Encountered a guy at Home Depot rifling through my truck cab.

[hollowoutadime]

So last night about 5pm I make my second trip of the day to Home Depot to get more lumber for my sniper's hide.

The "hide" is a dormer I'm building in the upstairs of my barn that is 133yds to my handgun/rifle range.

Anyway, as I'm buying a pile of 2x4's I park in the last parking spot in the loading zone area. This is the covered area, front of the store. As I pull into the last spot, I notice a parked van to my left with a couple of middle age tweeker types just sitting in the front seats. Don't look like contractors, not DIY homeowners.

Get out of my gladiator, grab a lumber cart - look back with my fob and decide not to lock my truck, thinking "let's watch this play out". I get the plate #. Haul cart into store, park it, and message myself the plate #.

Wait about 15 seconds and head out the other door to see a guy leaning in my passenger compartment, his back to me, on the passenger side. His driver remains in the van. He's rifling through my empty vehicle.

My right hand is on my shield 9mm, ready to drawn from my pocket holster. I startle and command him to exit the vehicle. He's got no visible weapon, but I maintain some distance and try to keep an eye on the driver. Nobody moves. I don't know if he knew I was armed - you guys would have assumed I was by my gestures.

I told him to get back in his vehicle and leave the scene, and to do it now - and if he didn't, I would hurt him. He and his pal back the van up and move on.

I didn't have time to get a pic of him or the vehicle (didn't want to focus on my phone).

After the event, I was surprised I was pretty calm, as I felt like had called in a coyote or some such critter.

The old rule - Always carry and have situational awareness.

Turns out the license plate didn't match the vehicle. I'm sure they're off to another HD to rip off contractors.

I need about a 20" platform in front of the window. That's just a cheap .22 for mockup.

- stay safe out there.

 

[FWoo45]

Here in kali you’d go to the pokey for hunting over bait. Glad nothing escalated and cool project. Looking forward to pics when you’re done.

 

[hollowoutadime]

I have an angled AR500 3/8" steel plate 5'x10' in the back. It's also lighted for night practice. Figured I could use it for load development. Yard is full of whitetails, it's safe haven for them.

 

[79steeler]

Did you report the van and the plate to the police? Take a picture of the van?

 

[jg6.5]

Here in kali you’d go to the pokey for hunting over bait. Glad nothing escalated and cool project. Looking forward to pics when you’re done.

Manufacturing the circumstances in which lethal force is used will send you to the pokey anywhere (or at least Montana as well, given the case below):

Self-Defense Fails in Missoula Man's Murder Trial - Flathead Beacon

MISSOULA — Just days before he killed a 17-year-old German exchange student, Markus Kaarma told hairstylists he had been waiting up to shoot some kids who were burglarizing homes. He told them they would see it on the news. Kaarma hoped to bait an intruder by leaving his garage door partially...

flatheadbeacon.com

OP's description of the events on an internet forum would be used as "Exhibit A" for the state, and an enterprising young DA looking to prove himself/herself will try to stick you with Murder 1.

That aside, my apologies for somewhat derailing this thread - carry on.

 

[Ric O'shay]

I like the hide you are building.
But why would you intentionally not lock the vehicle?
Seems like the golden rule of avoiding conflict was tossed in favor of "let's see" what happens.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Didn't get a picture of the van. Happened fairly quickly and wanted to keep an eye on the suspects. Didn't want them to come out of the van with a weapon. Tougher when there are two of them. I reported it.

 

[TexPatriot]

Too bad you didn't snap a before and after pic of him in your truck and after you surprised him showing his face, along with his vehicle and Lic.#. and then called LE.

Now, someone else is going to have to deal with that trash.

 

[hollowoutadime]

While I agree a pic would have been nice, my focus was on two people that might get out of the van and become aggressive.
As a civilian, I cannot draw and issue deadly threats. The Law doesn't allow that. A empty parked vehicle isn't bait, it's a parked empty vehicle.

 

[jg6.5]

While I agree a pic would have been nice, my focus was on two people that might get out of the van and become aggressive.
As a civilian, I cannot draw and issue deadly threats. The Law doesn't allow that. A empty parked vehicle isn't bait, it's a parked empty vehicle.

[...]

