Electric Trucks

[308pirate]

I'm probably going into lose my beater, commuter Fit to my daughter next fall semester when she moved out of the dorm.

Thinking a Chevy Bolt or something like it would work before my 70 mile daily round trip in rural highways with a home 240V charger.

 

[308pirate]

If you think about it, it makes sense. Not as a truck, but for robotaxis. People will no longer have to have a car and everything associated with having a car, like payments, gas, insurance and maintenance. If you normal joe just needs to get from point A to B, and all they have to do is pay a subscription service or per use basis. That's going to be huge.

This average Joe says fuck that.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Go big or go home...



Sirhr

 

[AngryKoala]

My criteria for buying an electric car

• 500 mile range
• Charge from barely 0 to 100% in 10 minutes
• Charging infrastructure with at least 75% of the coverage of current fuel

That an electric powertrain is superior to a reciprocating engine is a no brainer. If you don't think so, it's because you know shit from shinola about electric motors.

The choke points are battery (gas tank) and charging (gas pump) technology, not the powertrains.

Those problems will be solved. You're a complete fool if you think otherwise.

There's some lubrication related things that are still being worked out. Most of it has to deal with operating temperatures, speed and copper corrosion. The current testing equipment can't replicate the gear speed (makes qualifying lubricants and their additives more difficult). Manufacturers are still working on the optimal gear design. It will be a collective effort to get everything working over the next 10 years. Heat transfer and the relationship to viscosity along with fluid film thickness/performance. Esters and PAOs are being looked at, more than likely a low viscosity blend will be used.

 

[pmclaine]

My criteria for buying an electric car

• 500 mile range
• Charge from barely 0 to 100% in 10 minutes
• Charging infrastructure with at least 75% of the coverage of current fuel

That an electric powertrain is superior to a reciprocating engine is a no brainer. If you don't think so, it's because you know shit from shinola about electric motors.

The choke points are battery (gas tank) and charging (gas pump) technology, not the powertrains.

Those problems will be solved. You're a complete fool if you think otherwise.

Make a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric car and have the current fuel stations dispense hydrogen.

 

[Lapuapalooza]

Drill baby drill!

That video reminded me of cruise night in Anytiwn USA 40 years ago!

 

[...]

Make a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric car and have the current fuel stations dispense hydrogen.

we have people trying to fill garbage bags with gasoline while smoking.....im pretty sure your average populace is not smart enough to handle Hydrogen

 

[vh20]

Make a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric car and have the current fuel stations dispense hydrogen.

I’ve been saying this for years

 

[pmclaine]

we have people people trying to fill garbage bags with gasoline while smoking.....im pretty sure your average populace is not smart enough to handle Hydrogen

So now you want to step between Darwin and his theory?

 

[Sean the Nailer]

I dunno, I think ya'll are barking up the wrong tree. The navy has, for years, been using atomic energy to power their subs, and now aircraft carriers. All that technology can easily and simply be scaled down to power personal vehicles. It's all right there, what's the problem?

(remember, laws were passed about firing pins with barcodes in them) someone can think it, so therefore it must exist already, right?)

Can you imagine the 'fender-benders'?

--sarcasm font off now.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Idea...let us take a lesson and go back to horse and buggy.

 

[Halfnutz]

A Rivian plant is less than an hour from me, off of I74. Haven't seen one yet. A few acquaintances have kids that hired on, we had an inspector leave to go there. They are paying a decent wage from what I hear, $20+ an hour. I've heard Bezos dumped a bunch of money into them as well but thats hearsay, and I don't care either way.
The Rivian plant was formerly Mitsubishi, I would think if they don't start producing soon and selling, they won't last long.
I still view them as a curiosity.

Spoke with a guy recently that has a Volt.
Figures he's saved $1000 in fuel since April when he bought it, but paid $700+ for a 220v charging station to be installed at his home. (8 hour charge if empty).
His wife drives it to work as a nurse and is able to charge it at work for free. I don't expect that to last forever.

 

[missed]

Like others have said, the battery is the limiting condition at the moment. Current battery technology has gotten incrementally better in the last 10-15 years. It's still a long way away, lithium production and recycling is nasty. 100kwh big Tesla battery is actually only about 3 gallons of gas.

California is one that are fixing to fuck the homes and businesses that have solar and wind production. Almost 50 cents a kwh, that will be real nice charging your vehicle at 50 cents a kwh.

The motors are pretty damn awesome.

