Fed up with stuck cases

[jonesy]

So I'm fed up with stuck cases.

Ever since I've started FL sizing instead of neck sizing, I'm getting ~1 stuck case per 100 rounds. I use Hornady OneShot as a case lube, and I use a Forster FL die.

I've attached a picture of my stuck case from tonight. As you can see, I tried getting it out by drilling and tapping the primer pocket for 1/4-20... The GRADE 8 bolt sheared while I was tightening it for removal (you can see the failed bolt where the primer pocket should be). I did not think brass would do this to a Grade 8 bolt.


I have two questions for everyone:

1. Will Forster be able to remove this case for me, or am I fucked and do I have to buy another FL die?
2. How can I avoid stuck cases during FL sizing in the future? I'm sick of it, such a waste of time and patience.

Thanks.

 

[elfster1234]

What I do is spray my brass down with hornady spray lube, BUT i'll smear a small dab of imperial wax in my palm and then work the brass with that hand. Then give the brass another shot of spray lube and smear another small dab of wax in my palm and work the brass again until I'm sure all brass is completely covered... then just let it dry for a little bit (or spray brass just a tad with my airhose), then go to town resizing... I've never had a problem with this method.... ALSO, on the first, and about every 20th, i'll put a small amount of imperial wax on a q-tip and do the inside of the casemouth to keep the decap rod lubed up. Once they are all sized, then they get cleaned in my thumler's thumbler & stainless steel media & HOT water & nice shot of concentrated dish soap & teaspoon lemi-shine for a little over 2hours until all primer pockets are clean.

BTW, make sure the brass is clean before you spray down with lube and resize.

 

[gixxer822]

1. my buddy had one with lee dies cuz of shit lube and we loosened the expander/decapping pin and hammered it down. gently!!! id inspect the die to see if anything up inside tht thing.
2.imperial die wax.

keep posted id like to see how good forster CS is

 

[Dans40X]

Using Imperial Sizing Die wax will eliminate your frustrations.

 

[turbo54]

1. Yes, Forster will remove it no problem.

2. Use a better lubricant than One Shot. I know some people rave about OS lube, but I have not been successful with it, and I've tried using a little, a lot, sizing right away, waiting a while, etc etc etc. Every case feels like it's right on the edge of sticking. Fuck that.

Imperial sizing wax is the gold standard for slick case sizing, but personally I don't like using it unless I'm only sizing a couple cases. I find it to be obnoxious to wipe back off.

Dillon spray lube, which is simply 100% pure liquid lanolin dissolved in 99% Isopropyl rubbing alcohol sizes nicely, but because I do all my sizing in big batches and then use stainless media for tumbling, I've found that a tumbler packed with lanolin-coated cases won't remove all the lanolin without a soapy water change (or two).

Now I use Ivory liquid dish detergent. 1-2 tablespoons will handle ~500pcs of 308(ish) brass. Obviously, it comes right off in the tumbler. The only "trick" to the ivory is to let it sit for 10-15 minutes to "dry" to a waxy film. It rivals Imperial in how slick the cases can be sized.

The only other thought I've got for you is to be sure the die is NICELY polished. Scott's Forster 7-08 sizing die was troublesome, and regardless of how clean it was and what lube he used, the cases sized with a lot of difficulty and always felt like they were on the verge of sticking. He was about to send to Forster to have it checked out but ended up polishing the shit out of it one evening and now reports it works beautifully.

 

[jonesy]

Looks like I'll be switching to Imperial Wax. Heard lots of good things about it and you all are saying no different.

I think my problem might be trying to resize the cases too much? I'm always worried about neck tension not being strong enough when I FL size... maybe I should size a little less from now on.

edit: May end up trying turbo's Ivory detergent method. Heard him talk about it before and it sounds promising.

 

[turbo54]

I think my problem might be trying to resize the cases too much? I'm always worried about neck tension not being strong enough when I FL size... maybe I should size a little less from now on.

Are you using some kind of measuring tool to check how much you're sizing? If not, I'd highly recommend you start.

Regardless, a good die with proper lubrication will *easily* size a case way, way too much...which is to say I don't think sizing your cases too much is what's causing your stuck cases.

