Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions?
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Rifle Scopes FFP.....is it worth money
- Thread starter bobo
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Re: FFP.....is it worth money
I don't know about the particular models you list, but for me, I like the versatility of being able to use my mil reticule for its intended use throughout its magnification range that FFP gives me.
I don't know about the particular models you list, but for me, I like the versatility of being able to use my mil reticule for its intended use throughout its magnification range that FFP gives me.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neither, Vortex PST FFP and more ammo. Just my opinion
</div></div>
i am looking into a 1-4x, i was looking at the leupolds until i found out the difference between MOA and MIL.
so now, i think i like the vortex pst series, are all the PST series FFP?
this one to be exact - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/462883/...isting-_-462883
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neither, Vortex PST FFP and more ammo. Just my opinion
i am looking into a 1-4x, i was looking at the leupolds until i found out the difference between MOA and MIL.
so now, i think i like the vortex pst series, are all the PST series FFP?
this one to be exact - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/462883/...isting-_-462883
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FFP.....is it worth money? </div></div>
IMO, if u are going to drop $500+ on a scope, why not get the good shit the first time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FFP.....is it worth money? </div></div>
IMO, if u are going to drop $500+ on a scope, why not get the good shit the first time?
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
Definitely go with the FFP if you have the coin. Much easier to make adjustments of the fly.
Definitely go with the FFP if you have the coin. Much easier to make adjustments of the fly.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions? </div></div> I think you need to decide what you are going to use the optic for and do you really need FFP or can you work with SFP. If you are just shooting at your local range and you know all distances then what does FFP bring to you? If you are going to go to matches with unknown distances and you need to measure with your retcile at various magnifications then by all means get a FFP. This all comes down to how you see yourself working with the optic. I have FFP optics but I like to use them for UKD to determine my distances so I use the FFP capability. But, I have also used SFP for the same thing in the past and was not that much of a disadvantage it just takes practice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions? </div></div> I think you need to decide what you are going to use the optic for and do you really need FFP or can you work with SFP. If you are just shooting at your local range and you know all distances then what does FFP bring to you? If you are going to go to matches with unknown distances and you need to measure with your retcile at various magnifications then by all means get a FFP. This all comes down to how you see yourself working with the optic. I have FFP optics but I like to use them for UKD to determine my distances so I use the FFP capability. But, I have also used SFP for the same thing in the past and was not that much of a disadvantage it just takes practice.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions? </div></div> I think you need to decide what you are going to use the optic for and do you really need FFP or can you work with SFP. If you are just shooting at your local range and you know all distances then what does FFP bring to you? If you are going to go to matches with unknown distances and you need to measure with your retcile at various magnifications then by all means get a FFP. This all comes down to how you see yourself working with the optic. I have FFP optics but I like to use them for UKD to determine my distances so I use the FFP capability. But, I have also used SFP for the same thing in the past and was not that much of a disadvantage it just takes practice. </div></div>
exactly
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions? </div></div> I think you need to decide what you are going to use the optic for and do you really need FFP or can you work with SFP. If you are just shooting at your local range and you know all distances then what does FFP bring to you? If you are going to go to matches with unknown distances and you need to measure with your retcile at various magnifications then by all means get a FFP. This all comes down to how you see yourself working with the optic. I have FFP optics but I like to use them for UKD to determine my distances so I use the FFP capability. But, I have also used SFP for the same thing in the past and was not that much of a disadvantage it just takes practice. </div></div>
exactly
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
I'm going back and forth myself. I have a magazine with an article on the snipershides cup back in '06 or '07 "the one David Tubb shot at". Anyways Terry Cross won that with a 5.5-22x56 NightForce, with standard turrets "not high speed", and SFP with open mil-dots and elevation and wind in .25moa. So it can be done...just makes you work harder for it untill SFP isn't hard at all. And really its not with NightForces's MOA reticles. The scope I want is a 3.5-15x50 w/highspeed .250moa turrets and a zerostop with there new MOAR reticle. I plan "and its good to have a plan" to use it for everything from hunting, Matches, F-class, to just shooting stuff to shoot stuff.
I'm going back and forth myself. I have a magazine with an article on the snipershides cup back in '06 or '07 "the one David Tubb shot at". Anyways Terry Cross won that with a 5.5-22x56 NightForce, with standard turrets "not high speed", and SFP with open mil-dots and elevation and wind in .25moa. So it can be done...just makes you work harder for it untill SFP isn't hard at all. And really its not with NightForces's MOA reticles. The scope I want is a 3.5-15x50 w/highspeed .250moa turrets and a zerostop with there new MOAR reticle. I plan "and its good to have a plan" to use it for everything from hunting, Matches, F-class, to just shooting stuff to shoot stuff.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
FFP will not make you a better shot
SFP scopes have finer reticules thru out zoom range
FFP is useful for ranging, thou a lazer is quicker its a nice backup
FFP has as many disadvantages as it does advantages
Do you really need FFP or is $$ better spent on higher qual SFP scope
FFP will not make you a better shot
SFP scopes have finer reticules thru out zoom range
FFP is useful for ranging, thou a lazer is quicker its a nice backup
FFP has as many disadvantages as it does advantages
Do you really need FFP or is $$ better spent on higher qual SFP scope
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
I'm a SFP guy myself. I also like a fair amount of magnification and a fine reticle. I haven't found a FFP scope yet where the reticle doesn't get too fat on target for me at higher magnification.
