Gunsmithing extractor help

[viva la figa]

SO I have been trying to find a few things on my Rem 700 Long action in 300 win mag....such as the length to the lands and also how far I should be bumping the shoulder back.

I came across this:


Originally posted by Sheldon N View Post

Since this was the first firing some of the cases may not be fully blown out to chamber dimensions. That would lead me towards bumping back from the longer dimension cases rather than basing off the shorter cases.

To confirm, I would also double check the feel on bolt close after sizing. Measure diameter at the base and just below the shoulder to make sure you've got adequate body sizing from your die, then pull your firing pin spring and ejector plunger so you can feel bolt close on a piece of sized brass. I like to size to the point where there's just a tiny bit of feel when closing the bolt, just before the bolt falls freely with no effort. Once you've got that number then stick with it. This video helps show it...

https://youtu.be/WfWS7R1CdZI


IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AND I HAVE TRIED TO DO THE SAME AS IN THE VIDEO BUT I AM GETTING SOME SPRINGY TENSION FROM THE EXTRACTOR....HOW DO I ELIMINATE THAT? HOW DO YOU REMOVE THE EXTRACTOR WITHOUT HAVING TO REPLACE IT OR BUY A TON OF EXPENSIVE TOOLS?

Please Help!

 

[Supersubes]

In sheldon's post, he's talking about the ejector, not the extractor. It's retained by a roll pin. I actually prefer prefer leaving it in, as it allows me to thrust the bolt forward to feel headspace. I shoot for a small amount of headspace, not zero headspace as sheldon does.


edit. The roll pin can be pressed in and out at least a few times. If it gets hammered and loses tension, just replace the roll pin. There are tools that help with removal/reinstall of the ejector. Check out brownells.

 

[viva la figa]

Sorry yes....you are very correct. Got my "E"s muddelled up.

If you keep the ejector in the bolt...then wouldnt you need to take up the spring tension in the ejector to allow the bolt to properly close and feel where the head space is?

 

[Supersubes]

I shoot for one to two thou of space, not touching. If i leave the ejector in, i can thrust the bolt forward(against the ejector spring) and feel that space. It's easy to discern no movement from just a fraction of a thou(or much more than that).

 

[viva la figa]

I understand that you can thrust it forward and feel the headspace but wouldnt you need the ejector spring to be taken up so that the bolt will freely close like in the video?

Still a bit confused.

 

[Supersubes]

Are you currently reloading 300 wm, or any other cartridge? Have you tried checking case fit in your rifle with the striker removed from the bolt? Do you have a means of measuring the headspace dimension of a case?

 

[viva la figa]

Yes I am reloading or 300wm as well as a few others. I have removed the firing pin and spring assembly from the bolt and still cant get the smooth feel of the bolt knob smoothly falling when I close it like in the video. I believe this is due to the ejector spring tension?

I have been trying to figure out what the headspace number is as well as the max over all length that I can seat the bullet.

Basically I am trying to reproduce the results of the video in the original post.

I am somewhat new to this (I am at the point where I know how much I dont know)....and would appreciate any help in learning this lesson.

 

[Supersubes]

You can duplicate that easily. You know what the bolt falling closed on an empty chamber feels like(falls under gravity alone). You can feel what an undersised case feels like to close on(you would only feel the resistance of the ejector at that point) AND you can thrust the bolt forward to feel/hear how much space there is (and measure with a caliper to correlate it). With an oversized case, the bolt will close hard to varying degrees based upon how oversized it is(no need to cram it closed, too big is too big).


Its no issue whatsoever to to discern between the resistance provided by the ejector(which is consistent), and the force required to cam the action closed on an oversized case. Since im NOTgoing for a "touching" headspace dimension on my cases, I need to be able to thrust the bolt(which I can feel and hear better with the ejector in).


