Eliseo Tube Gun Action - Pierce or Defiance? Need advice.

[Jayman_10X]

Ok, title says it all. Looking at doing a build off Gary Eliseo's tube gun chassis - RTS Varmint Model. I want either the Defiance 'Mutant' action or Pierce tube gun action, on a HV Bartlein contour chambered in 6mm BR Norma, no turn neck. Please share any experiences you may have. Interested in learning any advantages of one over the other.

Primary use will be benchrest, target shooting.

Thank you in advance.


Jay

 

[Jon Lester]

Accurate Ordnance does a lot of work with Gary's stocks. They glued an old 700 action I had in one with a Brux tube chambered in 6 Creedmore and it would be impossible to make things better than they did. The rifle was for my Daughter as match gun and after load development, I sent one of my 308s for a rec amber/rebarrel. After running hers in a match myself, I wish I had the Eleiso as well. This setup is a bench rest quality rifle.

 

[scotharr]

Borden and Defiance make great tubegun actions. Nice thing about Borden is he is very particular about timing the trigger to the action.

 

[toddconley]

If it makes any difference the long action tube gun action from Pierce is made to fit in the Elisio. There is no bolt stop or scope mounting holes. I love my tube gun but if you didn't like it you would have no choice of other stocks. Also FYI if you get the RTM from Gary you can put either bottom on it. Which mean short or long action detachable mags depending on the caliber you choose to chamber it in. It requires the long action. I can send u detailed pics if u need them. The Pierce is a top shelf action i will own another.
T

 

[SSG3K]

Pierce long action myself and a few others were the first to use this setup for 243, 300wm, and 338 lapua. I would go medium palma myself for weight savings. If you run a schmidt bender dont forget to cut the pic rail down to get the right eye relief.

Rich

 

[Rabbitz]

Just got a Rtm build back from PCR and I used a Defiance Mutant, wouldn't change a thing. Action feels like its on ball bearings. My vote is for Defiance.

 

[BookHound]

We've built with both actions and I can't see a performance difference one way or the other. We've built more Eliseo chassis with Pierce than the Defiance and they all performed exceptionally well. One of the rifles has been used to rack up quite a few F-Class records.





Mark

 

[awp762]

Pierce short action built by Pierce in 6mmXC in an RTS tactical. 28" Bartlein HV varmint contour.

I also have another pierce short action coned bolt in 6mmBR (AICS stock) that feeds perfectly from AICS 5 round 308 magazines w/o any mods to the magazine.

 

[Coltster]

We've built with both actions and I can't see a performance difference one way or the other. We've built more Eliseo chassis with Pierce than the Defiance and they all performed exceptionally well. One of the rifles has been used to rack up quite a few F-Class records.





Mark

I have a 6.5CM RTS with Defiance Mutant, I'm not exactly thrilled with how it feeds from AI/AW Mags. It does function but not smooth or easy and unless you run the bolt perfectly straight it tends to catch or bind if you will, rapid bolt is challenging to say the least. Have you ran into this before with the Mutant? Recommendations? Shooting factory Hornady 140Amax....Love the RTS just trying to figure out what's up with the action.

 

[SFree]

VERY seriously considering selling my MCS-TA mini chassis to fund a tube chassis by Mr. Eliseo! Can't take my eye off the stinkin things, adjustments galore and being able to run the bolt UNDER your face instead of straight back is to me, a huge advantage.
Any dislikes?

 

[Triggerf16]

I run an RTS with a trued Remington Action and an RTM with a Defiance Mutant action. Great rifles, great stocks! I like the Mutant very much.

 

[PatrickChewing]

Mines not built yet but I already have the Mutant and the stock should be here in the next 2 or 3 weeks. I went throughout the same decision process and I really didn't find a definitive reason to choose one over the other. I think you will be happy with either.

Coltster, wasn't super happy to read you were having trouble. Mine is going to be a 6.5 Creed and I plan to run AW mags. Keep me/us updated if you find any info on what's going on.

 

[leadbullet]

A good buddy of mine has an Eliseo chassis with the pierce tube gun action, chambered in 243 Ai, that damn thing is a hammer and very smooth to operate.

 

[Coltster]

Mines not built yet but I already have the Mutant and the stock should be here in the next 2 or 3 weeks. I went throughout the same decision process and I really didn't find a definitive reason to choose one over the other. I think you will be happy with either.

Coltster, wasn't super happy to read you were having trouble. Mine is going to be a 6.5 Creed and I plan to run AW mags. Keep me/us updated if you find any info on what's going on.

It won't get looked at until probably late November, but will let you know regardless.

 

[steve123]

I have a question for you guys with tube guns.

Do you have custom made radial recoil lugs, regular type after market lugs or integral recoil lug on the action?

Thanks

 

[Jon Lester]

Eliseo disk and Glued in 700 rem for me. It's a hammer!

 

[steve123]

Eliseo disk and Glued in 700 rem for me. It's a hammer!

Thanks Jon, that might solve my problem!

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Its really a toss up. I've never played with a Defiance but have shot a pierce on many occasions. Very smooth action and will be a faster turnaround. However the Defiance you can run AW mags while the Pierce is strictly unable. Doubt you could go wrong either way.

