Electric cars

[fpgt72]

As our hybrid owning friend has found out he has lost this discussion and took his crayons and gone home I want to comment on his hybrid car for a sec.

What does weight do to your mileage? Does not matter if you have bags of sand in your trunk for the snow, or huge batteries in the car weight will reduce range. I think our friend said he has a toyota camry and it does very well. Ok given. What would a camry do with that exact same engine, with the exact same tune do in the exact same car, but with 2000lbs less in it? Well it will go farther then one that had 2000lbs of sand in the back seat duh. You are hauling around basically two power trains, why. Oh yea because it makes you feel better about having "saved the planet" while getting none of the plus side of a pure electric vehicle. You get to deal with all the normal things an ICE engine has to deal with, along with any issues that come up from the electric side of the car, plus all the stuff that makes it work happy together. More complex, and more complex does not bring more issues does it?

Chevy had the Volt, and from what I understand this is like our train discussion. The gas engine made power for the electric motor and that is what moved the car. Ok fine, why? In a train engine you want that torque that the electric motors give you, do I need that in a four door car? No. So why? Only thing I can come up with is feels good.

Electric has its place, but its place is not everywhere. It is not on the farm, and it is not on a battlefield. It is not the solution for everything, not yet. And if you point this out you get called a racist.

 

[fpgt72]

The weak link in all of this innovation is the battery.
The most powerful equipment (Locomotives, CAT generators, etc) still need a plain old battery or that equipment is dead in the water. Since the invention of the internal combustion engine, man has come up with ideas on how to start the engine.
A few that I have worked on during my lifetime:
"Starting motor" or "Pony Motor". Caterpillar built equipment that had a small gasoline motor attached to the main diesel engine. The operator would take a starting rope and get the pony motor running at high RPM. A lever with a clutch or belt would be pulled and the pony motor would spin over the large diesel motor and get it started.

"Air Starters".. OTR trucks would have an additional large tank mounted on the frame and most thought they were a diesel fuel tank. That was an air reservoir. A push button in the cab was a valve that sent air to an air starter. It would spin over the large diesel engine until it started. On cold days it took more cranking and the air tank would run out of air. Trucks were parked next to an air compressor that would be used to re-pressure the tank until the engine started. If the truck was not near an air tank a portable compressor would have to be dispatched to fill the tank on the truck.

"Manual hand crank"... Historical... Portable equipment with no starter would be hand cranked to get the engines running... Like an old Harley with no starter..

Several friends have solar panels on their roof. With the increased cost of battery replacement they have disabled their systems.... Inflation, recession, material shortages and a host of other things have made their systems too expensive to maintain.

It's the "battery"...

You left out a couple.

 

[fpgt72]

I forgot one form "classic" hollywood. Great movie.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

You left out a couple.

You are helping me make my point.... Thanks

All the way down to that tiny battery in your watch or hearing aid...

Dead battery = No Good

 

[roostercogburn98]

They will tax you by the mile and your car will send them your mileage as you drive it, when they actually allow you to drive.

NC has a set tax you pay on top of your registration for all electric vehicles. Set in place because you don’t use the gas pump and pay them their toll there

 

[jff_stvns]

This^^^^^ the battery will be the down fall of EV!

I fully agree that what it takes to produce the battery and what you do with the disposal is indeed the biggest issue with the technology.

 

[Expert684]

I fully agree that what it takes to produce the battery and what you do with the disposal is indeed the biggest issue with the technology.

Don't overlook replacement cost and environmental hazards they will be.

 

[Snuby642]

Don't worry , we will get our laugh when you have to replace the batterys !

It soon will be a sealed unit and disposable like a tv (old guys remember when they were repair shops).

Battery stops just replace vehicles because we don't make "that" battery anymore, / never made replacements.

 

[Int1968]

However if you watch the video of the towing truck, it says it has a 300 mile range, hook a trailer up and watch every mile eat 3 in range, you don't know how far you are going to get.

Good try however.

