Enfields!

[ranger1183]

<--------- NOT mine!

Since we have a Vintage sniper rifle section now, I wanted a thread to talk about Lee Enfield rifles. Post your pictures, information and most important, links to gunsmiths who work on these old treasures.

Interesting sites containing Enfield Information (links copied from the Lee Enfield Rifle Association website)

The Lee Enfield Rifle Association
http://www.leeenfieldrifleassociation.org.uk/

TOMMY ATKINS MEDIA LEE ENFIELD DVD
http://www.tommyatkinsmedia.com/

303 BRITISH PAGE
http://www.303british.com

BIRMINGHAM GUN BARREL PROOF HOUSE
http://www.gunproof.com/

HEADSTAMPS OF THE .303 BRITISH
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html

ENFIELD STUFF
http://www.enfield-stuff.com/index.htm

NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION (UK)
http://www.nra.org.uk

THE ARMOURER MAGAZINE
http://www.armourer.co.uk/

E BAY AUCTIONS ITEMS MATCHING ENFIELD
http://cq-search.ebay.co.uk/search/searc...rty=MetaEndSort

ENFIELD ENFORCERS
http://www.amstevens.fsnet.co.uk/

LEE ENFIELD SPARE PARTS
http://www.Lee-Enfield-Spares.co.uk

Curio and Relic Firearms Forum
http://pub176.ezboard.com/fcurioandrelicfirearmsforumfrm4

Reproduction World War One Labels, and other Interesting items.
http://www.tommyspackfillers.com

Screw Threads used on Enfield Rifles (Handy Info)
http://freespace.virgin.net/j.franklin/toys/thread-table.htm

Ian Skennertons Enfield and Books Site (Well worth a visit)
http://www.skennerton.com/

EARLY LEE ENFIELD RIFLE PHOTOS
http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/EarlyLees.html

HISTORICAL BREECHLOADING SMALLARMS ASSOCIATION
http://www.hbsa.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm

HISTORIC ARMS RESOURCE CENTER (HARC)
Miniture Rifle league
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/

EFD The Enfield Specialists.
http://www.efdrifles.com/index.php

Classic Gun Company
http://www.classicguncompany.co.uk

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Enfields!

Here's a great Enfield thread from BasraBoy!

 

[Graham]

Re: Enfields!

I was brought-up on Enfields: My first 1000-yard rifle; free floated it, with a 2-groove barrel, vernier caliper rear sight and 180gr boat-tails. Learned to drill with it, too.... a well-balanced rifle.

 

[armydog]

Re: Enfields!

mine will out shoot all my M1903's and my M1.....

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Enfields!

Does it have to be Lee Enfields? Can my Eddystone Play?

I do my on work on my surplus rifles, trying to keep them "as issued".

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Enfields!

ranger1183 - thanks for that, saved me posting the pic again!

Would add Brian Dick to your list of US based Enfield specialists:

www.bdlltd.com

..and for the real "anoraks" try a trip over to www.milsurps.com - the "Knowledge Library" and Enfield forum are well worth joining up for. Skennerton and Laidler are regular contributors over there and very approachable via PM if you need help/advice on things Enfield...or in Peter's case, anything to do with British/Commonwealth military issue weapons.

 

[ThorUSMC3209]

Re: Enfields!

after i get my fathers back to shooting condition i'll post a picture of it. Its pretty rough looking now (Eddystone M1917)

 

[Graham]

Re: Enfields!

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=350_351_360&osCsid=f281aa441c3221a628bfa906e4cf71e7

Have a look at their curios and relics page:
http://www.bdlltd.com/Home.html

 

[BobC]

Re: Enfields!

Not a T but I still like it.

 

[IronSights2011]

Re: Enfields!

Right out of the box (er, or cosmoline) my Enfield outshoot just about any other bolt action I have. The only bummer is the in availability of surplus .303 these days.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Enfields!

BobC - great looking No4 and a superb save!! Thanks for sharing.

