Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

[mrgreentie]

The What: I'm reloading .308 WIN , 175 SMK, in brand new Lapua brass.

Back Story: I just bought a set of Redding reloading dies (Comes with the S Bushing Neck Sizing Die) and am pretty confused. First of all, one person said "a bushing die should not be used with an expander ball at all." What does that even mean? Is there something I need to remove from my S Bushing die prior to neck-sizing?

Also, what the heck is a mandrel?

So much to learn...

 

[bdh308]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

The expander ball is exactly that. When you extend the ram up into the die with your fired brass there is a ball thats located just above the decapping rod (the thing that pops your old primer out). As you size your brass and pull the sized brass back through the die the expander ball catches the inside mouth of your case smoothing out any creases or dents in the case mouth. I prefer to use one but I bought the carbide kit for my Redding FL bush die. The problem that most run into is while pulling the brass back through the die with the standard expander ball it can catch and stretch the shoulders. Another way to remedy this is to use a good sizing wax like imperial inside the case mouth for smooth operation or lap the expander down a little for fit.

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

There is no expander ball with an "S"bushing neck sizing die.You will however have to choose a bushing for said die.If you are sticking with winchester brass a .332 bushing should be GTG. I use a .336 bushing for Lapua brass. To determine the bushing size-you measure the diameter of a loaded round and subtract 0.020" = bushing size. REMEMBER-its the INSIDE of the bushing that sizes the neck.

The instructions that come with the dies are very good. They will explain all the nomenclature and how to install and adjust the bushing. You will however need to use the body die after a few firings if you are having trouble chambering the brass-that will bump the shoulder back into spec.When all else fails-READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!

+1 on using Imperial wax case lube.

 

[dragonjr45]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

Type "S" neck dies have a "button", which would be pretty much the same as an "expander ball" I think. It is located and works just like BDH308 said. I feel that if you are not neck turning or at least sorting your cases by neck thickness, then I would use it (this is reddings reason for supplying one with the die). If you are neck turning or sorting by neck thickness, I wouldn't use it.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

A normal die, squeezes the nect of the case down so far that even the thinnest brass will be small enough to grip an (ever so slightly) undersized bullet. The expander ball brings the interrior diameter back up to a neck tension of about 0.003.

With a bushing die, you carefully measure a few things, and then select a bushing. If selected correctly, the bushing will squeeze the case neck to the precise diameter needed to hold the bullet. Thus, no expander ball is required, however careful selection of the bushing is.

A mandrel is a fixture that holds something and allow another tool to accurately cut a shape. Mandrels are typically round and are inserted into a "hole" to allow another tool to remain concentric to the original "hole". For example, the valve seats in a automobile engine head are cut with a tool rotating on a mandrel.

 

[mrgreentie]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thus, no expander ball is required, however careful selection of the bushing is.
</div></div>

So, the expander ball/button on my redding die is on the decapper, i should remove the decapper and just run with the bushings I have?

I really appreciate all of your time with my questions guys. This is very helpful!!!

~Mac

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To determine the bushing size-you measure the diameter of a loaded round and add 0.020" = bushing size. REMEMBER-its the INSIDE of the bushing that sizes the neck.</div></div>

Did you mean subtract 0.002"?

 

[sniperdude]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

I load for the same .308 in lapua brass with 175smk's (42.3 of 4064 @2650fps)

I use a body die to set back the shoulder and a neck die for the neck tension, it has no expander ball/button (it works the brass just a little). I have about 5 reloadings on them so far and pretty consistant with velocity.(I also use this proceedure for my other .308s with their owm brass) I have a fl die if needed(but havent) I purchased a carbide button from sinclairs to replace the factory one as its a little smoother. I keep brass dedicated to each rifle

 

[RTH1800]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

Sir,
If possable I would suggest getting someone local who is a good reloader to get you started and set up your dies for you. A local shooting range or gun store would be a great place to find help. I have never met a serious reloader who would not spend time getting a new one started in the right direction.
About the neck tension, you might need to increase it after a few loadings.
I would also suggest you ignore the impulse to load all your brass. You will at some point make a bit of an error and I would just load 10 or 20 at a time and save the rest of the brass for when you are more expirenced. JMO

 

[bdh308]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

+1 on the help. Trust us we have all been there at one point and dont take RTH the wrong way. As reloaders we have to watch each others back and more experienced loaders typically are more than willing to lend a hand. The questions you have asked are legitmate concerns but not all the info is posted on the net. Buy you a good reloading book to help with referencing things and what ever you do dont skip through the chapters or and (this is important) miss tiny little details. After you read it...read it again. Get the basics down and then look into advancing. Be careful and work slowly.