On another note, as a personal preference, i dont want a piece of brass to be at a touching dimension for two reasons. A case that sizes slightly longer will cause a hard close. Size 50 cases and see what the tolerence for headspace is. It will be around .001, if youre really consistent. That means inevitably the longer ones will close hard. And secondly, a slightly dirty chamber will cause a hard close. Combine those two and you get a really hard close, maybe enough to stop the gun. You lose nothing by having a small amount of space, like .002.

 

[Supersubes]

Here's a short vid to show you what I'm talking about

https://youtu.be/hUepAlrASbM

 

[viva la figa]

Here's a short vid to show you what I'm talking about

https://youtu.be/hUepAlrASbM

DUUUUUUUDE! You are the reason I love this forum!!!!! Thank you so much for putting that together for me! really good info...I will need to re watch it several times to absorb all the knowledge you just laid down hahaha.

 

[viva la figa]

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...per-s-hide-reloading/6591717-help-with-sizing

So I posted this in another part of the forums....let me ask you this.....With brass that are both once fired (FC brass was fired out of my custom rifle and the Norma brass was once fired then FL sized) The issue I am having is that despite the Norma brass being withing saami spec (and the exact same or smaller in all dimensions (except just above the case belt where the Norma brass is .001" bigger) when compared to the FC brass that chambers easily) it is still sticking.

Would love to hear your input.

Thanks again for your time and helpful info!

 

[Supersubes]

Hit me up if you have any more questions. There are a few things I didnt mention in the vid that I thought of later.


I responded in your sizing thread. I dont know that there is an easy solution. You could get lucky with another brand FL die that has more sizing in that area, or just reaches firther down the case. I would take a few cases, mark them up and see exactly where things are scrubbing. Id also be careful about running the die all the way down to cam over on a winmag. Maybe you just did that in the quest to get the area above the belt to size, but you could be working the shoulder/ body way too much. If the winmag is going to be a staple for you along with once fored brass, the specialty die will probably save you some money and headache down the road.

Are you heavily vested in the once fired norma? As I wrote in your other thread, im not a fan of once fired. The cost savings isnt worth it imo, and I dont like the unknown history (even if fired in the same rifle).

Look into peterson brass. Good stuff, and reasonably priced.

 

[spife7980]

I understand that you can thrust it forward and feel the headspace but wouldnt you need the ejector spring to be taken up so that the bolt will freely close like in the video?

Still a bit confused.

Short answer is yes. You want to remove the ejector as well as the firing pin so that you dont have it pushing/pivoting the case forward and to the side or of the firing pin getting caught by the trigger stuff if your goal is to get the true feel of the case fit.

No, you dont need any fancy bolt disassembly tools even though they are marketed.

Hope I can explain this properly with out pics or vids of my actually doing it

I hold the bolt in my left hand so that it is upside down with the bolt face pointing away from me and wrap my ring and pinky finger around to keep it in my grasp. I then take a punch (or nail with the point filed off which is what I actually use) and beginning hammering the roll pin out a tiny bit at a time. I choose to support the nail with my thumb and middle finger that are wrapped around the bolt body so that the punch stays in line with the hole. You can drive the roll pin out completely easily enough but be careful that you leave the punch inserted, if you pull it out at this point the ejector and spring will rocket across the room and be forever lost into the void. I take a case, insert it under the extractor and then use my left pointer finger to pull it back into the bolt face suppressing the ejector and lessening spring tension on the punch. Remove the punch and slowly let the case forward so that the ejector comes out in a controlled manner rather than like a rocket. It should pull out and you will see how it has a grove in one side that the roll pin interfaces with that keeps it held in the bolt. You can also do all of this in a zip loc to avoid losing it as well and wouldnt be a bad idea for a first time. Just reverse the steps to put it back in.


