Hunting & Fishing Electronic dog collar training? Good/Bad? Suggestions?

Six Feet Under

Six Feet Under

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 19, 2010
446
6
Midwest Ohio
#1
Fellers,
I have a chocolate lab about a year old. She does real good training her on the leash. But when she is free, she knows it and won't listen sometimes.. Even with here favorite treats to try and get her back. If she gets on a scent or something she is gone.. She looks at me when I call her and says "F#$% YOU!"... I was thinking about getting a good electronic collar. One with sounds/vibration/ and shock. You guys ever have good luck with them at all? They are pretty expensive, but I am thinking they would be worth it.. ? Working alot and a newborn at the house, I don't have a whole lot of free time to constantly train her. I figured maybe the E Collar would help me out.. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.. Thanks

SFU
 
#2
Welcome to the world of Labs. It's almost genetic with them that once they hit that magic distance, they decide it's worth it to do their own thing, no matter how much they love you or listen to you "up close".

I'm an professional dog handler/trainer/kennel master currently working overseas (with a Stateside background in multiple dog training fields and LE K9 Handling), so take my opinion for what it's worth. An E-Collar has its place in training dogs, but WAY too often it's used as a shortcut. Every single Trainer I work with and supervise has their own opinion on how to use it, and they're convinced that every other Trainer is wrong. My advice to you would be to find a good Bird Dog trainer in your area and seek his help/guidance with the remote training collars. From what I've seen, the dog professionals in that particular field seem to have a solid, responsible approach and they deal with Labs/Retrievers, Pointers, and Spaniels so they understand the drives that Labs have and show you the proper way to use the collar.
The E-Collar, if used incorrectly, can cause MASSIVE problems in a dog and in many cases make matters much worse rather than better.

In my currentl field most of the guys don't like the Labs BECAUSE of issues like yours, because we're kind of spoiled on Shepherd breeds; but I had a background in Labs and Retrievers so I'll always love them, even though they can be a huge PITA and destroy a yard faster than gophers.

Good luck with it, the good news is that Labs tend to slow down around age 10 or so :)
 
#3
It is a very useful tool. As long as you dont look at it like Punishment for the dog and think you are going to Zap the Shit outta this Fucker for not listening to me. It should be a VERY RARE occasion when the dog actually Yelps when you hit the button. This level of intensity should only be used in the most extreme situations. Like stopping the dog from running out on the highway or breaking him off of chasing deer or killing the neighbors cat right in front of them haha.
As long as you use it properly and introduce the dog to it properly. Understand that the collar is just an invisible leash. A Nick from the collar should be interpreted by the dog as a tug on the leash.
When I got my first e-collar I strapped it to my leg to see what it feels like. Put it on the lowest setting and hit the Nick button. Turned it up slowly til it started to hurt. Just wanted to know what I would be doing to my dog.
When you first put it on the dog, just let him wear it for a while. Let him wear it when doing normal training but dont even turn it on, just let him get used to wearing it.
Turn it to the lowest setting and hit the Nick button. Watch the dog to see if you get any reaction. Bump up the intensity slowly until you get the slightest reaction from nicking the dog. This is your starting point.
You dont just drop the leash and start using the collar, you will Transition from the leash to the collar. You go from using a tug on the leash + command, to using a Nick + command. There is a lot more to it than that, but you should get the idea. Lots of good material out there on using the e-collar properly.
 
#5
As Bogey says welcome to the world of labs. Having said that, they are all different and yours will likely take its own path.

Ours did the same thing and it took us a fair amount of time to get him to listen. Every day for at least an hour for a year before he was reliable on the core commands.

If you cant afford that time or dont have a bunch of experience then I would go with the trainer route. Trainers have a degree of knowledge/experience/timing that comes from working dogs that most owners dont. If I were to do it over again I would pay the money to get the training started and make sure you attend classes as well so you learn not only 'what' to do but 'how' to do it.

Enjoy the journey
 
#6
bogeybrown said:
The E-Collar, if used incorrectly, can cause MASSIVE problems in a dog and in many cases make matters much worse rather than better.
Click to expand...