Sorta like the shitty range indicator in a gas vehicle when you fill up, overly optimistic lol

 

[Int1968]

The spiralling environmental cost of our lithium battery addiction

As the world scrambles to replace fossil fuels with clean energy, the environmental impact of finding all the lithium required could become a major issue in its own right

www.wired.co.uk

 

[Int1968]

 

[ZiaHunter]

The top down drive by governments to convert to green energy by some target date as adopted by many states here in the US is bound to fail. Political decisions have been driven by environmental activists who don't care nor will for the most part feel the pain of the unintended consequences of these policies. I predict that they will hit the wall of reality in the coming years as targets are missed and the impact from both a cost and availability of power by shutting down nuclear, coal and gas turbines hits consumers.

New Mexico is stellar example of this stupidity. Under pressure from environmental groups, progressive's pushed through legislation committing the state to reach certain goals by 2030. In order to reach that goal the San Juan generating station was to be shut down in 2022 and replaced with solar and wind. Well the solar and wind is is plagued with cost and schedule overruns due to supply chain issues putting them into technical default.. The PRC denied PNM's request to build a gas turbine plant to provide peak demand needs. As a result one of the San Juan's generators will need to be kept online and the state is facing potential brownouts and buying expensive power from other sources. A complete dumpster fire.

 

[jff_stvns]

Don't overlook replacement cost and environmental hazards they will be.

I’m fully aware of all these things. Do you think there are no shortfalls of environmental impacts with the combustion engine to the environment as well ? Most all things created has a cause and effect equation. Again let me state I do not advocate full electric vehicle ideology in till some of the major problems are solved. But hybrid technology I think is a cool start and works well for the interim. There are some super cars that have hybrid power plants that are pretty impressive stats. Electric off the line instant power and when mid point combustion motor takes over, Gone !
Things I like about my hybrid, cheap to run, cv transmission is amazingly liner no shift points. I can switch mapping to combustion motor and electric motor off the line, bye bye you won’t expect it. Oh and when you realize it you won’t catch me if I don’t want you too.
Can run on gas alone, no need to charge if I don’t have power source. If I can plug in I will get over 100 miles per tank.
Its comfortable low and handles like a go cart with 17 inch rims over the stock 15’s, what’s not to like about this.
I am 58 years old I really don’t care what people think of me or what I drive, would I drive this car at 30-40 yrs old probably not, still wearing my ego on my sleeve.

 

[Californio]

You left out a couple.

Similar to the air starter, on the 4-53 Detroit Diesel located in the 97' schooner I sailed on, we had a hydraulic tank in the deep bilge that was pumped up by a 6' lever, squirt a little ether and hit the hydraulic starter, 99% of time she fired, if not pump up the tank and repeat, no batteries needed.

 

[jff_stvns]

Don't worry , we will get our laugh when you have to replace the batterys !

Yea, I’m at 100,000 and no battery replacement yet ! Guess you will have to keep waiting for you to have your laugh.

 

[brianf]

when they finally figure out the solid state battery things will change, thats the holy grail of battery tech

they are all trying to do it the last 10 years

 

[W54/XM-388]

View attachment 7966176

This is what I drive
40+ miles of range in all electric battery only mode
500+ miles of range in the gas tank
2WD / 4WD
Can tow 5000 pounds

I drive it like for maximum economy, but if needed it has a combined 455 hp and 523 lb-ft of torque and will get going pretty fast if needed.

What is interesting is the Electric motor has a lot of torque compared to the hp of it so you can pull away at a decent clip and accelerate pretty fast in all electric mode.

I'd be happier if it had a battery twice the size, but nobody seems to offer that in a plug in.
When they have the all electric replacement out that has a 500 mile range, in a couple years, I might look into it.

 

[jff_stvns]

This is what I drive
40+ miles of range in all electric battery only mode
500+ miles of range in the gas tank
2WD / 4WD
Can tow 5000 pounds

I drive it like for maximum economy, but if needed it has a combined 455 hp and 523 lb-ft of torque and will get going pretty fast if needed.

What is interesting is the Electric motor has a lot of torque compared to the hp of it so you can pull away at a decent clip and accelerate pretty fast in all electric mode.

I'd be happier if it had a battery twice the size, but nobody seems to offer that in a plug in.
When they have the all electric replacement out that has a 500 mile range, in a couple years, I might look into it.

