Rifle Scopes Entry Level PRS Scope for 1k - 5-25x50 Viper PST Gen 2 or Burris XTR II? Illumination?

[Mike_R]

I want to upgrade glass from my Bushnell Elite 10x scope and I have been leaning towards picking up a Burris XTR II in 5-25 or 4-20. My LR experience is limited as I am primarily a USPSA and carbine shooter. I haven't really used the illumination on my 1-4x carbine scopes. I haven't shot a PRS style match yet so I am not very well informed in that regard, although I have read up on the scopes a lot. I don't really have a lot of experience with a particular reticle although I think I want to go to a mil/mil style system.

Should I spend the extra money on the XTR II for illumination? I am hoping to get a solid setup together that can serve as a backup when I upgrade later on if I end up sticking with it. I have store credit at Opticsplanet, plus the XTR rebate is still on. I was thinking of the SCR Mil reticle, but if I am going illuminated anyway I would consider the H59.

Also, just in the interest of keeping an open mind I have been considering the Viper PST Gen 2. It comes illuminated, in around the same price range. I have 1" rings now, so there isn't an incentive to go for a 30mm vs a 34mm except for the travel/light transmission of the bigger tube on the XTR II.

Thoughts?

 

[NewsShooter]

I'd get the GenII, even though I haven't laid my hands on one yet. Sold my XTRII as the glass wasn't that great to my eyes. Turrets and reticle were great. I have a Bushnell DMR as well and every time I had them out together I'd be surprised at how much better the Bushnell was for clarity.

 

[Tactical Taz]

I am also a new shooter and have been using the XTR-II 5-25 this year. The glass has been pretty good to my eye. I can look through it all day and not be fatigued. I am 24 and don't have any vision problems. My XTR-II has tracked true for me and the turrets feel pretty good. The parallax I have found to be pretty forgiving. The SCR is a great reticle. It is simple but very useful. I have not used the illumination once this year. I have seen some people, however, mention they use illumination during the day for dark targets. I personally have not used that and I have shot some stages with black targets on black/brown mud backgrounds, but I think that depends on your eyes also. My Burris has also been very durable. I had someone walk by my gun at the range while I was checking a target and bumped it over, falling about 36" on the windage cap and it held zero and remains to track true. I know this doesn't answer the question of PST vs XTR-II but hopefully my experience is reassuring if you decide to go the XTR-II route. I have seen some debate light transmission of a bigger tube. I think mainly the bigger tube allows more internal adjustment. But again I am no expert and may be off target on that one.

 

[Niles Coyote]

In my four years of shoot PRS style matches I have yet to ever need illumination.

 

[Poorboyr]

I have two of the Burris XTR II's, a 5-25 and 3-15. For the money, I don't think there is a better scope out there. I have never missed a shot because of the scope. Sitting side by side with my ATACR and USO, there really isn't a huge difference. Difference yes, but not a tremendous one. I have a Viper Pst 1-4, so I really can't comment on your post. However, if you do go with the Viper, definitely get the Gen II. I really dislike the shim system in the Gen I scopes.

About Illumination, I agree wtih the post above. I don't think I have ever turned my illumination on except to mess with it. By you will get more for the scope if you have it when you go to sell it. People seem to want illumination. I guess it's kind of like leather seats.....

 

[blbennett1288]

The XTRII is good to go and I would buy with confidence. The $100 rebate is still in effect, which to me makes it a no brainer compared to the PST GENII.

I would also look at the Bushnell LRTS and LRHS. If you can save a bit more and get into the $1300-1400 you can find used DMRIIs and T5XIs in the Optics PX which to me are steals.

 

[Mikhailovich]

The illumination on my xtr2 4-20 scr is not daylight bright. I can't even see a hint of red on max setting. So I don't think it will be of much use for you. The glass in mine isn't bad but it does fatigue my eye pretty quick. I would go with the gen2 pst and if you don't like it, then I'm sure someone here would be happy to trade an xtr2 for it, including myself

 

[pineoak]

If you can afford it, go Razor Gen 2 4.5-27x and don't look back.

illumination is rarely needed as most matches/ranges close at dark it's not just whether you can see your reticle... can you even see your TARGET???