Reiterating the comments made above, I would NEVER use a electric collar while training my own dog. I don't think I have ever talked to a trainer who would recommend it wither. Too many issues arise with them, with the worst being, because its your dog, you "feel insulted" the second they don't listen, and you thus overreact. I feel you will have a better trained dog if you do it with patients and more patients. And trust me I am not an animal cruelty guy. My dog had her ass kicked plenty of times. That's the reason I am glad I never had a electric collar. I would def have "used it."

Find a good book and practice practice practice. I trained my first dog all by myself 3 yrs ago. I worked with her literally every day. A Chesapeake Bay Retriever, and although maybe twice the brains as a Lab (my opinion), its 10 times more hard headed. At 3 yrs of age, before I recently lost her, I had her to 10 hand signals, voice obviously, and was working on whistle commands. I don't show or do any comps with the dog, just a house/hunting dog. She could do a double retrieve, but not a blind one.

Don't be too disappointed if a 1yr old dog runs off. The important thing to do is to not put her in situations where she will fail. Setting up to fail is a bad place to be. If she runs when far away, don't let her get far away. A shock is only going to confuse her. Also, remember - training NEVER stops. if she don't listen when friends/strangers around, that's a sign she wont listen when you out hunting. Those situations also present good opportunities for training.

And WORK on the 5 basic commands all the time: Come, Sit, Stay, Heel, Down.
Others that I used that I really like are: Leave it, Back, Fetch, Drop, and the most important one that always amazes everyone - Get Busy! yes, you can teach your dog to pee/poop on command. Very useful on road trips, or if you know you will not have access to a bathroom area for awhile.

I also hate training with treats or clickers because you prob wont have them available when the dog is at her worst. When they do something well, give her lots of love/pos feedback (ear scratching etc). Train before feeding time, and use their dinner as a "reward" for the training session.

Anyways, once I find my fav book, Ill let ya know. Good luck and don't loose faith. ANY dog can be trained to be a well behaved dog. (well rat dogs don't count haha)

Regards,
DT
 
#7
I have the same problem with my new Akita.

A few weeks ago, I saw a Garmin announcement that they would be making a dog training collar that also provides GPS tracking to the owner/handler. I doubt it will be cheap, but I'm interested. I think it was supposed to come out towards the end of August.
 
#8
The electronic collar is a great tool if introduced correctly and not abused.
I compete with my labs at a National level. I have titled FC-AFC and competed in National Championships.
Feel free to send me a PM with your # if interested in discussing the e- collar
 
#9
Get a good caller from the get go. Get one with a tone or vibration, I use the tone on mine 500:1 over zapping a dog. Use it as a praise and you'll do fine. For me I use it in situations that i can't communicate a return command, but can still see them. Upon return, it's all praise. The only time i get after a dog is when they're getting into something that will harm them, and even then it's only enough to get their attention so they know it's not a good thing.

A collar as written above is not a be all end all, it's a tool. Be responsible with it and it'll pay dividends.

xdeano
 
#10
I used an electronic collar to train my lab. Every time she sees it she goes ape sh... because she knows it is time to "play." The correct setting is one that you can feel. It is not punishment for not doing what you are telling them to. It is a reminder that you are there. I progressed her from commands on a leash, to commands off of a leash, then to use of a check cord for remote commands. Not until she was proficient in taking remote commands without the check cord did I move to the e-collar. Then, the training started back at the beginning so she understood what that little tickle at the base of her throat was saying. Before I put the collar on her I check it on my own neck to make sure it is at the correct setting. Further, a cocked head is about the only response you should expect when you "light up" the collar. That being said, be very judicious with the use if you are training in water. That little tingle when dry will about paralyze a dog (momentarily) when they are wet. Of all the traing I did, I felt the check cord was the most violent to the dog.
 
