ELR Suppressor idea

[JB.IC]

Area 419 is developing a suppressor that works not only as a suppressor but also a muzzle brake. The idea isn’t to fully suppress the muzzle blast but to remove the concussive pressure and also work as a muzzle brake.

How many of you would be interested in an ELR version? I know I would. I have a Crux 375ArchAngel in ATF jail but really the only reason I bought it was to be able to train for ELR and not turn my brain into mashed potatoes. I personally struggle to make I through an 8 stage PRS match and shooting ELR isn’t any better for me.

Anyways below is a 17min video they just released. I’m hoping something like this could be adopted for ELR for my personal reasons mentioned above.

What are your guy’s thoughts?

 

[Mooncake]

My thoughts are based on my experience with Barrett's 50 cal can (which has a removable brake on the end) on a M99 and my experience shooting smaller calibers like 308 and 338LM with brakes and with cans.

On the 50, the muzzle brake at the end of the can doesn't seem to increase my recoil control and maintenance of sight picture much over the can itself, and certainly both are far inferior in that regard to the large arrowhead brake. All the brake on the end of the can seems to do is add flash in low light. A LOT of flash. Probably percussion, too, but it's on the end of a long barrel and I don't really notice.

Regarding more mortal calibers, my control of the recoil and sight picture seem to be about the same with brake or with can.
In short: I don't believe adding a brake to the end of a can provides an advantage. It will likely just compromise the benefits of the can.

Perhaps someone else has different experiences.

 

[W54/XM-388]

My thoughts are based on my experience with Barrett's 50 cal can (which has a removable brake on the end) on a M99 and my experience shooting smaller calibers like 308 and 338LM with brakes and with cans.

On the 50, the muzzle brake at the end of the can doesn't seem to increase my recoil control and maintenance of sight picture much over the can itself, and certainly both are far inferior in that regard to the large arrowhead brake. All the brake on the end of the can seems to do is add flash in low light. A LOT of flash. Probably percussion, too, but it's on the end of a long barrel and I don't really notice.

Regarding more mortal calibers, my control of the recoil and sight picture seem to be about the same with brake or with can.
In short: I don't believe adding a brake to the end of a can provides an advantage. It will likely just compromise the benefits of the can.

Perhaps someone else has different experiences.

Interesting that you mention that.
When I was talking with the Barrett rep at one of the shows, they said the brake at the end of the suppressor reduced the recoil a fair bit.
(We were discussing the Semi auto rifles).

So in your hands on experience it pretty much did nothing but added flash and noise?

 

[Mooncake]

Interesting that you mention that.
When I was talking with the Barrett rep at one of the shows, they said the brake at the end of the suppressor reduced the recoil a fair bit.
(We were discussing the Semi auto rifles).

So in your hands on experience it pretty much did nothing but added flash and noise?

Seemed that way. I haven't shot the semi-auto 50s. My understanding is that the recoil is substantially less than the 99. Perhaps it's a benefit you experience when the recoil isn't so extreme. Without that arrowhead, the 99 is a mule.

 

[JB.IC]

I ask anyone commenting to actually watch the video to understand that the suppressor portion of the can is to reduce the concussive blast while still allowing gasses to flow into the brake to reap the benefit of reduced recoil.

Regular suppressors slow the gasses to the point that the muzzle brake pull off effect doesn’t happen. This suppressor/brake will still allow that to effect to happen.

If you don’t watch the video then you’re not going to be able to have a sound response to this thread. This “suppressor” isn’t like anything done before because it’s not designed to completely reduce sound signature like most other suppressors.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

So the area 419 is a hybrid more or less half the recoil reduction as a full break and half the noise reduction as a full suppressor.

On another note how would a brake inside a can add any recoil reduction benefit if the gasses aren't being expelled out in the direction it was designed?

 

[JB.IC]

According to AREA 419’s testing, it provides about as much recoil reduction as their Sidewinder muzzle brake. Sound reduction numbers haven’t been published yet.

Correction: “muzzle movement” because staying on target is the name of the game for what it was designed for.

 

[AIAW]

I have to ask "what is an ELR suppressor"? I am under the assumption that distance, recoil and audible signature were somewhat independent variables.

Something lightweight would be better suited for ELR work for sure to minimize barrel harmonics (some are tunable). You'll still never be as accurate and repeatable as a naked muzzle, regardless of all recoil/pressure/sound effects to a human. Not that anyone would be competing with one of these.

 

[JB.IC]

I have to ask "what is an ELR suppressor"? I am under the assumption that distance, recoil and audible signature were somewhat independent variables.

Something lightweight would be better suited for ELR work for sure to minimize barrel harmonics (some are tunable). You'll still never be as accurate and repeatable as a naked muzzle, regardless of all recoil/pressure/sound effects to a human. Not that anyone would be competing with one of these.

This is the ELR section. The product being mentioned is for PRS so not ELR. I said ELR suppressor to not confuse the two disciplines. I didn’t know what to call it. It’s really not that big of a deal what I called it. I gave it a name that corresponds with the ELR disciple. Don’t put too much effort into dissecting that. It’s was just a name.

 

[AIAW]

This is the ELR section. The product being mentioned is for PRS so not ELR. I said ELR suppressor to not confuse the two disciplines. I didn’t know what to call it. It’s really not that big of a deal what I called it. I gave it a name that corresponds with the ELR disciple. Don’t put too much effort into dissecting that. It’s was just a name.

