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Fertilizer and GMO dumpster fire
- Thread starter lariat
- Start date
Organic is terrible for the environment
Lmao at ppl saying “muh topsoil” in one breath and “organic is the best way”
The depth of ignorance and arrogance in this thread is astounding
Glad I have piles of band aids everywhere
Low input farming ? That’s for either arid regions with no irrigation or the local half asser that every community has.
Lmao at ppl saying “muh topsoil” in one breath and “organic is the best way”
The depth of ignorance and arrogance in this thread is astounding
Glad I have piles of band aids everywhere
Low input farming ? That’s for either arid regions with no irrigation or the local half asser that every community has.
Ignorant no shit, now you are just making up stuff, oh wait, thats how you started. Never mind the trend continues, miss the point make inane and irrelevant blanket statements about stuff you failed to understand.
"Organic"
As though its a single model or approach. Your simplistic view only supports my hypotheses of your ignorance on the subject.
"Organic"
As though its a single model or approach. Your simplistic view only supports my hypotheses of your ignorance on the subject.
Organic"
Yeah ?
Do organic with out a combo of plastic strips and bare dirt and lots of tillage and cultivation? What’s that lead to ?
Thar be cover crop crimping doesn’t work either.
Organic is a joke u less you are ok with yields , weeds and erosion equivalent to 1950s and earlier
The biggest factor is a couple generations of lazy or ignorant parents that caved to their kids whining that they wanted chicken fucking nuggets or a happy meal.
Parents not wanting to deal with the whining or simply too lazy, tired, ignorant or...whatever to cook a healthy meal. This has lead to all kinds of nutrient/mineral deficiencies and who knows what ills after 2-3 generations of eating shit. This behavior is generational and is passed down like gmas fine china.
Parents not wanting to deal with the whining or simply too lazy, tired, ignorant or...whatever to cook a healthy meal. This has lead to all kinds of nutrient/mineral deficiencies and who knows what ills after 2-3 generations of eating shit. This behavior is generational and is passed down like gmas fine china.
Yes! All crops have been genetically modified at some point, do think we are just now discovering new types of wheat that can yield 100 bpa?
U might wanna research that on wheat tad more bro…just saying 
- Perhaps I was unclear. I meant "commercial-scale organic farming" is a marketing hoax because more pesticide is actually used in the process compared to conventional ag. Bt crops produce cry proteins that confer pest resistance so minimal insecticides are needed, and Ht genes increase herbicide effectiveness/specificity so less is needed. These are some of the factors that increase productivity and reduce costs in conventional ag.
- Small-scale home-grown organic farming is 100% better than anything you can buy in the grocery store if done correctly, because produce is harvested ripe and consumed fresh, something impossible at a commercial scale.
- Your experience makes sense but food processing is likely the culprit, not organic vs. non-organic. Extensively processed food (fast/canned) lose most of their nutritional value and should be avoided if possible. Always eat fresh and unprocessed.
- Different crop variants (genetics) have a larger play in nutritional value/flavor compared to the way they are grown. For the same crop variant, growing them organically or by conventional means should produce similar nutritional value/flavor.
- Organic certification is a hoax but a necessary evil. It allows small farmers to sell at a premium and compete with larger commercial players.
We buy our beef at a local lot. You can go to the lot and see what they are feeding the cows. And how the cows are treated. The meat is better tasting than any other beef I've tried.
Facebook, the same as yours.
Maybe if you ever quit sucking the government/corporate dick and worked a day in your life you would know.
The real fertilizer and gmo dumpster fire is the fact that both suppliers are almost monopolies.......but that is the American way these days.
I have this book from my grandfather. Very eye opening and data centric. Some of it is really dated but they did have some good info that makes you think. A lot.
Attachments
Bingo! Four companies (Bayer, BASF, ChemChina, and Corteva) control more than 60% of the global seed supply and crop genetics. Only one of the four is a US company though (Corteva).
Corporate consolidation is a bad bad thing for the average Joe.
I don’t disagree with you. I’m sure there are tons of people smarter than myself on these topics. I’ve got nothing against using fertilizers. I do wonder about other products though. I wonder how many agronomists regurgitate data from the manufacturers vs conducting independent studies not funded/influenced/coerced by big ag. Especially since agronomists are hired by “big boys” with 4K+ acres. I wonder if regulatory agencies possess the utmost integrity and cannot be influenced by ag lobbyists. I’m sure farmers have good intent on feeding the world in the most efficient manner, which is a noble endeavor. I just wonder if farmers are being fed lies about the products they use. Kinda like how big pharma and .gov seem to be feeding the world lies about this vax bullshit.
