Farm progress

[JosephMR]

Fact,...Electronics are not needed to pass emission laws, or control sub systems. Electronics are end game money makers for the mfg, an are huge cash cows when you totally control the software,.... no matter the type of equipment it's on. 100% control, Cradle to grave is the end game.

If you want to be a successful farmer today, electronics are pretty much needed. GPS saves us thousands of dollars a year, while also allowing us to be more efficient.

The end game is that a few global mega corporations control all food production.
From the seeds you are "allowed" to plant, after begging to buy them from your corporate overlords, to the farm vehicles you are "allowed" to run if and when your corporate overlords get around to letting you pay them.

Those stupid contracts JD now tries to get farmers forced to sign where if their tractor won't work because the software won't let it start until they pay a "dealer" to come out and change the oil... but the dealer can't get around to it in time and they loose the crop.... tough luck???

It's actually one of the things I find I often get the "Earth warrior" types onboard about needing good guns... Who needs an AR? Farmers to fight against corporations!

Most of this is bullshit. JD makes you sign no contract, and seed companies have all kinds of seeds you can plant, outside of field corn you can even replant seed you produce yourself (well at least with the crops I have knowledge of). We run the newest equipment John Deere has to offer and we do a lot of the maintenance on the machines ourselves, and even quite a bit of the repairs, we dont even use Deere oil or filters for the most part anymore.

As a mechanic I think it is bullshit that the dealers are allowed a monopoly on the diagnostic software.

I worked at a dealership (vehicle not farm equipment)for 25 years and when the government said "you must share with everyone" there was a huge panic we would be without work. That never happened.

I am not one for government intervention but this is probably a case where they should. The issue is the manufacturers REFUSE to sell the software to anyone outside the dealership network.

It isn't the fact that computers are involved, it is that the owner can't communicate with it.
When a $200 sensor can shut down a $150,000 machine and the dealer doesn't give a fuck crops are going bad that is a problem.
Farming is a fickle thing, crops are only worth harvesting for a short time. It isn't like a contractor who can take a rain day and just resume the job with no I'll effects the next day.
The dealers are screwing themselves over in the long run.
When you own something you should be able to do with it as you wish.

It doesn't make sense for dealers to screw over their customers, how would Deere or the dealers profit if they did? Though I do agree with most of your sentiments. But depending on the crop they can sit in the field for a long time.










Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Momma Deere, but there is a crap ton of false information in here, people read one article (which didn't even get the story straight) and they think they know.

 

[JosephMR]

Cars have been well-hacked for decades, and many manufacturers have been smart enough not to completely screw independent mechanics. For example, GM allows just about any jamoke with a credit card to access AC Delco TDS. Legally, they maintain some pretty scary concepts on ownership of a modern vehicle's software, but from a practical standpoint, they're not actively trying to screw anyone. And once again, note my comments above about the Library Of Congress ruling on this matter.

John Deere, on the other hand, has taken a deliberately antagonistic approach to its customers. If you aren't an employee of JD, then you don't get authorized access to the software that is required to perform even the most basic maintenance and service tasks. And if you try to hack their machines to gain this access, they sic lawyers on your ass using DMCA and whatever other justification they can invent. It's bad enough where JD owners have hired hackers from outside the US to gain access (and hackers *always* win this game - just ask the automotive OEs who have played these cat-and-mouse games since the 80s).

Hell Momma Deere will sue it's own dealers if they cross over the line just a bit, and accuse you of all kinds of stuff even if you're just using information their machines broadcast but don't use.

 

[Bender]

I've said this to my wife, friends and my dad and have always gotten looked at like I'm weird.

Whoever makes cars with current performance, yet in a way (build style as well as material quality) where you can keep your car and repair it, will start to gain massive marketshare.

Couple this with the insane cost of new vehicles, with lower quality than cars in the 90s, and you'll see how viable it is.

It's one of the reasons I went from Jaguars and almost buying a Cayman R to buying a vehicle I love, that I can also easily fix and add things to.

so you bought a Subaru too?

 

[Sean the Nailer]

My uncle's TD9 (crawler) started as a gas engine, then when it was warmed up you slid the shuttle over and inertia started the diesel system. Quite the design.

Then he sold it for scrap.

 

[TheGerman]

so you bought a Subaru too?

No. I'm not a fat lesbian.