One other issue is look across the country at the power grid across the country. The infrastructure isn't close to being able to support the mass transition. That and coal is being phased out. Once coal is out, nuclear will be the only base load energy source with onsite fuel. The war on pipe lines, the challenges with enough gas production, weather and other external effects limiting power production. There were a bunch of generators that were ready to run during snow mageddon last winter that were not able due to low gas pressures.

 

[Rthur]

Where exactly is all the extra infrastructure/electrical production going to come from
for those high amperage charging stations/home chargers?

R

 

[plong]

Electric vehicles are about one thing only: to cripple the American economy! Well, make that two things, the other being to enrich China…

 

[missed]

Another challenge to the electric vehicles is where does the road use tax come from? Which is currently paid in gas tax.

 

[Flyinghunter]

Another challenge to the electric vehicles is where does the road use tax come from? Which is currently paid in gas tax.

Paying tax per mile. OTA allows them to track every mile, everywhere.

Everything You Need to Know About Vehicle Mileage Tax | Metromile

What is a mileage tax and how does the vehicle mileage tax work? Learn more about this pilot program and what you should know.

www.metromile.com

 

[308pirate]

There's some lubrication related things that are still being worked out. Most of it has to deal with operating temperatures, speed and copper corrosion. The current testing equipment can't replicate the gear speed (makes qualifying lubricants and their additives more difficult). Manufacturers are still working on the optimal gear design. It will be a collective effort to get everything working over the next 10 years. Heat transfer and the relationship to viscosity along with fluid film thickness/performance. Esters and PAOs are being looked at, more than likely a low viscosity blend will be used.

What are you talking about? Motors or gearboxes?

Copper corrosion? LOLWTF what? 99.9% of electric vehicles use PM rotors, not copper induction. Telsa tried and shelved it. I know because they came to us for the casting technology.

In any case, copper oxide is a stable compound like aluminum oxide.

 

[308pirate]

Electric vehicles are about one thing only: to cripple the American economy!

Explain that to me.

 

[308pirate]

Where exactly is all the extra infrastructure/electrical production going to come from
for those high amperage charging stations/home chargers?

R

Where did all the gas stations come from?

 

[308pirate]

Make a hydrogen fuel cell powered electric car and have the current fuel stations dispense hydrogen.

That will come when we master fusion

 

[Rthur]

Where did all the gas stations come from?

An order of magnitude easier than electrical production.

R

 

[Jefe's Dope]

An order of magnitude easier than electrical production.

R

Huh? Exploring, drilling, refining, transporting relatively unstable fuel is magnitudes harder than adding 220 volt plugs to existing gas stations or any other building that provides parking? Like the Walgreens by me that offers free charging for electric vehicles.

It's not hard at all. All it requires is additional 220 charging stations. All that requires is some $$$. There's no real tech advancement needed. Just an increase in electrical energy added to the existing system to handle the increased demand. Which is increasing regardless of electric cars or not.

And nuclear is clearly the answer for the increased demand. But that's another thread.

 

[plong]

Explain that to me.

Replace existing infrastructure with all new expensive, inefficient, new infrastructure, while at the same time severely limiting mobility for average Americans, while China, et al. carries on business as usual.

 

[Rthur]

Huh? Exploring, drilling, refining, transporting relatively unstable fuel is magnitudes harder than adding 220 volt plugs to existing gas stations or any other building that provides parking? Like the Walgreens by me that offers free charging for electric vehicles.

It's not hard at all. All it requires is additional 220 charging stations. All that requires is some $$$. There's no real tech advancement needed. Just an increase in electrical energy added to the existing system to handle the increased demand. Which is increasing regardless of electric cars or not.

And nuclear is clearly the answer for the increased demand. But that's another thread.

Make me a list of all the states adding nuclear production in the next 5-10 years.
The plug in is the easy part, where it's generated and how isn't.

R

 

[AngryKoala]

What are you talking about? Motors or gearboxes?

Copper corrosion? LOLWTF what? 99.9% of electric vehicles use PM rotors, not copper induction. Telsa tried and shelved it. I know because they came to us for the casting technology.

In any case, copper oxide is a stable compound like aluminum oxide.

Motor, mainly the bearing lubrication. The higher rpm range is going to create a unique challenge for lubricant designers.

Copper oxide is, copper sulfide is not (Sulfurized EP component in fluids). Currently part of OEM evaluations, especially in China.

Had to sit through a conference about EV, hybrids, hydrogen (green/not green) ect. There was a mechanical engineer from Timken that was discussing bearing design and how bearing type/angle would have to change to accommodate EV.