In the meantime, while I’m pondering life’s great mysteries... I’ll go ahead and make sure my kids are pest-free with a little dose of DDT prior to letting them play in the fake snow made out of 100% asbestos.
This whole thread makes my head hurt…that or it’s the whiskey…holy shit where’s the Tylenol…am I buying guns or fertilizer I forget?
Nearly that many people have lined up for their "shot" over the last year and a half, some even went back for seconds, thirds, and fourths..... ...tick... tock...
GMO means it has had genes spliced from another organism.
You're on Facebook eh? Sucking ole Zuckies dick.
So no source, you were just making stuff up, check. Thats what i thought.
Less yield requires more acres
And more resources more fuel more cultivation more plastic
More acres requiring more resources assumes their input costs are the same. Much less fuel is required when the cultivation plan doesn't involve nearly as much if any tillage. Again a blanket statement that doest really apply. It also ignores the resource cost of mining and drilling, then making the chemical fertilizer and shipping it here from China.
What do they use the extra plastic for?
What do they use the extra plastic for?
Damn you are off base on this one.
More acres = more money, more resources = more money, those are absolute input costs. Less tillage for organics; you haven't been on a farm lately have you? Farmers don't till as that breaks the soil barrier and releases moisture, ask a modern farmer what a plow is and they don't know and they sure don't use one.
Organic; cover crop = more money, till in cover crop = more money, more plants due to lower yield = more money, the list just goes on.
I'm not against organic, self sustained farming in any way shape or form but you at least have to look at the newest farming methods to do any type of comparison between organic and corporate farming. This isn't the 1920's leading us to the dust bowl, things have changed and it is for the better on every level.
I'm not even a farmer and know this much.
Dersniper says tilling in manure and lime is good for the soil.
Most of the winter wheat here has been plowed at least twice since fall. Basically after each wind storm blows the dirt off the seeds they till them in again.
Yields
1. You don't have to have to make the same yield to stay in business if your input costs are less. Money made is input vs return.
2. There are people who are claiming to be making he same yields now as they were while using much less fertilizer.
3. I didn't say anything about organic. I said soil disturbance causes the need for more inputs.
I guess I should have taken some pictures of the dust storms on Saturday. Luckily some moister made them not quite as bad as the ones a few weeks prior. I should probably run around and take pictures of most of the grass land also. There are way more cows this year than any time in i can remember. And the grass is already bad years and rout and overgrazing. We will see about your dustbowl. I would bet Biden is going to do the same as Obama, and pay people here in the dearest to break open grass, and plant corn that will never yield due to lack of water.
Most of the winter wheat here has been plowed at least twice since fall. Basically after each wind storm blows the dirt off the seeds they till them in again.
Yields
1. You don't have to have to make the same yield to stay in business if your input costs are less. Money made is input vs return.
2. There are people who are claiming to be making he same yields now as they were while using much less fertilizer.
3. I didn't say anything about organic. I said soil disturbance causes the need for more inputs.
I guess I should have taken some pictures of the dust storms on Saturday. Luckily some moister made them not quite as bad as the ones a few weeks prior. I should probably run around and take pictures of most of the grass land also. There are way more cows this year than any time in i can remember. And the grass is already bad years and rout and overgrazing. We will see about your dustbowl. I would bet Biden is going to do the same as Obama, and pay people here in the dearest to break open grass, and plant corn that will never yield due to lack of water.
He has nothing constructive to say, just slinging shit, do yourself a favor and ignore stupidity.
Bayer bought Monsanto so a large share of their seed market is still US controlled.
Every farmer I know is minimum till. Nobody spends money cultivating for no reason. I agree with previous poster, times have changed for the better farming practices are way better than even a few years ago. In our area no till doesn’t work, because of soil type, season length. The few farmers that are doing it have caused problems in the area with weeds becoming resistant to certain sprays. The organic farms I have seen have been weed nightmares and are going to produce a tenth as much as a conventional farm.
When all the sheep are dead at the bottom of the ravine, run off the side of the mountain to their death, I’m going to be mad at the sheep herder and sad for the sheep. Not the other way around.
Doing organic without tilling can increases yields, and decreases top soil loss, same as for a conventional model.
Erosion and weeds.
Stop tilling and planting the weed seeds you are adding with your manure. Wind-row and compost that shit to reduce weed seeds and pathogens. Less nitrate will make the weed seed less likely to germinate and less vigorous when they do. Thus reducing inputs. Comparing where "organic" is today to the 1950s is retarded. Crimping works well, depending on what you are trying to terminate. Some covers aren't going to terminate well crimping. For instance a field of hairy vetch isn't going to be terminated crimping without spray. Add winter rye and field pees some brassicas and clovers, and hairy vetch terminates better when crimping.
