expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

[gol1]

Hi

we are starting a 100 meter competition league in our club, I am looking for some information regarding the groups I can expect from an Anchutz model 2013 with Eley or RWS match ammunition.
any info would be appreciated
Thanks
Gol

 

[gol1]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Thanks for your response, When I was young I was shooting positional at 50 meters with 0.22 Free rifle and I am looking to know what kind of groups I can get at 100 meters from my rifle using bipod and a scope.
Thanks again

 

[Quark]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Certainly not an expert on this. But while I can hold most calibers to 1 moa @ 100 yards with my .22LR I cannot. But it is very accurate at 50 yards. That's my experience at this point. Though I hope to get better with practice.

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

There has always been a saying that if you can shoot a rimfire really well the larger calibers are easier. I believe this, those smaller lighter rifles ( in most cases) amplify any deficiencies in your form.

 

[jbell]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

I see no reason with your rifle (if in proper working order) and quality ammo it likes you should not be able to get 1/2 moa in warm no wind conditions.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Your rifle will not shoot consistent 1/2 MOA at 100yds in a vacuum, lets be clear about that from the very start. This subject has been kicked around here more than a hakee sack at a hippie convention.
With the right ammo you should be able to average AROUND 1moa at 100yds.
I would try offerings like Lapua Center X, SK Jagd (several kinds), Wolf, Federal 922A, RWS R50. Eley may be fine at 100yds butI have never seen ANY Eley that was worth a shit past 100yds, and I don't know why. I agree you don't need $30 a box ammo. I will say you need $10-$15 a box ammo. You won't get it done with cheap stuff. Those German rifles have a real taste for German ammo, I can attest to that.

 

[bm11]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your rifle will not shoot consistent 1/2 MOA at 100yds in a vacuum, lets be clear about that from the very start. </div></div>jbells Sauer 200TR does with Center X. I have witnessed calm days when the average 5 shot group was in the .4's. I would say that his rifle is the exception though.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your rifle will not shoot consistent 1/2 MOA at 100yds in a vacuum, lets be clear about that from the very start. </div></div>jbells Sauer 200TR does with Center X. I have witnessed calm days when the average 5 shot group was in the .4's. I would say that his rifle is the exception though. </div></div>

If anyone has a rifle that can <span style="text-decoration: underline">average</span> .4 at<span style="text-decoration: underline"> 100yds</span> on ANY day(wind or not) it is indeed an exception. Now many rifles can shoot 1/2moa at 50yds, but exterpolating 50yd groups, and assuming it will do the same at 100, that dog won't hunt.
Congrats on owning a 22lr hammer.

 

[bunsen27]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your rifle will not shoot consistent 1/2 MOA at 100yds in a vacuum, lets be clear about that from the very start. </div></div>jbells Sauer 200TR does with Center X. I have witnessed calm days when the average 5 shot group was in the .4's. I would say that his rifle is the exception though. </div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Consistent</span></span> 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups at 100yds are the exception not the norm. I've shot multiple sub-MOA groups at 100yds, even a few sub 1/2 MOA groups.

Realistically though I expect an "all day" average of 1.25MOA at 100yds. This is based on my skill set and equipment on an indoor range with dead calm conditions at temperatures 55-85F and greater than 50%RH. Here is an example of an <span style="text-decoration: underline">exceptional</span> day outdoors (Win 52B & Anz 64 MPR, SK STD plus):

Armor has a larger data set than myself to work from, but I suspect his data is not radically different than mine. Most target grade 22's (non-bench rest) with quality ammo in dead calm conditions at 100yds have an average accuracy potential near 1.25MOA or slightly less. The largest variable is the ammo. If we could roll our own rimfire we should drop closer to 1 MOA or slightly less.

It would be very interesting to see if Lapua would be willing to share their data collected from their new indoor facility in AZ. It simultaneously collects data at 50m & 100m, and has to be one of the largest controlled condition data sets in existence.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cdn6oYae52I"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cdn6oYae52I" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[longguntoter]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gol1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi

we are starting a 100 meter competition league in our club, I am looking for some information regarding the groups I can expect from an Anchutz model 2013 with Eley or RWS match ammunition.
any info would be appreciated
Thanks
Gol </div></div>Probably better than I would get with my Savage MkII. lol.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Very cool video Bunsen! Maybe we needto take a ride to AZ?