I've posted the link to your project page....hope you don't mind?

http://bobsstuffandnonsense.blogspot.com/2011/06/my-ongoing-project-1941-long-branch-no.html

 

[IronSights2011]

Re: Enfields!

Basra and BobC,

That Enfield rocks! I've been procrastinating on refinishing my stock and rebluing. Seeing what BobC did is inspiring.

 

[whitetailnut]

Re: Enfields!


Ishy .308

Eddystone

 

[TackleberryH3]

Re: Enfields!

1942 Lithgow Mk1 No.III* S.M.L.E.

1943 Savage Arms Mk4 No.I* (Lend/Lease)

 

[madcratebuilder]

Re: Enfields!

Guys, sorry but I have to raise the bullshit flag on a few things.

Read the Laidler (T) book and the Skennerton books. You can find a free down load of "The Lee Enfield Rifle" by Major E.G.B. Reynolds. This 287 page book written in 1960 is the bible and ALL others borrow from it.

The No4 Lee Enfield is not a MOA rifle and was never intended to be one. Built for minute of man, even the No4(T) is not a moa rifle. It was expected to shoot minute of man at 400 yds and had a realistic maximum range of 800 yds.

Don't expect a new from the wrap MkII to shoot well until you have a hundred or more rounds fired, these Faz barrels take some break in time.

If your No4 shoots better than 2 moa you have a very good one. A few three shoot groups under 2 moa doesn't mean you have a sub 2 moa rifle. Shoot four, ten round groups and average the size. Even a blind pig finds an acorn occasionally.

I bought my first Enfield fifty years ago and have been addicted ever since, often thought I was cured but I always relapse.

The pride of the LE collection. A 1944 BSA No4(T). Warren Wheatfield rebuild the No32 scope a few years ago. The scope now has positive clicks and tracks properly. Thanks to Brian Dick at BDL for the repark and Suncorite finish on the No32 mount.

A recent addition is the 43 Longbranch, FTR'ed to a Mk1/3 in 1953 by Faz, it has all new parts except the receiver. The rifle went to India after FTR, appears to have remained in storage untill imported to US, appears unfired since FTR, it is basicly a new rifle.

A special pair of UF55 MkII's Note the serial numbers. I acquired these several years apart. 9078 I unwrapped and 9077 had a round count under 100 according to the owner.

Everyone needs at least one Irish contract MkII. This sat around in the wrap until I couldn't stand it any longer.

New born.

One of the better shooting Faz No4's.

Prized MkI (no star) Savage.

Birth defect?

Highly prized spares.

I'll stop now.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Enfields!

so what's the story with that shortened endfield?

 

[Win70chris]

Re: Enfields!

I shot a 3 shot .49 inch group at 100 with my L39A1 with 155 SMK handloads. Have not scoped any of my .303's but they seem to get better the further out I get.

 

[chris223]

Re: Enfields!

Great looking rifles. When mine gets back ill post some picks.

 

[jagged77]

Re: Enfields!

My collection. No No.4T unfortunately, they are around but very expensive! Lots of club members where I shoot own Enfields and we have around 6 or so competitions a year just for the classic rifles.

The jungle carbine is great fun to shoot and surprisingly accurate with fireformed brass.

 

[gprippers]

Re: Enfields!

I bought a 65 rifle collection comprised of all WW1 and WW2 weapons. After i got them home and started cleaning and catologuing, i found that i had 4 jungle carbines that were in mint/unissued condition. I also had quite a few canadian built rifles that were in primo condition. I let buddies have them at cut rate prices and they were as happy as could be and i made my money as well. Really are cool rifles that have been all over the world doing the bidding of the brits!

 

[WVgunsmith]

Re: Enfields!

When I really got into shooting around 1996. Enfields we're dime a doz. A good one could be picked up for 60 bucks. I wish I had bought a ton of them. I picked up a #4 Mark 2 and it was a great shooter. I missed a jungle carbine a few years back. Still kicking myself over it.