You can range with a SFP just fine. It's been done for years. I would also venture to say, most people who had to have a FFP scope on their rifle don't even range with it anyway.
If you feel your need for an optic is solely for ranging objects at any given magnification, then by all means get a FFP scope. If I was in the military, I would probably lean towards a FFP scope as speed of ranging a target is far more crucial than the majority of members on the hide using their scopes for shooting at their range or in various competitions. If ranging isn't your primary function, save a few hundred dollars and get a scope with a reticle that doesn't cover a barn on high magnification.
This is just my opinion and it is just that, an opinion. You will find others who swear by a FFP and they don't have any problem with an enlarged reticle. The best thing you can do is decide what you need the scope to do for you. Then go out and look through a few before investing a large chunk of change on an optic you may in the end decide you didn't really need.
Good luck,
K9-
I'm a SFP guy myself. I also like a fair amount of magnification and a fine reticle. I haven't found a FFP scope yet where the reticle doesn't get too fat on target for me at higher magnification.
You can range with a SFP just fine. It's been done for years. I would also venture to say, most people who had to have a FFP scope on their rifle don't even range with it anyway.
If you feel your need for an optic is solely for ranging objects at any given magnification, then by all means get a FFP scope. If I was in the military, I would probably lean towards a FFP scope as speed of ranging a target is far more crucial than the majority of members on the hide using their scopes for shooting at their range or in various competitions. If ranging isn't your primary function, save a few hundred dollars and get a scope with a reticle that doesn't cover a barn on high magnification.
This is just my opinion and it is just that, an opinion. You will find others who swear by a FFP and they don't have any problem with an enlarged reticle. The best thing you can do is decide what you need the scope to do for you. Then go out and look through a few before investing a large chunk of change on an optic you may in the end decide you didn't really need.
Good luck,
K9-
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Definitely go with the FFP if you have the coin. Much easier to make adjustments of the fly.</div></div>
This is why I own an FFP. You can easily make changes no matter magnification, etc.
After owning FFPs, I do not think I could ever go back.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Definitely go with the FFP if you have the coin. Much easier to make adjustments of the fly.</div></div>
This is why I own an FFP. You can easily make changes no matter magnification, etc.
After owning FFPs, I do not think I could ever go back.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cactusbrew</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Definitely go with the FFP if you have the coin. Much easier to make adjustments of the fly.</div></div>
This is why I own an FFP. You can easily make changes no matter magnification, etc.
After owning FFPs, I do not think I could ever go back. </div></div>
Can you expound upon what "changes" you are talking about?
K9-
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cactusbrew</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Definitely go with the FFP if you have the coin. Much easier to make adjustments of the fly.</div></div>
This is why I own an FFP. You can easily make changes no matter magnification, etc.
After owning FFPs, I do not think I could ever go back. </div></div>
Can you expound upon what "changes" you are talking about?
K9-
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions? </div></div>
What is the primary use of the rifle?
IMO, hunting while anticipating close in shots and primarily dialing. SFP
Tactical matches, holdovers, holdoffs, leading, ranging on any mag and all around use. FFP
FFP to me is more versatile, less thinking.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tryin to decide between leupold lr/t with illuminated reticle or the er/t with ffp. Any suggestions? </div></div>
What is the primary use of the rifle?
IMO, hunting while anticipating close in shots and primarily dialing. SFP
Tactical matches, holdovers, holdoffs, leading, ranging on any mag and all around use. FFP
FFP to me is more versatile, less thinking.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
Sometimes it is difficult to aquire the target. Dialing down the magnification will usually help. When you dial down the magnification and have FFP, holding for windage or movers will be the same for any magnication.
That is the advantage of FFP.
The disadvantage of FFP is there is always some compromise in reticle thickness. Make it thick enough for low magnification and it is a bit too thick for maximum magnification and vice versa.
If you hold for windage or movers, FFP is probably the way to go.
If you want the ideal reticle size for every magnification, the second focal plane holds the advantage.
Sometimes it is difficult to aquire the target. Dialing down the magnification will usually help. When you dial down the magnification and have FFP, holding for windage or movers will be the same for any magnication.
That is the advantage of FFP.
The disadvantage of FFP is there is always some compromise in reticle thickness. Make it thick enough for low magnification and it is a bit too thick for maximum magnification and vice versa.
If you hold for windage or movers, FFP is probably the way to go.
If you want the ideal reticle size for every magnification, the second focal plane holds the advantage.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
Tactical = FFP
Benchrest = SFP
Leupold = Wishing you would have spent all that money you wasted on a name for a better scope.