 

[daxromana]

I have a pierce long action in an RTM. Mr. Pierce ground me a completely circular recoil lug. It is not glued in. Chad Dixon did my barrel work and put it all together. The rifle is simply a hammer. My 6x47 barrel shoots 3/8 moa and my 308 palma barrel shot a 150-14x at 800 a few months ago. This is with a sling and irons. I could not be happier.

 

[paulnyc]

Pierce did an amazing job on my 6.5 x 47 tubegun

 

[cobbonthecorn]

I'm in the same boat and appreciate much of the finer detail here. I have been window shopping so some details are fuzzy. My plan is for a 338LM. I think that is the RTM chassis. So, for example, what extractor does Pierce use? Defiance uses an M16. Does it matter functionally? Pierce uses 4140CM and Defiance uses 416SS. Does it really matter functionally? How about surface finish if I decide to go with a satin blasted finish? Pierce has their own firing pin configuration. Any thoughts? Finally, since we all want to look good at the range has anyone seen this build with a stainless barrel build? Most barrels and actions I have seen are cerakoted black to match the action, grip, etc. Thanks in advance!

 

[strike33]

I'm in the same boat and appreciate much of the finer detail here. I have been window shopping so some details are fuzzy. My plan is for a 338LM. I think that is the RTM chassis. So, for example, what extractor does Pierce use? Defiance uses an M16. Does it matter functionally? Pierce uses 4140CM and Defiance uses 416SS. Does it really matter functionally? How about surface finish if I decide to go with a satin blasted finish? Pierce has their own firing pin configuration. Any thoughts? Finally, since we all want to look good at the range has anyone seen this build with a stainless barrel build? Most barrels and actions I have seen are cerakoted black to match the action, grip, etc. Thanks in advance!

Bead Blasted Stainless is always a good look, especially with the long tube sticking out from the tube chassis

 

[Jon Lester]

No experience with Defiance, but I have a Pierce 300 WM in an AX and my experience with John Pierce was great!!!

 

[KT35]

No recoil lug. Just glue the action in and ditch the recoil lug.

KT

 

[Triggerf16]

My Mutant has the integral lug, and you get the advantage of a longer tenon length over the Rem/clone design with the disk lug. I'm not sure it makes an accuracy difference, but I sleep better at night because of the integral tenon design.

Both my tubeguns (one with each action) are hammers. I'm very happy with Gary's design, and recommend them to others.

 

[SFree]

Has anyone had any issues with the cheek piece/thumb wheel not holding elevation or the tube/clamps of the adjustable butt stock sliding or rotating while in use?

 

[MOAxp]

... on a HV Bartlein contour chambered in 6mm BR Norma...Primary use will be benchrest, target shooting.

If you are going to the effort of trying to get the BR to feed - go single stack mags - AWs will likely cause you issues... or consider the 6-6.5x47 alternatively for your chambering. The Rem BR rounds are very short and can be problems to feed correctly when in double stack mags.

 

[Jayman_10X]

If you are going to the effort of trying to get the BR to feed - go single stack mags - AWs will likely cause you issues... or consider the 6-6.5x47 alternatively for your chambering. The Rem BR rounds are very short and can be problems to feed correctly when in double stack mags.

Thanks for your insight. Good feedback & discussion from all!

 

[KT35]

Has anyone had any issues with the cheek piece/thumb wheel not holding elevation or the tube/clamps of the adjustable butt stock sliding or rotating while in use?

I have never had an issue with either.

 

[steve123]

I have never had an issue with either.

I have the Magpul PRS on my MAK tube gun. Very well made and It adjusts quick for LOP and cheek height.

 

[SFree]

My Mutant has the integral lug, and you get the advantage of a longer tenon length over the Rem/clone design with the disk lug. I'm not sure it makes an accuracy difference, but I sleep better at night because of the integral tenon design.

Both my tubeguns (one with each action) are hammers. I'm very happy with Gary's design, and recommend them to others.

Clarify somfin for me...
Your integral lug, is it same shape/dimensions as "standard" type lug or are you using the "disk"? Didn't know it was possible to use a regular lug in this chassis, or as usual, I'm not seeing this clearly and the stolen drugs have taken effect...

 

[KT35]

The chassis comes with a round lug. You can't use a standard style lug.

The best way is to glue the action in the chassis. Then don't use the recoil lug at all and screw the barrel straight into the action.

KT

 

[Triggerf16]

Clarify somfin for me...
Your integral lug, is it same shape/dimensions as "standard" type lug or are you using the "disk"? Didn't know it was possible to use a regular lug in this chassis, or as usual, I'm not seeing this clearly and the stolen drugs have taken effect...

The Mutant action has the lug as part of the action. Better explained by the picture of the action on the defiance website. It removes the need for a disk recoil lug entirely. Imagine the action diameter of 1.35." At the front of the action the diameter increases to about 1.5" or so. The effect is a 1/2" log lug/shoulder at the front of the action, that acts as a recoil lug, preventing it from pushing into the Eliseo stock under recoil. The extra benefit from this is the barrel tenon is longer. The integral lug and longer tenon design gives me calm restful nights sleep. I have some .100" groups to prove it.

 

[Triggerf16]

Of note, I shot my RTS yesterday at 480 and 530 yards. This uses a trued Remington action and a disk recoil lug. PTG bolt.

Results = 2" groups on steel at that range.

I'm happy.