Then we discussed lubrication and challenges ahead and the lapse in products suitable for a pure EV application.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm probably going into lose my beater, commuter Fit to my daughter next fall semester when she moved out of the dorm.

Thinking a Chevy Bolt or something like it would work before my 70 mile daily round trip in rural highways with a home 240V charger.

I do an almost 90 mile round trip each work day.
You might want to check your electric rates first.

I ran the numbers and found that a really nice, well equipped Honda Accord Hybrid that could get an honest 50mpg in daily driving edged out the cost of an all electric vehicle and when you added in the extra cost of a decent range electric vehicle, it was the more cost effective choice.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable going all electric, however a plug in hybrid is a very interesting solution to the mix of daily driving and the need to sometimes take longer trips or if the power is out that evening.

 

[308pirate]

I do an almost 90 mile round trip each work day.
You might want to check your electric rates first.

I ran the numbers and found that a really nice, well equipped Honda Accord Hybrid that could get an honest 50mpg in daily driving edged out the cost of an all electric vehicle and when you added in the extra cost of a decent range electric vehicle, it was the more cost effective choice.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable going all electric, however a plug in hybrid is a very interesting solution to the mix of daily driving and the need to sometimes take longer trips or if the power is out that evening.

Good points

 

[308pirate]

Motor, mainly the bearing lubrication. The higher rpm range is going to create a unique challenge for lubricant designers.

Copper oxide is, copper sulfide is not (Sulfurized EP component in fluids). Currently part of OEM evaluations, especially in China.

Had to sit through a conference about EV, hybrids, hydrogen (green/not green) ect. There was a mechanical engineer from Timken that was discussing bearing design and how bearing type/angle would have to change to accommodate EV.

Then we discussed lubrication and challenges ahead and the lapse in products suitable for a pure EV application.

Have you guys learned nothing from aerospace? Parker Aerospace is one of my customers. Their motors are running in the 6 - 12K RPM range in severe conditions.

 

[308pirate]

Replace existing infrastructure with all new expensive, inefficient, new infrastructure, while at the same time severely limiting mobility for average Americans, while China, et al. carries on business as usual.

Forgive me if I don't believe any of that without more substantiation.

 

[308pirate]

An order of magnitude easier than electrical production.

R

So you're comparing the economics of adding a gas station to the economics of opening an electrical generating station?

Classic strawman.

 

[AngryKoala]

Have you guys learned nothing from aerospace? Parker Aerospace is one of my customers. Their motors are running in the 6 - 12K RPM range in severe conditions.

Yes, that is one of the industries being looked at. They developed a high rpm test rig that was used to study different bearing types. It definitely gave me an appreciation for mechanical engineers.

 

[plong]

Forgive me if I don't believe any of that without more substantiation.

Seriously… how bout 2 minutes fill up versus 2 hours to recharge or whatever… just for starters. Not to mention we have no where near enough generating capacity, and the tree-huggers are trying to take more off-line…

 

[308pirate]

Seriously… how bout 2 minutes fill up versus 2 hours to recharge or whatever… just for starters.

Do you think the state of the art today will be the state of the art 5 years from now?

Not to mention we have no where near enough generating capacity,

Can you put some numbers behind that for all to see? In my line of work, claims need to be validated with data.

 

[plong]

Do you think the state of the art today will be the state of the art 5 years from now?


Can you put some numbers behind that for all to see? In my line of work, claims need to be validated with data.

Do a little on your own if you don’t believe me… do you make batteries for a living…? Oh, nah, can’t be that, unless you’re posting from Chyna…

 

[AngryKoala]

Do a little on your own if you don’t believe me… do you make batteries for a living…? Oh, nah, can’t be that, unless you’re posting from Chyna…

One thing to consider is how many people will be charging from almost "empty" to full? I think most people would charge enough only to get themselves home so they can charge at home.

Infrastructure is an issue but it is not unsolvable. Power grid is another potential issue. There are a lot of concepts and proposals for hybrids, EV, hydrogen ect so the grid may not get hit as hard as proposed due to competing technologies.

Right now everything is speculative. Let's see what happens in the next 5, 10, 20 years.

 

[plong]

One thing to consider is how many people will be charging from almost "empty" to full? I think most people would charge enough only to get themselves home so they can charge at home.

Infrastructure is an issue but it is not unsolvable. Power grid is another potential issue. There are a lot of concepts and proposals for hybrids, EV, hydrogen ect so the grid may not get hit as hard as proposed due to competing technologies.

Right now everything is speculative. Let's see what happens in the next 5, 10, 20 years.