 

[alpine44]

My uncle's TD9 (crawler) started as a gas engine, then when it was warmed up you slid the shuttle over and inertia started the diesel system. Quite the design.

Then he sold it for scrap.

Almost bought a TD9 for the coolness factor but the carriage was too far gone for the price.

Inline Diesel engine with inline diesel injection pump.

Head has a third valve per cylinder that opens a chamber with spark plug in it. The lever opening the third valves also switches a flapper in the intake that causes air to be drawn through a gasoline carburator.

You start on gasoline that is ignited by the sparkplug in the chambers . The additional volume of the chamber will lower the cylinder compression ratio to a level suitable for gasoline.

When the block is warm, you advance the rack on the diesel injection pump and simultaneously push the lever that closes the third valves and switches the intake flapper to bypass the carburator.

An ingenious design that will start in the coldest weather on a relatively modest battery or even a hand crank but is a bit more complex and costly to manufacture compared to a straight diesel.

In the following video the operator closes the fuel valve on the gasoline tank, waits until the carburator is almost empty, and then switches to diesel.

 

[madppcs]

I have a 12 or 13 (Cant remember) Kubota M5140 cab model. Last year before the emissions were installed. Dealer specifically told me to hang on to this model cause itll retain value from not having emissions equipment. Since then, ive thought about trading in for a bigger model. And because of that, I dont want to lose what I have.

But my diesel truck (2010 Ram with a 6.7 cummins) and its fully deleted, tuner, and a couple other bolt ons. Im making alot of power and economy is great. Does anyone know if theres a comparable aftermarket for tractors? IN other words if I were to sell/trade my Kubota with no emission equipment, for a brand new bigger model loaded with emissions equipment, can I source delete packages and tuners?

I guess google could help me with this question too lol

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

If you want to be a successful farmer today, electronics are pretty much needed. GPS saves us thousands of dollars a year, while also allowing us to be more efficient.

May be, if your a row cropper only. I grew up in the day of 50 bpa corn. When we broke 100 bpa we were making less net for the year percentage wise than the 50 days. As time went on yes the yield went up but the net pocket money did not grow per centage wise like one would think as market price dropped do to production quanitys. I remember when we went from 3 bottom to 5 same thing happened happened as well as when we stepped up to 8 over 5. Bigger machines allowed less hands but in refection in our A/O (N/central Indiana) all agreed the gain was in reality a loss for most. Ours was a total of 575 acres with 470 in row crops the rest in pasture for live stock, bldgs, ditches, home ect. One neighbor never went past 3 bottoms but only had 125 acres total an his net was almost the same as most everyone else. He did a lot of square bailing for others an had many school kids on tap for those who were lacking help(I was one of those as well when not being worked on ours) Once all us kids went off to the military or college, upon our return many things changed as the newest crop of kids never wanted anything to do with farms. Hence the start of round bails an many other advances. I understand the reasoning behind advancements but when you stop home/local roving repair, that gets into you pocket quick an with the lite margins most farmers are dealing with that can make or break a family operation. The push to do away with family farms started long ago, control the food, control those not capable feed their selfs. Which in todays world with most everyone being nothing more than a one trick pony, is a very high percentage of the bulk.

 

[MtnCreek]

The only sq bales you'll see around here are to sell to horse owners. Those are sold out of a barn, not the field. The average horse owner won't buy hay until they need to feed it.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Back in my day it was all square but in the late 60's when most went off the round took over for cattle. Some still do square around there an some of it is transported to lower Fla for horses. It was really fun throwing 80 lb bails into a hay loft on 95* days. We would fight (yes knock down drag outs) over who was going to haul the wagons to an from an load the elevator.

 

[RRG]

Socialist environmentalist fucking with free trade and capitalism again and
Again. And our elected government representatives support this errosion of freedom!!
Just saying! Are we really free?

 

[JMGlasgow]

I have a 12 or 13 (Cant remember) Kubota M5140 cab model. Last year before the emissions were installed. Dealer specifically told me to hang on to this model cause itll retain value from not having emissions equipment. Since then, ive thought about trading in for a bigger model. And because of that, I dont want to lose what I have.