View attachment 7966212

Holy shit, I think you just have stomped me on every front by far. That’s pretty bad ass I must admit, that’s some serious yank. Volvos are super nice cars. I would guess that ride comes in at least $ 50,000 or more, you get what you pay for. If you can charge at both ends of the commute that def adds to the economic factor of mileage. I was very surprised to hear the new all wheel drive rav 4 was in the over 300 hp in full power mode in there hybrid suv package, but they are not cheap either. Those number you have thrown up are 70’s muscle car numbers, what’s not to like about that. And the best part of it no one has a clue in till you just completely destroy them if need be. My next ride will be a suv but I will have to run my current car in the ground before that happens.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Just to add to the 'unique starting methods' of old vehicles/tractors/equipment, there's also the TD-9 that my uncle used to have.

Single engine block with a single set of pistons and crankshaft. BUT, the top-end had sliding 'rail' that diverted the 'intake' from port-set A to port-set B.

There were two levers up top, not unlike the 'dual controls' of twin-screw boats. Both the levers in the 'back' position was 'gas', and using the electric battery and starter, one would fire up this engine in 'gas' mode (for cold weather starts and such) to get everything moving and warming up.

After the necessary amount of time running in gas mode, those two levers were shifted/slid forward together, as the diesel fuel pump was now being engaged and as the 'intakes' are shifting over also, with the momentum of the engine 'hot and running' the whole unit would start running higher compression and on diesel fuel. Very old technology, but it was yet another manner in which they devised a method to get a high-torque diesel machine going 'in the bush' at very cold temperatures.

Sorta-like having that 'pup engine' built in.

My, how far we have come. Question is, where exactly did we get to, and where are we going?

 

[jff_stvns]

when they finally figure out the solid state battery things will change, thats the holy grail of battery tech

they are all trying to do it the last 10 years

Not to worry it will probably happen in 5 yrs, Toyota is all in on developing the the solid state battery technology as we speak.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Holy shit, I think you just have stomped me on every front by far. That’s pretty bad ass I must admit, that’s some serious yank. Volvos are super nice cars. I would guess that ride comes in at least $ 50,000 or more, you get what you pay for. If you can charge at both ends of the commute that def adds to the economic factor of mileage. I was very surprised to hear the new all wheel drive rav 4 was in the over 300 hp range in there hybrid suv package, but they are not cheap either.

It helped that at the time there was $10k worth of federal and state rebates available on the purchase.

I save about $2k per year in fuel costs over the 50mpg Honda Accord Hybrid that I was driving before it.

Some folks think the safety systems are over rated, but so far the automatic avoidance systems saved me from 2 highway accidents where crazy drivers seem just to have wanted to drive into somebody.
(It is pretty jarring each time because you are driving along and all of the sudden you find yourself in another spot as some crazy person just misses you, and the car shows a little message like: you're welcome, on the screen HA!).

The new EX90 looks to be very interesting, the new advanced Lidar is supposed to be really good at detecting things in the road which is a plague here, I mean you are driving down a 4 lane super highway and there will suddenly be like almost a whole truck tire worth of tread in the middle of the lane ahead or a full wooden pallet or like a big block of wood or a full ladder etc. Small boulders, and couches are some of the more scary things I've seen that got crashed into by others and pushed to the side.

It's also supposed to be able to find a spot, slow down and pull over and stop on the shoulder with the emergency lights flashing, if you have a medical emergency and pass out at the wheel or fall asleep.

When I was younger I drove a lot of cheap cars and have little creeks and small things that don't go as they used to, in my body to remind me of when folks smashed into me while I was driving those cheap light cars.

As you get older and realize you don't heal fast and sometimes things never are back to the way they were, you start being willing to pay a fair bit of money up front to protect yourself.

Plus as you get older, you start to value comfort and smooth driving when going on long trips or just your weekly 10 hours of driving.
When you are young it doesn't matter, but as you get old and creaky, you'll notice the difference a smooth quiet ride makes to how you feel at the end of the day / end of a trip.

One thing I will say is that IF you are the type that drives like an old person with your electric powertrain, you get totally spoiled by how quiet and perfectly smooth the acceleration and deceleration are once you know how to drive them for maximum smoothness. When the engine kicks on you are kind of almost like ugh...