I stopped putting batteries into my scopes a while ago.

Yes, Vortex below Razor level do require warranty work, but my experience with Burris QC has been less than impressive with multiple examples of new optics


RG2 >>> PST Gen2 > XTR 4-20x > XTR 5-25x

 

[ssdrew]

I'm in the same boat and was considering those 2 and a Razor Gen 1. From what I have read, the razor should have better glass and is built like a tank. Can anyone comment on real world experience? I know the Gen 1 razors can be had used in the 1200 range.

 

[Iamero]

The XTR II is great and I own a couple, but the clarity isn't anything astounding. The turrets are really nice and I like the features, but my biggest complaint is how thick both the G2B and SCR reticle are. I wish they would put something thinner on there similar to the G2 reticle from Bushnell or the EBR series reticle on the Vortex.

For the money, I would get a Gen II PST or a Bushnell DMR or ERS with G2 reticle.

 

[Mike_R]

So far, it looks pretty split between the two initial options, plus some suggestions for others to look into. I appreciate the feedback! I would like to figure out a way to look through both of them before I buy, so I will work on that. Maybe I will try to shoot a match with my current Bushnell, as well.

I have a request for price match in on the XTR II 5-25, if I can get it for a low enough price and get the rebate I might take a chance on it. It is in stock where I have store credit, where the PST Gen II is not.

I could look at buying used. I was hoping to use the store credit, but I could probably apply that towards other parts if needed.

As far as a Razor Gen 2, while I would love to do it I am really looking to test the waters at this point. I have no problem spending money, if needed, but I want to shoot some matches and make sure it is something I will want to stick with. I've had one off race guns built for USPSA, but I shot my first few matches with a Glock before I commissioned the builds. I am looking to do something similar here- find something that will be reliable and allow me to try my hand at the sport, and hopefully eventually become back up gear. I have had a few guys at the range suggest one of the new Athlons, or even a $500 Leupold just to get into variable magnification and out to a match, but I was hoping to get something FFP that would serve me well until I outgrow it.

 

[blbennett1288]

So far, it looks pretty split between the two initial options, plus some suggestions for others to look into. I appreciate the feedback! I would like to figure out a way to look through both of them before I buy, so I will work on that. Maybe I will try to shoot a match with my current Bushnell, as well.

I have a request for price match in on the XTR II 5-25, if I can get it for a low enough price and get the rebate I might take a chance on it. It is in stock where I have store credit, where the PST Gen II is not.

I could look at buying used. I was hoping to use the store credit, but I could probably apply that towards other parts if needed.

As far as a Razor Gen 2, while I would love to do it I am really looking to test the waters at this point. I have no problem spending money, if needed, but I want to shoot some matches and make sure it is something I will want to stick with. I've had one off race guns built for USPSA, but I shot my first few matches with a Glock before I commissioned the builds. I am looking to do something similar here- find something that will be reliable and allow me to try my hand at the sport, and hopefully eventually become back up gear. I have had a few guys at the range suggest one of the new Athlons, or even a $500 Leupold just to get into variable magnification and out to a match, but I was hoping to get something FFP that would serve me well until I outgrow it.

For what it is worth the Bushnell DMRII/LRTS/LRHS or Vortex PST GENII would be easier to resell here than the Burris XTRIIs. If you are looking to unload it and not keep it for something else when you upgrade.

If you want a Razor GEN2 but dont want to fork over the money I personally think the Bushnell DMRII or Steiner T5Xi will leave you wanting very little. I have compared both to the Razor GEN2 and yes it is noticeable that the Razor GEN2 is nicer but at what cost? Used $500 new $1000?

