Why would you work for a Police Department that didn't have the qualified immunity? A private insurance company only goes so far after that your on your own. For example the city of Los Angeles has unlimited resources, if some mutt wants to sue from San Quentin prison that ment nothing to me. As as long as I didn't violate any SOP it wasn't anything I had to worry about. The 4 times that even came up was after I had to put a shit bag down because he/she tried to blow me away. They or their estate will almost always try to sue just for a settlement. At that point all I was is the whiteness. I spent 2 years in law school and one thing I learned was if you have insurance you will most likely be sued because insurance companies almost always will settle at the end because it's less costly than going to trial and winning the case. While all this is going on for a minimum of 3 years your giving deposition after deposition, meeting with the insurance attorneys every other week. I have an insurance policy from CCW Safe being retired now. This policy covers up to 6 million in legal protection. Not being a city employee any longer it's a wise move. The LEOSA deal only makes it a leagl supposedly to carry a gun almost every where you go, not use it. Immunity insurance is like automobile and homeowners insurance, they only go so far. The problem with law enforcement on that level is almost anything you do is actionable.
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Employees suck !
- Thread starter deersniper
- Start date
If you actually ever worked as a law enforcement officer your not stealing anything. By that philosophy your stealing from your employer. I personally earned every dollar I got on active duty and now in retirement. You have to pay into that just like anyone does in any other job. The only retirement I didn't pay for is from the Government after 22 years in the Marine Corps. Same thing you earned every dollar of it. Like yourself I agree a lot of municipal and government retirement and other benefits are way over the top, put not police and military.
It is so that law enforcement as it's share of bad apples. Departments try to weed them out but that's not as easy as you may think. The 4 shit bags I had to put down were trying to kill me at the time. Ending their bullshit lives didn't trouble me a bit. Police Officers are drawn from society just like any other profession and come with all the flaws and virtues that society has. 98% of the men and women that I worked with were dedicated motivated professionals. You don't hear much about them for the same reason you don't hear about the thousands of aircraft that take off and land with no problem. That doesn't sell newspapers.
Qualified immunity is not bullet proof. You can be sued at any time if the plaintiff alleges gross neglect, malfeasance, prejudice, or any other bias. It doesn’t mean they will win but it does mean you have to put up a legal defense. A PLUP provides that legal defense and in the event you lose in court it will pay up to the policy limits for any judgement.
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Just another has been, telling folks that deal with danger everyday, how bad ass he is. Shut your mouth, you are truly showing how ignorant you are.
I wish we had a sarcasm font.
I carried the policy in case I fucked up. I really didn't trust the departments.
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You mean like pulling your duty weapon instead of your taser and smoking a mutt? Or, leaving your cruiser parked on the train tracks with a Karen in the back seat? Or, standing in a hallway for 50 minutes applying hand sanitizer while kids are being shot a few feet away?
I can’t imagine you doing any of those things but they have all happened recently.
I mean who hasn’t parked on active train tracks with someone they are responsible for in the car and walked away? Happens to the best of us
More like forgetting to initial an evidence sheet during a search warrant or not taking a prisoner to the hospital because he popped a hemorrhoid and bled all over my patrol car.
If someone is bleeding all over and you don’t take them to the hospital, I think you deserve what you get
Common sense ain’t that common
“The 4 times that even came up was after I had to put a shit bag down”
Who the hell even talks like that, thinking you’re ether full of shit, or you get some major mental issues
Not to mention the number of cops who killed 4 people on the job
Something smells, not sure if it’s the scent of BS or the scent of crazy
That’s a lot of diesel!
They should consider getting rendered
Between both of them they would heat their homes all winter
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Try shutting off peoples cable at 11pm on a Friday in New Orleans 9th ward.
Yes that is so. The city is the defendant in such an action because the cop is employed by the city. The city carries insurance for this, they get sued all the time for what we do. The city has the deep pockets that's where the money comes from. Suing one of us personally is like suing the driver separately from their car insurance company, you can but that will cost you a lot more than you could recover. Attorneys will sue an insurance company for you without a retainer because they know that 98% of these actions never go to trial so it's only depositions, investigations, medical treatments if any, anything his/her staff does. If their was a death involved in which all 4 of mine were they go for the big bucks knowing they will get 20 cents on the doller of the amount they ask for in the settlement. If they go after me personally they would need a $5,000 retainer for the Attorney they want to hire up front. The first thing the attorney will tell you is even if you prevail in such an action you would still have to pay your attorney thousands in fees and costs. The burden of proof is 100% on the plaintiffs in a civil action. The city of Los Angeles was sued all four times over the shit bags I had to put down. Nothing came out of my pocket as a result. It's so that you can be sued for pretty much anything you do as a Cop, that's why like I said I wouldn't take the job if I needed to carry my own insurance. I spent 40 years working in the system, I know all about how it works. Two years of law school taught me a lot about how to avoid personal liability as well as how not to lose a criminal case in court. Qualified immunity is more for criminal liability than civil liability. Police Officers could not do the job if they could be sued or prosecuted for everything they do. You have to intentionally break the law before you can be fired and get jammed up. Even then I saw a lot of instances where a board of rights hearing did not lead to termination or prosecutions when they probably should have.