Whoa, take a step back... No offense meant what so ever!

I also realize which section this is. My simple point is there is no such thing as an "ELR version" of a suppressor, recoil mitigator or whatever you want we want to coin it as. It's guaranteed to be beefier simply from a structural standpoint for certain calibers, but that's about it. Same premise - there is no such thing as an "ELR brake".

If Area 419 did make one of these for a 375CT/416B/50 BMG would I buy into it? Maybe. No real suppressor is "hearing friendly" (none are safe) with those calibers anyhow, but the over-pressure mitigation alone for say 50 BMG would be nice. I'm more interested in the accuracy and consistency out of an ELR rig though. In you particular case I believe the suppressor you have in jail will make your experience much more pleasant.

 

[JB.IC]

Whoa, take a step back... No offense meant what so ever!

I also realize which section this is. My simple point is there is no such thing as an "ELR version" of a suppressor, recoil mitigator or whatever you want we want to coin it as. It's guaranteed to be beefier simply from a structural standpoint for certain calibers, but that's about it. Same premise - there is no such thing as an "ELR brake".

If Area 419 did make one of these for a 375CT/416B/50 BMG would I buy into it? Maybe. No real suppressor is "hearing friendly" (none are safe) with those calibers anyhow, but the over-pressure mitigation alone for say 50 BMG would be nice. I'm more interested in the accuracy and consistency out of an ELR rig though. In you particular case I believe the suppressor you have in jail will make your experience much more pleasant.

My bad. I’m too used to people on here trying to fight over technicalities as if they need to win some intellectual argument over nothing lol.

I think I have a case of TBI. I’m not sure since I haven’t been checked at the VA yet. But what I do know is that muzzle brakes cause some issues with my head and I desperately want something that can reduce the concussion and reduce recoil. Sound suppression isn’t really my priority so long as the concussion can be reduced.

 

[AIAW]

My bad. I’m too used to people on here trying to fight over technicalities as if they need to win some intellectual argument over nothing lol.

I think I have a case of TBI. I’m not sure since I haven’t been checked at the VA yet. But what I do know is that muzzle brakes cause some issues with my head and I desperately want something that can reduce the concussion and reduce recoil. Sound suppression isn’t really my priority so long as the concussion can be reduced.

No worries! I would hope not... perhaps a ENT specialist first? Do you have a lot of sinus issues or migraines normally?

 

[JB.IC]

No worries! I would hope not... perhaps a ENT specialist first? Do you have a lot of sinus issues or migraines normally?

I don’t normally have sinus issues unless it’s really dusty like in Afghanistan. I almost never get migraines under normal circumstances. I’ve probably had maybe 5 migraines in the last 30 years. (Besides what I mention below) I left the military two years ago. I’ve shot 5 or 6 PRS matches since then and every single match I get a massive migraine. My head gets foggy. I develop sinus pressure in my forehead. If I have to sneeze it’s like an explosion going off in my head. I get irritable and slightly sluggish at processing information. My PRS club shoots 8 stages and this starts happening around stage 4. I’ve switched over to shooting suppressed and it has help reduce when the symptoms above occur but it doesn’t stop them given the fact that most squad members shoot unsuppressed.
I’m also a little worried because I feel like recently I’m forgetting how to spell simple words.

Anyways I don’t know anything about TBI but when I looked up some symptoms I thought that maybe something happened that’s similar.

 

[AIAW]

I don’t normally have sinus issues unless it’s really dusty like in Afghanistan. I almost never get migraines under normal circumstances. I’ve probably had maybe 5 migraines in the last 30 years. (Besides what I mention below) I left the military two years ago. I’ve shot 5 or 6 PRS matches since then and every single match I get a massive migraine. My head gets foggy. I develop sinus pressure in my forehead. If I have to sneeze it’s like an explosion going off in my head. I get irritable and slightly sluggish at processing information. My PRS club shoots 8 stages and this starts happening around stage 4. I’ve switched over to shooting suppressed and it has help reduce when the symptoms above occur but it doesn’t stop them given the fact that most squad members shoot unsuppressed.
I’m also a little worried because I feel like recently I’m forgetting how to spell simple words.

Anyways I don’t know anything about TBI but when I looked up some symptoms I thought that maybe something happened that’s similar.

Damn, you should definitely get that checked out! Perhaps have the VA run a MRI and in addition visit an ENT specialist. You know you'd feel much more comfortable with some answers, and there are a whole list of simple or complex conditions that it could be.

 

[SnkBit]

With the current testing of structured barrels showing promising results I feel like it’s only a matter of time before these morph into integrally suppressed structured barrels. That’s my guess in the what’s next of ELR and it could be awesome. A device like the one in the video that does half as good as a brake and half as good as a supressor will likely be half as successful as either...

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

IIRC Jerry Rice at NorCal Precision did something very very similar to this concept back in early to mid 2000s time frame but ceased rather quickly because his intention was for it to not be NFA but in fact it would have been NFA so he stopped.

I personally do not like the idea of "blending" the devices together but that is just me.

To me it is like the term "universal"....which when translated properly means "Does a few things OK but does nothing GREAT" mentality.

In regards to ELR and integrally suppressed barrels.....would require a lot of testing to prove that heating the barrel from inside and outside would not be detrimental to the firing sequence.

Sincerely,
Theis