The T5Xi experiences some CA, but other than that I think it is an awesome package for the $1300-1500 you can find them at. That said the Kahles k624i even has CA and is a $3k scope. Ilya even recommends the T5Xi as his pick for sub 2k scopes. 5-25x56, FFP, ZS, 12mils per turn, second rev indication, illum, Heritage Warranty

The DMRII glass is better than the T5Xi and on par with the Razor Gen2. These can be found in the PX for $1300-1400. 3.5-21x50, FFP, ZS, locking turret, 10 mils per turn, illum, Ironclad Warranty.

I own a T5Xi and have been thinking of picking up a DMRII, testing both, and selling whichever I like less. Sure, I can afford higher end scopes, but I feel there is a point of diminishing returns and in this market, right now, to me, it is the $1500 mark. It is really for you to determine where the value is and at what price point.

Honestly, I would go to some PRS matches and see what everyone is running. Sure there are a ton of Razor GEN2s but you would be surprised at the amount of Bushnells and Burris being run.

 

[longshot2000]

If you can afford it, go Razor Gen 2 4.5-27x and don't look back.

OP asked for an affordable scope, and you at least doubled his budget. Sure, I like the BMW over the VW, but in the VW price catagory, you have to look at Ford and Nissan.

I think he picked two very good options, the PST Gen 2, and the Burris XTR-ii. Both are good. I like the Burris over the PST, but that is personal. I would strongly advise against either of the Vortex Gen 1 scopes, which for me, did not seem fit for consumption, and the same with the Bushnell Gen 1 DMR series. The Bushnell ERS comes into play, but it seems more like DMR Gen 1.5, and I just don't like it. The Steiner T5Xi, after fixing a very poorly tested rollout, is solid. I have one in 15x, and it is great, but it is more expensive than the budget indicated.

I suggest weighing the PST Gen 2 and the Burris XTR-ii, and seeing what features and reticles you like. My choice is with the Burris, for the money, and there are some great deals out there, and for the next 3 days, you get an additional $100 rebate.

 

[supercorndogs]

Don't overthink it, either will work fine. The important thing is getting off the internet and onto the range.

 

[Mike_R]

Well, based on the largely positive feedback on the XTR II and the rebate I was able to snag a 5-25x50 XTR II with the SCR Mil reticle for a great price. I don't have a lot of experience with high end optics to know what I might be missing in glass, but it sounds like it will be sturdy and track reliably. Again, this is really just me wanting to pick up something that I can get started with some local matches with.

I need to pick rings or a mount next, so I am going to start doing my homework on that. Thanks again for all the suggestions and feedback!

 

[koshkin]

Pick the one with the reticle that works for you.

I have not yet tested the PST Gen 2, but I like the XTR II quite a bit.

ILya

 

[samnev]

I have both the 4-20X and 5-25X XTR II with the SCR reticle and haven't had any issue with clarity of either scopes glass. But don't count on getting the rebate any time soon. Its been over 10 weeks since I submitted the rebate which the out of house rebate people acknowledge receiving.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

How do you guys rate the Bushnell LRTSi 3-12x44 against the Vortex Gen2 PST 3-15 ?

Is the glass on the LRTSi as good as the DMR II ?

 

[pineoak]

OP asked for an affordable scope, and you at least doubled his budget. Sure, I like the BMW over the VW, but in the VW price catagory, you have to look at Ford and Nissan.

I think he picked two very good options, the PST Gen 2, and the Burris XTR-ii. Both are good. I like the Burris over the PST, but that is personal. I would strongly advise against either of the Vortex Gen 1 scopes, which for me, did not seem fit for consumption, and the same with the Bushnell Gen 1 DMR series. The Bushnell ERS comes into play, but it seems more like DMR Gen 1.5, and I just don't like it. The Steiner T5Xi, after fixing a very poorly tested rollout, is solid. I have one in 15x, and it is great, but it is more expensive than the budget indicated.

I suggest weighing the PST Gen 2 and the Burris XTR-ii, and seeing what features and reticles you like. My choice is with the Burris, for the money, and there are some great deals out there, and for the next 3 days, you get an additional $100 rebate.

Yes. I did.

