ADD and OCD I am apprehensive about giving myself one more variable in this game. I see myself getting frustrated, losing a bunch of time chasing pointless performance. And spending a ton along the way.

 

[Doom]

It sounds like you are not the best candidate to take up reloading and all of the advice above is worthy of consideration.:

I’m guessing you’re initial investment will be between $500 and $700 minimum. Could easily be more, depending on what you ultimately decide for specific components. It will be somewhat time consuming. To achieve the level of performance you are looking for will most likely require weighing each charge. If I were to guess including setup time, case prep, powder loading, bullet seating you would spend 1-1/2 to two hours to prepare 50 rounds.

More importantly is whether or not you would find reloading enjoyable or a drudgery. There is also the issue of space. Not that it takes a lot of space but you want to be able to leave your equipment set up to reduce setup time.

I’ll put this out there also, almost everyone I know that reloads for rifle do so because they enjoy the process of reloading and load development. If I were to guess 90% of reloaders (rifle) justified off of cost savings but ultimately we reload because we enjoy the process. The other 10% reload because they have calibers for which ammunition is prohibitively expensive or unavailable.

 

[meestermeetch]

If I was retired I would probably enjoy reloading but my time, and range days are precious and I would rather shoot matches than ladder tests.

 

[King_beardsly]

Run factory stuff till the wheels fall off, and avoid the rabbit hole known as reloading. I started off run factory 6creed and figured I’d mess around with reloading if I needed to, fast forward a few months and I’m working feverishly in my basement loading a lot of brass for all kinds of testing to find the perfect load.

Now who ever said its control and chaos is a hundred percent correct, chasing the perfect loads because a whole other hobby if you let it and it did for my 6creed but now I’ve taken a step back with the dasher to enjoy the process instead of chasing the perfect groups or SD/ES

 

[Dthomas3523]

You can do it without going nuts. But you have to have a load development process that is streamlined, that works, and you have to trust it.

For examples, I decide which speed I want to be close to, and get a general idea what powder charge to get that. Then I load 3shots (I’m pretty meticulous about brass prep, neck tension, powder drop and seating pressure, so 3 is enough for me. The less meticulous, the more shots you want over chrono), in .2 increments 1grain above and below that target speed, and shoot them over a chrono.

I find either the velocity flat spot, or if there is no flat spot in velocity, I use the ES flat spot. Then I use the middle of that flat spot as charge weights.

Then just do seating depth tests and shoot groups to see where the seating depth tightens group and flattens out (you also use a tuner in place of this step or in conjunction afterwards).

That’s it. Load development over. I’ve tuned 10+ barrels since using this method and haven’t had an issue yet. Anyone I ever hear of having trouble finding a load is using circa 1990 loading methods and group shooting to find charge nodes. Or they are incorrectly using a ladder test.

If you don’t have time, and can afford factory ammo, nothing wrong with just running that. You can even have a tuner added to your barrel and dial the factory load groups in.

 

[Steel head]

I don’t really enjoy reloading but I do reload 95% of what I shoot.
I have a simple setup and now use a load development Program almost identical to the post above.
I don’t waste time on inconsequential steps, just a stable load and simple equipment that gives me the results I need.

 

[mojavejim]

I reload match ammo to reduce variables, you can get by with a kit and do what your after, BUT it's going to take a lot of time. Most all of my high $ upgrades are to streamline the process and saves me time. You can get it to the kernel with a good scale and hours and tweezers or spend the $ & be done in minutes. Same for trimming, but with all the money I save reloading at 3000-4000 rounds a year it should pay for its self by the time I exit.

 

[Snuby642]

Reloading is what you make of it.

My son has a 308 I have not been able to beat fgmm 168 in yet.

Next try will be with the Sierra Match Kings instead of everything else.

Its as if the ruger was custom tuned to run that round.

Today he called me from the range and said he shot some nice 1/2 inch groups and one cherry group close to 1/4 moa.

I said great, he said no my hornady expanding bullet reloads sucked and his good groups were fgmm.

I have bested many factory rounds in other guns.

That ruger and fgmm is my nemesis.

Why do we reload?
To keep us out of bars.

 

[47guy]

i will say this again...reloading is the most over thought thing on the planet..its not hard...its not rocket science and you do not have to be an engineer to make good ammo...i was an over thinker for years...ive done EVERY brass/bullet prep there is...i do none of that now....15 loads on my current brass and ive never even cleaned the primer pockets....and to be clear here....I DO NOT LIKE reloading...its not a fun hobby...it sucks...shooting is a fun hobby reloading is a necessary evil if you want the most out of your rifle.

as @Dthomas3523 said i find the velocity i want to be at and make adjustments around that velocity to make that load shoot...i do not chase loads to the 10th of a grain...i do not chase seating to the thousandths..i do not add or pull kernels for the perfect charge...if its within 3 kernels +or- its good.
i do not chase ESs or SDs and only use the magneto speed to find the velocity i want to work with or if theres a problem...i dont care what the chrony says i care what the target says.

now keep this in mind when your at your bench or the range chasing this perfect 1 hole unicorn load spending ALLLL this time at the bench preping brass seating to the thousanths dropping powder to the kernel ECT...and be honest with yourself when asking these questions...are YOU capable of shooting this unicorn load your chasing?....is your GUN capable of shooting this unicorn load your chasing?