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Chevy had the Volt, and from what I understand this is like our train discussion. The gas engine made power for the electric motor and that is what moved the car. Ok fine, why? In a train engine you want that torque that the electric motors give you, do I need that in a four door car? No. So why? Only thing I can come up with is feels good.

It is not on the farm, and it is not on a battlefield. It is not the solution for everything, not yet. And if you point this out you get called a racist.

Not on your farm. EXACTLY! My little piece of the country as well.

However, I would think that the Volt could have been better designed. They tried to make it a multi, with the gas engine running sometimes, the electric running sometimes and I suppose both running sometimes. The worst of every world.

IF, they had built a very efficient small engine, (diesel preferably) running at an optimal speed to keep the battery charged, and drive the vehicle with the electric motors, being a pure hybrid, in my humble estimation it would have worked and possibly been more efficient than just using a small diesel driving the vehicle though a multi-speed transmission.

But we have to have these on again off again on again off again internal combustion motors on sometimes and then let the electric run for a while until the multi-thousand pound rare earth battery runs down then we will run the IC engine again.

Finally thought. Driving along the interstate at the speed limit and being passed by those fuel saving hybrids at speeds probably as fast as they can go and I wonder just how much of our precious (hurricane racked if we don’t all go green) environment they are saving.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Just to add to the 'unique starting methods' of old vehicles/tractors/equipment, there's also the TD-9 that my uncle used to have.

Single engine block with a single set of pistons and crankshaft. BUT, the top-end had sliding 'rail' that diverted the 'intake' from port-set A to port-set B.

There were two levers up top, not unlike the 'dual controls' of twin-screw boats. Both the levers in the 'back' position was 'gas', and using the electric battery and starter, one would fire up this engine in 'gas' mode (for cold weather starts and such) to get everything moving and warming up.

After the necessary amount of time running in gas mode, those two levers were shifted/slid forward together, as the diesel fuel pump was now being engaged and as the 'intakes' are shifting over also, with the momentum of the engine 'hot and running' the whole unit would start running higher compression and on diesel fuel. Very old technology, but it was yet another manner in which they devised a method to get a high-torque diesel machine going 'in the bush' at very cold temperatures.

Sorta-like having that 'pup engine' built in.

My, how far we have come. Question is, where exactly did we get to, and where are we going?

One of my friends used to use a really old tractor down in South America that didn't have the starter working anymore.
So at the end of the day, drive it backwards up a big dirt ramp pile so in the morning you could let it roll down wide open, and then close the compression lever once you were at maximum speed at the bottom.

Oh and for those really cold winter mornings, a little hot coal pit dug in the ground under where the front end stood a couple feet above. Get a little bit charcoal started in there, let the block get warmed up just a touch then proceed.

 

[brianf]

Not to worry it will probably happen in 5 yrs, Toyota is all in on developing the the solid state battery technology as we speak.

China has been working on it for years.

When the Chinese company bought fisker the idea was to build on solid state batteries they said…” the first 95% is easy, the last 5% is unobtainable”.

One guy equated it to cold fusion research.

 

[jff_stvns]

It helped that at the time there was $10k worth of federal and state rebates available on the purchase.

I save about $2k per year in fuel costs over the 50mpg Honda Accord Hybrid that I was driving before it.

Some folks think the safety systems are over rated, but so far the automatic avoidance systems saved me from 2 highway accidents where crazy drivers seem just to have wanted to drive into somebody.
(It is pretty jarring each time because you are driving along and all of the sudden you find yourself in another spot as some crazy person just misses you, and the car shows a little message like: you're welcome, on the screen HA!).

The new EX90 looks to be very interesting, the new advanced Lidar is supposed to be really good at detecting things in the road which is a plague here, I mean you are driving down a 4 lane super highway and there will suddenly be like almost a whole truck tire worth of tread in the middle of the lane ahead or a full wooden pallet or like a big block of wood or a full ladder etc. Small boulders, and couches are some of the more scary things I've seen that got crashed into by others and pushed to the side.

It's also supposed to be able to find a spot, slow down and pull over and stop on the shoulder with the emergency lights flashing, if you have a medical emergency and pass out at the wheel or fall asleep.

