Emergency vehicle precedence

Q

QuickNDirty

Guest
#1
Came across this video and it got me thinking about things I'd never thought to think about before...

So, apparently it is possible that an ambulance, a firetruck, and a police car could all be en-route to some place they need to get to, and that place may or may not be the same place. Who takes precedence when all three find themselves in a place where they need to yield to each other?

 
#3
Veer_G said:
There's another dynamic going on in that video that some of us may not want to recognize.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/oklahoma.trooper.suspended/index.html
Click to expand...

The main takeaway is this:
West also said Martin had "probable cause to make the traffic stop and justification to arrest the paramedic for obstructing a police officer"
Click to expand...

So, you've got two emergency vehicles en-route, and one was violating the law by not yielding to the other. Hence the question, who takes precedence when you've got fire, ems, and leo meeting at a point where they've got to yield to eachother?
 
#4
My feelings can be expressed in a few words.

"Fuck that (ego tripping) piece of shit."

There was no excuse for that happening on the side of the road.

Had the passenger in the van died, would he have been charged with involuntary manslaughter?
 
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#5
QuickNDirty said:
The main takeaway is this:


So, you've got two emergency vehicles en-route, and one was violating the law by not yielding to the other. Hence the question, who takes precedence when you've got fire, ems, and leo meeting at a point where they've got to yield to eachother?
Click to expand...

Apparently some in the judiciary want to make case law that it's law enforcement. If that bus was loaded with a critical patient, I'd say fuck the cops and let them follow until we got to the hospital and dropped at the ER. The guy was a paramedic, so it was ALS and probably not basic transport. The cop was way over the top and took it personally. And as you might intuit, there was probably a healthy dose of animus. Apparently, management agrees with me:

In a news conference Wednesday, Oklahoma Highway Patrol Captain Chris West said Martin "failed to recognize that it would have been more reasonable and appropriate to immediately allow the ambulance to continue to the hospital once he understood there was a patient onboard the ambulance."
Click to expand...
 
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#7
If LEO takes precedence, how do you negotiate a situation where two LEO are en-route to different calls have are in a position where they'd need to yield to one another?
 
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#9
QuickNDirty said:
If LEO takes precedence, how do you negotiate a situation where two LEO are en-route to different calls have are in a position where they'd need to yield to one another?
Click to expand...

Who knows?

48rzCd.png


http://www.fox29.com/news/two-police-cars-undergo-heavy-damage-after-crash#/
 
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#12
Maggot said:
My feelings can be expressed in a few words.

"Fuck that (ego tripping) piece of shit."

There was no excuse for that happening on the side of the road.

Had the passenger in the van died, would he have been charged with involuntary manslaughter?
Click to expand...
Lol. No he's a cop.
They don't even get charged when they are typing an email and swerve over into the bike lane and kill a bicyclist.

Literally the definition of tyranny.
 
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#15
I kinda wonder, the cop was running code, the ambulance was not, that would give the cop reasonable expectation that the ambulance should have pulled over. He has no way of knowing that a patient was in the ambulance and since they weren't running code, it obviously wasn't a critical situation.
I do say that the cop badly over reacted to the situation but there was a large element of stupid on both sides of that equation.
 
#16
SubOptimal said:
I kinda wonder, the cop was running code, the ambulance was not, that would give the cop reasonable expectation that the ambulance should have pulled over. He has no way of knowing that a patient was in the ambulance and since they weren't running code, it obviously wasn't a critical situation.
I do say that the cop badly over reacted to the situation but there was a large element of stupid on both sides of that equation.
Click to expand...

Whether a Code 3 was going on or not on the ambulance's part, it doesn't take away from the fact that an ambulance is still an emergency vehicle. Obviously the patient wasn't in serious condition where lights and sirens would be on, but still things could have gotten bad for her really quick. One of the guys mentions it was his mother, so obviously makes her an elderly woman. Being in an ambulance is scary enough. Having a jack booted thug cop harassing the driver and family while in route to the hospital could have triggered a life threatening situation such as a heart attack. I know the cops supporters here will find a way to defend the cop, but you gotta admit pulling over an ambulance is pretty petty if you ask me.
 
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#17
It would probably depend on the individual state rules. In California, there is no statute im aware of that prioritizes one over the other. Both would be completely exempt from the vehicle code if they had emergency lights activated, but not exempt from excercising due care. In 17 years, Ive never had a single issue with another emergency vehicle. Since fire rolls code to everything as a matter of policy(regardless of the call), I tend to clear the intersections for them if I arrive first, and they’re nearby.
 
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#19
I think everyone is over complicating things. Treat every intersection like your mate is about to roll through it "code" or old miss daisy who's deaf and blind is about to roll through it too, you can't help anyone sitting on your roof 5 blocks from the job.

As for the unlikely scenario you both pull up to the same intersection at the same time, whoever has right of way according to whatever the traffic control is (signs/lights) would go first.
 