Get out of my gladiator, grab a lumber cart - look back with my fob and decide not to lock my truck, thinking "let's watch this play out". I get the plate #. Haul cart into store, park it, and message myself the plate #.

Wait about 15 seconds and head out the other door to see a guy leaning in my passenger compartment, his back to me, on the passenger side. His driver remains in the van. He's rifling through my empty vehicle.

My right hand is on my shield 9mm, ready to drawn from my pocket holster. I startle and command him to exit the vehicle. He's got no visible weapon, but I maintain some distance and try to keep an eye on the driver. Nobody moves. I don't know if he knew I was armed - you guys would have assumed I was by my gestures.

[...]

I agree that an empty parked vehicle in and of itself isn't bait, but your own words in your first post don't agree with it "just being a parked empty vehicle".

Purposely choosing to not lock your door, purposely returning to the scenario you created, then putting it in writing on a public forum absolutely points to it being bait.

Not in any way excusing the tweakers' behavior, mind you...I've had my own run-in in the past so I get it.

 

[fpgt72]

Manufacturing the circumstances in which lethal force is used will send you to the pokey anywhere (or at least Montana as well, given the case below):

Self-Defense Fails in Missoula Man's Murder Trial - Flathead Beacon

MISSOULA — Just days before he killed a 17-year-old German exchange student, Markus Kaarma told hairstylists he had been waiting up to shoot some kids who were burglarizing homes. He told them they would see it on the news. Kaarma hoped to bait an intruder by leaving his garage door partially...

flatheadbeacon.com

OP's description of the events on an internet forum would be used as "Exhibit A" for the state, and an enterprising young DA looking to prove himself/herself will try to stick you with Murder 1.

That aside, my apologies for somewhat derailing this thread - carry on.

I think it is good you brought this up.

If the worst happens and you do need to use a gun for any reason there is one thing you need to remember, shut the fuck up.

 

[Aftermath]

shut the fuck up.

This is so very hard for the majority of people. If more people were adept at shutting the fuck up, there would be LOTS more unsolved crimes and such.

 

[jg6.5]

I think it is good you brought this up.

If the worst happens and you do need to use a gun for any reason there is one thing you need to remember, shut the fuck up.

Absolutely. That goes for any encounters with law enforcement - I understand that, ideally, they're just "trying to do their job" but, at the same time, it should just be assumed by them that "we're just trying to protect ourselves" and not being obstinate.

 

[wade2big]

Manufacturing the circumstances in which lethal force is used will send you to the pokey anywhere (or at least Montana as well, given the case below):

Self-Defense Fails in Missoula Man's Murder Trial - Flathead Beacon

MISSOULA — Just days before he killed a 17-year-old German exchange student, Markus Kaarma told hairstylists he had been waiting up to shoot some kids who were burglarizing homes. He told them they would see it on the news. Kaarma hoped to bait an intruder by leaving his garage door partially...

flatheadbeacon.com

OP's description of the events on an internet forum would be used as "Exhibit A" for the state, and an enterprising young DA looking to prove himself/herself will try to stick you with Murder 1.

That aside, my apologies for somewhat derailing this thread - carry on.

Cops protecting criminals and attacking good people once again, forcing decent people to live with the artificially inflated criminal class. And you guys wonder why crime is high. Back the blue who serve their gov’t masters unapologetically.

 

[M4orturnate]

I think it is good you brought this up.

If the worst happens and you do need to use a gun for any reason there is one thing you need to remember, shut the fuck up.

Yep and absolutely dont say a gd word online about it

 

[candyx]

First rule in a crisis situation like that is to check if the perp is wearing body armor that way you don't waste your second shot.

 

[jrassy]

I hoped for a happy ending, where you got to turn his head into a canoe.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Just as a note.
1. You should have locked your vehicle, I don't know why you wouldn't for pretty much anytime you park?

2. When you got there and saw suspicious characters, it would have been a good idea to pull out your phone and photograph them (if they see you photograph them the better). License plates / vehicles are often a dead end.

Quite often those types tend to move on if they know somebody is watching them and somebody took their picture.

If they get out and come to challenge you over the picture well then, that's clearly on them.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

hindsight being 20/20 probably should of video the whole thing. Would have made good evidence if you were forced to shoot or not.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I hoped for a happy ending, where you got to turn his head into a canoe.

