I have always heard that the SR100 is the most accurate factory sniper rifle. Is this true and if so what is so special about it?
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ERMA SR100
- Thread starter Dark Horse
- Start date
Re: ERMA SR100
I have a feeling thats because they call it a "Factory sniper rifle". I know of more than a few rifles that shoot very well right outta the box but they're just rifles.
I have a feeling thats because they call it a "Factory sniper rifle". I know of more than a few rifles that shoot very well right outta the box but they're just rifles.
Re: ERMA SR100
Very well should be the norm, I've heard .25 moa or better from the ERMA, but could have been a selling tactic to justify its price tag. If anyone has experience with it please share.
Very well should be the norm, I've heard .25 moa or better from the ERMA, but could have been a selling tactic to justify its price tag. If anyone has experience with it please share.
Re: ERMA SR100
By all accounts the Erma SR 100 is a very accurate rifle and that is why we are looking for one for ammunition testing. How practical a rifle it is in the field is a good question. It was overpriced and had a very small production history to get really good feed back back.
Erma started with it when they were having financial problems, just before were absorbed by Steyr to prevent failure. Then Steyr had their own financial problems and were bought & sold once or twice at the time years ago. Somewhere in the middle of that the rifle just wasn't a priority for them.
As I said the rifle is very good, but I seriously question the whole multi caliber concept in one rifle. I can understand having a 5.56 or 7.62 Nato sniper rifle (seperately), and then having one in .338 Lapua, and then another in .50cal BMG. But a convertable single rifle is adding needless complexity (including the chance for failure or partial performance, - just not an option) in one rifle. Much better to have single rifles in each caliber, dedicated with dedicated accessories and then draw from this "operational golf bag" on an as needed basis. This is especially true in the military context with dedicated marksmen/hunters who are naturally completely committed to their rifles, as opposed to those who are only issued the rifle and see it only as a "necessary tool", and nothing else "after 5pm".
The idea of multi caliber sounds nice but it seems more like a doer of many things and a master of none.
Anyone who disagrees, please feel free
By all accounts the Erma SR 100 is a very accurate rifle and that is why we are looking for one for ammunition testing. How practical a rifle it is in the field is a good question. It was overpriced and had a very small production history to get really good feed back back.
Erma started with it when they were having financial problems, just before were absorbed by Steyr to prevent failure. Then Steyr had their own financial problems and were bought & sold once or twice at the time years ago. Somewhere in the middle of that the rifle just wasn't a priority for them.
As I said the rifle is very good, but I seriously question the whole multi caliber concept in one rifle. I can understand having a 5.56 or 7.62 Nato sniper rifle (seperately), and then having one in .338 Lapua, and then another in .50cal BMG. But a convertable single rifle is adding needless complexity (including the chance for failure or partial performance, - just not an option) in one rifle. Much better to have single rifles in each caliber, dedicated with dedicated accessories and then draw from this "operational golf bag" on an as needed basis. This is especially true in the military context with dedicated marksmen/hunters who are naturally completely committed to their rifles, as opposed to those who are only issued the rifle and see it only as a "necessary tool", and nothing else "after 5pm".
The idea of multi caliber sounds nice but it seems more like a doer of many things and a master of none.
Anyone who disagrees, please feel free
Re: ERMA SR100
I got some info from the web and it said that this rifle is capable of 0.25 MOA. Do we really need a 0.25 MOA rifle for military application? But the cost is at $9000 for a rifle? wow. It looks like an AI, design is also similar to AI (with the 60 degree bolt), interchangable barrels under field condition, do I smell an AI replica?
I got some info from the web and it said that this rifle is capable of 0.25 MOA. Do we really need a 0.25 MOA rifle for military application? But the cost is at $9000 for a rifle? wow. It looks like an AI, design is also similar to AI (with the 60 degree bolt), interchangable barrels under field condition, do I smell an AI replica?
Re: ERMA SR100
It is a good question which rifle is a replica or improvement of what. I don’t think anyone’s done a direct comparison of AI & Erma, and with Erma out of business it becomes a moot point*. The value of a multi caliber sniper or anti material rifle by any manufacture I have a real practical issue with for a dedicated professional, changing calibers on one rifle instead of picking from the “proverbial golf bag” of dedicated single caliber rifles along with their inherent simplicity, and fewer bobbles or gadgets or multi caliber lock ups to eventually slop or go horribly wrong at the worst possible time (Murphy’s law section 9B, - failures in the heat of battle) .