#11
There are some good responses here! I want Annie to be able to run/ be a dog/ have fun, but listen. We live in the country and do not have a fenced in yard. The dog is smart as hell and full of piss and vinegar... I am limited on time.. There is alot to training a dog I know (or am finding out) .. Alot of psychology haha- I have checked on dog training classes and they are kinda far away and do not fit in our schedule at all.. You guys don't laugh, but I bought "Don Sullivan's- the perfect dog" video trainer system... She has done real well with it.. It's just when she is off the leash, she knows it... On the leash she is really good. Off the leash- not so good. When I try and work with her outside, it dont matter if I have dog treats, grilled chicken, beef jerky- if she wants to run, she is gone! And when she is running, everytime I call her name she stops, looks at me and keeps going. I just don't want here getting hit on the damn road or get bombed my a skunk etc... Seems like there is mixed opinions on here about the e collar. I have read on them some. IF I did get one it would have the tone/vibration option for sure.. One thing I would want to do for sure is not abuse the shock collar, use it right...
 
#12
Treat the E collar as an extension of the leash. You need to condition the dog to the collar and how to get out of trouble and make the correct response. You also need to know how and when to use the collar.
Some of the comments above are incorrect in regards to intensity used. It will depend on the type of dog you have. Some dogs require more intensity than others. The command needs to mean something In order for the dog to obey it. The key to the whole process is introducing the dog to collar conditioning correctly.
 
#13
To bluejazz's comment about intensity, he is correct. The intensity is based on the dog. Most good collars have a remote with at least 2 programmable intensity buttons. You can have one set for a light touch, then another set for a higher dose if the dog is not listening/ about to get into trouble.
 
#19
See what I meant about everyone having their own approach, and everyone above has been pretty much right with what they've told you.
I initially missed that this is a Chocolate. As beautiful as they are, of all the Labs they seem to run towards either really smart or REALLY dumb, but females tend to be more trainable overall.

As a rule I don't make specific training recommendations because each dog is a little different: I'm currently responsible for 8 Shepherd variants, and I use slightly different techniques with each of them, but fundamentally training comes down to consistency and marking behavior. See if you can find and online videos of "Clear Signals" dog training.

With this being a Lab, and a 1 yr old no less, it should have HUGE ball drive. Before you go to the E-Collar, do some work with a ball. When your Lab doesn't come back, a lot of what's going on is that whatever she's goign to do is more interesting than you are at the moment. Food reward is pretty much useless at that point. It has it's place in very specific situations, but Labs tend to pork up anyway, so I'd avoid it. Play to what makes her tick already: PLAY and PREY. She's a huge puppy that's genetically programmed to hunt and chase and retrieve, so use that. Get a reasonable assortment of quality squeaky toys: tugs, balls, etc (Kong makes' some good ones). Let her play with each of them and interact with her and the toy, tugging and throwing etc. She'll pick one of them as her favorite; use that one and she only gets that one when you're working with her and she doesn't get any other squeaky toy to play with without earning it. I like balls with a rope attached because you can be more animated/interactive with them, tug toys also work well also: I'm currently using tugs to build obedience during bite-training.

Put her in a down or stay or whatever she does and walk a short distance away. Tell her to "come", when she comes to you start squeaking the toy and reward her with it and make her feel like she's the greatest thing in the world. You are "marking" her behavior of coming to you by giving her her toy. Do this consistently. Increase the distance gradually. If need be you can use a long line (30ft nylon leash) and use it to reinforce the "come" if she gets distracted at a farther distance. You can tie these together to increase distance and it allows you to maintain control so that IF she breaks to go do something else you can stop her and recall her.

What you're shooting for is that coming to you is a fun thing and represents play time; hopefully more fun that running off. I say to use a squeaky toy because it plays on her prey drive and it allows you to use it as a "cue" also. When she's off at that magic distance where she gets disobedient, you can squeak the toy as you're telling her to come back and swing it around and get all excited and (hopefully) convince her that it's going to be more fun to come back.

Where every single one of us has screwed up, is when the dog runs off and we get PISSED and can't do anything about it so when they finally come back (what we wanted them to do) we take out our frustration and get in their ass. As good as this feels to US, it confuses the hell out of the dog because they came back to dad and got their ass handed to them.

