Federal 210m failure

[akscott]

Went to the range last night with 20 reloads and out of those 20 I had 7 ftf. I didn't change a thing from the hundreds of rounds before this, came home pulled the bullets and re seated the primers and tryed to fire just the primer again to no avail. This is the first time I have had a problem with fgmm primers so I was wondering if anyone else has experienced any problems with them?
The one on the bottom fired the one on the top did not

 

[pawprint2]

I load a ton of 210's, as I sure you do also. I've never heard of it, but as I just started using a new sleeve-I'm concerned. It sure looks like you were hitting them hard enough. Do you have the lot #, I'd like to check my stash. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[akscott]

Yep lot# 2gn525

 

[ksthomas]

akscott,

You've got a gun, or reload problem; it's not the primers. Primers are one of the most stupidly reliable devices ever designed by man, and they're not terribly difficult to produce to a fairly high quality standard. Due to their nature, they get some pretty intense QC during production. As a result, truly "bad" primers are incredibly rare. I've encounter a grand total of about three bad primers, out of something in the neighborhood of four million rounds loaded. The odds of getting multiple genuinely bad primers out of the same box are way beyond astronomical. If you got this many misfires, it's something going on with headspace, a weak spring, mis-seated or otherwise incorrectly primer cases, or something else along those lines. Trust me on this, it isn't a primer problem. Keep looking, and you'll find a culprit in the system.

 

[Joey Dean]

Kevin,

I agree with you, but...

Both those primers in the picture look well hit. If that is a fair representation of what the other 6 looked like then there may be something fishy going on in Denmark. Did the tray or box look like it had possibly been exposed to a contaminant?

 

[ksthomas]

Kevin,

I agree with you, but...

Both those primers in the picture look well hit. If that is a fair representation of what the other 6 looked like then there may be something fishy going on in Denmark. Did the tray or box look like it had possibly been exposed to a contaminant?

The possibility of damaged primer IS an issue, and if there's evidence to support that, I'm on board. However, getting this number of truly bad primers from the same box, with the likelihood that they came from the factory that way . . . no, I can't buy that one. Fair question for the OP, though; is there any evidence of damage to the box? Moisture? Chemical or other contaminant exposure? As I said, you need to look deeper here, but there will be a cause for this other than simply "bad primers."

 

[High Binder]

7 out of 20 is unheard of. Smart money is on some other factor, like not cleaning off the lube off your cases prior to seating primers and the lube contaminating the primer or not letting your cases dry all the way before seating primers and the left over water killed the primers, etc.

The smart money says that, that many dud primers is due to something wrong in your process. It could be a bad lot of primers but that is so incredibly rare as to be all but completely ruled out as a factor.

 

[Dan Newberry]

I think QC with primers is a problem these days. Demand is so high, stuff is falling between the cracks.

I saw the first Federal primer fail Tuesday, during one of our day clinics. We've also had several CCI 200 failures, different rifles at different times.

I wish it weren't so... but it's happening.

The CCI's were .006" too shallow. Lot number D27S.

Here's a thread from my little podunk forum... CCI 200 primers, lot number D27S... problems in Handloading and OCW related topics... Forum

 

[akscott]

No damage to the box it has been sitting high and dry on my bench for a couple months, like I say this is the first time that I have had this problem. I do use a small amount of lube on the outside of the neck but I always whipe it off before putting it in the block for the next stage of my process. I was shooting federal brass that is probably close to the end of its life, but all the primers bottomed out level with the bottom of the case like normal. All the primer have good solid firing pin engagement, It's pretty warm up here but it's an extremely dry climate so I don't think moisture is an issue. So I guess ill just see what happens on the next go round.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Are you seating them below flush against the bottom of your primer pockets?

They look like they're backed out a bit in that one picture.

Chris

 

[Boogaloo]

I agree with Dan on this one. I have had the luxury of shooting quite regularly as of late, and to date, I have had (4) 210M primers fail to light (over 3 different range sessions), and (1) Winchester WSR fail (last Saturday).

I always pull the duds apart when I get back to the shop and investigate, and have yet to find ANYTHING to blame other than the damn things just failed to light. My supplies are kept in a box in my reloading room that because of the way the structure is built, stays in the low 70's even when it is 90+ degrees outside. ZERO moisture, ZERO possibility of contamination, and no other signs that I have done something to cause the issue(s).

All of the offending primers are from recent lots that were purchased within the last 5 months.

I think QC is slipping a little bit based on current demand just like Dan stated.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

I agree with Dan on this one. I have had the luxury of shooting quite regularly as of late, and to date, I have had (4) 210M primers fail to light (over 3 different range sessions), and (1) Winchester WSR fail (last Saturday).

I always pull the duds apart when I get back to the shop and investigate, and have yet to find ANYTHING to blame other than the damn things just failed to light. My supplies are kept in a box in my reloading room that because of the way the structure is built, stays in the low 70's even when it is 90+ degrees outside. ZERO moisture, ZERO possibility of contamination, and no other signs that I have done something to cause the issue(s).

All of the offending primers are from recent lots that were purchased within the last 5 months.

I think QC is slipping a little bit based on current demand just like Dan stated.

Not saying that you're wrong, but I've loaded 30,000+ rounds over 18 years with new primers, old primers, primers covering CCI, Remington, Federal and Winchester, bench rest and standard and I've never, ever had one NOT go bang via 20 different firearms, covering pistols, revolvers, bolt rifles, gas guns and whatnot.

CCI had a recall on some BR2s a few years back, so nothing's off the table, but primers are pretty consistent in my experience.

I'd be willing to bet that either the primers aren't being seated against the primer pocket's face, or there are some environmental issues at play.

Chris

 

[rg1911]

I've got a bunch of off-brand .30 Tokarev ammo and have had a number of ftf. *However* I've been working on the trigger pull and got the hammer spring too light. Primers looked like they had solid hits (especially after 3-4 attempts), but they didn't go off. So I, too, would suggest at least having the hammer/striker spring checked.

I did once buy some really old Federal SR primers and, out of 3000 or so, I did have 2 or 3 ftf in an M1 carbine. Of course, the primers could have been stored in a sauna for all I know.

Richard

 

[BuzzBoss915]

First of all, who knows, at this point?

But. seven out of twenty bad primers is astronomical, seems to me? I admit, my volume is not what some here would have since I'm basically a live target shooter, and almost exclusively a handloader. That's 45 years, never seen a bad primer.

Anyway, the easiest explain is over sizing, firing pin bumping the case forward in a chamber made slightly sloppy, and assuming a rimless cartridge, looks like a plain vanilla 308? Just a WAG. BB