Or… we could just stay with (and continue to improve…) good ol’ internal combustion… give me one solid reason for the change to EVs, aside from sending even more money to Chyna… surely you aren’t going to invoke “saving the planet”…

 

[AngryKoala]

Or… we could just stay with (and continue to improve…) good ol’ internal combustion… give me one solid reason for the change to EVs, aside from sending even more money to Chyna… surely you aren’t going to invoke “saving the planet”…

I'm not saying EV is the only answer but an alternative that is more efficient would be welcomed. I argue efficiency, EV like most "green" alternatives requires the use of electricity (coal), mining of lithium (geological disruption) and hazardous non-renewable waste (batteries).

At some point an alternative will be needed. Looking towards the future isn't a bad thing.

You know you love that VOC free paint....lol

 

[plong]

…

You know you love that VOC free paint....lol

Case in point…

gotta admit: well targeted…

 

[Barelstroker]

That's what they said about going to the moon in 1940

They said plenty about it alright, they just never got there.

 

[nikonNUT]

Meanwhile at Chevy…

Site Maintenance

media.chevrolet.com

 

[pmclaine]

That will come when we master fusion

It exists.....

 

[pmclaine]

An order of magnitude easier than electrical production.

R

Not if we start digging and burning our over 300 year supply of coal, duh!

Let's split atoms not wood!

Wait, wut?

 

[pmclaine]

I do an almost 90 mile round trip each work day.
You might want to check your electric rates first.

I ran the numbers and found that a really nice, well equipped Honda Accord Hybrid that could get an honest 50mpg in daily driving edged out the cost of an all electric vehicle and when you added in the extra cost of a decent range electric vehicle, it was the more cost effective choice.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable going all electric, however a plug in hybrid is a very interesting solution to the mix of daily driving and the need to sometimes take longer trips or if the power is out that evening.

Good points

Got a new car issued in September, Explorer Hybrid.

Liked it.

Idling for long periods it would spend a lot of time sleeping. Riding a side road at twenty miles or less it would go to electric mode, all reverse was electric.

If it ran the same engine as its "non hybrid" option it had to be saving gas.

Only thing that sucked was the low range "rumble" that apparently has to be built into the design for some reason. I didn't fully listen when the issuing party was talking about why that has to be. Probably something so you don't leave it in your garage thinking it's turned off while sleeping and you carbon monoxide yourself to death.

The only negative in my case was that there was so much electrical to power in the driver compartment that I couldn't shut it down for those times I knew I would be away from it for long periods of time.

Along with the new hybrids came new tablet computers. The tablet computers only had a short life battery. The old Toughbooks could maintain a battery charge for 8 hours. With the tablet I had to leave the car powered on all day in order to ensure when I got in the car the computer would be charged. I am thinking whatever gas I saved driving in electric was going to be wasted having the car occasionally run the motor to idle because it was on for an entire shift while my old car would spend long periods not burning gas if I was in the office all day.

Govt can always find a way to fuck up its intended goal.

 

[308pirate]

Or… we could just stay with (and continue to improve…) good ol’ internal combustion… give me one solid reason for the change to EVs, aside from sending even more money to Chyna… surely you aren’t going to invoke “saving the planet”…

I'm not interested in looking back.

 

[308pirate]

Do a little on your own if you don’t believe me… do you make batteries for a living…? Oh, nah, can’t be that, unless you’re posting from Chyna…

Do you think the state of the art today will be the state of the art 5 years from now?

It's a simple question. Just needs a yes or no.

 

[plong]

Why do you think electric is the future, because AOC and Greta said so…?

 

[missed]

That will come when we master fusion

There have been a few steps closer on that in the last couple years ...

Some of the newer fission technologies are looking promising, especially with higher burn down rates. At least the fission is viable now.

 

[308pirate]

Why do you th electric is the future, because AOC and Greta sad so…?

I don't give a shit about them two. They are idiots. I don't listen to idiots.

Electrical energy can be made currently from energy sources that won't be exhausted for millenia and which create no CO2. The waste disposal issue isn't a technical one, but a political one.

In the very, very near future (<10 years) we will have on line nuclear fission reactors whose fuel is composed radically differently than what we do today. That difference increases the margin of safety by several orders of magnitude. Additional fundamental design changes increase the safety margin against catastrophic failure even more.

And once fusion is made practical, electricity is pretty much an inexhaustible resource.

 

[308pirate]

There have been a few steps closer on that in the last couple years ...

Some of the newer fission technologies are looking promising, especially with higher burn down rates. At least the fission is viable now.

TRISO fuel is a game changer when it comes to fission safety.