But my diesel truck (2010 Ram with a 6.7 cummins) and its fully deleted, tuner, and a couple other bolt ons. Im making alot of power and economy is great. Does anyone know if theres a comparable aftermarket for tractors? IN other words if I were to sell/trade my Kubota with no emission equipment, for a brand new bigger model loaded with emissions equipment, can I source delete packages and tuners?

I guess google could help me with this question too lol

No, you cannot delete the DPF or if you're above 75hp the DOC or DEF tank. I've heard that it has been done in Europe (not verified) but not here. I'm a Kubota technician fwiw.

The Kubota emissions are pretty robust as long as you know what the machine is telling you. A majority of the issues I see are operator related issues. You can't let the new engines idle all day, the emissions can't function and do its job idling and you'll end up with a large shop bill.

As far as farmers and ranchers working on their own equipment, fine. If you don't know what you're doing with the software or cheap out on parts, fluids and filters and cause issues, I don't want to hear about how much it'll cost to fix properly.

For example, Kubota common rail injection fuel filters are rated at 5 micron filtration. Aftermarket filters that "fit" are rated at 10-12 microns. That cheap aftermarket filter just clogged your injectors and now costs you $700+ per injector and labor to install and program them for the correct calibration number.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

No, you cannot delete the DPF or if you're above 75hp the DOC or DEF tank. I've heard that it has been done in Europe (not verified) but not here. I'm a Kubota technician fwiw.

The Kubota emissions are pretty robust as long as you know what the machine is telling you. A majority of the issues I see are operator related issues. You can't let the new engines idle all day, the emissions can't function and do its job idling and you'll end up with a large shop bill.

As far as farmers and ranchers working on their own equipment, fine. If you don't know what you're doing with the software or cheap out on parts, fluids and filters and cause issues, I don't want to hear about how much it'll cost to fix properly.

For example, Kubota common rail injection fuel filters are rated at 5 micron filtration. Aftermarket filters that "fit" are rated at 10-12 microns. That cheap aftermarket filter just clogged your injectors and now costs you $700+ per injector and labor to install and program them for the correct calibration number.

The root issue is people buying shit like that in the first place. Much like marrying for tits an ass. Not everything is as it appears up front most of the time an paying for shit on the back side is costly.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Well then go to Washington and petition our shit government to get rid of restrictive emissions. Until then, if you want a new piece of equipment you'll have to deal with it, and deal with the complexity and cost.

As far as electronics, that is what the corporations think the customers want. Look at new vehicles, they're basically rolling entertainment centers because that's all the majority of buyers care about.

 

[supercorndogs]

I think the idea that an injection pump, is simpler than some wires and a computer opening and closing some solenoids is funny.

OBD2 was a rare hit.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Well then go to Washington and petition our shit government to get rid of restrictive emissions. Until then, if you want a new piece of equipment you'll have to deal with it, and deal with the complexity and cost.

As far as electronics, that is what the corporations think the customers want. Look at new vehicles, they're basically rolling entertainment centers because that's all the majority of buyers care about.

Most People are lazy an that is why that stuff is selling, and as long as it's selling that is all they will make. One of the driving forces is company's buy that shit an just passing along the O&M cost in the product cost. Farmers do not have that option unless they sell directly, locally. However they have the option of not buying the latest an greatest but here again they bought into the eye candy an the lies the sales force spouted.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I'm no farmer or rancher so would you like to elaborate on the lies being told by the sales force?

 

[JosephMR]

May be, if your a row cropper only. I grew up in the day of 50 bpa corn. When we broke 100 bpa we were making less net for the year percentage wise than the 50 days. As time went on yes the yield went up but the net pocket money did not grow per centage wise like one would think as market price dropped do to production quanitys. I remember when we went from 3 bottom to 5 same thing happened happened as well as when we stepped up to 8 over 5. Bigger machines allowed less hands but in refection in our A/O (N/central Indiana) all agreed the gain was in reality a loss for most. Ours was a total of 575 acres with 470 in row crops the rest in pasture for live stock, bldgs, ditches, home ect. One neighbor never went past 3 bottoms but only had 125 acres total an his net was almost the same as most everyone else. He did a lot of square bailing for others an had many school kids on tap for those who were lacking help(I was one of those as well when not being worked on ours) Once all us kids went off to the military or college, upon our return many things changed as the newest crop of kids never wanted anything to do with farms. Hence the start of round bails an many other advances. I understand the reasoning behind advancements but when you stop home/local roving repair, that gets into you pocket quick an with the lite margins most farmers are dealing with that can make or break a family operation. The push to do away with family farms started long ago, control the food, control those not capable feed their selfs. Which in todays world with most everyone being nothing more than a one trick pony, is a very high percentage of the bulk.