As much as that sounds great, chances are it would still be a somewhat costly outcome for the good guy thanks to the way many police and DAs tend to be grumpy or pissy about someone doing the job they couldn't be bothered to do. At the very least you may be out your gun for the better part of a year, probably have to give at least a bit of money to a lawyer too.

 

[Maser]

While it's fine for cops to engage in entrapment, civilians can not.

 

[MtnCreek]

hindsight being 20/20 probably should of video the whole thing. Would have made good evidence if you were forced to shoot or not.

Disagree with this.

 

[jg6.5]

Cops protecting criminals and attacking good people once again, forcing decent people to live with the artificially inflated criminal class. And you guys wonder why crime is high. Back the blue who serve their gov’t masters unapologetically.

Unsure if you're just waxing poetic in your usual anarchic tune or implying that I'm a bootlicker...

In the event of the latter - you'd be wise to realize the difference between having a grasp of the system we live in and condoning it.

System aside, vengeance =/= defense. In defense, my conscience is clean. In vengeance is sin.

 

[jg6.5]

While it's fine for cops to engage in entrapment, civilians can not.

Real deal entrapment is illegal.

I get where you're going with this though - LE routinely creates "opportunity" to commit crime but doesn't force people to commit the crime, this is how it isn't considered entrapment. Big point is those who are inclined to do the crime are going to do so, and those who aren't - aren't. Entrapment would be forcing or compelling someone who wasn't inclined to do anything illegal to do so...but I digress.

Back to the opportunity thing - LE can create opportunity to commit crime and it's all fine and dandy...but if WE do it, we can get thrown in prison depending on the outcome.

 

[Expert684]

I would have just triggered my car alarm with my remote just to see if I could get the guy to shit himself!

 

[supercorndogs]

You couldn't they get caught multiple times per day, with people doing everything under sun. They keep moving onto the next place until they steal enough to get their fix.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who gets their shit stolen when they left their car unlocked.

 

[Bullfrog08]

You couldn't they get caught multiple times per day, with people doing everything under sun. They keep moving onto the next place until they steal enough to get their fix.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who gets their shit stolen when they left their car unlocked.

I feel bad for them. We should not be living in a fucking society where you forget to lock your doors, you are somehow NOT a victim. Fuck that mentality!!!!

Im going through stolen catalytic conveters right now. $4k claim with insurance. My fault for not having a cat shield????? Seriously?????

Girl raped for shirt skirt.....not a victim?

Youre smarter than this.....I read all your post.

 

[supercorndogs]

I didn't say they weren't a victim. I said I don't feel sorry for them. They are stupid to be leaving their doors unlocked, and stupid should hurt. Please show me a society that doesn't lock up their valuables. It is literally why locks were invented.

A cat is welded to a vehicle. Its not comparable to leaving your car unlocked and unattended and someone rifling through your shit. We all live in the same world. We all know there are tweakers about looking for an easy steal. Its like feeding bears, they keep coming back because they keep getting fed.

 

[BurtG]

don't feel sorry for anyone who gets their shit stolen when they left their car unlocked.

Shouldn’t have been wearing that skirt eh?

 

[supercorndogs]

Leaving your car unlocked is more like getting piss drunk and staggering around the bad part of town at night.

Do you think long skirts stop rape?

 

[Blue Sky Country]

So last night about 5pm I make my second trip of the day to Home Depot to get more lumber for my sniper's hide.

The "hide" is a dormer I'm building in the upstairs of my barn that is 133yds to my handgun/rifle range.

Anyway, as I'm buying a pile of 2x4's I park in the last parking spot in the loading zone area. This is the covered area, front of the store. As I pull into the last spot, I notice a parked van to my left with a couple of middle age tweeker types just sitting in the front seats. Don't look like contractors, not DIY homeowners.

Get out of my gladiator, grab a lumber cart - look back with my fob and decide not to lock my truck, thinking "let's watch this play out". I get the plate #. Haul cart into store, park it, and message myself the plate #.

Wait about 15 seconds and head out the other door to see a guy leaning in my passenger compartment, his back to me, on the passenger side. His driver remains in the van. He's rifling through my empty vehicle.