Brad

 

[Lt. Arclight]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To determine the bushing size-you measure the diameter of a loaded round and add 0.020" = bushing size. REMEMBER-its the INSIDE of the bushing that sizes the neck.</div></div>

Did you mean subtract 0.002"? </div></div>

Yes sorry,I just wanted to point out that its the INSIDE diameter of the bushing that determines its size. Didn't mean to confuse you.

 

[EddieNFL]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

Well, yeah, I understand the ID, but If I add 0.020" to my loaded round OD (0.336") that's puts me at a bushing size of 0.356". I use a 0.335".

Apparently, I'm missing something in your post. ???

 

[Country]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

I think it is way better to work out your own size requirements from your seated bullet. Seat a few bullets in empty sized and prepared cases and measure the average diameter of the case necks . Then subtract .001 for hand fed ammo . Subtract .002 for magazine fed ammo and hunting stuff medium calibers.
Subtract .003 for heavier neck tension for big magnums and stuff like that , maybe Autos.
If you buy all three bushing sizes you have a range of sizing choices that allows a bit of adjustment for different thickness brass that you may strike from time to time.

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

Most people don't use the expander in bushing type dies. Some say that the expander causes excessive runout. There is no need for the expander if you are using the correct size bushing and the case necks are not dented. I personally use the expander but I polish it down until it will slide through the neck of a resized case with minimal effort. This way it won't disturb the neck unless there is a problem with the inside dimension of the neck.

David

 

[zenbiker]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most people don't use the expander in bushing type dies. Some say that the expander causes excessive runout. There is no need for the expander if you are using the correct size bushing and the case necks are not dented. I personally use the expander but I polish it down until it will slide through the neck of a resized case with minimal effort. This way it won't disturb the neck unless there is a problem with the inside dimension of the neck.

David </div></div>

Tru Dat. A bushing die produces the best sized brass in terms of concentricity and is easier on the necks when used without an expander. Very good advice has been given in choosing the size of bushing.

 

[mrgreentie]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

So I still have a question remaining... is the expander on the decapper rod on the S Bushing die and if so, do I remove the entire pin/rod/decapper to remove the expander? Basically, if the expander is built into the decapper, can I remove it without negatively affecting resizing. The feedback on this post makes it sound like the expander overworks the brass and is unnecessary as it is a bushing die anyway.

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

The expander is on the decapping stem. Screw the collet off that holds the decapping pin and then screw the expander off of the stem and put the collet back on.

 

[mrgreentie]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The expander is on the decapping stem. Screw the collet off that holds the decapping pin and then screw the expander off of the stem and put the collet back on. </div></div>


Thanks!!!

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

Glad to help.

David

 

[Country]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

The S die should come with a pin retainer that you can put on inplace of the size button .

 

[mattmcg]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dmg264</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I personally use the expander but I polish it down until it will slide through the neck of a resized case with minimal effort. This way it won't disturb the neck unless there is a problem with the inside dimension of the neck.
David </div></div>

David, so a quick question. What do you use to polish the expander ball down and how do you do it? I have a 223 Rem Redding FL sizer die that I use for range pickup brass. The expander is oversizing the ID a bit on the cases and I'm looking to increase the neck tension. I need to run the expander as the necks are often dented and need to be expanded. I have the correct bushing for proper neck tension so was thinking of polishing myself but didn't know the best way to go about it. Advice would be appreciated.

 

[Bugholes]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

chuck the expander ball up in a handheld drill (by the knurled end of the ball)and take it town with 600 then 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. it takes a little while but will solve the overexpanding of the neck ID issue. Take it down in .0003-.0005 increments until your sized neck OD matches your bushing

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Expander ball??? Mandrel??? Redding Dies

You may want to check this thread out:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...484#Post1457484

You are not having the same issues, but there was alot of good info passed that goes into depth regarding your questions.