And with tech we're getting some of those margins back, a lot of money is saved when you reduce your overlap. As far as Family farms, yes it would be beneficial if we could go back to many small family farms, it will never happen. I work on a Second Generation farm, it started small and grew to the biggest family farm in the county (this year it won't be) but his kids want nothing to with farming, and whose to blame them? Farming is a terrible job, hard work, long hours, tight margins, fairly high mortality rate and your one bad weather event from going bankrupt.

Future generations aren't going to do that.

Well then go to Washington and petition our shit government to get rid of restrictive emissions. Until then, if you want a new piece of equipment you'll have to deal with it, and deal with the complexity and cost.

As far as electronics, that is what the corporations think the customers want. Look at new vehicles, they're basically rolling entertainment centers because that's all the majority of buyers care about.

You don't even need to go to Washington, Nebraska is the key. If you could get Nebraska to pass a right to repair law manufacturers would have to do it country wide. (At least agriculture wise) We've been trying but Republicans are stupid, and our courts are worse.

 

[MtnCreek]

I think the idea that an injection pump, is simpler than some wires and a computer opening and closing some solenoids is funny.

OBD2 was a rare hit.

If it's a $350 mech pump bolted to the side of the block and the only specialized tool needed is a linewrench, then it is more simple.

 

[supercorndogs]

If it's a $350 mech pump bolted to the side of the block and the only specialized tool needed is a linewrench, then it is more simple.

Not realy. I am not aware of an injection pump that doesn't require special tools to work on.

If you are just talking about changing the part. Then most ECM are held on with a couple bolts and you unplug the wires from them. 10mm socks and ratchet.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Not realy. I am not aware of an injection pump that doesn't require special tools to work on.

If you are just talking about changing the part. Then most ECM are held on with a couple bolts and you unplug the wires from them. 10mm socks and ratchet.

Get out of here with that shit! You just said an injection pump takes special tools and then claim an ECM is easier because it's just a 10 mm socket! Noone has a 10mm socket laying around!

 

[supercorndogs]

Working on injection pumps takes special tools. Being a part changing monkey requires metric and SAE tools.

 

[JMGlasgow]

When an old technology diesel injection pump gets replaced, who here knows how to correctly time them? I can tell you probably not many farmers or ranchers. They just install them and as long as it starts and runs it's fine.

How many equipment owners even bother reading the operators manual or purchasing the service manual from the dealer (without complaining how much they cost) to make sure the correct fluids are used or look at service intervals? Oil technology has changed and has increased intervals between services, provides better wear protection, and resistance to thermal breakdown. The wrong fluid can lead to rapid failure of very expensive components like gears and pumps. Napa Universal hydraulic oil and Rotella 15w40 doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[supercorndogs]

I do. I have rebuilt injection pumps for some older cummins and cat engines as well. It cost the owners more than any ECM I changed.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I do. I have rebuilt them for some older cummins and cat engines as well.

I edited my question to be more specific. Are you a farmer or rancher?

 

[Hetzer]

No, you cannot delete the DPF or if you're above 75hp the DOC or DEF tank. I've heard that it has been done in Europe (not verified) but not here. I'm a Kubota technician fwiw.

The Kubota emissions are pretty robust as long as you know what the machine is telling you. A majority of the issues I see are operator related issues. You can't let the new engines idle all day, the emissions can't function and do its job idling and you'll end up with a large shop bill.

As far as farmers and ranchers working on their own equipment, fine. If you don't know what you're doing with the software or cheap out on parts, fluids and filters and cause issues, I don't want to hear about how much it'll cost to fix properly.

For example, Kubota common rail injection fuel filters are rated at 5 micron filtration. Aftermarket filters that "fit" are rated at 10-12 microns. That cheap aftermarket filter just clogged your injectors and now costs you $700+ per injector and labor to install and program them for the correct calibration number.

I'm a Deere tech (construction side), so I get what you're saying. Makes for interesting reading in this thread.

 

[supercorndogs]

I edited my question to be more specific. Are you a farmer or rancher?