Except for the level of fuck up that cop insurance covers, if you made the level of a fuck up driving at the very least no insurance company would touch you again, which wouldn’t matter because you’d probably never be able to get a drivers license again
If being personally responsible would have made someone who takes every chance he can get to talk about the people he “had to put down” no take the job, well I think thats proof enough of why we need to end qualified immunity and tax payer funded insurance for these police, removing personal responsibility attracts people like you, people who get working Americans thinking we should defund the police
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You were LAPD you say? What is your take on this?
LAPD officer killed during training exercise by cops he was investigating for sexual assault: attorney
So does this story up the danger level in this career choice?
Don't bother, I have tried and just gave up. You need to understand that there are people that have very closed minds and refuse to see pure fact when it looks them in the face....you know like libs.
I am 900 days from retirement, I am tired. I will miss the people but not the job.
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It was a special set of events that led to that night of craziness. We did get ran off. I am white for perspective. I worked many hoods and trailer parks all over the country night and day for a few years. Im not going to pretend to know everyone's experience but I can say without a doubt today I would not do what I did back then. I benefitted from looking like an officer or crazy white guy. Shaved head before MJ and Willis made it popular. When I had issues officers had my back in the hoods and trailer parks. No questions asked took my side immediately. I could have a hammer in my hand holding some fucker down or my hooks in someone's chest and I was the good guy. All I had to say was I was trying to do my job and dude came up messing with me. Today maybe not. From my experience if you want your turf to look like Mogadishu don't help cops do their job. Don't rat out your neighbors, don't tell them what is going on if asked. That is how trailer parks, the hoods/ghettos work. I get both sides of the argument, I do but, man the shit that I've had to deal with just to repair their cable or fiber was ridiculous. Have a friend that was a prison guard and he said he was not proud of who he was back then. He said if you didn't immediately show dominance you'd get hurt. Society has many that are mentally stuck in HS. If I were an officer I would have shot or beat someone to death if I had to do their job. That's just from the fraction of their daily bullshit I had to deal with. I think Atlanta starts their city officers in the high 30ks. Lol. I find their tolerance to not blast idiots daily amazing. They have met and surpassed my threshold of doing better than I would have by the sheer low numbers of people they do kill.I think this gentleman could possibly #11 on the list.
As I've said, the city would be the defendant in any law suit that would arise from the cops actions not the cop himself. The simple facts of life are the city is insured, the city has deep pockets. Attorneys 99.9% of the time won't take the case if you want to sue me personally for the simple fact is if I had any assets to go after I wouldn't be a cop. If I have a mortgage on my house it's not on the table because I don't own it, my car isn't on the table because I don't own it. My retirement isn't on the table because I don't own it yet. Social Security is never on the table. The number one reason an attorney won't touch it is because they won't get anything out of it. Unless the plaintiff finds a cop hater you pretty much don't have to worry about it. In fact if you do carry your own insurance you probably will be sued because your insurance will almost always settle so there is money on the table. If you know how the system works you know that the only time you have an issue with qualified immunity as far as the criminal end goes is if you actually get terminated. Your issue is at this point is any leagl expenses go they are your responsibility. Unless you obviously and intentionally commit a crime that's not likely. If after internal affairs, OIST does their thing they make the decision on whether it goes to a trial board. If they find you at fault they decide if it goes on to the Prosecuting Attorney's office with a criminal recommendation. Many times they'll give the cop the option to resign or go that way. Like I said I've seen a few that should have happened to but didn't. As to my remarks about having had to put 4 mutts down, they attempted to take my life and came up short. Why should that trouble me? The point was if there would be a lawsuit over that. Most likely. These are Bullshit just as most pleas of self defense are. The defendants attorney tells them to say that. Cops know that, Prosecutors know that, Judges know that from experience. It was my experience that around 5% of the self defense arguments are really self defense for a civilian. If you have any substantial time on the job you know or have even been involved in instances where a Police Officer is forced to kill a suspect other than personal defense. It comes with the job. As to your remarks about qualified immunity. If that goes away 99% of Police Officers go with it. Only those stupid enough to put themselves, families and financial assets in that kind of jepordy would take the job. If somebody you deal with at some time for one reason or another doesn't try to sue you and or the city your not doing your job. If you have issues with ending a human life when no other options are available than why are you on a forum called snipers hide? What do you think a sniper does for a living. As a Marine scout sniper I couldn't have done my job If I had issues with that. I'm not proud of it but neither do have reason to be ashamed. If putting some mutt down that's trying to take your life or the life of an innocent civilian troubles you your in the wrong line of work. I was personally responsible for everything I ever did, that's why I did it right. Being sued doesn't make you wrong. All that's about is getting money out of somebody else's pocket. I was never reckless or irresponsible about anything. I did my job and did it well that's how I lasted so long. There were countless occasions when I had to risk my life doing my job. Doing the job cost me a lot personally. Not in the form of money. If you stay in law enforcement that's going to happen. My first FTO out of the academy said to me "Boy if you want to catch a big fish ya gotta wade into the creek" if getting sued keeps you awake at night you need to do something else.