When I was younger I drove a lot of cheap cars and have little creeks and small things that don't go as they used to, in my body to remind me of when folks smashed into me while I was driving those cheap light cars.

As you get older and realize you don't heal fast and sometimes things never are back to the way they were, you start being willing to pay a fair bit of money up front to protect yourself.

Plus as you get older, you start to value comfort and smooth driving when going on long trips or just your weekly 10 hours of driving.
When you are young it doesn't matter, but as you get old and creaky, you'll notice the difference a smooth quiet ride makes to how you feel at the end of the day / end of a trip.

One thing I will say is that IF you are the type that drives like an old person with your electric powertrain, you get totally spoiled by how quiet and perfectly smooth the acceleration and deceleration are once you know how to drive them for maximum smoothness. When the engine kicks on you are kind of almost like ugh...

Yes, I cannot agree with you more on every word that you have said on the smoothness and how liner the power delivery on full electric is, super nice. My car is the Prime advanced and I honestly turned most of the safety features off, way to intrusive. My car has some sort of radar lidar system because it will track a car at certain distance when in cruz control, 3 distance settings. But when all the systems are enabled it will lock it up for you and scare the shit out of you, lol. No can’t have that I turned that off and I will be the only one locking it up thank you. Now if I get to close a red light comes on with audible bell stop on dash to warn me of danger. Yes the older you get these little things are inviting, honestly saved me in many situations. Never believed in abs in till it kicked in and saved my ass once, sure believe in it now. And this is x 10 on a motorcycle.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I’d like to get a ev just so I don’t have to do maintenance anymore

 

[rtB]

When I was a kid I visited a town where everyone had electric vehicles. This was in the late 60s. The town was called Sun City, Arizona. It was paradise. Single family homes on respectable sized lots graciously surrounding a huge man made lake in the desert. Palm trees imported from somewhere lining the beautifully landscaped vistas. Large expanses of green where people ran around trying to find small white balls. Did I mention it was paradise? The electric vehicles were called golf carts. Everyone was retired, so no one was commuting to work. The grocery store and salon and hardware store were all right there, most everything a human needed was a mile or so away. Electric vehicles Golf carts worked really well for that particular environment. Alas - everyone ALSO owned a gas vehicle for when they needed to escape Sun City. Oops, the future is now, and sorry, you will not be allowed to escape Sun City. Signed, UberMiester Newsom.

 

[Numedal]

Bearing in mind that so far this year alone, I have replaced more defective traction motors and reduction gear/EV transmissions then I have ICE engines or transmissions over the last 10 years of full-time mechanicing, I don't subscribe to the "my EV is so reliable because so few moving parts" spiel

And the fact I currently have over 3 tonnes of battery packs (7 packs) waiting to be replaced, in addition to the 4 more tonnes (another 8-9) yet to be delivered, or the 10 or so I have replaced so far, due to the "hey these things keep spontaneously catching fire" recalls (Hyundai Kona and Ioniq EVs + Opel Ampera-e, equivalent to Chevy Bolt), I am hardly trusting of the batteries either. (The warranty price for these packs are about 38,000 USD each)

Yeah... Nah... Imma keep my diesel and old gas burners.

 

[jff_stvns]

Bearing in mind that so far this year alone, I have replaced more defective traction motors and reduction gear/EV transmissions then I have ICE engines or transmissions over the last 10 years of full-time mechanicing, I don't subscribe to the "my EV is so reliable because so few moving parts" spiel

And the fact I currently have over 3 tonnes of battery packs (7 packs) waiting to be replaced, in addition to the 4 more tonnes (another 8-9) yet to be delivered, or the 10 or so I have replaced so far, due to the "hey these things keep spontaneously catching fire" recalls (Hyundai Kona and Ioniq EVs + Opel Ampera-e, equivalent to Chevy Bolt), I am hardly trusting of the batteries either. (The warranty price for these packs are about 38,000 USD each)

Yeah... Nah... Imma keep my diesel and old gas burners.

So your telling me that that replacement battery cost is going to be $ 5,000.00 over my original vehicle msrp ? I’m calling BS, show me some invoices.

 

[jff_stvns]

Not direct oem factory, but who gives a fuck, who goes to dealer if they can get cheaper reman part. So I would be guessing factory oem would probably be about 5 to 7 grand ! And yes I would install my self how hard could it be. Have a mobil mechanic come out and reboot computer.