The joke among dog trainers is that the only thing they agree on is that all the other dog trainers are wrong. In reality it's not that the others are wrong, it's just that most of them are right in their own way and have their own approach. You've gotten some GREAT guidance from the other members, take what you think is going to work and see what happens.
 
#20
I have two labs a yellow and black. They have completely opposite attitudes. The black one is 10 never chewed up any thing spent a lot of time in the house with me before I was married and calmest lab I have ever owned. The yellow who is 3 is a terror let him in the back yard and he will chew every thing he can get his mouth on dig holes. I guide pheasant hunters many days all fall and you would think from the behavior in the yard the yellow one would run wild and crazy and black dog would be the one not to worry about. Just the opposite I think I have used the correction once on the yellow all he needs to here is the beep and he knows to stop what ever he is doing. I think the black one thinks he has done this so much he doesn't need to listen he takes a lot more correction at times. But they both go ape shit crazy when they see the collars come out as they know we are doing some thing fun be it swimming at the lake or hunting. It goes to show they all have their own personallitys when it comes to training.
 
#21
bogeybrown said:
See what I meant about everyone having their own approach, and everyone above has been pretty much right with what they've told you.
I initially missed that this is a Chocolate. As beautiful as they are, of all the Labs they seem to run towards either really smart or REALLY dumb, but females tend to be more trainable overall.

As a rule I don't make specific training recommendations because each dog is a little different: I'm currently responsible for 8 Shepherd variants, and I use slightly different techniques with each of them, but fundamentally training comes down to consistency and marking behavior. See if you can find and online videos of "Clear Signals" dog training.

With this being a Lab, and a 1 yr old no less, it should have HUGE ball drive. Before you go to the E-Collar, do some work with a ball. When your Lab doesn't come back, a lot of what's going on is that whatever she's goign to do is more interesting than you are at the moment. Food reward is pretty much useless at that point. It has it's place in very specific situations, but Labs tend to pork up anyway, so I'd avoid it. Play to what makes her tick already: PLAY and PREY. She's a huge puppy that's genetically programmed to hunt and chase and retrieve, so use that. Get a reasonable assortment of quality squeaky toys: tugs, balls, etc (Kong makes' some good ones). Let her play with each of them and interact with her and the toy, tugging and throwing etc. She'll pick one of them as her favorite; use that one and she only gets that one when you're working with her and she doesn't get any other squeaky toy to play with without earning it. I like balls with a rope attached because you can be more animated/interactive with them, tug toys also work well also: I'm currently using tugs to build obedience during bite-training.

Put her in a down or stay or whatever she does and walk a short distance away. Tell her to "come", when she comes to you start squeaking the toy and reward her with it and make her feel like she's the greatest thing in the world. You are "marking" her behavior of coming to you by giving her her toy. Do this consistently. Increase the distance gradually. If need be you can use a long line (30ft nylon leash) and use it to reinforce the "come" if she gets distracted at a farther distance. You can tie these together to increase distance and it allows you to maintain control so that IF she breaks to go do something else you can stop her and recall her.

What you're shooting for is that coming to you is a fun thing and represents play time; hopefully more fun that running off. I say to use a squeaky toy because it plays on her prey drive and it allows you to use it as a "cue" also. When she's off at that magic distance where she gets disobedient, you can squeak the toy as you're telling her to come back and swing it around and get all excited and (hopefully) convince her that it's going to be more fun to come back.

Where every single one of us has screwed up, is when the dog runs off and we get PISSED and can't do anything about it so when they finally come back (what we wanted them to do) we take out our frustration and get in their ass. As good as this feels to US, it confuses the hell out of the dog because they came back to dad and got their ass handed to them.