I’m what instance would you “kill a suspect” other than for personal defense? Like for not wearing a Covid mask or speeding?
Trying to kill another cop, civilian, trying to kidnap a civilian. Armed robbery suspect attempting to escape, armed suspect firing rounds at Police or other targets. If these are things you wouldn't use deadly force to stop I'm sure you can get a job at Walmart or some security guard company
Trying to kill another cop, civilian, trying to kidnap a civilian. Armed robbery suspect attempting to escape, armed suspect firing rounds at Police or other targets. If these are things you wouldn't use deadly force to stop I'm sure you can get a job at Walmart or some security guard company
OK…Are you vaccinated?
All this bad assery and just a cruiser pilot? Surely you were swat and have some really good stories from that?
Marine scout sniper and you didn't get the bonus bucks from the taxpayers?
Marine scout sniper and you didn't get the bonus bucks from the taxpayers?
Please carry on. I'm thinking about changing from my Muck boots to my waders.
@Max4007
Anyhow. Some of the LAPD boys are being accused of murdering one of their own. He was investigating LAPD officers of gang raping a girl. Apparently he was beaten to death in training.
If you are really ex LAPD I would think you would have a comment. I am curious what your take is on it.
Here is the link.
Anyhow. Some of the LAPD boys are being accused of murdering one of their own. He was investigating LAPD officers of gang raping a girl. Apparently he was beaten to death in training.
If you are really ex LAPD I would think you would have a comment. I am curious what your take is on it.
Here is the link.
LAPD officer killed during training exercise by cops he was investigating for sexual assault: attorney
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That was rhetorical. We already knew.
I think I found your old training video with the new cadets. This could be one of the more educational videos posted to SH on cadet training. The cadet shoot house seen @ 3:22 is the most accurate I’ve ever seen anywhere. You nailed it.
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Which is wrong, why should the some barber on main street pay because YOU fucked up?
Why not pay it out of the pension funds and PD budgets and benefits packages as well as the offending officers estate?
How are u at concrete work??? And do you have any bow kills?
Trying to kill another cop, civilian, trying to kidnap a civilian. Armed robbery suspect attempting to escape, armed suspect firing rounds at Police or other targets. If these are things you wouldn't use deadly force to stop I'm sure you can get a job at Walmart or some security guard company
At least if that Walmart guy fucks up tax payers don’t have to cover it, and they can be more easily held personally responsible for their actions
God damn, I didn’t know meter maids saw so much action. Do you know Gecko45 by chanceTrying to kill another cop, civilian, trying to kidnap a civilian. Armed robbery suspect attempting to escape, armed suspect firing rounds at Police or other targets. If these are things you wouldn't use deadly force to stop I'm sure you can get a job at Walmart or some security guard company
Ignorance is bliss. You have at best a remedial understanding of tort law, and only a basic understanding of qualified immunity. Qualified immunity only protects the officer if the are discharging their duty within the bounds of the law and their training. In those cases where the officer/dept loses the judge or jury will decide the amount of the settlement and the percentage the officer is personally responsible for. Usually it is an 80/20 or 90/10 split so if the officer loses a $10M case he still has to come up with $1M. That means sell your house, liquidate your 401K, sell your boat and motorcycle, and still probably have your wages garnished for 10 or more years. Like I said before, qualified immunity is not bullet proof.
So would that play in if you had a tactical encounter while writing parking tickets
Never saw it. We got the old Motorola movies and reenactments of actual incidents that occurred. These all involved LA cops that got killed.
No shit Perry Mason. That's why you do it right in the first place. I never personally worried about it. The two years of law school I attended made it a lot easier to keep my and any partners I had necks off the block. A cop has no personal liability as long as they fallow department SOP. If there's an actual case a plaintiff can get before a judge the city is on the hook not the cop. The only issue you can have is the manner in which you interpret your departments SOPs. Training and experience is how you get the job done without getting jammed up. No body would be stupid enough to get into law enforcement if it was a suckers bet, if you actually know what your talking about you should be able to figure that out. Like I said I've seen a few that should have been fired but weren't. They probably should have been sued but weren't. They probably should have been prosecuted but weren't. That's the way it goes. Actually getting sued personally if you did it right is always possible but unlikely. The moral of the story is do it right or don't do it. Nothing I ever did in the line of duty kept me awake. Why should it? Ignorance doesn't get you through 40 years as a cop.
How do you think the system should work? Would you take the job if your personally responsible for any liability for doing the job? If you would your an idiot.
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