ETA: You might try drilling/tapping your case to the next size up (5/16-24). In the future, you should use a UNF size tap, not UNC...meaning 1/4-28, not 1/4-20

 

[jonesy]

Are you using some kind of measuring tool to check how much you're sizing? If not, I'd highly recommend you start.

Regardless, a good die with proper lubrication will *easily* size a case way, way too much...which is to say I don't think sizing your cases too much is what's causing your stuck cases.

I'm using an LE Wilson headspace gage to check the difference before/after sizing. Don't know how else I'd measure the amount sized. The cases will stick before I get to 1 thousandth sized...

 

[turbo54]

I'm using an LE Wilson headspace gage to check the difference before/after sizing. Don't know how else I'd measure the amount sized. The cases will stick before I get to 1 thousandth sized...

Those aren't ideal.

These are popular and work very well:

[video=youtube;P-UrMTyJ1_E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-UrMTyJ1_E[/video]

 

[jonesy]

The Hornady gauge looks much easier to use that what I'm currently doing. Looks like a more solid gauge too.

One other thing that strikes me as strange: the cases that I sized today actually have a harder time chambering than my unsized cases. The sized cases are binding at the base, near the case head, like they buckled under compression and the case body near the head bulged out. Would this be a sign of oversizing?

 

[SavageStag]

I had the same problem with a Forster Benchrest die. I sent it back to them to be polished and problem solved. Also, I switched from One Shot to Imperial wax.

 

[insight3b]

I've only ever stuck one case in my life and at the time I ws using Hornady one-shot also. Switched to DCL about 15 years ago and haven't had a stuck case since. Was using RCBS lube with a pad before the one shot without a stuck case

 

[rodnocker1`]

I only have 1 Forster die (300BLK) so I can't answer that question.

I have used the One Shot and never had a problem with a stuck case although I didn't care for it much and bought a bottle of Dillon lube. It was too expensive so I started making my own (same thing, lanolin & alcohol). I have heard great things about Imperial wax but I don't have any although I may pick some up one day, just to give it a try.

I consider myself blessed in that I have resized in excess of 20,000 pcs of rifle brass (mostly .223/5.56 but also everything else on up to 300 Weatherby Mag) and never had a stuck case.......but I know it's coming.

Reload long enough and it's not "if" but "when" you get a stuck case.

 

[JeremyC]

I use Royal Case lube with good results.

Royal Case & Die Lube*4oz | MidsouthShootersSupply.com

 

[pgk]

Are you tumbling your brass before you resize or after? Iv'e noticed that if I tumble first it helps.

Pete

 

[1lnbrdg]

1. Yes, Forster will remove it no problem.

2. Use a better lubricant than One Shot. I know some people rave about OS lube, but I have not been successful with it, and I've tried using a little, a lot, sizing right away, waiting a while, etc etc etc. Every case feels like it's right on the edge of sticking. Fuck that.

Imperial sizing wax is the gold standard for slick case sizing, but personally I don't like using it unless I'm only sizing a couple cases. I find it to be obnoxious to wipe back off.

Dillon spray lube, which is simply 100% pure liquid lanolin dissolved in 99% Isopropyl rubbing alcohol sizes nicely, but because I do all my sizing in big batches and then use stainless media for tumbling, I've found that a tumbler packed with lanolin-coated cases won't remove all the lanolin without a soapy water change (or two).

Now I use Ivory liquid dish detergent. 1-2 tablespoons will handle ~500pcs of 308(ish) brass. Obviously, it comes right off in the tumbler. The only "trick" to the ivory is to let it sit for 10-15 minutes to "dry" to a waxy film. It rivals Imperial in how slick the cases can be sized.

The only other thought I've got for you is to be sure the die is NICELY polished. Scott's Forster 7-08 sizing die was troublesome, and regardless of how clean it was and what lube he used, the cases sized with a lot of difficulty and always felt like they were on the verge of sticking. He was about to send to Forster to have it checked out but ended up polishing the shit out of it one evening and now reports it works beautifully.

I stuck 3 cases with 1-Shot and haven't used it again.

Pam cooking spray or one of the lanolin lubes does it for me.

 

[MarinePMI]

One other thing that strikes me as strange: the cases that I sized today actually have a harder time chambering than my unsized cases. The sized cases are binding at the base, near the case head, like they buckled under compression and the case body near the head bulged out. Would this be a sign of oversizing?