The joke among dog trainers is that the only thing they agree on is that all the other dog trainers are wrong. In reality it's not that the others are wrong, it's just that most of them are right in their own way and have their own approach. You've gotten some GREAT guidance from the other members, take what you think is going to work and see what happens.
Click to expand...
I would disagree with this type of training. It might work if you are trying to teach a command the dog does not already know,but to try and enforce a known command it wont work.You are still rewarding the dog for doing what it wants or chooses to do. It wants the toy, so it comes back to you. What happens when the novelty of the toy wears off and the dog chooses not to behave the command. You have no tool to correct the dogs behavior.
The dog needs to be collar conditioned and commands need to be reinforced with the collar. The command needs to have meaning and you need the tools to enforce it.
 
#22
I play with her all the time... She loves to play fetch with a passion.. Her favorite toy is a stick lol. I have bought all kinds of shit and she always drops whatever I bought and gets a stick. The other day when I was working with her off the leash, she went to take a piss.. When she was going potty, I could see her start to sniff the air and I knew she was on something. Next thing I know she is 500 yards away.. Every time I called her she would look back and flip me off. The only way I could get her back was to wave a big throwing stick we have and yell " stick, get your stick".. She knows what that means.. I got lucky and she came running back. I didn't punish her because I blame it on me for not knowing what the hell I am doing. Sounds like I need to keep working with her. Make time. She is very smart dog, she just needs me to work with her more. I was just wanting a way to correct her off the leash.
 
#23
you can do a little bit with a collar or as much as you can imagine. I have seen dogs trained by fred hassen and seen him work with them as he trains people to use the collar. It works for any dog, any situation. You are the variable. Use it properly and it works well. Use it poorly and it punishes the dog for anything or everything and the dog hates it. It does allow you to train the dog quicker than other methods. It is a powerful tool, if it is used wrong it makes a powerful impression. Used correctly it can guide the dog to excellent behavior.

see if there are any "sit means sit" trained affiliates in your area. I'm not an affiliate and in fact only took one training seminar, but I thought it was better than sliced bread.
 
#24
E-collar was the best dog investment I've made...haven't read much for previous posts so I apologize if I repeat anything already said. I have a lab/pointer mix who I've trained to be one of the best bird dogs I've ever seen. I'm not a professional trainer but I did hire one who helped training Harlem (my pup). I'm not in the same state as my dog or his training/hunting collar (or I would tell you which I have) but it has a vibration button, a negative nic function, and a negative continuous function. Training your pup will be most effective in 15 minute sessions (fortunately for me, my dog's and my attention span are the same). 1-3 times per day, as consistent and often as possible... basic dog training is "operant conditioning." Your dog will only be as good as you are consistent with training.

The purpose of your collar/remote is to first and foremost extend your range of positive reinforcement... If you use the shock function and/or use too much stimulation early on in training, you can just short of ruin your dog and it will take a long time to regain that dog's trust. For the first month (possible sooner but err on the side of caution) of having the e-collar, you are not to use the shock/negative function. My goal was to have Harlem associate the vibration (or tone as some collars have) function as positive reinforcement. I had him wear his collar all the time, except when he slept. Every single time I said the word "good" to him, I made sure to push the vibrate button. The first few times, it helped to feed him treats while praising/petting and pushing the vibrate/tone button until he associated that vibration/tone as doing something correctly (ie positive reinforcement). This association (vibration/tone, good) is passive training and if done correctly will positively stimulate focus. Use the treats as long as necessary and slowly wane off...

(dog's name) Come... check cord will be necessary to get this one home...
(dog's name) Come around (hunting command)
(dog's name) Sit
(dog's name) Down
(dog's name) x

Whatever command you give, give it the same every time...

When command is correctly executed, "good (dog's name)" (with good tone of voice and vibrate/tone button). When command not executed, "no", "that is unacceptable", "bad" (do not say name, use negative but not hurtful tone, no negative e-stimulation for 1-2 months). It is very important to keep frustration out of your voice, that will only serve to scare dog and not encourage dog to come. Feel free to use your google-fu on the proper use of check cords. Sounds like that will be helpful to you as well. Consistency here is very important.