My right hand is on my shield 9mm, ready to drawn from my pocket holster. I startle and command him to exit the vehicle. He's got no visible weapon, but I maintain some distance and try to keep an eye on the driver. Nobody moves. I don't know if he knew I was armed - you guys would have assumed I was by my gestures.

I told him to get back in his vehicle and leave the scene, and to do it now - and if he didn't, I would hurt him. He and his pal back the van up and move on.

I didn't have time to get a pic of him or the vehicle (didn't want to focus on my phone).

After the event, I was surprised I was pretty calm, as I felt like had called in a coyote or some such critter.

The old rule - Always carry and have situational awareness.

Turns out the license plate didn't match the vehicle. I'm sure they're off to another HD to rip off contractors.

I need about a 20" platform in front of the window. That's just a cheap .22 for mockup.

View attachment 8003931
- stay safe out there.

Hell, glad everything worked out and you got what you need to continue that kickass project. ALWAYS carry and always be vigilant. Massad Ayoob once said it takes approximately half a second for things to go to hell at any place, any time. You cannot effectively respond, or haul ass if you are distracted or unprepared without the tools on you.

BTW that is one sick shooting spot you got there. Bust some targets enjoying the zen of riflecraft, and dinner, beer, and the computer room with the heat comfortably on is just a flight of stairs and a farmyard away??? Bruh you gittin' us JELLY AS HECK MAN!!!

 

[Int1968]

Frenchie part of canada

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5073888

 

[Kadams1563]

Just take the doors off then the naysayers if you should have locked your doors can’t say anything lol.

I left my front door open officer and the intruder welcomed his way in my house, car, shitter isn’t a thing. Or shouldn’t be rather.

 

[MarinePMI]

I wouldn’t imply that. I would say it. I completely understand the double standard, corruption, and evil that is “our” system of oppression is and the men that force on us for our safety. This doesn’t mean that I won’t point it out for the majority that doesn’t. You like others seem to have more of an issue with me describing how people aren’t free when in any shape or form when living amongst badged men that follow orders of the criminals that hand them their paycheck than you do with the “rule of law” that shackles us.

Do we need to have this discussion again?

 

[jg6.5]

"[1a]I wouldn’t imply that. I would say it. I completely understand the double standard, corruption, and evil that is “our” system of oppression is and the men that force on us for our safety. [1b] This doesn’t mean that I won’t point it out for the majority that doesn’t. [2] You like others seem to have more of an issue with me describing how people aren’t free when in any shape or form when living amongst badged men that follow orders of the criminals that hand them their paycheck than you do with the “rule of law” that shackles us."

@MarinePMI - I don't mean to drag this out, but if you'll allow me I'd like one last word - bit of a pet peeve of mine when, whether inadvertently or purposely, words are put in my mouth to a degree.

@wade2big
[1a] I appreciate the candor here...
[1b] ...but I feel that your bias gives you the wrong impression of me.
[2] I'm well aware of the illusion of choice, and it matters not to me the soapbox on which you stand; just beware the breadth of the brush with which you paint.

That is all.

 

[wade2big]

Do we need to have this discussion again?

I deleted that one just a few minutes after I posted it well over an hour ago. You brought that sucker back from the dead long after it's short life. To your question, no we don't have to have the conversation again. Sometimes I forget that I'm supposed to be silent if not grateful for a gov't and the men within that are hell bent on destroying my way of life.

I'll stay out of the pit for a while and let everyone play pretend while discussing hand crafted talking points from those in charge. Not worth taking a vacation over.

 

[oneshot86]

I call bullshit

Sounds all made up.

If for real, your a dumbass looking for trouble. You'll get what your wishing for if you keep up your dumbassery and prolly get fucked in the ass.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Curious which blue city you live in?

 

[Maser]

I deleted that one just a few minutes after I posted it well over an hour ago. You brought that sucker back from the dead long after it's short life. To your question, no we don't have to have the conversation again. Sometimes I forget that I'm supposed to be silent if not grateful for a gov't and the men within that are hell bent on destroying my way of life.

I'll stay out of the pit for a while and let everyone play pretend while discussing hand crafted talking points from those in charge. Not worth taking a vacation over.

