Re: Economic collapse scenario
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There isn't a worse case scenario because every crisis leads to a welcomed 'solution' that leaves us a little worse than we were before yet we are told to feel better.
Does anyone think the Patriot Act was the best response to 9/11? Does anyone feel we're back to enjoying the full liberties we had before then?
Taxes and such are a red herring pushed by campaigners because the electorate feel their wallets more than they do their sense of social liberty. In the questions posed to the candidates nothing touched on civil liberties. Nothing about who will reverse or dilute the presidential statements W made or deconstruct Patriot. We're all ga ga over Obamacare but no one even bothers with the laws that are in place that can be used by the Govt against against civilians here on home soil. It's like not being safe in your own home but all you're worried about is getting more pocket money.
I don't believe there's a grand council of wicked old men planning this. It's human nature when placed at the helm of nearly unquestioned power. People are weak. Get out of the fodder class because even if you're one of the cows who looks up, if you're still in the herd then you'll only get crushed in the stampede. </div></div>
There are some great points in here but I will offer a couple of complementary and contrasting thoughts:
A) Take a look at wages since @ 1970 and contrast those against purchasing power / cost of goods and services / inflation. In other words, look at the net present value of earnings, then and now. The picture that becomes clear is that wages have been effectively held flat for decades. However, consumer credit has been expanded in exponential terms. Thus the public has been satiated in that they feel like they are making progress - they have 'stuff / toys' - that they have financed the shit out of.
Going back to monetary policy (dovetailed with financing strategy from the banks, marketing strategy from retailers, and the media) review the effect on the historic rate of savings in the US. Take 15 seconds and think about the consumerism and corresponding social changes when the rate fell below @7% YOY. Is it a coincidence that around the same time we really started to outsource our manufacturing sector? Again, economics is a predictable framework that when combined with policy and force can be used to shape a society.
B) Wicked old men sitting around in a circle - the primary difference between the wealthy and the rest of us is that the wealthy don't eat off their seed corn. They have accumulated a sum of money that is then invested and the return off the investment provides for (at minimum) all of their living expenses. That return is also taxed at a much lower rate - 15% on qualifying dividends.
Secondly, EVERY community has at least one group that routinely meets out of the public view to discuss what would be best for the community. Those with influence (read - wealth) have a seat at the table and that influence finds its way into policy. While I agree there likely isn't 'one' group responsible for all, there is no question that there are a variety of groups that hold tremendous sway over policy. Such groups include PACS, the CFR, Billderberg, and many others. All of which have overlapping and interlocking membership. To say the least - it isn't by accident.
Good luck
ETA regarding the 'fodder class' - the primary problem with allowing those with the gold to make the rules is that most of them have a broken moral compass and the consequences are paid by the rest of us. The Horatio Alger story is largely a myth today. Sure there are exceptions, however if one really starts with nothing - unless they run a 4.4 40 and weigh 230# with great hands - they will likely live through, and die of a life with nothing as well.
I have seen several studies that detail one's odds of moving up in economic status by generation. To say the least, if you fall off by a rev, your offsprings's odds of catching back up or exceeding that lost rev are very slim. Contrasted against the generationally advantaged wealthy, where the momentum of never having to touch the seed corn and always being included at the decision making table creates a completely different inertia. Those are long odds against most of us.
What we are watching play out right now - that the fodder class will ultimately be responsible for - is startling. Do yourselves a favor and research just three related policy changes - Community Reinvestment Act, the repeal of Glass Steagall, TARP -> QE. Ask yourself who really benefited? Who will pay the price?
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I agree with 100% of this. Anyone that believes to the contrary needs to open their eyes. The problem is how does one get out of the fodder class? I am lucky enough to have parents that have done well for themselves but they are still upper middle class. I was also lucky enough that my wife's parents have done just as well and so has my wife. However, I have fallen short based on what I went to school for and some bad investments. Sometimes I feel like I have failed and what I worry about most is that my kids will not have the same opportunities that I had due to me not coming out ahead. I am trying to catch up now but its very difficult. Once you fall behind its almost impossible to catch back up. Anyways can any of you suggest some reading. I am highly interested in this stuff and maybe just maybe understanding more about what I am up against will allow me to gain enough momentum to one day be outside of the fodder class myself.
I am to the point where I feel like most do, like I am not even living anymore. I mean yes we are alive but I mean seriously most of us work our butts off just to survive much less having the time or resources to actually live life, meaning enjoy hobbies, learn something we always wanted to learn, travel, spend time with the family, etc. I can go on and on. In fact, I feel like I know my co-workers more than my family and rightly so as I spend more time with my co-workers than I do with friends or family. Working the daily grind is not living IMO. What bothers me the most is when is enough enough? The rich keep getting richer and quite frankly most have more than they could ever possibly spend for generations. Most can live very well just off of the interest and tax savings of their earnings alone much less having to worry about gaining more wealth. Maybe one day I will be able to figure it out. I think most of us really don't want to be super rich, we just want to enjoy life. Tired of the daily grind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There isn't a worse case scenario because every crisis leads to a welcomed 'solution' that leaves us a little worse than we were before yet we are told to feel better.