When you finally progress to nic/continuous functions... use as little "stimulation" as your dog responds to. The only time I use the continuous function is when hunting, precisely when he starts hunting on his own out of range and won't respond to whistle/verbal come command. It happens almost never. Proper use of a check cord will solve quite a bit of your issues in this regard, you may decide you don't even need an e-collar. I only use the nic command on long walks while working on heel to give little "pushes" to Harlem's position walking with me...dog training is a constant process that never really stops... Again, it is all about consistency of commands, and consistency of reinforcement.

I know this is a lot to take in. I hope it helps.
 
#25
If I wasn't clear, I am not opposed to the E-Collar when properly utilized. EVERY dog is different, there are certain breed characteristics, but what works for 9 Labs won't be the right answer for Lab #10. Because of the risk of "damage" I recommended the toy system to start with, because in general the LEAST amount of compulsion is generally preferred.

From the situation you described with her coming back for her stick, it sounds as though the toy/reward method is worth giving it a shot. I use that same basic premise with dogs that are VERY highly trained when they elect to disobey a known command, there's a process and varying levels of compulsion required sometimes, but it works.

An E-Collar can be tied in if needed as a "reminder" or "attention getter" starting with the audible setting. Inifinity offered some fantastic tips for the collar and it's use as positive rather than negative reinforcement. As several people have said, it can be a great tool (if properly instructed). The biggest fundamental with dogs is to be FAIR. If you mark their bad behavior by getting in their ass, then you need to mark their good behavior with praise and reward.

You have to be important to the dog. If they accept you as the boss and provider then they will WANT to do what you want. If you're just the guy who kicks their ass, then you'll end up with avoidance and conflict.
 
#27
I always say an E collar is a reinforcement tool.

Not a training tool.


Treat it as an extension of your training lead.


It should not be used to teach new commands


Dokken makes an excellent book. Luckily 20 minutes a day is all you really need to get a good dog.
 
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#29
Tritronics as well, best quality on the market. Don't abuse collar. Always quit when you are mad. Teach all commands another way with positive , treats, or negative reinforcement when dog doesn't do what their supposed too . Then introduce the collar and reinforce with it. Start on light and move up from there. It's a great tool if used correctly . The dog has to know what it's getting shocked for. Use a dummy collar as well during training and hunting . Some dogs get collar wise and only obey with it on. Use it sparingly as possible! My experiences are 30 years using them with a kennel full of birddogs.
 
#30
rrflyer said:
It should not be used to teach new commands


Luckily 20 minutes a day is all you really need to get a good dog.
Click to expand...

Agreed. 15-20 minutes a day is all it takes. Don't expect too much too soon. Every dog is different. Consistency is key and never give a command you can't enforce. Say it once, say it twice, then enforce the command in an appropriate manner. Labs are great dogs, but the chocolates are a little bit crazy! Mine is 12 1/2 now and happy sleeping on the porch...
 
#32
I ended up ordering a Tri tronics 70 model. I was looking at a cheaper model, then was advised against it. I am going to watch videos and read a bunch on it because I do want to use it correctly. I have a guy on here that's gonna help me out with training questions too.. I will follow up and let you guys know how she is doing. It sounds like it will be a helpful tool in my case. (or hope it is)
 
#34
Six Feet Under said:
I ended up ordering a Tri tronics 70 model. I was looking at a cheaper model, then was advised against it. I am going to watch videos and read a bunch on it because I do want to use it correctly. I have a guy on here that's gonna help me out with training questions too.. I will follow up and let you guys know how she is doing. It sounds like it will be a helpful tool in my case. (or hope it is)
Click to expand...

make sure to fill out your warranty card on that we used to run the tritronics at the lodge i work at and they were tough to deal with especially if you did not have the paper work done. Now its dogtra and sport dog.
 
#35
you have gotten a lot of different responses here, I will say that if you look at success, sit means sit has got it, and they have it for a reason- the training works.

Many of the suggestions in this thread are directly opposite or not the way they train at sit means sit. There is a reason when people ask " what smith should I have make my tactical competition rifle" people will say "gap, moon, gradous, etc etc not leaving any top names out on purpose blh blah". Success is there for a reason.