At the end of the day this is Frank's house and we all are just guests at his party. He's been pretty lenient in our privileges of saying what we want, when we want, and to whoever we want. He's even relaxed his rules regarding politics and cop talk. His rules about anti-government talk has nothing to do with wanting to silence us. It's to protect members here who are active duty who could get in trouble being at a forum where anti-government talk is allowed to flourish.

There's a time and a place for foolish pride. Check your watch. I know you're Texan and all, but still check your watch. If an autistic cunt like me understands that, there's no reason why you cannot.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Say something to the management at HD.

They have cameras, maybe a description of perp or a heads up to look out for that van.

Glad you caught that fucker in the act

 

[NoDopes]

Too bad you didn't snap a before and after pic of him in your truck and after you surprised him showing his face, along with his vehicle and Lic.#. and then called LE.

Now, someone else is going to have to deal with that trash.

Well.... I have to wonder how many more poored over our "secure" southern border in the last 2 years? Fuck me.

While I agree a pic would have been nice, my focus was on two people that might get out of the van and become aggressive.
As a civilian, I cannot draw and issue deadly threats. The Law doesn't allow that. A empty parked vehicle isn't bait, it's a parked empty vehicle.

I don't think leaving the doors unlocked is a trap.. too bad I wasn't on the garage door jury either.
Having said that, there are several circumstances in Texas where you could shoot somebody doing this. Check our deadly use of force laws.

 

[Short-bus]

Manufacturing the circumstances in which lethal force is used will send you to the pokey anywhere (or at least Montana as well, given the case below):

Self-Defense Fails in Missoula Man's Murder Trial - Flathead Beacon

MISSOULA — Just days before he killed a 17-year-old German exchange student, Markus Kaarma told hairstylists he had been waiting up to shoot some kids who were burglarizing homes. He told them they would see it on the news. Kaarma hoped to bait an intruder by leaving his garage door partially...

flatheadbeacon.com

OP's description of the events on an internet forum would be used as "Exhibit A" for the state, and an enterprising young DA looking to prove himself/herself will try to stick you with Murder 1.

That aside, my apologies for somewhat derailing this thread - carry on.

Dude probly would have been fine if he hadn't run his cock holster to his barber. Plus, hard to claim you're in fear for your life when you shoot through a garage door. Pretty impressive he hit the kid though.

Branden

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Locks just keep an honest man honest.
I have had multiple things taken from the back of pick-ups at Lowe's and Home Depot. I have since gone to using utility bed trucks with lockable cabinets.

OP. You should have at least punched him in the face.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

One thing this discussion has proven... Even here, it is a House Divided....

 

[Maser]

One thing this discussion has proven... Even here, it is a House Divided....

To me it has proven that lots of folks are VERY misinformed as to when you can LEGALLY use lethal force. The most oppressed people in this country are not blacks, whites, gays, straights, etc. The most oppressed people in this country are folks who are ignorant of the laws. Laws are deliberately written to be hard to understand by everyday Joes. I haven't given much useful advice in the 16+ years I been here, but you all should spend some of your extra time to learn up on not only your state and local laws, but federal as well. Remember that judges and the DA are elected officials and they rely on putting people in prison to bolster their political careers. They are NOT your friends.

 

[Ronws]

When I was carrying a state commission to carry a firearm on duty back in the mid-80s, you could use deadly force in defense of life, property, and assets. To the point, a repo man took a vehicle and the owner shot and killed the repo man. The owner was no-billed by the grand jury. Nowadays, it is different. Other than stand your ground, in Texas, you can only use deadly force if being burglarized at night. Because it could be assumed your life is in danger if you are inside.

This exact issue came up in my LTC class. A young lady in the class brought up the situation that was perfect to illustrate the legal question. What if she had a business and she was driving by and saw someone trying to break in? The instructor asked her to clarify. It could be a drunk guy rattling the wrong door., for example. So, she said it was someone using a pry bar to try and open the door. Then, technically, yes. But should you?

I thought about it a moment. I would not shoot. I would not even engage the suspect. I would drive on by and circle around and park in a place where I could watch and the crook or crooks not see me. From there, I would call 911 and tell them my name, my car, I am armed but have not drawn my weapon. People are breaking into my business, please, send help. Let the police arrive and shoot them.