 

[jff_stvns]

So basically the battery replacement cost would be well under a newer GM truck transmission rebuild and let’s just say way under. 100,000 my battery is fine so far. I’ve heard of people getting over 200,000 miles out of there hybrids, time will tell. Not sure what the disposal cost would be or if you could recycle.

 

[Bacarrat]

Bearing in mind that so far this year alone, I have replaced more defective traction motors and reduction gear/EV transmissions then I have ICE engines or transmissions over the last 10 years of full-time mechanicing, I don't subscribe to the "my EV is so reliable because so few moving parts" spiel

And the fact I currently have over 3 tonnes of battery packs (7 packs) waiting to be replaced, in addition to the 4 more tonnes (another 8-9) yet to be delivered, or the 10 or so I have replaced so far, due to the "hey these things keep spontaneously catching fire" recalls (Hyundai Kona and Ioniq EVs + Opel Ampera-e, equivalent to Chevy Bolt), I am hardly trusting of the batteries either. (The warranty price for these packs are about 38,000 USD each)

Yeah... Nah... Imma keep my diesel and old gas burners.

I manage huge fleets of vehicles from Puerto Rico to Alaska, everything from a mower to semis, huge cranes and just about everything in between that doesn't fly and I would say EVs don't run into as many issues as petrol based vehicles. Do they have their fair share of problems? Yep, no denying that. But for the most part, it's rare I see one in for any kind of major repairs. Maintenance items like tires, wipers and the rare occasion brakes is what I see most often on EV's. Most of them have well over 100K miles on them too with very little repairs done to them.

 

[Snuby642]

There is not enough money to be made in selling replacement batteries.

The manufacturers will buy them all up to sell new vehicles.

There is limmited resources and production.

They have not even began to give you a good fucking yet.

 

[Bacarrat]

There is not enough money to be made in selling replacement batteries.

The manufacturers will buy them all up to sell new vehicles.

There is limmited resources and production.

They have not even began to give you a good fucking yet.

Elon has said multiple times that if anyone can figure out how to recycle EV batteries at scale, they would be a instant billionaire. There are a few companies and universities out there that are trying to crack this.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Just to add to the 'unique starting methods' of old vehicles/tractors/equipment, there's also the TD-9 that my uncle used to have.

Single engine block with a single set of pistons and crankshaft. BUT, the top-end had sliding 'rail' that diverted the 'intake' from port-set A to port-set B.

There were two levers up top, not unlike the 'dual controls' of twin-screw boats. Both the levers in the 'back' position was 'gas', and using the electric battery and starter, one would fire up this engine in 'gas' mode (for cold weather starts and such) to get everything moving and warming up.

After the necessary amount of time running in gas mode, those two levers were shifted/slid forward together, as the diesel fuel pump was now being engaged and as the 'intakes' are shifting over also, with the momentum of the engine 'hot and running' the whole unit would start running higher compression and on diesel fuel. Very old technology, but it was yet another manner in which they devised a method to get a high-torque diesel machine going 'in the bush' at very cold temperatures.

Sorta-like having that 'pup engine' built in.

My, how far we have come. Question is, where exactly did we get to, and where are we going?

I had a big old military air compressor, probably a 10,000 unit with a 6 cylinder engine that had that exact starting setup... Not exactly multi-fuel but had to keep gas and diesel on hand for that beast.

We are going towards a "Star trek Phaser" somewhere off in our future. Then we can retire the "batteries"

 

[lonegunman762x51]

Leftists love electric cars because they let your communist overlords decide who can drive and when they can drive. Thus far nearly every proposal for charging stations requires extreme government control of where they are and when they are opened. Next will be full control of who gets power based on a social score, just like communist China.

They let ICE engines and gasoline power happen before they thought of this control. Most electric shitbox cars are 100% computer controlled and report to communist controlled enters the entire time they are powered up, they record conversions, they record video in, out and around the car, they report location and phone numbers of your calls. All good for pending arrests for thought based crimes.

Are people really so fucking stupid? They will never be cheaper than ice engine cars to operate. They day they get control of refueling the price will climb 2500% . Only an idiot thinks otherwise.

