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Federal Gold Medal Match 205m

Jordanwickham

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
May 3, 2020
278
106
Southwest VA
So I have a concern of sorts. Yesterday I was doing some velocity checks on some loads for 6.5 CM.

Alpha Brass 1x
205m primer
H4350 ( 42-42.4 )
140 ELD-M

The reason for the velocity check was to see where my 1x fired was in relation to virgin brass. Most of the sets followed a fairly consistent baseline that I'm used to seeing, right around 4 SD and 10 ES. Two of the sets threw what I felt was an oddly low velocity.

42.1 grains 42.4 grains
2761 2767
2748 2780
2765 2785
2766 2778
2759 2769

I would shoot one, wait a minute shoot another so it was fairly controlled barrel / chamber temp. Between strings I would let the barrel cool to relatively ambient temp to the touch. The 42.4 lowball I could feasibly write off as cold bore, it actually didn't catch my eye as off til I was looking at the data to do this post. The 42.1 I can't call a cold shot.

So now I'm done with the criteria part. Today I was on high alert while doing some more loading. Been working through some concentricity issues. While I was priming my cases I noticed that some 5/100 of my FGMM 205M primers have an AR stamp on the cup. Now I know that Federal makes an AR specific primer. I've never bought any so I can't compare hence why Im writing this post. Am I drunk or did my 205M primers somehow get AR primers mixed in with them in packaging? Seeing as consistency is the name of the game seems odd Federal would stamp 1/20th of their primers. This was the last box in a 1000 cube so I would have to assume the whole lot was like that. I have another 1000 cube of the same lot. Not particularly wanting to look through 1000 primers to see if they are all like this when I can just check when I'm priming.

I was noticing an occasional flyer that hit not close to where it should have. The kind that when you see it impact makes you say wtf was that. This lead me to find the concentricity issue which was being caused by my sizing die.

Anyway pretty long winded but any input is appreciated.
 
Lots of guys will blame the die alignment and even the seating die for concentricity issues, but in my experience it has more to do with how much neck sizing is being done.

Fired cases never have runout, just resized cases right...

Bottom line is the less you size the neck, the less chance there is to induce run out.

Minimum neck clearance in the chamber and turned necks will ensure lowest runout and contribute to lowest velocity spreads.

So to that point, I would be interested in 4 dimensions...
1) What is the neck diameter of fired brass?
2) What is the neck diameter of brass before seating a bullet?
3) What is the neck diameter with a bullet seated?

4) How consistent is the neck wall thickness? Min max in different places around the neck over 10 rounds or so.

So I would ask about your mind set? If you are tactical minded, you are probably not likely to want to neck turn and probably not likely to want a tight neck chamber. I would not advocate one without the other BTW.

If accuracy is your ultimate goal, then you must concede that a tight neck and turned brass will ensure best accuracy.

The question is really how far and what concessions are you willing to make to get there?
 
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Lots of guys will blame the die alignment for concentricity issues, but in my experience it has more to do with how much neck sizing is being done.

Bottom line is the less you size the neck, the less chance the is to induce run out.

Minimum neck clearance in the chamber and even turned necks will ensure low runout.

So to that point, I would be interested in 3 dimensions...
1) What is the neck diameter of fired brass?
2) What is the neck diameter of brass before seating a bullet?
3) What is the neck diameter with a bullet seated?
Yeah my issue wasn't die alignment really. It was I have a neck chamber of .2955 and running a .288 bushing. My thoughts are that the bushing was causing too much stress sizing that much and knocking it out of whack. Though this is not really the basis of my original post I'll indulge though that issue is already fixed.

Fired Neck OD- .2955
Sized Neck OD- .2885
Seated Neck OD- .290
.2885 on my turned brass which was never in contact with that bushing die. (Post finding the issue)
The concetricity issue didn't happen on my Lapua brass. It came up when I switched to Alpha Brass.
Old process was Type S Bushing die, Mandrel, plus Redding comp seater. Anywhere between .000-.008 TIR.
New process Lee Collet die, Redding body die, Mandrel, L.E. Wilson chamber die. .000-.0015 TIR.

So I feel pretty confident in my findings and my fix. Did I need to drop $350 to fix it, not really but I would have ended up with that arbor press and die anyways so not big deal.
 
How da fuck do you get 15 thou runout with a lee collet neck die?
You either aren't solid on reading or decimals, which is it? I'm guessing both. Since your first comment was to say I'm the idiot grabbing the wrong primers even though I mentioned that I've never bought AR primers and that these were found in a 100 box that came out of a 1000 block. You second comment shows your inability to read decimals seeing as .0015 is 1.5k.
 
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You either aren't solid on reading or decimals, which is it? I'm guessing both. Since your first comment was to say I'm the idiot grabbing the wrong primers even though I mentioned that I've never bought AR primers and that these were found in a 100 box that came out of a 1000 block. You second comment shows your inability to read decimals seeing as .0015 is 1.5k.

I never said you were at fault. Stop reading into things. And you go straight to insults. Dick!
 
Lots of guys will blame the die alignment and even the seating die for concentricity issues, but in my experience it has more to do with how much neck sizing is being done.

Fired cases never have runout, just resized cases right...

Bottom line is the less you size the neck, the less chance there is to induce run out.

Minimum neck clearance in the chamber and turned necks will ensure lowest runout and contribute to lowest velocity spreads.

So to that point, I would be interested in 4 dimensions...
1) What is the neck diameter of fired brass?
2) What is the neck diameter of brass before seating a bullet?
3) What is the neck diameter with a bullet seated?

4) How consistent is the neck wall thickness? Min max in different places around the neck over 10 rounds or so.

So I would ask about your mind set? If you are tactical minded, you are probably not likely to want to neck turn and probably not likely to want a tight neck chamber. I would not advocate one without the other BTW.

If accuracy is your ultimate goal, then you must concede that a tight neck and turned brass will ensure best accuracy.

The question is really how far and what concessions are you willing to make to get there?
Didn't see the other half of your post for some reason. So as far as neck wall thickness consistency, the brass was within a .0005 tolerance measured with a RCBS tube style micrometer. It's the best I have for the job. The overall thickness was .013-.0135.

And to your last question I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm just looking for the best I can get with what I have currently.

The bulk of my shooting has come in the last year.
I've shot since I was a kid but sporadically.

All of my reloading has been in the last year so still alot to learn.
 
It’s ok, I’ve seen it before an have been a victim of it locally. They have some weirdos working in gun stores.
Man that sucks. I'm pretty sure these two came from Midway but I'm not sure I got 2 1k bricks from Midway and 2 1k bricks from Cabela's or maybe Sportsmen's. I just looked through the last 100 pack out of this 1k brick and didn't find any that had the AR stamp on them. I have another 1k brick from the same lot I'll have to keep an eye on. I'm hoping it was a one off thing. Do you have any experience with the AR primers that Federal makes? Do they stamp them or am I way off? That's the first thing that came to mind when I saw the stamp.
 

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Mine are stamped “AR”

View attachment 7384033
Thanks, that's what I figured but wasn't sure since I hadn't seen the primers before. That's pretty concerning that they got in there however they did. Especially if someone would do that on purpose. Luckily the primers seem to give a lower velocity, or those significant low balls were the result of my sub par reloading ability, certainly not out of the realm of possibility.