Scott

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Enfields!

If you have some age on you then you will remember ye old hunter had them for $9.99 ea and a lot of discount stores did also. 20 mm lotie anti tank guns for $99.99 with skids or wheels and ammo was cheap. Now just a memory.

 

[Remoah]

Re: Enfields!

Jungle Carbine... the original Scout Rifle.

 

[eric BPCR]

Re: Enfields!

Hi !

this is my enfield N°4 MK 1/2 (T) on the range.
1944 2 grooves.

Reticle is no so easy, and clics mecanism of the scope isn't so accurate, but rifle is fine to shoot.
The 2 grooves barrel groups with the classical sierra 174 grains HPBT.
In red you can see the last group i've did on the 600 meters paper target.

best regards
eric

 

[mike1430]

Re: Enfields!

I have a No4 Mk1 Savage marked US Property Ser 5C2285, 1942.
I am looking for info on this rifle. What are the good books for the Enfields.
Thanks

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Enfields!

Not the only book by any means...but have a look at Ian Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield" - big book, big price tag but more info than you will probably ever need

The Reynolds book madcratebuilder refers to is long out of print - however if you feel the need...there's a "used copy" on Amazon for GB£ 150.00!

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Enfields!

shooter4570 -
to post pictures, put

behind the jpg link.

Each jpg must have its own set of

for the image to show.

 

[eric BPCR]

Re: Enfields!

Okay, it's done

thank's Ranger1183

 

[shooter.dm]

Re: Enfields!

What would yall say is the better model the most accurate?

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Enfields!

Shooter 4570- that Enfield sniper rifle is pretty awesome!

I saw one at a show once- minty with a scope in the original shipping crate in pine shavings or something like that- it was incredible to see- but I think they wanted $2500 and I didn't have half that to spend.

Nice rifle!- Good to see it's grouping pretty well also- I remember an old Army study in one of peter senichz books which showed the 03 Springfield shooting the best groups was a 2 groove shooting groups of only ~4-6" at 600- I don't think the number of grooves have anything to do with accuracy in light of that.

 

[longguntoter]

Re: Enfields!

You guys sure have some nice Enfields there. The few I have seen around my area are pretty rough at best, and the prices are through the roof!

 

[Clay_James]

Re: Enfields!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madcratebuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Prized MkI (no star) Savage.

</div></div>

I have one that was sporterized by someone years ago

I plan on restoring it to look as original as possible. I feel it's my duty to history now that I own it. Were they white metal originally?

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Enfields!

Finish is going to depend on year of manufacture, model of rifle and probably manufacturer too. A lot of thing changed in the 60 or so years the rifle was in production/service

Originally Enfields were blued, later on (No4's and No5's for example) were painted with a finish called Suncorite. Some later wartime parts were also parkerized (for example barrel bands, sight protectors, buttplates on No4 Mk2* production from Long Branch). Not sure of the date at which the finish changed.

It is very hard to find anyone who does Suncorite these days because of the H&S implications of either the substance or process as far as I understand. Although there is a guy in the UK I've heard about who does it.

Some seem to duracote or cerakote restorations these days - nice but just looks wrong.

If you have a receiver in the white, I'd be tempted to get it hot blued - just my £0.02

 

[mike1430]

Re: Enfields!

Did Savage make a number 4 mk1 in 1942 with adjustable rear sight.

 

[_RJ_]

Re: Enfields!

My grandpa gave me an Enfield years back. Don't know much about it, it has Lithgow markings on it. Also 1919 with roman numeral 3. All the markings seem to be the same from one to the other. Still has a lot of packing grease on / in it, but it's used for sure. I guess it would be interesting to find out more about it. It just sits in the safe.