 

[Im2bent]

So basically the battery replacement cost would be well under a newer GM truck transmission rebuild and let’s just say way under. 100,000 my battery is fine so far. I’ve heard of people getting over 200,000 miles out of there hybrids, time will tell. Not sure what the disposal cost would be or if you could recycle.

Our company had a first gen prius we used for courier work. it went for 385000 miles before the engine gave up the ghost.(2 cylinders had super low compression). It got 48 mpg no matter how you drove it. That car was amazing. Never broke down till it died.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Our company had a first gen prius we used for courier work. it went for 385000 miles before the engine gave up the ghost.(2 cylinders had super low compression). It got 48 mpg no matter how you drove it. That car was amazing. Never broke down till it died.

Sounds like 90 civic except it’s still going strong at 408k

 

[Snuby642]

Are people really so fucking stupid? They will never be cheaper than ice engine cars to operate.

What fucking rock do you live under?
Look in the white house and ask the question again.

The answer is yes.

 

[Int1968]

The lost tax revenues will have to come from somewhere.

How do state and local motor fuel taxes work?

www.urban.org

 

[fpgt72]

You are helping me make my point.... Thanks

All the way down to that tiny battery in your watch or hearing aid...

Dead battery = No Good

I was trying to. Back in the day of the machines I posted electric starters are just not able to get those motors up and going. One poster talked about Pony motors, this was very common back then.

Fun fact you know the ME262, the WWII german jet, if you look at the front of each engine you will see a little handle that slips into a groove that has been cut, that handle is a pull starter for the pony engines to get the jet engines turning. Many planes had external "plug ins" to give the plane power to start.

And for the record I hate watches with batteries, give me good ole mechanical automatics please, and my hearing aide eat a battery about every week, that gets expensive.

 

[fpgt72]

Many soviet tanks had air starters in WWII, why because the battery could just not do it in the winter.

 

[fpgt72]

I’m fully aware of all these things. Do you think there are no shortfalls of environmental impacts with the combustion engine to the environment as well ? Most all things created has a cause and effect equation. Again let me state I do not advocate full electric vehicle ideology in till some of the major problems are solved. But hybrid technology I think is a cool start and works well for the interim. There are some super cars that have hybrid power plants that are pretty impressive stats. Electric off the line instant power and when mid point combustion motor takes over, Gone !
Things I like about my hybrid, cheap to run, cv transmission is amazingly liner no shift points. I can switch mapping to combustion motor and electric motor off the line, bye bye you won’t expect it. Oh and when you realize it you won’t catch me if I don’t want you too.
Can run on gas alone, no need to charge if I don’t have power source. If I can plug in I will get over 100 miles per tank.
Its comfortable low and handles like a go cart with 17 inch rims over the stock 15’s, what’s not to like about this.
I am 58 years old I really don’t care what people think of me or what I drive, would I drive this car at 30-40 yrs old probably not, still wearing my ego on my sleeve.

Yes there are some cool tech out there, all F1 cars are hybrids. And there are a couple different designs....at least there was I have quit watching F1, it is going the way of NASCRAP.

 

[fpgt72]

The lost tax revenues will have to come from somewhere.

How do state and local motor fuel taxes work?

www.urban.org

You bet it will, they will tax something else.

Story time:

How many people have a home phone anymore? Answer not many. I will give you one guess where the money comes from for 911, and all the "stuffs" behind it. Taxes on phones.

Several years ago they really hit the wall, not enough money coming in, people are killing off the old olive green phone that hung in the kitchen with the long cord and just doing cell phones.

What to do what to do......Tax cell phones.

The money will come from somewhere.

And yea I know there are some on here that will have a cow over this and think everything related to this is bent.

 

[fpgt72]

Our company had a first gen prius we used for courier work. it went for 385000 miles before the engine gave up the ghost.(2 cylinders had super low compression). It got 48 mpg no matter how you drove it. That car was amazing. Never broke down till it died.

Years and years ago Top Gear did a thing on just this. Back when the first prius came out, it is a very interesting video, and also very true.

