ELR Course at Gunsite

[Lowlight]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Suppressors are just for the civilized shooters in the group, there was a heathen part of the line, we caged using the rocket crates ...

 

[Kevlars]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Enough said ... it is great fun to set up at a range and when you unleash the beast, the reactions are fantastic. from "What the Hell" to " Seriously ", the best is when I was on the line at Ben Avery and a range office walked behind me as I fired. From what I am told he jumped back about 3 feet.

I did warn them as I was setting up and they did push me down the line ... but it is still great fun.

 

[jbell]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Very nice guys, I would love to come out at some point. Looking forward to getting my ass kicked by Bob @ "short" 1k range.

 

[sinister]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Frank and S_Phoenix, how did the Schmidt Benders go down? Just curious, as I had a PM II go south when the parallax/side focus stopped working while we were doing 1200-1800 Meter work in mild temperatures.

Schmidt took care of it, but my feeble memory recalls it took somewhere between three and six weeks.

 

[S_Phoenix]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

My elevation just was not coming up to what was being dialed. Along with it going past the zero stop some times just 1 moa other times 2.5 or so moa.

Not that big of deal, as I plan on sending the scope back to have it converted over to mil anyway.

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we caged using the <span style="font-weight: bold">rocket</span> crates ... </div></div>

Please sign me up for the class where we get to use the original contents of those crates.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Mine took a hard left turn... not sure what is up either.

All week I was spot on, FFS was giving solid numbers, then first thing thursday what essentially was a chip shot a 1075 my rounds jumped left, then left again and then again despite corrections.

It went .7 left, which it should not have, as i was holding right .2, then corrected .7 more left and it now 1.5 left, then corrected more and it went into the woods left.

it also jumped a minimum of .5 high at the same time, so something popped it high left ...

We had solid conditions all week, Thursday nothing more than a 2 -3 MPH wind from the right, standard conditions and the rifle just shot left hard. I jumped on Len's AX and all was good, my wind calls solid, so i am guessing the scope went left and something snapped ?

Send it in, no big deal, scope is old, probably close to 15k or more rounds under it ... it can use a tune up.

 

[sinister]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> close to 15k or more rounds under it ... it can use a tune up.</div></div>

LOL.

I'd say it could do with a check-up. Thanks, interesting note. I have no idea how many mine had on it when it went south.

 

[Blasst]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

well god knows I ain't civilized...but I am waiting on my thunderbeast via Rob......i thought those were buffalo...................<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Suppressors are just for the civilized shooters in the group, there was a heathen part of the line, we caged using the rocket crates ... </div></div>

 

[Blasst]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya my original 5-25x <span style="font-style: italic">(circa 2005 I think)</span>

It was spot on all week, then Thursday it went hard left on me. I was off into no mans land so I am gonna send it in to see what's up.

</div></div> assuming you are talking a premier scope??? Just bought one and so far so good.......course haven't stretched it as much as you. I'll be following......

 

[Blasst]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do have to say this class went very, very well. Great equipment and great shooting by all. I think doing an XLR-2 class with 1 day to calibrate new systems and 2 days of UKD range shooting would be an excellent idea, we can add 4 more shooting locations easy to do the extra UKD's. Maybe in October again?

Walt and I went out this morning and made some targeting adjustments on the calibration range, opening up the 800m and 1100m plate views and adding a 900m plate. The 1400m plate is moved to a point near the 1450m plate that provides a good clear backdrop for spotting impacts. We got some additional UKD targets and FFP's laid in as well.

We are looking at making a raised pad on the paper range to make setup of the chronographs simple. I'd like to end up with 3 more PVM-21's, but they are a bit on the expensive side for a class that runs maybe twice a year.

On that note, we have it on the schedule now for the first week of November next year, but if there is demand we could do a springtime class as well, say late March or April? Call the office or PM me with good dates to start a list.

JaneAnne tells me some pics are going up on the FB page, plus she's putting one in the calendar layout for 2014 already. </div></div>


yes...springtime for sure, I'd make it there in a heartbeat.

 

[mcmillanman5]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Was there a specific round count for this class or how much ammo did most of you end up shooting?

 

[phxfa]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

185rds for me

 

[S_Phoenix]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

About the same for me. Its up to you on how much your shoulder and ears can take in a day.

 

[pyrofx]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

105 from the cheytac
50 from the 260
50 from the 300 winmag.

The 260 kept it's own with 80% 1st round hits from 990 to 1320 .

greg

 

[Kevlars]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

187 rds for me

 

[bm11]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

170 I believe.

 

[phxfa]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">170 I believe. </div></div>


slow shooter,,,,

 

[Ramius]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

338LM is pretty brutal on scopes, even S&Bs can go down.

A few years back when Zak and Raydog were shooting extended ranges and reporting breakage of scope mounts and recoil lugs.