In a sport/hobby in which you spend between $0.30-$1.20 per shot... $1,000 isn't all that much. Just because he budgets $1,000 or so for glass now doesn't mean he might not find himself spending 2-3x that in 6-12 months after deciding that better glass has a higher priority slot on his ladder.

I'm just expressing my opinion and giving advice to someone asking for advice. Just because it doesn't fit into the narrow box into which the OP is asking about.

I don't consider the PSTg2 or the XTRii to be much of a step from the Bushnell Elite.

IF the OP can spend some time behind some RazorG2s, he might decide it's worth the price difference to him to make that jump. It's definitely a sweet spot/point of diminishing returns.

The $1,000 scopes could be construed as a better "value", but that is subjective and if you're spending a few hours at a time behind the glass per range session x the # of times you shoot per year... $1,000 isn't all that much in perspective.

Having owned an XTRii, I thought the glass was sub par over time. It did have the fantastic turrets, accurate tracking and the awesome SCR reticle... but the glass was tiring to look through.

I feel strongly that the OP would be happier in the long run with a Razor2/mil/EBR2C/27x if weight isn't an issue.

Megarush is asking for advice? He's getting it.

I'm sure that some people would say you should start with a base Rem 700 in .308 for a rifle and save the $$$ for training and ammo. But starting with a higher quality 6.5 isn't exactly a bad way to go instead of upgrading the R700 over time.

 

[FireShooter]

I have been happy with my Burris 3-15 XTR-II with scr reticle. The glass is not as good as my LRTS. There is some haziness around the edge of objects when there is a lighter colored object in front of a darker colored object, but I've never felt it hinders me front hitting my target. The XTR II is hard to beat for the price right now. You won't be at a disadvantage practically when shooting. Have fun.

 

[Big Bo]

I went with Burris XTRii 5-25x50. Works for my eyes.

 

[l1qu1dthunkz]

Little late here, but I'll throw in my .02 for anyone else interested in this topic...i kmow i weighed this question for months myself. Got my xtr2 4-20 ~10 days ago. I knew going into it not to expect an S&B at this price point, but I was trying to be open minded. Long story short, I kept it for the weekend, and returned it the following monday.

I tried to justify keeping it, since my #1 priority was tracking, which they seem do do quite well from the time i put into researching prior to purchase. Couldn't deal with the quality of the glass. Ive looked through a few gen 1 pst's and felt they were noticeably better than the burris. Perhaps I got a lemon, who knows. I wasn't willing to wait around for a warranty claim on what could possibly have turned out to be "acceptable " glass to their warranty dept. At this price point, something's gotta give. No two ways about it. If they could bump the quality of the glass a couple hundred bucks worth, i would be willing to pay the corresponding increase in price. I loved the scr mil reticle, and the feature set was in line with other offerings at this price point. Turrets sucked, but i could have lived with that (and turret feel is completely subjective anyways)

It's hard to know sometimes what you're getting when you don't know much/anything about the person giving feedback on a product, but i wish i would have weighed the sheer number of negative opinions of xtr glass quality more heavily. I hope my specific case was an exception to the rule, and that the majority of xtr's are actually adequate in terms of optical quality. I find the 'its not bad enough to make you miss a shot' comments somewhat misleading...it hurt to look through the optic for 5 minutes....I can't imagine using it for hours on end.

Maybe I'm just used to better quality, and that has skewed my judgement...a very real possibility. In the end I think i just got another lesson in 'you get what you pay for.' This hobby is too $$$ to skimp on something as important as the optic.

To the OP's original question, I'd go with the PST. No, I haven't looked through a gen 2 pst, but i find it hard to believe vortex would make them worse than a gen 1. Or better yet, wait for a deal on something used in the next tier up. Lots of deals to be had, if you don't absolutely have to have brand new.

 

[pell1203]

l1qu1dthunkz, you might want to try an Athlon Cronus or one of the just released Athlon Ares models if you are willing to pay a few bucks extra for outstanding optical quality!