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#20
Maser said:
Whether a Code 3 was going on or not on the ambulance's part, it doesn't take away from the fact that an ambulance is still an emergency vehicle. Obviously the patient wasn't in serious condition where lights and sirens would be on, but still things could have gotten bad for her really quick. One of the guys mentions it was his mother, so obviously makes her an elderly woman. Being in an ambulance is scary enough. Having a jack booted thug cop harassing the driver and family while in route to the hospital could have triggered a life threatening situation such as a heart attack. I know the cops supporters here will find a way to defend the cop, but you gotta admit pulling over an ambulance is pretty petty if you ask me.
Click to expand...

An ambulance with no lights or sirens is nothing more than a taxi. It don't provide any information as to whether there is a patient aboard or if the crew is just heading out for coffee. To boot, that was a private ambulance service, not fire department. I really didn't see any signs of an EMT, just a guy in a t-shirt claiming to be one. Pretty obvious that the women inside was healthy enough to scream and yell and piss and moan. I already stated that the cop way over reacted and some of his actions were inappropriate. I, however was not walking in his shoes. There may well have been some history in that neighborhood. At one time, he was 1 against 5 large, seemingly angry men. At least he didn't draw his weapon.
 
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#21
SubOptimal said:
An ambulance with no lights or sirens is nothing more than a taxi. It don't provide any information as to whether there is a patient aboard or if the crew is just heading out for coffee. To boot, that was a private ambulance service, not fire department. I really didn't see any signs of an EMT, just a guy in a t-shirt claiming to be one. Pretty obvious that the women inside was healthy enough to scream and yell and piss and moan. I already stated that the cop way over reacted and some of his actions were inappropriate. I, however was not walking in his shoes. There may well have been some history in that neighborhood. At one time, he was 1 against 5 large, seemingly angry men. At least he didn't draw his weapon.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Regardless of whether we support the actions of the cop or not, I think it's safe to say we all would be in a different frame of mind if it was our loved one in the back of that ambulance.
 
#22
SubOptimal said:
An ambulance with no lights or sirens is nothing more than a taxi. It don't provide any information as to whether there is a patient aboard or if the crew is just heading out for coffee. To boot, that was a private ambulance service, not fire department. I really didn't see any signs of an EMT, just a guy in a t-shirt claiming to be one. Pretty obvious that the women inside was healthy enough to scream and yell and piss and moan. I already stated that the cop way over reacted and some of his actions were inappropriate. I, however was not walking in his shoes. There may well have been some history in that neighborhood. At one time, he was 1 against 5 large, seemingly angry men. At least he didn't draw his weapon.
Click to expand...

Hmm. The Creek have a health system: http://www.creekhealth.org/ They have tribal police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighthorse_(American_Indian_police) What makes you think that they don't have EMS as principal providers for enrolled members?
 
#23
Maser said:
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Regardless of whether we support the actions of the cop or not, I think it's safe to say we all would be in a different frame of mind if it was our loved one in the back of that ambulance.
Click to expand...

That's true from my perspective. I, like a dumbass, called an ambulance because my son was having febrile convulsions and I didn't know what that shit was at the time.

I was hella pissed that the ambulance was driving like a granny with no code, knowing full well my son was fucked up and that shit was gonna cost me 1k+ and I could get him to the hospital faster.
 
#24
Your locale may be different than mine. Here, if I call 911, our FD rolls with their own paramedic unit and a fire truck follows. They run code the whole way to and return.
You can call a private ambulance service but would be foolish to do so if someone is bleeding badly or in some form of seizure or cardiac or pulmonary distress. We have full time fire and ambulance service on the city payroll with trained, professional people running all the units. There are 3 fire houses within 3 miles of my house and dispatch will determine who is available and will give the best service. I live in a small city with a population of around 70,000.
 
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#30
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
This is from nine years ago. I wonder how that ego maniac's career went. I hope that it was short lived or he had a serious change of mindset.
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He has more excessive force usage and got suspended another time for showing a inappropriate picture to a cadet. His crime spree ended in 2018 when he died of natural causes at age 46
 
#34
During my lifetime I have had to drive emergency vehicles, Vol. Fire Dept., wrecker, ambulance and Colo. Highway Dept. vehicles.
You never know which one of those vehicles is needed the most, first, at whatever situation and if everyone has their collective shit together, they will yield to each other to get their mission accomplished and not be in the way of each other. It needs to be a team effort and Badge Heavy Cops don't fit in well.
EddieNFL makes good points in Post#8 and I am all too familiar with that. I have seen the Badge Heavy Pricks all too often fuck up what was going good until their presence was made known, then never admit as to having made a mistake.
The Old Troopers used to take care of shit like that, within their own ranks, Police you own, Shitheads that didn't fit in were gone in short order. Now their teeth seem to have been have been pulled and it seems to me they have little or no control of an Officer among them that they know is not right for the job. Hands tied when they know what needs to go on. Keeps those numbers of Cops on the road up even though they KNOW they have a bad one.
Have you ever heard a LEO admit to a mistake? Not likely to happen and the Top will cover for he/she when they know GODDAMN WELL they Fucked up. Until a Judge comes down on them, they are good to go. Sad, as we all make mistakes but a lot of us are Man enough to admit it and try to correct things.
Deerspinpers Post#30 makes me wonder what the natural causes for his death were at age 46? That is young to die. Downtown 5 Points AssWhoopin, beat to death for felony stupid, or did the Great Spirit decide he was a Fuck Up and take him back in for an overhaul? FM
 
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