Sounds like you need a small base die. That or you are using so much force to size them, that the base of the case is swelling. Same thing happens when trying to go straight from .308 to 6.5CM for me; base swells/expands from the pressure as the case is pushed into the die. When the case is removed, the base springs back. SBD used and problem goes away...

 

[turbo54]

One other thing that strikes me as strange: the cases that I sized today actually have a harder time chambering than my unsized cases. The sized cases are binding at the base, near the case head, like they buckled under compression and the case body near the head bulged out. Would this be a sign of oversizing?

Scott's 7-08 die did this too. I think your die just needs a good polish.

 

[P7id10t]

Sounds like you need a small base die. That or you are using so much force to size them, that the base of the case is swelling. Same thing happens when trying to go straight from .308 to 6.5CM for me; base swells/expands from the pressure as the case is pushed into the die. When the case is removed, the base springs back. SBD used and problem goes away...

Jonsey, I've had SBDs stick too. Sometimes a case is gonna stick and no matter what you're farked.
I tumble my cases first, use imperial wax and have still had 2 stick in ~1,000

Looking to try Turbo's idea for dish soap because the wax does suck wiping it off and IMO is more prone to cause dented cases after buildup inside the die.

Here's a song for your woes:
Tenacious D - Fuck Her Gently - YouTube


PS: a grade 8 shearing off in a case? WTF? Made in China?

 

[groovinpickle]

I think my problem might be trying to resize the cases too much? I'm always worried about neck tension not being strong enough when I FL size... maybe I should size a little less from now on.

Polish your expander ball down a thousandth or two if you want to increase neck tension. I put mine in a hand drill and turn it with a little steel wool and some Flitz.

 

[jonesy]

Jonsey, I've had SBDs stick too. Sometimes a case is gonna stick and no matter what you're farked.
I tumble my cases first, use imperial wax and have still had 2 stick in ~1,000

Looking to try Turbo's idea for dish soap because the wax does suck wiping it off and IMO is more prone to cause dented cases after buildup inside the die.

Here's a song for your woes:
Tenacious D - Fuck Her Gently - YouTube


PS: a grade 8 shearing off in a case? WTF? Made in China?

Heh probably made in China, but it's still grade 8.

I really appreciate all the suggestions. I think the consensus is to get my case unstuck by Forster first, then polish and use better lube.

Glad it's probably nothing I'm doing wrong to get these things stuck.

 

[Frank]

One Shot works fine for the high volume pistol cases with a carbide die, they don't require near 100% coverage. But for rifle stuff Imperial, RCBS case lube and a couple other real case lubes get the job done, but you must be sure you get it applied to the case sufficiently. Personally I use a roll pad(ink stamp) and Imperial case neck dry lube on the case necks. Grab the case head, dip in the neck lube bump on the edge and then roll the case body on the pad. Solves the sticking cases and lubes the inside of the neck so the expander button doesn't strech the shoulder back out a little . If your loading for a 223 or 308 get a Mo's guage, makes quick work of case measuring. I think you can order other sizes also.

 

[turbo54]

Couple points:

1. I've always had success removing a stuck case by drilling/tapping 1/4-28. Using a UNF threads just makes sense to me because brass is soft and weak, and the fine threads make stripping less of an issue. In this case, the UNF bolt also has a larger minor thread diameter, giving the bolt more cross-sectional area, thus making it stronger. I've never tried drilling/tapping 5/16-24, but I suspect it would work fine. I'd suggest you use a 5/32 or 3/16" LEFTHAND drill to remove the sheared off bolt from your case (if you can't otherwise remove it). Then drill/tap the case/primerpocket out to 5/16-24 and give it another go at removing your stuck case.

As an aside, I simply chuck up my tap in my cordless drill, put it in low gear, dope the tap with WD40 or tapmagic and powertap the case. This makes nicer, straighter threads than handtapping. It's also faster.