Mechanic for about 10 years in a farming community.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I'm no farmer or rancher so would you like to elaborate on the lies being told by the sales force?

Biggest In my day, dealers would lie about heat rates (BTU input vs drawbar HP) they would tell you xx gallons of fuel per HP hour. Fuel is/was a major expense an that would weigh heavily to tip the scales between mfg's When we were looking for a 5 bottom rig it was between J I Case, John Deere, an International Harvester. Once the demo days were over for all three the Case was cheaper to operate fuel wise that the other 3 yet the others touted how well their heat rates were prior to. Also the ground speed of the tools were lied about as well, then came O&M costs. However O&M is directly related to many things an we always took great care of our tools so our O&M was always less than advertised. Once you factor heat rate, tool speed an O&M one can make a intelligent choice, but most walk in listen to the lies an either ink a check of a note believing everything the expert standing there that day told them. The Case was more money up front, but the total life cycle O&M was much cheaper for us vs what others around us paid on the back side for the other Mfg's

 

[JMGlasgow]

I'm a Deere tech (construction side), so I get what you're saying. Makes for interesting reading in this thread.

When we get Deere trade-ins and they need parts or fluids we get them from Deere. Dealer parts are better.

And yes, observing this as an employee at a dealership makes this interesting.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Biggest In my day, dealers would lie about heat rates (BTU input vs drawbar HP) they would tell you xx gallons of fuel per HP hour. Fuel is/was a major expense an that would weigh heavily to tip the scales between mfg's When we were looking for a 5 bottom rig it was between J I Case, John Deere, an International Harvester. Once the demo days were over for all three the Case was cheaper to operate fuel wise that the other 3 yet the others touted how well their heat rates were prior to. Also the ground speed of the tools were lied about as well, then came O&M costs. However O&M is directly related to many things an we always took great care of our tools so our O&M was always less than advertised. Once you factor heat rate, tool speed an O&M one can make a intelligent choice, but most walk in listen to the lies an either ink a check of a note believing everything the expert standing there that day told them. The Case was more money up front, but the total life cycle O&M was much cheaper for us vs what others around us paid on the back side for the other Mfg's

Virtually all of what you wrote is basically greek. Kubota isn't very big in the Ag sector. And I've never heard a salesman use heat btu.

 

[JosephMR]

Virtually all of what you wrote is basically greek. Kubota isn't very big in the Ag sector. And I've never heard a salesman use heat btu.

Total fluid efficiency is the in term today since people often forget to think how DEF usage.
Gotta save the planet one plastic jug and cardboard box at a time after all.

 

[JMGlasgow]

You forgot about increased fuel usage as a result of "saving the planet".

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Virtually all of what you wrote is basically greek. Kubota isn't very big in the Ag sector. And I've never heard a salesman use heat btu.

They used gallons per hr most of the time but we always used BTU content based up on the BTU content of the fuel we used. The Mobil fuels we used had a higher BTU content than all the other fuels around us back then. Most people buy/bought fuel based upon price per gallon however some fuels have a higher BTU content than others. All resip (piston) engines are heat engines, more BTU (heat) input more HP output.
One thing I also forgot above was the lies about cycle times of the hyd systems, on all different models. Back in those days if you knew when their money years was about up you could get demo tractors free or cheap to try out if you worked it right they all would pull the same tool in the same patch an only then did the truth about different mfg's/models come out.

 

[JosephMR]

You forgot about increased fuel usage as a result of "saving the planet".

Yea, wonder what environmentalists would think if they knew we are now purposely flushing un burnt fuel out the exhaust to save the planet.

 

[Bender]

They used gallons per hr most of the time but we always used BTU content based up on the BTU content of the fuel we used. The Mobil fuels we used had a higher BTU content than all the other fuels around us back then. Most people buy/bought fuel based upon price per gallon however some fuels have a higher BTU content than others. All resip (piston) engines are heat engines, more BTU (heat) input more HP output.
One thing I also forgot above was the lies about cycle times of the hyd systems, on all different models. Back in those days if you knew when their money years was about up you could get demo tractors free or cheap to try out if you worked it right they all would pull the same tool in the same patch an only then did the truth about different mfg's/models come out.