 

[Clay_James]

Re: Enfields!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Finish is going to depend on year of manufacture, model of rifle and probably manufacturer too. A lot of thing changed in the 60 or so years the rifle was in production/service

Originally Enfields were blued, later on (No4's and No5's for example) were painted with a finish called Suncorite. Some later wartime parts were also parkerized (for example barrel bands, sight protectors, buttplates on No4 Mk2* production from Long Branch). Not sure of the date at which the finish changed.

It is very hard to find anyone who does Suncorite these days because of the H&S implications of either the substance or process as far as I understand. Although there is a guy in the UK I've heard about who does it.

Some seem to duracote or cerakote restorations these days - nice but just looks wrong.

If you have a receiver in the white, I'd be tempted to get it hot blued - just my £0.02 </div></div>

Interesting,
I have three more No.4s from various years and makers. The first is a Maltby that is blued. Second is a Long Branch that's painted. The third is an FTR which is painted.

I was wondering about that Savage since it's in the white and so was mine. I wound up painting mine semi-gloss to look like my other painted ones. Now to round up some Savage parts and fix it up like it's supposed to be.

 

[Clay_James]

Re: Enfields!

Here's my no star Savage before I painted it. The trigger guard is really weird, almost looks like it was home made.

 

[Loner]

Re: Enfields!

Like that Enfield Clay_James had one years ago just like it wish I still had it

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Enfields!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clay_James</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's my no star Savage before I painted it. The trigger guard is really weird, almost looks like it was home made.

</div></div>

I think that is just WW2 production - my Long Branch '44 is the same - stamped, not milled is my guess?

 

[eric BPCR]

Re: Enfields!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter.dm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would yall say is the better model the most accurate? </div></div>

Yes it's a N°4 (T) rifle and is original barrel (with same serial numbers) it's difficul to realise good groups because this scope have an important paralax (visible when you see the reticle and move your eye when rifle is at rest).
At 600 meters this paralax can move the bullet hit from approximativly 25 inch ....

 

[madcratebuilder]

Re: Enfields!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so what's the story with that shortened endfield?

</div></div>

It's a take off of the "tanker" style mil-surps you see. This one started as a short barrel sporter and I used spares the piece it together.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1430</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a No4 Mk1 Savage marked US Property Ser 5C2285, 1942.
I am looking for info on this rifle. What are the good books for the Enfields.
Thanks
</div></div>

A 5C Savage is a early rifle with the standard bolt release. In restored condition these can be considerable higher value than the later war time expedient bolt release Savage No4's.

IMHO it's worth while to restore with the correct parts.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter.dm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would yall say is the better model the most accurate? </div></div>

IMO the post war No4 MkII Faz made rifles are the best shooters. These would be the UF and PF prefix serial numbers. Among the war time rifles the Maltby and BSA get the vote from me.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clay_James</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: madcratebuilder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Prized MkI (no star) Savage.

</div></div>

I have one that was sporterized by someone years ago

I plan on restoring it to look as original as possible. I feel it's my duty to history now that I own it. Were they white metal originally? </div></div>

Original finish was "oil blacken" The parts went from heat treat in to vats of oil, the oil was allowed to burn off leaving a black finish to the steel. It appears to be blued but it is not.

As this finish wore away the approved coating was "Suncorite" I very hard paint that when properly applied looks very nice. You may see some India service rifles that had Suncorite brushed on from half hardened cans, it looks like dog poop.

Some late Long Branch No4's had a parkerized finish.

Duracote, Cerakote or Aluma-hyde could be used.

Brain at BDL can replicate the Suncorite finish (does great work) and that's what I would use on a valuable restoration. Restoring a more common No4 I would have it parked or painted.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1430</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did Savage make a number 4 mk1 in 1942 with adjustable rear sight. </div></div>

Yes, very difficult to find, they started using the war time expedient flip sight in late 42.
Here's a S Savage marked backsight also a Long Branch marked sight, again hard to find item.

LE backsights

The milled Mark I backsights are all very similar, different stamp marks are the major difference.

 

[Joop]

Re: Enfields!