2. The Ivory dish soap lube: Since a couple people have mentioned interest, I figured I'd expound on it a little.

I use an old USPS medium flatrate box as my "lubing box". It works particularly well, now that I've lubed lots and lots of cases in it; it is now well "seasoned" with residual soap that's kinda saturated the cardboard. I dump my cases into the box, squirt some soap on them, knead the soap in with my fingers/hands for a minute, shake the box for a minute, then let it sit to dry out for a little while. The cases are properly lubed when they don't feel "wet" at ALL. They will have a waxy/greasy feel to them when they're right - very similar to the waxy feel of imperial. Beware that if you jump the gun and attempt to size the cases with the soap still wet, you'll stick a case. The soap provides no lubricity until it's dry.

 

[jonesy]

Couple points:

1. I've always had success removing a stuck case by drilling/tapping 1/4-28. Using a UNF threads just makes sense to me because brass is soft and weak, and the fine threads make stripping less of an issue. In this case, the UNF bolt also has a larger minor thread diameter, giving the bolt more cross-sectional area, thus making it stronger. I've never tried drilling/tapping 5/16-24, but I suspect it would work fine. I'd suggest you use a 5/32 or 3/16" LEFTHAND drill to remove the sheared off bolt from your case (if you can't otherwise remove it). Then drill/tap the case/primerpocket out to 5/16-24 and give it another go at removing your stuck case.

UNF would have been the better choice. I couldn't find my 1/4-28 tap anywhere though, and I wanted to get that case out quickly. The larger shear area of the UNF bolt may have prevented the bolt from shearing, but I don't know if the outcome would have been any different. Sometimes, if I'm really trying to get nice threads, I'll chuck the part to be tapped into my lathe and use the ram as a guide to get everything perfectly concentric. Then I'll apply a tiny bit of pressure with the ram as I turn the chuck by hand. This gets me the best possible threads in my experience. No room at all for tap wobble. Oh, I use 1 part engine oil, 1 part WD40 as lube. I find this mixture also makes a good cutting oil for simple machining operations when I don't have any fluid laying around.

As for getting that hardened bolt out... I'm just going to ask Forster if they'll do it for me. Would rather not deal with the frustrations of stuck cases anymore, totally fed up.

 

[Fredo0621]

The best way to use One Shot is to throw all your brass in a ziploc and spray the one shot into the bag(don't be cheap with it). Then just roll the bag around for a minute or two. It helps spread the lube evenly across all the brass.
Don't get me wrong imperial is the best but just takes forever compared to OS and a ziploc.

 

[AZ.noob]

I may try the ziploc bag trick... but I've had nothing but problems with One Shot and 30 cal cases. It works like a charm for 223... but that's a lot less surface area. I use Imperial for my big cases now.

 

[scudzuki]

I have resized 10,000 cases in the last 6 months with Hornady one shot lube.
Not a single stuck case.
Skill 'o the operator?

I use more lube on .308 than .223, that much should be obvious.

Sometimes when I'm running the lubed cases through the FL die, I'll feel a case on the verge of sticking.
I'll hit the rest of the cases (I setup 200 at a time in 4 loading trays) with a light "enhancement" shot of one shot (probably was a little light on that batch, wait a minute, and get back to business.

I am not exaggerating with the 10k cases BTW.

Joe

*edit* it could be the crappy Lee dies that I use exclusively

 

[rg1911]

I'm going to chime in on the side of Hornady's One Shot. Since I use my 650 for just about everything from .30-'06 on down, and I fill tubes with cases (I don't have a Dillon case feeder), there is no way I'm going to apply Imperial (which I like for some chores) to a thousand cases.

My procedure is to dump the cleaned cases into an RCBS tumbler (the one with the big green containers), turn it on and spray the cases as they tumble. I'll admit to probably using more One Shot than is positively necessary. I then let the cases tumble for another couple minutes to make sure the lube is well-distributed. Let it dry for an hour or so and they're good to load. I have never (knock on wood) had a stuck case in my 650.

The part I like, especially when loading large batches of .45ACP for IPSC, or .30 Carbine for my M2s, is that One Shot does not need to be removed from the loaded round, unlike Imperial and other non-drying lubricants.

Richard

 

[Ledzep]

I am very grateful that I found imperial sizing wax as soon as I did in my reloading adventures.

I only ever got one 8x57mm case stuck in a LEE die using lee's case lube. Not a single issue since I started using imperial sizing wax.

 

[EddieNFL]

I have resized 10,000 cases in the last 6 months with Hornady one shot lube.
Not a single stuck case.
Skill 'o the operator?