Again you are trying to oversimplify. The same as a conventional farm, everyone is not doing the same thing. Every one does not have the same problems and resource concerns. Tilled organic has the same compaction, lack of soil aggregation and erosion problems as conventional.
Its no tillers fault weeds are spray resistant, not the last 75 years of spraying weeds. Ok....
I think some of you guys are smoking the weeds.
Ok how many in this thread are actually involved in large scale production agriculture and how many have a friggin garden?! Hands?!
In my area yes they only control weeds by spraying them. Common sense that tillage kills weeds.
Idk about all that but I agree on less tillage
Please cite
Lol you are so far off base it isn’t funny.
God damn you are fun of assumptions. Actually I am not, and I literally know the guy who does it, grew up working for the guy who does it, plowed fields for him in the winter for that reason. Now are the other guys doing it for a different reason, I couldn't tell you. So you tell me what are the other guys doing it for? Just to brown out the corner of the state every time the wind blows....
Literally last time we had this conversation you said.
"Tilling in manure and lime does not improve the soil?"
To which i responded "No, it does not."
To which you responded to me something about smoking crack or some other stupid shit. Sounds like you were actually listening, or just actually went out and did some research and found out how wrong you were.
Literally last time we had this conversation you said.
"Tilling in manure and lime does not improve the soil?"
To which i responded "No, it does not."
To which you responded to me something about smoking crack or some other stupid shit. Sounds like you were actually listening, or just actually went out and did some research and found out how wrong you were.
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Yes but so will a rain. I till once in the spring to apply nitrogen and kill any weeds that are there. Tillage will kill larger weeds that spray may not. If spray doesn’t kill plant completely that will end up in resistance. Then I seed, this gives crop to head start. Crop then can get large enough to shade ground to prevent more weeds from growing. One application of weed spray and I’m good for season.
Was bored read this whole thread I think I am dumber. 1st hats off to all the commercial farmers/ranchers you literally feed the world. 2nd of course home grown fruit, vegetables, and meat is going to be better when done right, you have full control of everything and are not worried about profit get to harvest/slaughter at perfect times. ( on the slaughter, just make sure you have an honest outfit or who knows what you really get back) Third Commercial organic farming? Really, seen Bigfoot lately, Especially if imported. Now here is a question if I shoot a whitetail in a wheat field is it organic? Then preparation, unless you process and prepare all your own food who knows what you are getting. But what do I know I grew up when we played in the dirt, ate school lunches and tv dinners. Organic was pulling an apple off the tree and eating around the worm. I need to drive to Costco today a hot dog sure sounds good. I try to thank God every day that I live in a place where this is even a debate not some shithole where you can’t even drink the water.
No weeds there I’m sure. That crimpable cover crop doesn’t tie up any valuable N either
L o l
No-till agriculture increases crop yields, environmental gains over long haul
A study in Global Change Biology clearly demonstrates significant benefit to the environment and to crop yield for farmers practicing no-till versus tilled…
www.nsf.gov
Cultivating anything is about mitigating the problems that arise from your model. I don't care what kind of system you are in.
Removal of weeds was the first step. Not putting them back as I reduced the seed bank was step two. Not putting the soil back to the first succession every year by tilling is a great way to reduce their vigor and germination also. Weeds like disturbance and nitrate nitrogen. Also Bermuda grass is my main weed so tilling makes it worse like other plants that grow from rhizomes.
The cover puts in N actually, you know nitrogen fixers. Of course it will use it if you don't terminate it at the right time. Legumes use their nitrogen when making seeds. Their ground up seeds make a decent nitrogen amendment. Its much more costly than something waste stream like manure or blood meal.
If you want more actual information on "organic" crops OMRI is one source:
www.omri.org
They approve materials for "organic" farming but they are also a for profit organization. You pay so you can play.
Welcome to the Organic Materials Review Institute
OMRI supports organic integrity by developing clear information and guidance about materials, so that producers know which products are appropriate for organic operations. OMRI is a 501(c)(3) nonprofi
They approve materials for "organic" farming but they are also a for profit organization. You pay so you can play.
Tell me more about legumes / nitrogen fixers that you can terminate by crimping
I would like to see your figures on processing, here $50 kill fee minimum, plus $.90-99 for processing, where is the waste figured in at, most beeves only process out way less than most think, typical hanging weight is about 60-65% hanging weight, then you debone and leave some fat on the floor and you are doing it for $1.07? No way.
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