Does anyone think the Patriot Act was the best response to 9/11? Does anyone feel we're back to enjoying the full liberties we had before then?
Taxes and such are a red herring pushed by campaigners because the electorate feel their wallets more than they do their sense of social liberty. In the questions posed to the candidates nothing touched on civil liberties. Nothing about who will reverse or dilute the presidential statements W made or deconstruct Patriot. We're all ga ga over Obamacare but no one even bothers with the laws that are in place that can be used by the Govt against against civilians here on home soil. It's like not being safe in your own home but all you're worried about is getting more pocket money.
I don't believe there's a grand council of wicked old men planning this. It's human nature when placed at the helm of nearly unquestioned power. People are weak. Get out of the fodder class because even if you're one of the cows who looks up, if you're still in the herd then you'll only get crushed in the stampede. </div></div>
There are some great points in here but I will offer a couple of complementary and contrasting thoughts:
A) Take a look at wages since @ 1970 and contrast those against purchasing power / cost of goods and services / inflation. In other words, look at the net present value of earnings, then and now. The picture that becomes clear is that wages have been effectively held flat for decades. However, consumer credit has been expanded in exponential terms. Thus the public has been satiated in that they feel like they are making progress - they have 'stuff / toys' - that they have financed the shit out of.
Going back to monetary policy (dovetailed with financing strategy from the banks, marketing strategy from retailers, and the media) review the effect on the historic rate of savings in the US. Take 15 seconds and think about the consumerism and corresponding social changes when the rate fell below @7% YOY. Is it a coincidence that around the same time we really started to outsource our manufacturing sector? Again, economics is a predictable framework that when combined with policy and force can be used to shape a society.
B) Wicked old men sitting around in a circle - the primary difference between the wealthy and the rest of us is that the wealthy don't eat off their seed corn. They have accumulated a sum of money that is then invested and the return off the investment provides for (at minimum) all of their living expenses. That return is also taxed at a much lower rate - 15% on qualifying dividends.
Secondly, EVERY community has at least one group that routinely meets out of the public view to discuss what would be best for the community. Those with influence (read - wealth) have a seat at the table and that influence finds its way into policy. While I agree there likely isn't 'one' group responsible for all, there is no question that there are a variety of groups that hold tremendous sway over policy. Such groups include PACS, the CFR, Billderberg, and many others. All of which have overlapping and interlocking membership. To say the least - it isn't by accident.
Good luck
ETA regarding the 'fodder class' - the primary problem with allowing those with the gold to make the rules is that most of them have a broken moral compass and the consequences are paid by the rest of us. The Horatio Alger story is largely a myth today. Sure there are exceptions, however if one really starts with nothing - unless they run a 4.4 40 and weigh 230# with great hands - they will likely live through, and die of a life with nothing as well.
I have seen several studies that detail one's odds of moving up in economic status by generation. To say the least, if you fall off by a rev, your offsprings's odds of catching back up or exceeding that lost rev are very slim. Contrasted against the generationally advantaged wealthy, where the momentum of never having to touch the seed corn and always being included at the decision making table creates a completely different inertia. Those are long odds against most of us.
What we are watching play out right now - that the fodder class will ultimately be responsible for - is startling. Do yourselves a favor and research just three related policy changes - Community Reinvestment Act, the repeal of Glass Steagall, TARP -> QE. Ask yourself who really benefited? Who will pay the price?
</div></div>
I agree with 100% of this. Anyone that believes to the contrary needs to open their eyes. The problem is how does one get out of the fodder class? I am lucky enough to have parents that have done well for themselves but they are still upper middle class. I was also lucky enough that my wife's parents have done just as well and so has my wife. However, I have fallen short based on what I went to school for and some bad investments. Sometimes I feel like I have failed and what I worry about most is that my kids will not have the same opportunities that I had due to me not coming out ahead. I am trying to catch up now but its very difficult. Once you fall behind its almost impossible to catch back up. Anyways can any of you suggest some reading. I am highly interested in this stuff and maybe just maybe understanding more about what I am up against will allow me to gain enough momentum to one day be outside of the fodder class myself.
I am to the point where I feel like most do, like I am not even living anymore. I mean yes we are alive but I mean seriously most of us work our butts off just to survive much less having the time or resources to actually live life, meaning enjoy hobbies, learn something we always wanted to learn, travel, spend time with the family, etc. I can go on and on. In fact, I feel like I know my co-workers more than my family and rightly so as I spend more time with my co-workers than I do with friends or family. Working the daily grind is not living IMO. What bothers me the most is when is enough enough? The rich keep getting richer and quite frankly most have more than they could ever possibly spend for generations. Most can live very well just off of the interest and tax savings of their earnings alone much less having to worry about gaining more wealth. Maybe one day I will be able to figure it out. I think most of us really don't want to be super rich, we just want to enjoy life. Tired of the daily grind.