Story time:

In another life I raced sports cars, nothing super cool, SCCA amature road racing. I started in a class called I.T. Improved Touring. It was for "older" cars, only thing you could really do to the engine was a set of headers. Everything else was stock. Most cars you needed a fuel cell. Everything had a cage, it was a full on race car, but a little like showroom, but with older cars, and you can change SOME suspension stuff. I ran a 1st gen MR2. Little 4cyl toyota mid engined thing. Pretty popular in its day. Our races are roughly 30 minutes long. The MR2 is (as I remember) the only car that did not have to have a fuel cell, it is very well protected in that car, so I still had a fuel gauge. In 30 minutes I would use a half a tank of gas. Pushing that car as hard and fast as I could, it drank fuel like crazy. When it was a street car (IIRC the cars had to still be street legal, but most arrived on trailers) it would get high 20's for mpg. Your driving style has a great deal to do with it.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

<sarc> This whole "electric car" thing is a flash in the pan. Like the laptop computer will never replace the good old 3"x5" index card in a card file, it'll never effectively replace the good old gas guzzler...never *EvEr!* as the technology has peaked and met it's limits. Graphene, aluminum ion, iron ion and those battery technologies (yet undiscovered) where they don't need/use heavy/rare earth (and can recharge in minutes and carry multiple times the charge at a fraction of the weight) will never evolve to the point of practical deployment.

The current electric grid will *never* (ever!) expand to the point that we can meet the needs of recharging all these vehicles with solar, wind, and renewable energy. It can't be done - where do we get power when the sun goes down and the wind doesn't blow? They'll be burning coal. How green is that?

Never *eVeR!* - the whole electric car deal is a joke on those who have jumped early into this transportation technology as it's all gonna go away/fall apart and go back to burning fossil fuels. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dimwitted, moron, communist/socialist big government shill and Leftist dick licker. </sarc>

VooDoo

 

[jff_stvns]

I’d like to get a ev just so I don’t have to do maintenance anymore

If that’s the case it really does not need to be a ev car. Just buy a Toyota or Honda.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You bet it will, they will tax something else.

Story time:

How many people have a home phone anymore? Answer not many. I will give you one guess where the money comes from for 911, and all the "stuffs" behind it. Taxes on phones.

Several years ago they really hit the wall, not enough money coming in, people are killing off the old olive green phone that hung in the kitchen with the long cord and just doing cell phones.

What to do what to do......Tax cell phones.

The money will come from somewhere.

And yea I know there are some on here that will have a cow over this and think everything related to this is bent.

The 911 system isn't what drives the high taxes on all your phones and your cell phone lines.

Instead it's good old communism.

The government is forcibly taking money out of your pocket so they can be all magnanimous with your money and use it to by / bribe voters by giving "low income" aka welfare rats, free phones, free cellphones and free internet at your expense.
While of course making the richest of the rich who have their fingers in all those money troughs even richer.

Apparently people "deserve" to have a phone even if they don't want to work for it and apparently the working class "deserves" to pay for it as a reward for you know working hard and paying all the taxes.

 

[308pirate]

Wondering how the people with electric cars in Florida are feeling as their battery dies as they try to evacuate.View attachment 7965573

Well, since an electric car uses nearly zero energy when stopped compared to an idling engine; I don't know what your point is?

 

[Californio]

Well, since an electric car uses nearly zero energy when stopped compared to an idling engine; I don't know what your point is?

Not True, unless you turn off the climate control. My wife drives an electric car, great for her needs, it is fun, accelerates like a bat out of hell and the steering is tight, when she market shops and it is hot I can sit in the electric and quietly run climate control, it has AWD no need to get out and lock hubs. I drive my trusty Ford Excursion 7.3PSD that I bought new, now with 273K miles on the clock, standard fuel tank 44 gallons, I have a range of 600 miles at 80mph and 800 miles and 55mph, 2,000 rpm is the sweet spot. I can load it with stuff and see no difference in the milage. My buddy has two electric cars and no ICE, I think he is nuts, will always have an ICE backup that can go off highway with a load. My shooting range road is two miles of nasty dirt road, an electric would get beaten to hell.

When we go to the lake, dirt roads, exploring, camping etc., we always take mine, with all the fixit tools and a real spare tire, electric is great for civilization but I do not trust it in anything but a perfect environment.