Virtually all oil and gas in my line of work is sold and paid for by the BTU. I understood exactly what you were saying in that about the farming equipment. The salesman would lie about BTU per hour usage and when you figure that against different ground speeds and tool pull, The salesman could be very misleading in what he was telling to somebody that didn’t understand how to figure everything out for themselves

 

[vh20]

When an old technology diesel injection pump gets replaced, who here knows how to correctly time them? I can tell you probably not many farmers or ranchers. They just install them and as long as it starts and runs it's fine.

How many equipment owners even bother reading the operators manual or purchasing the service manual from the dealer (without complaining how much they cost) to make sure the correct fluids are used or look at service intervals? Oil technology has changed and has increased intervals between services, provides better wear protection, and resistance to thermal breakdown. The wrong fluid can lead to rapid failure of very expensive components like gears and pumps. Napa Universal hydraulic oil and Rotella 15w40 doesn't cut it anymore.

"Replaced," or rebuilt? If we're just replacing the pump with a rebuilt unit, then yeah, I do know how to externally time it to the engines on my stuff, which is what your question suggests you mean. On the other hand, if you meant "rebuilt," the internal timing is what pump shops are for - test stands, calibration tools, etc.

I also own and consult the owner's and service manuals for all of my tractors (and yes, I guess I might silently complain about the cost, but they are investments just like tools).

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Virtually all oil and gas in my line of work is sold and paid for by the BTU. I understood exactly what you were saying in that about the farming equipment. The salesman would lie about BTU per hour usage and when you figure that against different ground speeds and tool pull, The salesman could be very misleading in what he was telling to somebody that didn’t understand how to figure everything out for themselves

Yep the margins were so low during 50-100 BPA corn, to make it, you needed to watch everything an not just go with the flow. The Farm taught me more about real life, people, an trades that all the rest of my years combined.

 

[JosephMR]

The real problem isn't the equipment, or who works on it. It's the Data.

I shouldn't have to explain on a precision rifle forum how important data is, on the farm it's even more crucial. It's why farmers embrace the tech and how we save money. It's why even small family farms are hiring their own agronomist or sending their kids off to college to be one if they insist on being farmers.

That data is so important and crucial that Deere has told its investors it can go from something like 12% profit to 15% (Can't remember the exact number) just selling that data. The profit margins on data are crazy.

And Deere just takes it, then sells it. Other companies as well.

That is what would prevent me from buying new equipment. But I'm not in charge I just work for a farmer.

It's pretty remarkable what you can do with that data, and who knows what Deere, seed, and chemical companies can do with it. Or others, who ever is buying it, is paying enough to raise the profit margins of a global multi billion dollar company a few percentage points.

 

[vh20]

I like being able to work on everything myself. I'm currently going through a "renewal" (not a showroom restoration, because I still will be working them) of all the tractors I grew up on, all -20 and -40 series John Deeres from '67-'80. I reworked the '78 2440 a few years ago:

 

[supercorndogs]

Nice work.

That thing isn't even big enough to mow the ditches out here.

 

[vh20]

Nice work.

That thing isn't even big enough to mow the ditches out here.

This one is. Different horses for different courses...

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I am a farmer / rancher. I have some very nice Deere equipment.........but none is newer than about 1995. In fact I just bought a new to me tractor a couple of years ago. It will be a career tractor. It is the John Deere 8970. It is the only factory installed Cummins in a Deere tractor. I sought it out because anyone can work on the 855. Lots of power, comfortable, good fuel economy and only pulling an air seeder it will last forever. The newer Deere's equivalent to mine are plastic junk. The interiors fall apart. They are just junk.
I am sick of the proprietary crap with Deere on every fitting, hose, bolt etc. It is so bad with Deere that a year ago I needed the engine dampener for the driveline on my tractor. It should have been identical to a Versatile or Steiger, but hell no. It had one extra bolt in the bolt pattern and was at least twice as high. Someday they will discontinue and I will be screwed. They do this shit on purpose.
I recently bought a new to me 18 year old Case sprayer. It has an 8.3 Cummins. Spray fittings are common at any good ag supply store. After market GPS that is affordable adapts and works great. Very easy to work on, very well built, actually rides better than a newer Deere. GPS for the equivalent Deere is minimum $10,000.
Deere is all about marketing. They love to buy new upcoming technology and shelve it. Their whole research department is nothing more than a XEROX machine. Parts support has become awful the last twenty years, yet they are still my best option without driving two hours everytime I need something.
I will give credit to Deere on the no-till air seeder, however they stopped researching it way to soon. After market parts and farmers have made older models better than new. In fact today I was at a farm show and looking at purchasing a used completely refurbished unit. It will out perform a new Deere.

