Explain a few things with ballistic calculators/programs to me

[TheGerman]

I've been looking at all of these phone apps, and the Trimble and who knows what since these things have grown and become very easy to obtain over the last few years. Wanted to see what the real benefits over using the 'system' I've used for a long, long time are and if I should really step into the 21st century with these as well as what works and what doesn't.

I'll start by saying I was really interested in the earlier Trimble units when I first saw them because they seemed to have everything right there, all together as well as other useful features all packaged into something you could hit with a baseball bat, and it wouldn't care. What made me not grab one was at the time there was talk on a new version that would be better for shooting, as well as various smart phone based apps coming out in the future (which obviously happened). Since then, I just know there are a ton of programs/apps out there.

My question is twofold; what advantage would I have over what I do/use and have done for a long time (I'll explain below) and if there is an advantage, what's the most solid program/unit to get that does everything you need yet doesn't make you get into filling out fields about what color your stock is or what the current temperature of the inside of your chamber is currently?

What I do is pretty simple:

- After doing all of the load work, getting velocities at different temperatures, checking accuracy, etc - I go to JBM Ballistics and input as much data as I can to get an initial trajectory card.
- Go shoot alone or with a spotter and we take note of conditions (mainly density altitude and temperature) to confirm the data or make hard adjustments if the JBM data is off.
- This is all refined and finalized into range cards for different density altitudes (usually in 3k increments) on JBM that we use
- Anytime I/we shoot, DA and temp is checked ahead of shooting and checked throughout the day as we could be moving to different locations as well as shoot in areas where there can be a 30-40 degree temp swing in a day and use the appropriate DA range card for the current situation.

So what benefit would a ballistics app or captive program like the Trimble bring over having the exact data you need either strapped to my wrist or rifle as well as my spotter having it right there in his hand? No fragile phone needed, no batteries, no computer error, etc?

Completely serious question as I know very little about these apps, but am always reluctant to get into them as they simple seem redundant as well as the idea of carrying around a smart phone in the desert all day, climbing and shooting off rock all day doesn't seem to mix well.

 

[_Windrider_]

My opinion, you do it the right way. These programs are just another tool. But it's nice to see that when you validate your dope against what they are telling you, they match. I use. One the same way you do. I build range cards but I use the apps to get me started and then validate with real data, i.e. Bullets down range and on target and I modify my range cards where necessary.

Im not a big fan of the iPhone as a platform, so I use an iPad mini. But iOS sucks. If I was to do anything, I would use FFS on a Trimble or something like that. I have used ballistic AE, shooter, TRASOL, AB mobile, and BallisticsARC. I like ballistic AE, TRASOL and AB Mobile the most. I like having multiple to validate against each other.

Id say where the calculator shines is when you have the opportunity to shoot at a distance where you have never done before you can get a solution and probably get a hit.

But again, it's just a tool. Nothing is better than actual real data from actual shots down range.

 

[morganlamprecht]

nothing at all wrong with how youre doing it, for my main loads in 6/6.5/308 i keep a set of DOPE cards on my pack once i get my DOPE hammered out and stick with a bullet for a while.

the advantage of the apps (i hate using my phone in the field so i use an AB Kestrel, but i do have ballistic AE on my phone) is you can do all of the tweaking on the fly...if youre shooting different bullets/loads/etc it makes it a lot easier to keep all of that organized...ive shot some new bullets in matches and had to do some BC truing for targets past 1000 yds on 1 stage and once i had it trued up it was good to for the rest of the match...last year i shot 2 different 6.5 bullets, 3 different 6mm bullets, and 2 different 308 bullets...its less hassle to just click a couple buttons than to have to keep up with the printed sheets when youre experimenting

 

[Beiruty]

With the new tools, you need to have
1) Accurate BC G7 or Radar-based profile for your the bullet you are shooting
2) Accurate MV
3) Accurate weather data

If 1) and 2) are not that accurate at the range, you can shoot at some distance, say 500 yards and assume 1) and true 2) using the trueing feature of the app.
Done.

Now, Calac will get you accurate dope immediately. That is true up distance where Bullet velocity starts going below 1.2Mach

 

[CoryT]

Since you seem to be successful with 3K increments, you are not shooting far enough to take advantage of real-time calculations of trajectory. You don't seem to have trajectory problems that require a computer on-site, so there is not much reason for you to have a field computer.

FFS on the Trimble system is designed to permit precise solutions of difficult trajectory problems where a simple dope card would not deliver an acceptable solution. Example: You are zeroed at sea level, and have been deployed to the Hindu Kush with an elevation of 10K+. You will not have time to develop actual dope from live fire. The first shot is 2140 yards, 16 degrees down angle.

Clearly this is an extreme case but it makes the point clear. The software will do many, many things, but if you don't require those things, so what? Do you need to shoot through a chain link fence 115 yard out with a target another 204 yards past it? Do you need to shoot 3 targets in sequence at 312, 822 and 507 with an 80 degree swing in a 12mph cross wind? Do you often engage targets beyond 1500 yards? Do you have a requirement for 4 different types of ammo for one rifle? These are the kinds of problems where a software solution can really improve your performance. Every one of these can be solved with a good dope book and someone who knows what they are doing, but the computer will be far faster and more accurate.

 

[Jaeger308]

Getting firing solutions real time using a solver may not always be available due to time constraints, quality range cards are quick and most of the time good enough out to mid range. Where I think solvers work well is during training sessions, start to reverse engineer solutions. After you get impacts on target from adjusted try dope or initial calculated solutions, then revert to the solver to workout that particular solution in detail. This works especially well in XLR training and wind calls.