I currently own a 4.5-29x56 Cronus BTR that replaced a Burris XTR II 5-25x50 that was sent back to Burris twice. Once, for repairs to illumination and glass quality issues. While illumination was fixed, I was told scope was optically within specs. Honestly, over the next 3-4 months I tried to get used to the scope without success and asked multiple shooters for advice. All suggested I return it due to optical irregularities. Second time it was sent with a letter detailing my concerns and within a few weeks Burris sent a new replacement which was sold in the unopened factory cellophane.

I realize this post may not perfectly track your needs as you were looking at the 4-20 power Burris and my experience is limited to the 5-25 model. However, it appears we both found the lack of optical quality to be a significant issue to color our decision.

I've been nothing but pleased with the Athlon Cronus BTR that replaced it. You may want to consider them as well.

 

[steve123]

l1qu1dthunkz, you might want to try an Athlon Cronus or one of the just released Athlon Ares models if you are willing to pay a few bucks extra for outstanding optical quality!

I currently own a 4.5-29x56 Cronus BTR that replaced a Burris XTR II 5-25x50 that was sent back to Burris twice. Once, for repairs to illumination and glass quality issues. While illumination was fixed, I was told scope was optically within specs. Honestly, over the next 3-4 months I tried to get used to the scope without success and asked multiple shooters for advice. All suggested I return it due to optical irregularities. Second time it was sent with a letter detailing my concerns and within a few weeks Burris sent a new replacement which was sold in the unopened factory cellophane.

I realize this post may not perfectly track your needs as you were looking at the 4-20 power Burris and my experience is limited to the 5-25 model. However, it appears we both found the lack of optical quality to be a significant issue to color our decision.

I've been nothing but pleased with the Athlon Cronus BTR that replaced it. You may want to consider them as well.

Simply put I didn't consider buying a XTR2 because of the 50Y minimum parallax but more so the reports read right here on the Hide with concerns aimed at unsatisfactory "but within spec" image quality. I want the option to have closer focusing in case I want to put the scope on a 22rf or PCP air rifle at some point. Better to have and not need than need and not have... Plus I really do hate image quality issues.

I received my Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 a couple weeks ago. The turret feel is excellent, on them are decent sized numbers, turrets aren't huge in size or too tall and all other controls feel just right! The glass so good it's almost S&B quality. The illumination is daylight bright and goes down super low. Focuses from 25Y on 29x. Tree reticle is fantastic. But yes the Cronus is more expensive so maybe not fair to compare...

I have the Ares 2.5-15x50 too. It's quality level is appropriate to its $799 map price, no less, no more. Of course if you shop around you can find one cheaper which intensifies the value. It checks all the boxes as good enough in every aspect of the scope.

 

[l1qu1dthunkz]

I don't want to get too off topic here, as the OP gave pretty specific parameters as to what he was looking for, but I do think it's beneficial to consider what you're really getting for your money.

I've got a USO B-17 coming in tomorrow. Quite a step up, but I got a great deal and couldn't say no. The Cronus BTR was the next logical step for me, but the USO came up before I looked too closely at them. A friend of mine should have his Cronus BTR within the week, and I'm looking forward to checking it out in person.

I picked the xtr2 4-20 instead of the 5-25 as my previous optic was a S&B 3-12 PMII, and it never held me back from shooting out to 1000yds routinely. I was able to stretch it out to ~1300-1400m on a few occasions, and again didn't feel like the lower magnification (by today's standards) was a hindrance. Higher magnification would have been appreciated, however, for target ID purposes. I spent most of my time in the 8-10x magnification range with that optic. Additionally, the FOV of the 4-20 xtr2 was wider than the 5-25 model , and since I planned on staying in the 8-15x range anyways, I didn't feel that the extra 5x up top was worth it for me.