I'd chalk it up as part of running on the cutting edge.

When I was checking my equipment in preparation for this class I found two loose scope ring screws on my primary. On my second rifle I found a little rust under the scope mount.

Hope to make it there next year!

 

[Kevlars]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Well my NightForce held up just fine.

 

[bm11]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well my NightForce held up just fine. </div></div>'Cept for when you missed due to it being on the wrong revolution (no zero stop.) Haha

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

How about the week of 21 APR for a spring class? I need at least 6 interested to add another, so PM or call if those dates look good.

 

[mcmillanman5]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Thanks for the info on round count guys. Looks like a good time and sounds like a lot was learned!

 

[steve123]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

So now that you have gone to a couple classes, how would you guys compare the Cheytac class cartridges to the 338L class cartridges at ELR distances?

I know what the numbers say on paper but what I'm curios about is, was there a noticeable difference and if there was, at what distance did it become apparent?

Also can you include what caliber projectile and velocity please.

Thanks

 

[XLR]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now that you have gone to a couple classes, how would you guys compare the Cheytac class cartridges to the 338L class cartridges at ELR distances?

I know what the numbers say on paper but what I'm curios about is, was there a noticeable difference and if there was, at what distance did it become apparent?

Also can you include what caliber projectile and velocity please.

Thanks </div></div>

I am not sure what the others think but from my experience, if I were engaging a target at 2200 yards or less I would use my 338. The Chey Tac has the longer range capabilities but my 338 is a much more accurate and usable at its capable range.

For my 338, I am shooting the 338 Norma Mag with the 285gr Hornady at 2940 fps. I did not shoot the Chey Tac at this class but I am/was shooting the 350gr Jammison solids at 3140 fps.

-Kyle ~ XLR

 

[Starbuck]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now that you have gone to a couple classes, how would you guys compare the Cheytac class cartridges to the 338L class cartridges at ELR distances?

I know what the numbers say on paper but what I'm curios about is, was there a noticeable difference and if there was, at what distance did it become apparent?

Also can you include what caliber projectile and velocity please.

Thanks</div></div>

I personally don't have a big enough dataset to answer this question. This was my first ELR class, and I shot 60 rounds of 408CT (RMB 420 @ 2900) and 160 338LM (Scenar 250 @ 2950). I had had more first round hits with the 408. Many other shooters were constatly smoking targets to 2K with their 338s. So, I'm planning to attend again in November 2013 and continue the research. Pyrofx was shoting his 375CT and maybe he can jump in as well - he's attended more classes than I have.

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

The real practical differance in the two depends on the type of target. Time of flight is the general limiting factor when engaging an animate target, and 1500-1600 meters is a practical max range, as TOF is about 2 - 2.5 seconds. If the target is fixed, then the limiting factor is terminal ballistics and/or wind drift. In any case, the 375CT will outperform all other contenders at ranges past 1500 meters. The downsides are of course, weight and expense.

 

[Graham]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Cory,

Sorry I missed this one. When I took it your ELR class was by far the most academic, most educational class I did that year.

What are the exact prospective class dates for the November 2013 ELR2?

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

For ELR-2, I'm looking at 3 days, either 18-20 OCT or 28-30 OCT.

 

[Enough Said]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I'm in for the April class if it fills.

So; 1/6.

Stoked.

 

[steve123]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So now that you have gone to a couple classes, how would you guys compare the Cheytac class cartridges to the 338L class cartridges at ELR distances?

I know what the numbers say on paper but what I'm curios about is, was there a noticeable difference and if there was, at what distance did it become apparent?

Also can you include what caliber projectile and velocity please.

Thanks </div></div>

I am not sure what the others think but from my experience, if I were engaging a target at 2200 yards or less I would use my 338. The Chey Tac has the longer range capabilities but my 338 is a much more accurate and usable at its capable range.

For my 338, I am shooting the 338 Norma Mag with the 285gr Hornady at 2940 fps. I did not shoot the Chey Tac at this class but I am/was shooting the 350gr Jammison solids at 3140 fps.

-Kyle ~ XLR </div></div>

Thanks guys. I trying to decide whether I want to get another 375CT or not.

Pyrofx, how did your 375CT do at the class?

 

[pyrofx]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Steve , the 375 is great . It performed quite well . It is definately best at the 1500 plus arena. The gun is shooting at about .75 min with the 350 SMK @3000. I agree with Kyle that below about 1600 yards its a toss up . In fact I would stay 338 below 1600 just because of cost and the fact Tom didn't like the muzzle blast . I may be filing a form 1 and build a can like you did .

Greg

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

So far I've got 3 for another XLR class starting April 21, 3 more and I'll post it in the system for signups.