Great thread! I love Enfields. I own several and have owned many others. I've been working on a project recently, however, that I was hoping I could get finished and posted here, asap. Well, it finally all came together, in the last week.

About a year or so ago, I was surfing Gunbroker and found this rifle. I almost hit the back button, after seeing <span style="font-style: italic">yet another</span> butchered, sporter rifle. But, just before I clicked "back", something caught my eye...

After some questioning of the seller and a little more research, I confirmed that this was exactly what I thought it was; a 1942 Savage No.4 Mk.I* that had been converted to a (T) sniper, by Holland and Holland. So, I bought it. It's taken me all this time to get it back to something that even comes close to representing it's former glory. It's not perfect, but it's real, it shoots and it's probably as close as I'll ever come to owning a complete one. The best part, is that instead of paying $3-5k for one, I'm in it for under $500, total.

Mount and cheek rest are repros from Numrich. Forend and handguards are Fazakerly unissued examples. The butt is the original and still had the plugged holes from where the original cheek rest had been mounted and somebody removed it to make this "huntin' rifle". I just found a Weaver K2.5 with post reticle, on Saturday and installed it last night. I got her out today to test with a couple handloads. Nothing amazing, but a good start, for sure.

Here's a couple targets. I've actually shot better groups with the iron sights, but I'm just getting things dialed in, for now. First target was the other day, with a cheap old BSA scope at 75 yds. Second is from today, using the Weaver at 100 yards. From here, I think there's nowhere to go but up!

John

 

[rpk762]

Re: Enfields!

Those are some nice looking rifles. I want one now.

 

[RemmyMaxhit]

Re: Enfields!

I just got my grandfather's '42 savage mk1* passed down to me over the holidays. Got it all apart. Surface rust cleaned up with steel wool and a bit of hand applied antique oxpo-blue, all the cosmolene cleaned out. Waiting for some .303 and linseed oil. In the meantime, the bottom forestock is a bit loose and warped laterally. I found some '60s era info on stock bedding, whcih I think will be helpful in this case, but on the other hand, dont want to take away any of the originality. Thoughts?

 

[crazybrit]

Re: Enfields!

Great pics and info.I've got a No'4 MK1 Longbranch . Will try and get pics up.

 

[Joop]

Re: Enfields!

Got a new one, today. It's an Ishapore 2A1 in 7.62x51.

I had bought some Radway Green surplus, last week. Shot it in my M1A and that rifle really likes it. This Enfield, however,.....Ummm.....no!

It shoots really high, but I have since switched out the front blade for a higher one, so we'll see how it goes next time. Even though the surplus loads sucked, it surprised me by shooting a very nice group with my pet plinking load for my M1A. The first two were high, then the third low (but still about five inches above POA). I was worried that something was wrong, but every shot after that went into one spot. So, I think it just needed to be seated again, after I tore it down to clean it up. Should be a fun plinker and I may even take it to a local CMP shoot.

100 Yard group with hanldoads:

Apparently, these rifles are notorious for having feeding issues with the magazines and often take a little tweaking of the feed lips. This one was no exception. Tonight, I did a little "persuading", as well as cleaning a pound of crap out of the mag and she's running a lot smoother, now. Looking forward to getting out for some longer range work.

John

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Enfields!

40.4-40.7 gr. AR Comp with the 174 SMK is giving me some pretty ridiculous accuracy in my Savage Mk4No1*. Does better than Varget...

 

[crazybrit]

Re: Enfields!

Here's some pics of my NO.4 MK1 1944 Longbranch made in Canada.

 

[RemmyMaxhit]

Re: Enfields!

OK, heres mine fresh from its first restoration since 1946. 100% all matching Savage (even the magazine has matching serial #)

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Enfields!

RemmyMaxhit - nice job....my '44 LB is also all matching numbers including mag and the woodwork.

Hope it shoots as well as it looks.

But to keep it looking "pretty"....you need to put your sling on the right way round or pretty quickly the ends of the brass buckles will dent aned scratch your woodwork.