$1k isn't chump change for me, or many others I'm sure. Although it's quite a bit to fork out, but the reality is you have to seriously compromise in order to get something new in this price bracket. Steve123 brings up a good point regarding the low end of the XTR parallax adjustment. No, I might not need to focus on a target 10m away, but then again who knows. I can count on one hand how many times I've had to do that, so maybe it's not that critical (that just depends on intended use). I also found the parallax on the XTR2 4-20 to by hyper-sensitive. It took me much longer than I'm used to to properly adjust the optic. In the end, I felt the XTR was in many ways more expensive than an optic costing twice as much. Would the XTR have kept me from achieving a first round impact? Maybe not, providing I know where the target is, lighting conditions are ok, etc. CA was so bad though that I saw a serious issue of not being able to accurately mil small targets at distance, where a +/-0.1 mil measurement could have a profound impact. I didn't take the time to try this before I returned it, it's just a problem I foresaw coming down the road.

Provided the Cronus BTR is mechanically sound, I think that's a worthwhile route to consider. Accurate and repeatable tracking + suitable reticle + good optical quality sounds like a great value for what they go for price wise. If you can stomach sacrificing in other areas of a build in order to get a quality optic, I would say that's the prudent thing to do...there are lots of good options these days for guns that will shoot sub-minute at distance...the price point of diminishing returns on optics, though, seems to be a little higher than the rifle.

 

[FishDr]

Go to a PRS match and ask a few guys if you can have a look through their glass. Most are very accommodating. I went to the range with a couple of buddies that had different options, got behind their glass and looked at different size targets at various ranges. My decision was much easier at that point. So was my second choice ( based on price). Just a suggestion.

edited to fix typos

 

[lennyo3034]

The DMRII glass is better than the T5Xi and on par with the Razor Gen2.

Optical quality can be very subjective and may depend from user to user. I currently own all three of these and do not find this to be the case at all. To me the T5xi had better contrast and less CA than the DMRII. Whereas the Gen 2 Razor was significantly better than both in all aspects.

OP, if you're getting serious into the sport and will be keeping the optic for a long time, you need to go to a match and look behind these scopes.

If you're just testing the waters, anything posted in this thread will work well enough for you to decide if you like the type of shooting or not.

 

[fdkay]

Yes. I did.

In a sport/hobby in which you spend between $0.30-$1.20 per shot... $1,000 isn't all that much. Just because he budgets $1,000 or so for glass now doesn't mean he might not find himself spending 2-3x that in 6-12 months after deciding that better glass has a higher priority slot on his ladder.

I'm just expressing my opinion and giving advice to someone asking for advice. Just because it doesn't fit into the narrow box into which the OP is asking about.

I don't consider the PSTg2 or the XTRii to be much of a step from the Bushnell Elite.

IF the OP can spend some time behind some RazorG2s, he might decide it's worth the price difference to him to make that jump. It's definitely a sweet spot/point of diminishing returns.

The $1,000 scopes could be construed as a better "value", but that is subjective and if you're spending a few hours at a time behind the glass per range session x the # of times you shoot per year... $1,000 isn't all that much in perspective.

Having owned an XTRii, I thought the glass was sub par over time. It did have the fantastic turrets, accurate tracking and the awesome SCR reticle... but the glass was tiring to look through.

I feel strongly that the OP would be happier in the long run with a Razor2/mil/EBR2C/27x if weight isn't an issue.

Megarush is asking for advice? He's getting it.

I'm sure that some people would say you should start with a base Rem 700 in .308 for a rifle and save the $$$ for training and ammo. But starting with a higher quality 6.5 isn't exactly a bad way to go instead of upgrading the R700 over time.

While some of your points are absolutely valid, I don't think I can agree that the PST II and XTR II aren't much of a step up from a 180 dollar, fixed 10 power scope with 5 mils per turn and a plain mil-dot reticle.
Some folks do have to pick and choose where they spend their money. It does no good to buy a 2000 dollar plus scope if you can't buy the ammo or reloading components to shoot.
On the other hand, if the OP can find a Gen 1 Vortex on sale and can come up in price a few hundred dollars, that is a very reasonable alternative.

OP, I also recommend that you look into the SWFA 5-20 (non-illuminated). They don't find as much favor as they once did due to lack of a zero stop, but they are VERY solid scopes with excellent glass and excellent tracking.