 

[deersniper]

Bunch of Deere queers all up in here

 

[JosephMR]

I am a farmer / rancher. I have some very nice Deere equipment.........but none is newer than about 1995. In fact I just bought a new to me tractor a couple of years ago. It will be a career tractor. It is the John Deere 8970. It is the only factory installed Cummins in a Deere tractor. I sought it out because anyone can work on the 855. Lots of power, comfortable, good fuel economy and only pulling an air seeder it will last forever. The newer Deere's equivalent to mine are plastic junk. The interiors fall apart. They are just junk.
I am sick of the proprietary crap with Deere on every fitting, hose, bolt etc. It is so bad with Deere that a year ago I needed the engine dampener for the driveline on my tractor. It should have been identical to a Versatile or Steiger, but hell no. It had one extra bolt in the bolt pattern and was at least twice as high. Someday they will discontinue and I will be screwed. They do this shit on purpose.
I recently bought a new to me 18 year old Case sprayer. It has an 8.3 Cummins. Spray fittings are common at any good ag supply store. After market GPS that is affordable adapts and works great. Very easy to work on, very well built, actually rides better than a newer Deere. GPS for the equivalent Deere is minimum $10,000.
Deere is all about marketing. They love to buy new upcoming technology and shelve it. Their whole research department is nothing more than a XEROX machine. Parts support has become awful the last twenty years, yet they are still my best option without driving two hours everytime I need something.
I will give credit to Deere on the no-till air seeder, however they stopped researching it way to soon. After market parts and farmers have made older models better than new. In fact today I was at a farm show and looking at purchasing a used completely refurbished unit. It will out perform a new Deere.

That 8970 doesn't have a yellow pinstripe going down the hood by chance does it?

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

That 8970 doesn't have a yellow pinstripe going down the hood by chance does it?

It has the yellow decal running down each side like all other Deere's. Nothing special.

 

[JosephMR]

It has the yellow decal running down each side like all other Deere's. Nothing special.

We sold one of ours a couple years back, good tractors. I was just curious the odds would be great to find the guy who bought it.

 

[HayStax]

The only thing I can’t afford is not getting the work done! In my operation, a breakdown in front of a storm can lead to big losses due to hay being ruined by rain. We have had SCR failures on new Case tractors that snowballed into huge repair and rental bills. I specifically look for equipment that doesn’t have DEF systems but it’s hard to do. A Right to Repair law would save me thousands of dollars in the event of a breakdown that requires a tech with a laptop just to reset an emissions system or reflash some module. It fucking bullshit that Apple and John Deere have teamed up to fuck farmers and construction workers on these ungodly expensive machines.

The newer equipment is much, much more efficient and generally more reliable than the older stuff. You can try running older stuff but your gonna be broke down and you’re gonna pay a ton for parts - if you can find them. You can bad mouth the electronics all day long but try operating anything more than a hobby farm without it. My GPS subscriptions alone cost more than a lot of the equipment we started out with. I would gladly deal with a few sensors and control issues versus the kind of shit we used to have to fix, but now they have us locked out due to the same tech that makes shit generally better.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

It is the only factory installed Cummins in a Deere tractor. I sought it out because anyone can work on the 855.

The 855, triple nickles, 9,0,nothings & K's engines are bringing mega buck around here. So much so I just had a guy buy all my Cummins stuff for upper & lower counter bore cutting, cam tools an dowel pin kits. He wanted the jig timer an pump tools but I still do lite tinkering depending who it is,... payment wise. Same goes for the 32-33 & 34 series cats no one is shedding them. Infact many guys are buying yellow iron just for the engines an then selling/parting out or scraping the rest.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I guess my main point is I am being very picky on what technology I need and don't need. It is paying off. I am not supporting the shop at my local Deere dealer. My repairs are cheaper and generally fixed faster.
I am probably getting ready to upgrade harvesting and I am not looking forward to it because I won't be able to escape the company on repairs. It is a balancing act.
I am not a hobby farmer by any means, but I don't have ambitions to farm as big as some. I don't feel the need to either never be home or manage hired help beyond what I already have.