As far as why do we need a 0.25 MOA rifle, the question is not why we need single ragged little hole accuracy at short ranges, but rather what this rifle will do for us at our rather aggressive objective range of 2,000 yards (or metres, - take your pick), with a new propellant development for .338 Lapua (applicable to other calibers as well) using a 300gr match projectile, & to be joined by a 300gr API for anti-material use with enough API payload. Folks, that’s when .338 Lapua Magnum and its combination truly man portable sniper/anti material rifle truly become interesting for the first time after 18 years. Until then, its been like a race horse using on only three legs
CB
* It would be nice to have a .338 L/M Erma SR-100 for this further ammunition development but if we cannot find one we will just use another rifle or build another custom rifle to advance the ammunition development program. I knew some of the people at Steyr and just like the rifle so it was a natural first choice
It is a good question which rifle is a replica or improvement of what. I don’t think anyone’s done a direct comparison of AI & Erma, and with Erma out of business it becomes a moot point*. The value of a multi caliber sniper or anti material rifle by any manufacture I have a real practical issue with for a dedicated professional, changing calibers on one rifle instead of picking from the “proverbial golf bag” of dedicated single caliber rifles along with their inherent simplicity, and fewer bobbles or gadgets or multi caliber lock ups to eventually slop or go horribly wrong at the worst possible time (Murphy’s law section 9B, - failures in the heat of battle) .
As far as why do we need a 0.25 MOA rifle, the question is not why we need single ragged little hole accuracy at short ranges, but rather what this rifle will do for us at our rather aggressive objective range of 2,000 yards (or metres, - take your pick), with a new propellant development for .338 Lapua (applicable to other calibers as well) using a 300gr match projectile, & to be joined by a 300gr API for anti-material use with enough API payload. Folks, that’s when .338 Lapua Magnum and its combination truly man portable sniper/anti material rifle truly become interesting for the first time after 18 years. Until then, its been like a race horse using on only three legs
CB
* It would be nice to have a .338 L/M Erma SR-100 for this further ammunition development but if we cannot find one we will just use another rifle or build another custom rifle to advance the ammunition development program. I knew some of the people at Steyr and just like the rifle so it was a natural first choice
Re: ERMA SR100
The good thing about having a rifle with the abilty to interchange caliber is that it opens alot of possiblities, and cut down on the amount of extra baggage you have to take to the field, if it was a designed as a military rifle, which I don't really know.
Give an idea of varying terrain like forests to mountian range. Swap out a .308win for a .338Laupa. Mountians to urban areas? Right back again.
I did hear a story about the Erma being in a couple competitions. It was used to win hands down quite a bit of them if I remember.
The good thing about having a rifle with the abilty to interchange caliber is that it opens alot of possiblities, and cut down on the amount of extra baggage you have to take to the field, if it was a designed as a military rifle, which I don't really know.
Give an idea of varying terrain like forests to mountian range. Swap out a .308win for a .338Laupa. Mountians to urban areas? Right back again.
I did hear a story about the Erma being in a couple competitions. It was used to win hands down quite a bit of them if I remember.
Re: ERMA SR100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lapua001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By all accounts the Erma SR 100 is a very accurate rifle and that is why we are looking for one for ammunition testing. </div></div>
Why wouldn' t you just use an AI and have several really well done aftermarket barrels on hand to change length, twist, caliber to test ammunition ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lapua001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By all accounts the Erma SR 100 is a very accurate rifle and that is why we are looking for one for ammunition testing. </div></div>
Why wouldn' t you just use an AI and have several really well done aftermarket barrels on hand to change length, twist, caliber to test ammunition ?