Check and see if there is a "sit means sit" trainer near you. they don't give a rip in you have a lab, chocolate on top. They train dogs, and whether it is a malinois, "pit x " or doodlenauzer they all end up doing it the same, to different degrees. Look for trainers that can train schutzund, obedience, rally, hunting, whatever/ any dog sport you want, not necessarily one that is stuck in a certain genre.

tell me your dog will sit at 100 yards away when you tell him, while some kid is throwing a stick for he dog and I'll tell you he is well trained. How you get there is up to you, but that is the essence of "sit means sit". it means anywhere, not to some degree.
 
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#36
I've used an E collar on every dog I've had the pleasure of owning and training.They all have a locator option,as I hunt in very thick cover sometimes and want to know where my dog is.
After the initial puppy stage,I've hardly ever used the shock option.
I would suggest you go to a trainer who uses a collar to "help" in training his dogs,and see how it's done.
I had an english pointing lab from field trial stock.He was a great hunter,as long as you let him run a half mile away and back before going into the field.
You could put the collar on 20 and he wouldn't even flinch while he was doing his warm up.He was a perfect hunting companion afterwards.
He trained me more than I trained him at times.
Good Luck this season,and hopefully you'll come to an understanding with your dog and all will work out in the end.
 
#37
timjoebobbradley said:
you have gotten a lot of different responses here, I will say that if you look at success, sit means sit has got it, and they have it for a reason- the training works.

Many of the suggestions in this thread are directly opposite or not the way they train at sit means sit. There is a reason when people ask " what smith should I have make my tactical competition rifle" people will say "gap, moon, gradous, etc etc not leaving any top names out on purpose blh blah". Success is there for a reason.

Check and see if there is a "sit means sit" trainer near you. they don't give a rip in you have a lab, chocolate on top. They train dogs, and whether it is a malinois, "pit x " or doodlenauzer they all end up doing it the same, to different degrees. Look for trainers that can train schutzund, obedience, rally, hunting, whatever/ any dog sport you want, not necessarily one that is stuck in a certain genre.

tell me your dog will sit at 100 yards away when you tell him, while some kid is throwing a stick for he dog and I'll tell you he is well trained. How you get there is up to you, but that is the essence of "sit means sit". it means anywhere, not to some degree.
Click to expand...

Are you a sms trainer or have you used them? Does the training work without the collar?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
 
#38
as I said earlier, I am not a trainer, affiliate, have any financial dealings with them other than I took a class 8 or so years ago and during those two days we trained our dogs to learn 4-8 new behaviors so that they knew the verbal command and would do it with the collar on during those two days. When you go home you continue training and proofing the dog, you can train them to not need the collar over the next few weeks but they do their best behavior when on the collar, yes.

show me another training method that you can have the dog know what you are asking them for new behaviours in two days for multiple behaviours. the food oriented all positive trainers take weeks to link that together. they are the ones I see at dog parks where the dog doesn't do anything they say once the are 30 feet away.
 
#40
I have a 1.5 yr old female boxer lab mix that is now completely trained by voice, beep, and hand signals at any distance I've worked her at. At 1yr old she was giving me some kick back and at my wits end I resorted to getting a collar to curb some unwanted digging and counter surfing behaviors. I tried everything for the counter surfing but two tame shots with the collar and she has not stolen for again. I've only yelped her once for chasing deer afield. At this point I keep her collar on when in the woods and only use the tone. When I tone her she stops sits and makes eye contact with me where hand signals take over. She is an amazingly quick learner right now and loves to"work" for me. Sit, stay, heel, come,plotz, eyes, get busy, trash (carries an item to the garbage can... This was tough after scolding her so hard for getting food out of the trash), stalk, and tree are all zero fail commands now. She is great at running rabbits(sight hunts "eyes" them usually but I tell her"stalk"and point to brush piles and she sneaks in and rushes the rabbit) and squirrels (again sight hunt and she will stop and point them until I say "tree" then she is balls out until the squak is in a tree). Hoping to get her finding birds and holding up before she flushes them next. Without the e-collar I don't think she would be where she is now at such a young and still playful age. For a family dog who is extremely forgiving with my boys she is really turning into a fun dog when walking with a bang stick.
 