I've used OS successfully, as well (one can, never again). But every other lube I've tried is more user friendly and requires less sizing effort. I'm skillful enough to cut wood with a dull saw, but I'm smart enough to use a sharp one.

 

[turbo54]

I've used OS successfully, as well (one can, never again). But every other lube I've tried is more user friendly and requires less sizing effort. I'm skillful enough to cut wood with a dull saw, but I'm smart enough to use a sharp one.

Well stated, sir. Well stated.

 

[Rob01]

The best way to use One Shot is to throw all your brass in a ziploc and spray the one shot into the bag(don't be cheap with it). Then just roll the bag around for a minute or two. It helps spread the lube evenly across all the brass.
Don't get me wrong imperial is the best but just takes forever compared to OS and a ziploc.

Exactly how I do it and I have never had a stuck case in tens of thousands of rounds. You need to give it a good coating and then let the propellent dissipate before trying to size. Most every time I hear about stuck cases with one shot it's operator error and not following the directions on the can.

 

[EddieNFL]

Most every time I hear about stuck cases with one shot it's operator error and not following the directions on the can.

Fortunately, all other lubes are formulated to work even when the user ignores the directions...or maybe they're just better lubes. Comparing OS to other lubes is akin to comparing WD40 to Mobil 1 synthetic.

 

[Brasscow]

Here's what I do for everything.

Dump the brass I want to size in a cardboard box. Spray dillon case lube onto cartridges. Shake box and re-coat cartridges with spray. Shake box and re-coat cartridges with spray again. Close box and shake for 20 seconds. Open box, let alcohol evaporate. Size brass.

No stuck cases, tens of thousands of rounds FL sized. I've sprayed batches of 500 308 brass in a box at one time. No problems. Takes about 2 minutes of actual work and five minutes to let alcohol evaporate.

 

[Rob01]

Fortunately, all other lubes are formulated to work even when the user ignores the directions...or maybe they're just better lubes. Comparing OS to other lubes is akin to comparing WD40 to Mobil 1 synthetic.

Well I guess you have to be a little brighter to actually use it then.

And One Shot works perfectly fine when used correctly. It's nothing like your comparison.

 

[EddieNFL]

My apologies. Didn't mean to offend.

As I said, OS works, but other lubes are more efficient.

 

[Rob01]

Didn't offend me but when I see people not use a product per the instructions, which take all of a minute to read, that I have used for years with no problems and then come on and complain that the product doesn't work it's kind of annoying. Use the product properly and it works properly. It's easy to apply and you can do hundreds of cases in short order. I do 300-500 case lots from everything from a .223 to 300WM.

 

[EddieNFL]

...it's kind of annoying.

Why? Unless you take it as a personal insult that someone has differing opinions/experiences...or your last name is Hornady. Time to pull the plug. If it will bolster your self-esteem, I'll leave you with the last word.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

1. Yes, Forster will remove it no problem.

2. Use a better lubricant than One Shot. I know some people rave about OS lube, but I have not been successful with it, and I've tried using a little, a lot, sizing right away, waiting a while, etc etc etc. Every case feels like it's right on the edge of sticking. Fuck that.

Imperial sizing wax is the gold standard for slick case sizing, but personally I don't like using it unless I'm only sizing a couple cases. I find it to be obnoxious to wipe back off.

Dillon spray lube, which is simply 100% pure liquid lanolin dissolved in 99% Isopropyl rubbing alcohol sizes nicely, but because I do all my sizing in big batches and then use stainless media for tumbling, I've found that a tumbler packed with lanolin-coated cases won't remove all the lanolin without a soapy water change (or two).

Now I use Ivory liquid dish detergent. 1-2 tablespoons will handle ~500pcs of 308(ish) brass. Obviously, it comes right off in the tumbler. The only "trick" to the ivory is to let it sit for 10-15 minutes to "dry" to a waxy film. It rivals Imperial in how slick the cases can be sized.

The only other thought I've got for you is to be sure the die is NICELY polished. Scott's Forster 7-08 sizing die was troublesome, and regardless of how clean it was and what lube he used, the cases sized with a lot of difficulty and always felt like they were on the verge of sticking. He was about to send to Forster to have it checked out but ended up polishing the shit out of it one evening and now reports it works beautifully.