Re: ERMA SR100
I appreciate what lowlight says from the simplicity point, but the program is large enough to dedicate rifles per barrel/twist type, but with a lot of prep work so that we use the actual shooting, to confirm what is partially confirmed through other means. I fixed barrel also eliminates rifle variables when really we want to see what the ammunition/bullet/powder/twist will do. Adding potential rifle variations only adds to the variable and distractions
As for the comments of others who replied, do we have any actual military combat users out there who have actually converted from one caliber to another in the field as opposed to going to your mobile stores and picking another rifle from the “proverbial golf bag” for specific operational requirements, that actually necessitates a caliber change . Actual field experience comments showing the success/real utility of one multi caliber rifle would be enlightening
The idea of carrying one rifle with a caliber conversion, and two different types of ammunition by one man on foot (already overloaded) well, is - logistically and tactically dubious. If you cannot go back to the truck or dedicate two dedicated rifles with two dedicated marksman, you may also have already “manufactured” one of your own problems. It sounds good in non procurement strategy when one system is expected to perform its role, wash the dishes, ake out the kitty cat, and go for a walk. Ask the people in the field how many times they need change calibers in the field? It is not that these rifles cannot succeed because they can, and have. My point is that more variables degrade the accuracy over time and needlessly add variables that can fail. Why set yourself up for that with a “Swiss Army knife tactical rifle”?
Ours is an ammunition development program, not a rifle program, but this issue is an obvious problem that effects the delivery of the whole package, and we just don’t accept “half measures” We just don’t. Beat up the rifle with the big caliber, and then go back to the conversion on the small cal with exchanging parts and what can you expect in performance? .338 Lapua Magnum is a large, violent cartridge on the rifle (wear, tolerances, peening) , and nothing can change that. This is long range precision shooting, not “good enough” service rifle shooting a much shorter close combat rifle ranges. What we are talking about in a sniper/anti-material rifle is not a “good enough” shorter range service rifle performance because we are talking about two “different animals”.
I appreciate what lowlight says from the simplicity point, but the program is large enough to dedicate rifles per barrel/twist type, but with a lot of prep work so that we use the actual shooting, to confirm what is partially confirmed through other means. I fixed barrel also eliminates rifle variables when really we want to see what the ammunition/bullet/powder/twist will do. Adding potential rifle variations only adds to the variable and distractions
As for the comments of others who replied, do we have any actual military combat users out there who have actually converted from one caliber to another in the field as opposed to going to your mobile stores and picking another rifle from the “proverbial golf bag” for specific operational requirements, that actually necessitates a caliber change . Actual field experience comments showing the success/real utility of one multi caliber rifle would be enlightening
The idea of carrying one rifle with a caliber conversion, and two different types of ammunition by one man on foot (already overloaded) well, is - logistically and tactically dubious. If you cannot go back to the truck or dedicate two dedicated rifles with two dedicated marksman, you may also have already “manufactured” one of your own problems. It sounds good in non procurement strategy when one system is expected to perform its role, wash the dishes, ake out the kitty cat, and go for a walk. Ask the people in the field how many times they need change calibers in the field? It is not that these rifles cannot succeed because they can, and have. My point is that more variables degrade the accuracy over time and needlessly add variables that can fail. Why set yourself up for that with a “Swiss Army knife tactical rifle”?
Ours is an ammunition development program, not a rifle program, but this issue is an obvious problem that effects the delivery of the whole package, and we just don’t accept “half measures” We just don’t. Beat up the rifle with the big caliber, and then go back to the conversion on the small cal with exchanging parts and what can you expect in performance? .338 Lapua Magnum is a large, violent cartridge on the rifle (wear, tolerances, peening) , and nothing can change that. This is long range precision shooting, not “good enough” service rifle shooting a much shorter close combat rifle ranges. What we are talking about in a sniper/anti-material rifle is not a “good enough” shorter range service rifle performance because we are talking about two “different animals”.
Re: ERMA SR100
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always heard that the SR100 is the most accurate factory sniper rifle. Is this true and if so what is so special about it? </div></div>
In one "sound bite" it is simple; a well made, well thought out rifle.
Unfortunately with Steyr's problems at the time, they made a mistake, charged too much and then dropped the rifle. Smarter Austrians like Mr Glock used his production methods to make his guns effectively an industry stanard for some time
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always heard that the SR100 is the most accurate factory sniper rifle. Is this true and if so what is so special about it? </div></div>
In one "sound bite" it is simple; a well made, well thought out rifle.
Unfortunately with Steyr's problems at the time, they made a mistake, charged too much and then dropped the rifle. Smarter Austrians like Mr Glock used his production methods to make his guns effectively an industry stanard for some time