 

[Dthomas3523]

i will say this again...reloading is the most over thought thing on the planet..its not hard...its not rocket science and you do not have to be an engineer to make good ammo...i was an over thinker for years...ive done EVERY brass/bullet prep there is...i do none of that now....15 loads on my current brass and ive never even cleaned the primer pockets....and to be clear here....I DO NOT LIKE reloading...its not a fun hobby...it sucks...shooting is a fun hobby reloading is a necessary evil if you want the most out of your rifle.

as @Dthomas3523 said i find the velocity i want to be at and make adjustments around that velocity to make that load shoot...i do not chase loads to the 10th of a grain...i do not chase seating to the thousandths..i do not add or pull kernels for the perfect charge...if its within 3 kernels +or- its good.
i do not chase ESs or SDs and only use the magneto speed to find the velocity i want to work with or if theres a problem...i dont care what the chrony says i care what the target says.

now keep this in mind when your at your bench or the range chasing this perfect 1 hole unicorn load spending ALLLL this time at the bench preping brass seating to the thousanths dropping powder to the kernel ECT...and be honest with yourself when asking these questions...are YOU capable of shooting this unicorn load your chasing?....is your GUN capable of shooting this unicorn load your chasing?

Agreed. There’s a difference from making good ammo and chasing perfect ammo. If you want to chase it, that’s fine, but I would chase it *while* continuing to shoot matches with a known performing load.

I‘m meticulous about my loading as I know I’ve done all I can do to make every round do the same thing every time. But if I get to the range to dope before a match and I get 10sd and 30es when I prefer or normally see lower, I’m still taking that ammo to the match and I’ll look into what I missed next week at the bench.

I’ve seen guys burn out barrels and not show up to matches because they had a 15sd that would never show up on 95% of the shots at a match.

 

[47guy]

Agreed. There’s a difference from making good ammo and chasing perfect ammo. If you want to chase it, that’s fine, but I would chase it *while* continuing to shoot matches with a known performing load.

I‘m meticulous about my loading as I know I’ve done all I can do to make every round do the same thing every time. But if I get to the range to dope before a match and I get 10sd and 30es when I prefer or normally see lower, I’m still taking that ammo to the match and I’ll look into what I missed next week at the bench.

I’ve seen guys burn out barrels and not show up to matches because they had a 15sd that would never show up on 95% of the shots at a match.

i said this in another thread but i watched my smith shoot a group just under 2" at 600yds that showed a 50fps ES and i shot a group at 600yds just over 2" at 600yds that showed a 69fps ES so i just do not put a lot of thought into chrony numbers anymore as long as the target says its all good...i just do not trust chrony numbers anymore...i use them to get the velocity im looking for and then again when i get the load im looking for and after that only if theres a problem.

i know guys like your talking about and ive also been that guy your talking about...ive shot out several barrels chasing the unicorn.

 

[Dthomas3523]

i said this in another thread but i watched my smith shoot a group just under 2" at 600yds that showed a 50fps ES and i shot a group at 600yds just over 2" at 600yds that showed a 69fps ES so i just do not put a lot of thought into chrony numbers anymore as long as the target says its all good...i just do not trust chrony numbers anymore...i use them to get the velocity im looking for and then again when i get the load im looking for and after that only if theres a problem.

i know guys like your talking about and ive also been that guy your talking about...ive shot out several barrels chasing the unicorn.

Ya, it’s not gonna matter much at 600. A 60es is only a .2 swing from the low to high side of the ES. At 1k it’s a .4 swing (.2 each way), so it might get you depending on target size. But there’s very few shots at that distance in PRS. So, you’re rarely losing a match from ES biting you.

 

[Steel head]

i said this in another thread but i watched my smith shoot a group just under 2" at 600yds that showed a 50fps ES and i shot a group at 600yds just over 2" at 600yds that showed a 69fps ES so i just do not put a lot of thought into chrony numbers anymore as long as the target says its all good...i just do not trust chrony numbers anymore...i use them to get the velocity im looking for and then again when i get the load im looking for and after that only if theres a problem.

i know guys like your talking about and ive also been that guy your talking about...ive shot out several barrels chasing the unicorn.

That’s why I laugh at people obsessing about SD for AR15’s.

 

[47guy]

That’s why I laugh at people obsessing about SD for AR15’s.

Exactly!! Those numbers do not matter as much as everyone thinks they do...with the exception of ELR..BR and F-class but inside 1000yds not so much.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Exactly!! Those numbers do not matter as much as everyone thinks they do...with the exception of ELR..BR and F-class but inside 1000yds not so much.

For PRS, I’ve even started to just check like 30rnds completely with pin gauge and hydro press. I set those separate and they are my long distance or kyl stage rounds. The rest I just hammer out with the non hydro arbor press. My dope is dialed in for the stringent ones.

The rest of the stages, ain’t gonna matter one bit.

 

[47guy]

For PRS, I’ve even started to just check like 30rnds completely with pin gauge and hydro press. I set those separate and they are my long distance or kyl stage rounds. The rest I just hammer out with the non hydro arbor press. My dope is dialed in for the stringent ones.

The rest of the stages, ain’t gonna matter one bit.

I knew a guy that loaded enough for the longer stuff separate like your doing...he was a pretty good shooter till they legalize weed lol!

 

[nikonNUT]

So I approached reloading like this (and I just started so take this with a grain of salt) but my 6.5CM loves Hornady 140gr ELD-Ms. I can get those by the case for 229.00/200 ct case shipped so why bother? Now the .338LM? The cheap stuff is 300.00/100ct case and Lapua factory stuff? Yikes! I've done some cyphering and I should be able to load sub-$2.00/round (I'm thinking about $1.45/each) so it will take MANY rounds to pay for the equipment but grabbing 100 rounds for a trip down to Dallas will save me somewhere between $150 and $600 dollars aka gas and range fees at the least and a maybe more. Time? I got that so why not decap and stuff while the boob tube is on? The critical stuff? I'm a machinist so I dig that shit! Best case scenario I save some money someday and groups tighten up a bit. Worst case? Somebody is getting a hell of a deal on a Forster Co-Ax set-up for .338LM.

P.S. I'm with you on keeping the wife happy. God, then family, then self...