Turbo, I have used Imperial Sizing wax with great results. To clean the cases afterwards, I use the Lyman Tumbler with walnut media and a good splash of Denatured Alcohol. Works great, and all the lube comes off well. Just a thought, for those who haven't graduated to SS tumbling yet, or even if you did, and haven't gotten rid of the old media tumbler yet.....

 

[JGorski]

One Shot works best if you shake the can for 1 min before using it. I use it but I like Hornadys Unique better, its much easier to resize with that instead.

 

[demolitionman]

I had different problems than the OP. I had dented cases. I was using rcbs case lube. I switched to ONE SHOT. Best thing I ever did! Super fast, super clean, and not a single dented case now since I switched (200 reloads ago). I'd like to try imperial sizing wax as everyone says its the shizzzy, but I have absolute zero issues with one shot. Well, maybe one issue, it's kinda expensive.

 

[chariotdriver]

The best advice for using OS so far is "don't be cheap with it." It's not as fool-proof as some of the others but it does work and it's quick.

 

[Rob01]

Why? Unless you take it as a personal insult that someone has differing opinions/experiences...or your last name is Hornady. Time to pull the plug. If it will bolster your self-esteem, I'll leave you with the last word.

It's annoying like any other constantly brought up topic here where someone is not doing what they should but complain it's the products fault. When you see the people who use it correctly have no problems and then the ones that don't have problems and complain then it's annoying to read.

I don't need this post to bolster my self esteem. Just trying to explain and answer your question so you can post next if it makes you happy.

 

[Phil1]

I can't imagine using Imperial or any sizing product that has to be applied separately/manually to each case. IMO your problem arises from failing to allow the product time to spread around the case. Shaking it in a zip lock bag is GTG. I use RCBS only because I got a deal on a case.OS and Dillon are also both good products.

With a spray lube give it some time to spread itself around the case, i.e. 3-5 minutes.Use the same lubricating container all the time be it a bag or a tray to conserve product. I use a tray and spread the brass out all facing the same direction. Spray, roll the tray to allow the brass to roll 180 degrees and spray again. Allow to sit 3-5 minutes.

This is more time consuming than all in a bag and shake. But with this method I get the chance to inspect each and every round for defects on all sides.

Its not the product. Somehow you are either not getting full coverage of lube spray, or enough.

 

[DRAM40A1]

If anyone has some OS they are afraid to use,,,,,,I'll take it off of your hands. Just as long as you pay shipping....LOL
I've never had a stuck case because of OS but I did stick one a few days ago from running it in the die with no lube. I sprayed OS inside and outside, drilled and tapped and extracted it in about 5 minutes.

 

[No1]

2. Imperial sizing die wax or 2nd choice Royal Case Lube, I lightly coat my palms/fingers, grab a small handful of cases in one hand and roll the other hand across the cases and off of my finger tips into the tray. I add a but of lube every 2 or 3 handfuls. Gives all the cases a decent coat but doesn't over coat. Doesn't take as long to coat 500 cases as one might think, but why obsess about a few extra minutes of case prep when there are more important things to obsess about.

 

[demolitionman]

It takes me 15 seconds to lube 40 cases with one shot. Saves me soooo much time! I'm never going back to rolling pad or applying by hand! I'm gonna try cooking spray next when my fiancé isn't looking lol!

 

[MJY65]

Here's what I do for everything.

Dump the brass I want to size in a cardboard box. Spray dillon case lube onto cartridges. Shake box and re-coat cartridges with spray. Shake box and re-coat cartridges with spray again. Close box and shake for 20 seconds. Open box, let alcohol evaporate. Size brass.

No stuck cases, tens of thousands of rounds FL sized. I've sprayed batches of 500 308 brass in a box at one time. No problems. Takes about 2 minutes of actual work and five minutes to let alcohol evaporate.

I use a very similar procedure with One Shot, except I use one of the small plastic storage boxes (shoe box size). Never had a stuck case.

 

[Scooter64]

I been using Hormandy one shot since it came out . only one stuck case 3006 because I was stingy with it. Had to buy the rcbs tool for being stingy. My bad

 

[jwp6114]

It's simple, OS lube... Use liberally, spray cases in a tray you can shake around while spraying.. had a stuck case with it but u have to coat the entire case with it...

I also like imp wax, but OS is quicker