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#41
I bird hunt close to 50 days a year with my WPG and on most hunts I never touch the remote. But there have been times I was glad to have it for his safety, and that makes it worth it to me. Snakes, roads and passing boats combined with him ignoring commands meant I zapped him and likely kept him from harm's way.

Learn how to use one. The golden rule I was taught is simple: Don't use the collar to punish, use the collar only when the dog disobeys a direct command. This teaches the dog to always listen and respect commands. Shocking a dog for doing something wrong like breaking point (without a verbal whoa command) or pulverizing a bird will lead to bad consequences as they simply don't always put 2 and 2 together.
 
#42
Dog&Jeep said:
I have the same problem with my new Akita.

A few weeks ago, I saw a Garmin announcement that they would be making a dog training collar that also provides GPS tracking to the owner/handler. I doubt it will be cheap, but I'm interested. I think it was supposed to come out towards the end of August.
Click to expand...

I think you are talking about the Garmin Alpha 100. It is a Garmin GPS Unit coupled with a Tri-Tronics training collar. It has a range of 9 miles depending on terrain, ability to track up to 20 dogs and is a full featured training collar. It retails for $799.95. I just got one so I can keep up with the goofball while I am in Wyoming later in the year. I have not used it yet for training but the GPS feature works quite well. One neat thing about the unit is it has the ability to set up a defined area for the dog similar to an invisible fence. I will update this after I have spent some more time with it.
 
#43
Longtime Pro Trainer here. (Switched careers a while back, but still own a percentage of the business and it's still going strong)

It is quick and easy to train a dog to a basic level using any number of methods, as long as you use the one that works best for YOUR dog. A real competent trainer is one who can read a dog within five minutes or so and put you in the right gear for your dog. The techniques are pretty much the same (Reward what you like instantly and consistently, correct what you don't instantly and consistently, and work with your dog's drives).

It is the tools or specifics that change per dog. Some dogs do well on e-collars (most of them) and some dogs do best with a drive reward. Some dogs like balls, some like tugs. Some are food motivated, some are not. Some do well with a pinch collar, some with a choke, some with a flat collar. Most dogs do best with a combination of things. Like any other activity, you can do it yourself, re-invent the wheel, learn a lot, and either figure out you like doing it and are successful and want to do it again, or you'll figure out that a real pro can do it in 1/4 the time and you'd rather pay them to do it for you. Either way works.

What DOESN'T work is to fail to use the tools you have properly. It's my experience that most 'problems' stem from training errors, not choice of wrong equipment.

With that said, ecollars work great on 90-95% of the dogs I've worked with, IF you use it right. Someone mentioned Fred Hassen (Sit means Sit). He's a good example of a guy who can prove his skills by showing you a demo dog. Unless someone can show you a fully trained dog they've produced, I wouldn't listen to them at all. And like someone said above, trained means trained. Sit means sit, first time, every time, no matter what distraction. Anything less means the dog is not trained.

This is Zorba. He likes his work :D He's not mine, but without that ecollar he'd tell you to go $%#@ yourself.
132591_1699204753026_5866521_o.jpg


*Edit. We use only Dogtra collars. Reliable, rugged, and GREAT customer service. The 1900 is the model we use on most dogs.
 
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#44
I have 2 labs both HRCH's and one is a MH. I've had great luck with the Sport Dog Wetland hunter. Great range, waterproof and great customer service. Also check out bumper boy remote launchers if you are looking for a way to train your dog on long retrieves.
 
#45
Quick story...

A few years ago we were hunting a very prestigious Quail plantation in South Georgia. During the morning hunt, the dogs started to wander as the morning went on. Shocks from the collar on full blast didn't seem to phase some dogs. After lunch, the dogs that gave us problems in the morning had their collars relocated around their waist with the prongs up. Not a single dog had to be shocked that afternoon.
 
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