 

[l1qu1dthunkz]

While some of your points are absolutely valid, I don't think I can agree that the PST II and XTR II aren't much of a step up from a 180 dollar, fixed 10 power scope with 5 mils per turn and a plain mil-dot reticle.

Never looked through a $180 fixed 10, but the glass in my $300 leupold vx2 fixed 4x on my levergun looks pretty exceptional. Much, much better than the burris....not even close. Given similar clarity in a 10x, I have to say I'd choose it over the XTR, and spend the difference on ammo or save it towards the next piece of glass...That's just me.

You do have to stick to a budget at some point though, can't argue with that. Kinda hard to hit your target with an optic and no rifle.

 

[Mike_R]

I received the XTR II today and so far I am pleased. I may just not know what I am missing but I was able to glass a hill close to where I live with it and the image quality surprised me in a good way. After reading some of the negative posts on the scope I was beginning to wonder if I might be better off bolting a toilet paper roll to my rifle. I understand it isn't a top of the line scope, but I was I was hoping for was a scope with adequate features to get out and play- an entry level scope- and I think I have that now.

To me, it feels like a huge step up from the Bushnell. Having a parallax adjustment is nice. The turrets feel great, and I have no reason to believe it won't track well. It feels solid. I am not blown away by the clarity but felt like I had no issues with making out details several hundred yards away. If I laid it down side by side with a Razor Gen 2 or an S&B I might feel differently, but this will give me a chance to get out to matches and hopefully get first hand experience with some of these other options.

I don't have a problem with spending money to get quality gear. I have no issue with dropping 5k for a USPSA Open rig, I reload pistol on a bullet fed 1050, and travel and compete in that sport. That said, I know a lot of guys who have sold their lightly used Open guns cheap after deciding it wasn't for them because they couldn't break out of B class. I am trying to avoid that, and being the guy that shows up with all the top of the line gear but can't get within 40% of the match winner.

I appreciate the feedback I have received, and make no mistake, I will check out some of the higher end suggestions eventually and if I stick with it I will probably upgrade down the line. I am getting a stock and DBM this week, and will hopefully have it all together and bedded in the next couple of weeks. I should have, at that point, a functional rig to get out and try some matches. There seem to be a few matches around me that I can start shooting after I get a load worked up.

 

[JS624]

OP,
I had a burris xtr ii 4-20 and I did not care for it. glass was not very good and the illumination sucked. definitely not daylight bright. also I did not care for the zero stop setup they use.
I sold my burris a couple months after I bought it. between the 2 you listed I would go PST II in a heartbeat even tho I have no experience with it.
only good things I found about the burris was that it had good turrets and a useable reticle.

if you can swing it maybe try and pick up a gen 1 vortex razor used they can be had for 1300-1500 and are a much better scope.

 

[fdkay]

While I realize that glass etc... is subjective, and if you don't like the scope, you don't like the scope (somethings just don't work for folks)
I can't wrap my head around the desire for a high magnification optic to have daylight visible illumination.

 

[steve123]

While I realize that glass etc... is subjective, and if you don't like the scope, you don't like the scope (somethings just don't work for folks)
I can't wrap my head around the desire for a high magnification optic to have daylight visible illumination.

It's not like it's totally necessary to have daylight bright illume. But it can sure help. When shooting black steel I discovered it's advantages. Black crosshair vs fading light, dark areas, it's knowing exactly where the hashes are with the illume vs barely seeing them because they are being washed out in the background.

And I will say that once a guy has tried it daylight bright illume grows on you. Well maybe not all of us but it is a cool thing to use when needed.

 

[TheOE800]

Daylight bright illumination is situational at best. However, when that situation arises it's awesome to have. While important to me, it's a feature I'm willing to negotiate on depending on what else the scope brings to the table.

 

[nedceifus]

Very happy with the Gen2 Viper 5x25x50 FFP. Zero stop works great! (Read instructions) clarity is really good, features are just right,