If I shoot them, the DA and later, the crook's family lawyer will ask at what point did I feel my life was threatened to the point of need strong or deadly force?

That happened in real life to a woman was almost home and saw her boyfriend's truck was driving the other way and it was not her boyfriend. She knew it was stolen. She followed after the guy and shot and killed him. And now she is prosecuted for murder. Her life was not in danger, the burglary already happened. She should have called the police while following him safely, if possible.

It might be tempting to introduce a rifle to someone rifling through the truck but I would advise against it. Freedom also has responsibility.

 

[Redmanss]

Remember that judges and the DA are elected officials and they rely on putting people in prison to bolster their political careers.

That's not how the VP bolstered her career...

Biggest takeaway from this whole thread is LOCK UP YOUR SHIT. You don't have to be the hardest target, but don't be stupid. Thieves are everywhere and no matter how much we want to, we can't legally shoot them for being scum. I had a storage unit broken into last week, several thousand dollars worth of shit gone. And this is in small town Wyoming where we do shoot.

I'll just say this: If you're a thief I hope you, very literally, fucking die a horrid death. Pics or we can't enjoy it happening.

 

[MarinePMI]

When I was carrying a state commission to carry a firearm on duty back in the mid-80s, you could use deadly force in defense of life, property, and assets. To the point, a repo man took a vehicle and the owner shot and killed the repo man. The owner was no-billed by the grand jury. Nowadays, it is different. Other than stand your ground, in Texas, you can only use deadly force if being burglarized at night. Because it could be assumed your life is in danger if you are inside.

This exact issue came up in my LTC class. A young lady in the class brought up the situation that was perfect to illustrate the legal question. What if she had a business and she was driving by and saw someone trying to break in? The instructor asked her to clarify. It could be a drunk guy rattling the wrong door., for example. So, she said it was someone using a pry bar to try and open the door. Then, technically, yes. But should you?

I thought about it a moment. I would not shoot. I would not even engage the suspect. I would drive on by and circle around and park in a place where I could watch and the crook or crooks not see me. From there, I would call 911 and tell them my name, my car, I am armed but have not drawn my weapon. People are breaking into my business, please, send help. Let the police arrive and shoot them.

If I shoot them, the DA and later, the crook's family lawyer will ask at what point did I feel my life was threatened to the point of need strong or deadly force?

That happened in real life to a woman was almost home and saw her boyfriend's truck was driving the other way and it was not her boyfriend. She knew it was stolen. She followed after the guy and shot and killed him. And now she is prosecuted for murder. Her life was not in danger, the burglary already happened. She should have called the police while following him safely, if possible.

It might be tempting to introduce a rifle to someone rifling through the truck but I would advise against it. Freedom also has responsibility.

And therein lies the argument. What is legal, and what is right/wrong. While it may not be legal to shoot someone for breaking into your home, (IMHO) it should be. That person has decided that they are willing to risk their life to take your property (that the thief did not work for). When they cross that line, I kind of feel they deserve whatever they get.

It certainly would reduce crime, and in a hurry, if they knew a victim could legally kill them for trying to steal their property. Perhaps that is where our legal system has gone off the rails...it no longer reflects morality, only the word of the law. But I digress...

FWIW, the OP (IMHO) was playing a dangerous game, and I would recommend others not try the same thing. That being said, I get the morality aspect of him, discerning what is happening, and trying to prevent it. I just wouldn't recommend it, in the current legal state of our society.

JMTCW...

 

[MarinePMI]

That's not how the VP bolstered her career...

Biggest takeaway from this whole thread is LOCK UP YOUR SHIT. You don't have to be the hardest target, but don't be stupid. Thieves are everywhere and no matter how much we want to, we can't legally shoot them for being scum. I had a storage unit broken into last week, several thousand dollars worth of shit gone. And this is in small town Wyoming where we do shoot.

I'll just say this: If you're a thief I hope you, very literally, fucking die a horrid death. Pics or we can't enjoy it happening.

This too. ^^^^

 

[BurtG]

And now she is prosecuted for murder. Her life was not in danger, the burglary already happened.

Thieves steal a part of your life

The time it took to work for the item
The time it took to find and purchase the item
The time dealing with the police etc
The time to find a new item

Thieves should be hung.