Yes as you alluded to, I have seen a lot of groups from more than a handful of TSC guns. I have seen 5 shot groups at 210yds you could cover with a quarter, as you know we shoot steel so no real way to measure per se except covering the splash. You have shot with us so you know our skill sets and spotting ability.
I have seen Steve shoot 4 shots at 210 that the splash simply wallowed a spot that was inconceivable for a 22, only to have the 5th shot drop out and make a mess. Still phenominal and still 1/2moa but not that world record we hoped for, though as youknow we are not shooting for Guiness records.

To say the core TSC shooters know what it takes to be great is an understatement. Finding the perfect ammo and lot number is the Holy Grail of the game. Even when youfind therightstuff there is a "Where did that come from?" in almost every box.
Our ammo and our ability is the most limiting factor.


JBell how much cash would it take to get you to tell me the lot number of that CenterX you are shooting?

 

[gol1]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Thank you for all the info you shared as I understand I will not be able to compete at 100 meters with centerfire rifles accuracy, any way I will try to shoot some groups using my setup next time on the range and will post my results.

 

[jbell]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Well I suppose I should claifry my statement a bit. I was basing it off my current rifle (the Sauer mentioned) and the few 54s I have owned. So I say you should be able to acheive 1/2 moa @ 100yds in specific conditions and parameters: very little to no wind with air temps in the 70F-80F range, a top end match rifle (that is a very small group) with very specific ammo. I have been able to see this with more than one rifle ammo combo over the years. It is very rare but also completely possiable. Will you be able to do it everyday you go to the range, hell no! But I think you will not be hindered by the rifle and ammo (after you find the combo) but by the conditions. As stated rimfire is a finicky bitch (for reasons I dont know).

As far as my current rifle I dont think I am willing to part with it as of right now, but thank you for the offer. Not because it shoots well, but it is a very close match to my TRG in ergonomics, trigger, bolt shape, lift and throw. Also it just kinda cool b/c there are not too may of them out there. I have only had the rifle for a few months (I got it mid summer of 12) and there for have shot it less than 1K rounds with many different brands of ammo testing mostly at 50yds. I was not expecting anything too special out of the rifle as far as accuracy. Mainly because it is a multicaliber rifle, it is a centerfire with a rimfire conversion in it. I have found that with Center X (2 or 3 different lots) the rifle will shoot well. I have shot several 50yd 5 round groups @ or under 1/8" with a few under 0.100". On the few good days at 100yds I have seen from 0.400" to 0.600" over a 25 to 30 round string shooting 5 shot groups. I have seen this on more than one occasion, but as stated I just dont have that much time behind the rifle. Now on the other hand the last time I took the rifle out the air temp was somewhere between 17F and 20F and I ran a ammo temo test at 50 yds. The results shocked me, I have never seen this rifle shoot this bad in the time I have owned it! Here is the test:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3850621#Post3850621

So you can see in those conditions it was holding 1 moa. So based on what I have heard that is pretty good.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

I don't want to buy your rifle, I was offering to buy info into the lot numbers of ammo

Thanks again for the cold weather write up. We have experienced much the same results when it gets cooler. The little rimfire is cold natured for sure.

 

[jbell]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

OH, gotcha...I am kinda slow

. I was saving the lot #s until I placed my last order and was unable to find any of that lot. Oh well. I am going to keep looking into the loss of accuracy in the cold. If I figure anything out Ill let everyone know, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Try some Lapua Polar Biathlon. My CZ came back alive with it in the cold. I am temted to buy some more and try it while its cold in my 64MPR.

 

[Defusion]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

This is with a very high end .22
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/

You can check the pictures as well.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/2009/bl100.html

Don't expect the same results with your weapon

 

[jbell]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Yep, I remember reading that a whial back. Its a very comprehensive test and shows what a rimfire is capable of. I think they get a bad name as far as accuracy goes only because there is little control over lot# variation and they are effected so much by atmospherics. Thank you for posting, thats good motivation to get out and get your 22s shooting well.

 

[gol1]

Re: expected 0.22 grouping at 100 yards

Thank you for all the great information' I hope I will be able to give a small contribution by the end of the week