F T/R rifle

[sniper7369]

I'm having a problem deciding which of my rifles to use for the local F class matches. I have a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .308 and a Colt CAR A-3 Elite Match in .223. I would be using a Burris Signature Series 6-26 X 44 for glass on either of them.
I've developed a decent load for the .308 using the Sierra 168gr MK and RE-15 and for the .223 I've been using the Sierra 69gr MK and Varget.
My biggest concern is the stock on the Remington. It seems very "flexy" and the free float clearance is very small. I really don't have the money right now to replace it either.
Our matches are only shot at 300 yards, so the obvious advantages of the .308 round at longer ranges seem to be less of an issue for me.
At any rate, I would like to get some opinions from you all as to which rifle you would use. Thanks.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: F T/R rifle

What distance will you be shooting your F-Class matches at and at what altitude?

I'll also suggest you get a login to this site and start poking around there. Lots of good info.

http://www.usrifleteams.com/

 

[sniper7369]

Re: F T/R rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What distance will you be shooting your F-Class matches at and at what altitude?

I'll also suggest you get a login to this site and start poking around there. Lots of good info.

http://www.usrifleteams.com/ </div></div>

Thanks for that link, I'll check that out. I'll be shooting 300 yards, just a hair above sea level.

 

[Sig685]

Re: F T/R rifle

There are a couple of things to consider.

1- Which rifle if more accurate when you shoot it for a number of rounds? F-class's X-ring at 300 yards is 1.47 inch in diameter; the 10-ring is under 3 inches. You will need to shoot 17 or 22 rounds (depending on the course of fire,) in under 25 minutes. I actually like to get it done under 10 minutes provided I get good pit service and the conditions don't change drastically. This means the barrel will get hot. If the POI changes when the barrel heats up, you will have "challenges." Heavier barrels usually rule the day.

2- I shoot the .223 at 300/500/600. I use an 80gr SMK at 300, never the 77 or 69 or what have you. Is your twist fast enough to stabilize the 80gr or are you stuck with the 69gr because you have a 1:9? If you can shoot the 80s, I would recommend those. This is not Service Rifle, you need serious accuracy to be competitive here.

3- For 300 yards the 168SMK or equivalent should work very well, I used to drive the 168 w/ 46gr of Varget. I shoot a different bullet now, for the longer distances.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: F T/R rifle

The 223 will be cheaper to shoot, will shoot "on call" meaning as you improve your shooting ability the results will show up on target, and will be a great way to get going at 300 yard F-Class (F-TR specifically). You might consider changing out the A2 buttstock with some form of Magpul stock that lets you adjust the LOP, cheek height, and has a flat on the bottom (rides the rear bag better).

Have fun and tell us how it goes!! Glad to see you are getting out on a KD range for some shoot. The sport needs participation.

 

[GorbashUK]

Re: F T/R rifle

Always go for the 308, bigger bullet and less wind trouble. A decent wind will give you grief with a 69gr head, a fast moving 168 smk (2650fps) should buck the wind just fine. Makes a bigger hole too, could be the difference between a V and a 5. Dale

 

[Sig685]

Re: F T/R rifle

Fuscalino, there is no V or 5 in F-class at 300 yards.

 

[sniper7369]

Re: F T/R rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2- I shoot the .223 at 300/500/600. I use an 80gr SMK at 300, never the 77 or 69 or what have you. Is your twist fast enough to stabilize the 80gr or are you stuck with the 69gr because you have a 1:9? If you can shoot the 80s, I would recommend those. This is not Service Rifle, you need serious accuracy to be competitive here.
</div></div>

That is one of the things that has me thinking about this so much. I AM stuck with the 69gr because I have a 1:9 twist, and the effect of wind on the lighter bullet concerns me.
Then again, the factory stock on the SPS leaves a lot to be desired.
Do you think the AR with the 69grSMK would be accurate enough to be competitive? The only long range shooting experience I have was what I did in the Army, so I am at something of a loss here as to what I will need.

I very much appreciate all the information and opinions so far guys, thanks.

 

[eddybo]

Re: F T/R rifle

Even with the slow twist I would shoot the 223. I aint no recoil sensitve guy but I do find after 60 or so rounds that I shoot the lighter recoiling rounds better.

 

[Ritten]

Re: F T/R rifle

I'd say if your SPS can still hold 1 minute between shot 1 and shot 20 in a string then stay with the .308. At 300yds it will be all about which rifle is more consistent with you driving it.

 

[Sig685]

Re: F T/R rifle

Eddybo speaks wisely. 66+ rounds prone in one day will get my attention on a .308. I get absolutely no kick from my AR and I can concentrate on shooting without worrying about the recoil, round after round.

On my newly built .308 I put in a great big heavy barrel to help tame the recoil, but that's for LR.

What Ritten says is correct and somewhat what I was trying to say earlier. The barrel must not start drifting on you during the match or you will just be wasting your time and ammo.

Now, if you are stuck with a 1:9 twist, forget the 69gr SMK and look for something else. I would suggest you look at the Berger offering in VLD bullets for the 1:9 twist, their 70gr VLD. The also have a 73gr match bullet. Also Swampy has 75gr VLDs that he says need an 1:8.5 twist. Maybe if you load them hot they would stabilize. Give him a call and ask him. www.swampworks.com He's a good guy and I have been using his bullets for a while now.

Oh, and by the way, 300 yards is NOT long range shooting, it's the shortest of the mid range distances. I think of it as very short range now. But to answer your question, I don't know. How well do you read the wind? How accurate is your entire shooting system? Can you hold that mythical 1 MOA for 22 rounds, like Ritten talks about. F-class has very small targets and it's very demanding for accuracy. The only way to find out is to go to a match and try it out. Get either rifle set up, load some good ammo, get a 100 yard zero and add 4-5 MOAs and go try it out. Do not expect to win or even do well your first time out; do expect to learn a lot of stuff and enjoy yourself. Try it once with the .223 and the next time with the .308 and see which one has more potential for you. You don't have to buy anything now, in fact I would urge you to not buy anything but ammo or components until you have tried a couple of matches.

I, and many others here, will be happy to discuss your findings and help confuse you further, I mean help set you on your way to fame and glory.

 

[sniper7369]

Re: F T/R rifle

Haha, yeah, the more I look into this the more confusing it seems to get.
The F class shooting is a totally different animal for me. When I used to shoot 800-1,000 meters we were just shooting to knock down an E type silhouette, which I was very good at. I regularly shot at least 38 and often 40 out of 40 during qualifications with the M-16. Again though, just to knock down an e type out to 300 meters, nothing spectacular. The tiny targets in F class even at short ranges like 300 yards seems like they will be fairly difficult.
With the SPS I can easily keep 20 rounds on the head portion of a B-27B target at 430 yards at a fairly rapid rate of fire, but I can do the same thing with the AR. It's the extremely tight groups on those dinky little targets that I'm not sure if I can pull off.

I think I will take your advice to set up both rifles and try them in a match and see what happens. Even if it turns out that I suck, it still looks like it'd be a heck of a good time.

 

[GorbashUK]

Re: F T/R rifle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fuscalino, there is no V or 5 in F-class at 300 yards. </div></div>

I shoot fclass here in the UK, we score V,5,4,3,2,1. We awant those V's.