 

[bm11]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I would say at this class the .338's did at least as well as the Cheytac's, but we had very little wind. I imagine if the wind had kicked up to a variable 7-10 mph it would have been a different story.

I agree with Tom though, Greg's brake sucked to be next to. Threw rocks, grass, and maybe even feces all over me and my gear!

 

[Starbuck]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For ELR-2, I'm looking at 3 days, either 18-20 OCT or 28-30 OCT. </div></div>

The Gunsite website is showing Nov 5-8 for this class. Would you kindly clarify when you have time?

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

The standard XLR 4 day class is set for Nov 5-8. The XLR 2 class, which would be three days, 1 day calibration and KD range work and 2 days of UKD could go into either of the October dates, depending on the schedules of those interested.

 

[steve123]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pyrofx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve , the 375 is great . It performed quite well . It is definately best at the 1500 plus arena. The gun is shooting at about .75 min with the 350 SMK @3000. I agree with Kyle that below about 1600 yards its a toss up . In fact I would stay 338 below 1600 just because of cost and the fact Tom didn't like the muzzle blast . I may be filing a form 1 and build a can like you did .

Greg </div></div>

Thanks for replying Greg!

I guess my main consideration should be asking myself how often I plan on shooting past a mile or so. Maybe I'll sell a motorcycle, I think I like shooting better than riding

 

[steve123]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say a this class the .338's did at least as well as the Cheytac's, but we had very little wind. I imagine if the wind had kicked up to a variable 7-10 mph it would have been a different story.

I agree with Tom though, Greg's brake sucked to be next to. Threw rocks, grass, and maybe even feces all over me and my gear! </div></div>

Haha, Once I was spotting for a friend with my 375CT while beside him when he was shooting his 50 BMG. I almost took my 375CT in the shower with me when I got home.

 

[Starbuck]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The standard XLR 4 day class is set for Nov 5-8. The XLR 2 class, which would be three days, 1 day calibration and KD range work and 2 days of UKD could go into either of the October dates, depending on the schedules of those interested.</div></div>

I'm in for either pair of the Oct dates for XLR 2.

 

[bm11]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

If we do XLR 2, I vote for two man teams for the UKD, the 3 man teams were a little slow for my tastes, and I could have used a bit more shooting that day.

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

We can do that, depending on the number of people. I actually thought 4 man groups would work, with two shooting and two spotting. Work one target with two shooters, then the next, until all 5 are shot, then swap roles. Next station, the first ones that shot now spot.

 

[phxfa]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

If BM11 steps up, I'll have a suppressed 4 man team put together for next spring XLR 2

 

[bm11]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We can do that, depending on the number of people. I actually thought 4 man groups would work, with two shooting and two spotting. Work one target with two shooters, then the next, until all 5 are shot, then swap roles. Next station, the first ones that shot now spot. </div></div>That would work too!

 

[hypertex]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

ELR2 sounds like fun. Add me to the list.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Im in for that ... but yes I agree the three man teams ran slow

Cory let me know when I can call Karen and get my name on the list.

-K

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

Looks like we have 4 already wanting to book the April 21 date, so I'm going to see if I can't put that on the schedule tomorrow so people can start planning. I'll make a note here when it's up and ready for Karen to take reservations.

Still working the XLR-2 program. Looking at adding targets, maybe some combination of MGM air reset and LaRue's, plus some firing points to give you some different look angles in the afternoon. I'll be out on the quad this week scouting that and hopefully get that date set as well.

 

[bm11]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

I'm in for ELR 2 for sure.

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

OK, XLR for April 22 is in the system, same deal as before, the 21st will be a day on Field Firing Solutions if anyone is interested.

 

[one shot ST]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Last Call!!! There are still 3 slots available for the ELR class starting Oct 15th, with the 14th reserved for a day of training on Field Firing Solutions.

I'm hoping to get a Vectronix Moskito demo unit, plus a deal on Terrapins or PLRF rangefinders for class members. Ashbury Precision is trying to deliver the prototype .375 CT system for a first look as well. We've got the PVS-26 and 27 with IR systems for the night fire already, so we should have a pretty good time! </div></div>

Some days ago I've used some Vectronix items, PLRF 25 and Mosquito, they works great with FFS using a PLRF C menu.
I don't like the cable connection in the front.
I still prefer the PLRF 10 C.... versus PLRF 15 C and 25.
If we must stay within 2400 meters..

 

[CoryT]

Re: ELR Course at Gunsite

OK, XLR-2 looks possible, I've laid out several new firing points, some of which will work pretty well in the afternoons. 3 days, one day on the calibration ranges confirming gear and comms between teams, then 2 days on UKD's. $1077 per person. October 28-30, 2013. Shoot me a PM if that date works, if I get 4 to confirm I'll add it to the schedule and post it when registration opens.