This pic shows what generally needs to happen, just punch the retaining pin out and the ejector will be able to slide forward and out of the bolt. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/user1576464.sites.myregisteredsite.com\/sitebuildercontent\/sitebuilderpictures\/remlightejectorsprkit.jpg"}[/IMG2]


To remove the firing pin you will want to use some old bootlaces or the edge of a table you dont care about scratching up [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FMU\/4P4S\/ITREBZLP\/FMU4P4SITREBZLP.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]


Factory 700s have the dime slot, an aftermarket like PTGs assembly does not, youll just have to keep the shoelace pulling it back the entire time until it is clear. If it slips thats fine, just restring it and keep going.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FVT\/AX1X\/ITREBZM3\/FVTAX1XITREBZM3.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Disassembling the Bolt Step 4","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FJ1\/LZNX\/ITREBZWW\/FJ1LZNXITREBZWW.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FXO\/RRH2\/ITRE5SYO\/FXORRH2ITRE5SYO.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]


credit for firing pin pics goes to http://www.instructables.com/id/Remi...d-Disassembly/

 

[viva la figa]

Short answer is yes. You want to remove the ejector as well as the firing pin so that you dont have it pushing/pivoting the case forward and to the side or of the firing pin getting caught by the trigger stuff if your goal is to get the true feel of the case fit.

No, you dont need any fancy bolt disassembly tools even though they are marketed.

Hope I can explain this properly with out pics or vids of my actually doing it

I hold the bolt in my left hand so that it is upside down with the bolt face pointing away from me and wrap my ring and pinky finger around to keep it in my grasp. I then take a punch (or nail with the point filed off which is what I actually use) and beginning hammering the roll pin out a tiny bit at a time. I choose to support the nail with my thumb and middle finger that are wrapped around the bolt body so that the punch stays in line with the hole. You can drive the roll pin out completely easily enough but be careful that you leave the punch inserted, if you pull it out at this point the ejector and spring will rocket across the room and be forever lost into the void. I take a case, insert it under the extractor and then use my left pointer finger to pull it back into the bolt face suppressing the ejector and lessening spring tension on the punch. Remove the punch and slowly let the case forward so that the ejector comes out in a controlled manner rather than like a rocket. It should pull out and you will see how it has a grove in one side that the roll pin interfaces with that keeps it held in the bolt. You can also do all of this in a zip loc to avoid losing it as well and wouldnt be a bad idea for a first time. Just reverse the steps to put it back in.


This pic shows what generally needs to happen, just punch the retaining pin out and the ejector will be able to slide forward and out of the bolt. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/user1576464.sites.myregisteredsite.com\/sitebuildercontent\/sitebuilderpictures\/remlightejectorsprkit.jpg"}[/IMG2]


To remove the firing pin you will want to use some old bootlaces or the edge of a table you dont care about scratching up [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FMU\/4P4S\/ITREBZLP\/FMU4P4SITREBZLP.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]


Factory 700s have the dime slot, an aftermarket like PTGs assembly does not, youll just have to keep the shoelace pulling it back the entire time until it is clear. If it slips thats fine, just restring it and keep going.
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FVT\/AX1X\/ITREBZM3\/FVTAX1XITREBZM3.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Disassembling the Bolt Step 4","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FJ1\/LZNX\/ITREBZWW\/FJ1LZNXITREBZWW.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/cdn.instructables.com\/FXO\/RRH2\/ITRE5SYO\/FXORRH2ITRE5SYO.MEDIUM.jpg"}[/IMG2]


credit for firing pin pics goes to http://www.instructables.com/id/Remi...d-Disassembly/

Thank you for this! I have done what you described once before and it works quite well. I am going to give Supersubes method a try first when I get a chance and see how it goes! Now that I know what to look for with the ejector in I think I will be more successful!

 

[spife7980]

I should have clarified a bit. For sizing brass leaving it in it fine as its a little coarser of a measurement and has some different factors in play. I've never stripped mine for that either as I want to know how it feels so I leave it in.

But for finding the distance to the lands with a bullet stripping it all is a much much much better method. You'll be feeling that brass instead of just the bullet if you don't. I've tried to get away with it myself but it just doesn't work the same.