Tactical = FFP
Benchrest = SFP
Leupold = Wishing you would have spent all that money you wasted on a name for a better scope.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
As previous posts mention it depends on what kind of shooting you plan on doing. For the type of shooting I do - I wouldn't buy a FFP scope even if they were cheaper than SFP scopes. I like extremely fine reticles at very high magnifications.
As previous posts mention it depends on what kind of shooting you plan on doing. For the type of shooting I do - I wouldn't buy a FFP scope even if they were cheaper than SFP scopes. I like extremely fine reticles at very high magnifications.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
Usually the ones that knock the FFP are people that are not using or familar with them , as once you do try them , you are usually Hooked .
Later Chris
Usually the ones that knock the FFP are people that are not using or familar with them , as once you do try them , you are usually Hooked .
Later Chris
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tactical = FFP
Benchrest = SFP
Leupold = Wishing you would have spent all that money you wasted on a name for a better scope. </div></div>
is the vortex viper pst 1-4x a better scope than the leupolds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tactical = FFP
Benchrest = SFP
Leupold = Wishing you would have spent all that money you wasted on a name for a better scope. </div></div>
is the vortex viper pst 1-4x a better scope than the leupolds?
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amedeo1227</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tactical = FFP
Benchrest = SFP
Leupold = Wishing you would have spent all that money you wasted on a name for a better scope. </div></div>
is the vortex viper pst 1-4x a better scope than the leupolds? </div></div>Their are lots of Leupolds. Some are better then others. I just think that they are overpriced. They are still living off their name. Vortex is a great company and you get what you pay for. Unless you buy a crossfire(Chinese). I had one of those and it sucked, but they let me send it in and put the money towards a PST. The PST I had was well made. I think you would do well to get one. Scott@LibertyOptics will probably same you a little money if you call him and ask him for his lowest price.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amedeo1227</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tactical = FFP
Benchrest = SFP
Leupold = Wishing you would have spent all that money you wasted on a name for a better scope. </div></div>
is the vortex viper pst 1-4x a better scope than the leupolds? </div></div>Their are lots of Leupolds. Some are better then others. I just think that they are overpriced. They are still living off their name. Vortex is a great company and you get what you pay for. Unless you buy a crossfire(Chinese). I had one of those and it sucked, but they let me send it in and put the money towards a PST. The PST I had was well made. I think you would do well to get one. Scott@LibertyOptics will probably same you a little money if you call him and ask him for his lowest price.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
[/quote] I think you would do well to get one. Scott@LibertyOptics will probably same you a little money if you call him and ask him for his lowest price. [/quote]
thanks for the tip
[/quote] I think you would do well to get one. Scott@LibertyOptics will probably same you a little money if you call him and ask him for his lowest price. [/quote]
thanks for the tip
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
Nightforce...
Just sayin'
Pros and cons on FFP vs SFP, depends on you and your needs.
I love both the 5.5x22 and 3.5-15x50 F1.
That's what I would do, but that's just me bud.
Regards
Nightforce...
Just sayin'
Pros and cons on FFP vs SFP, depends on you and your needs.
I love both the 5.5x22 and 3.5-15x50 F1.
That's what I would do, but that's just me bud.
Regards
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
ive had tons of scopes... probably not as many as some on here. There are some real glass whores on this site.
My two cents though, In the lower power catagory FFP is not worth it. Im talking anywhere up to 10x around 14x+ it is really nice to have.
you have to understand there is a usable range for FFP in scopes for me it starts around 8x... but thats subjective.
Probably different for everyone.
Also if yur gonna do FFP dont do leupy, they suck. 4-16 PST is way better in my opinion than any of Leupys FFP offerings aside from thier PSR submission scope.
ive had tons of scopes... probably not as many as some on here. There are some real glass whores on this site.
My two cents though, In the lower power catagory FFP is not worth it. Im talking anywhere up to 10x around 14x+ it is really nice to have.
you have to understand there is a usable range for FFP in scopes for me it starts around 8x... but thats subjective.
Probably different for everyone.
Also if yur gonna do FFP dont do leupy, they suck. 4-16 PST is way better in my opinion than any of Leupys FFP offerings aside from thier PSR submission scope.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
FFP is where it's at. Spend the money and get something decent the first time. my personal preference is Valdada IOR. Great glass great reticle. MP8. I run a 2.5-10x42 and its great from 50 yards to 1100.
FFP is where it's at. Spend the money and get something decent the first time. my personal preference is Valdada IOR. Great glass great reticle. MP8. I run a 2.5-10x42 and its great from 50 yards to 1100.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
like it was mentioned earlier, what is your price range and your intended use?
there are a plethora of optics and reticles available, and more coming every few months.
give us your limits/restrictions then look at the options. what are your top 4 scopes you are looking at then ask for opinions.
like it was mentioned earlier, what is your price range and your intended use?
there are a plethora of optics and reticles available, and more coming every few months.
give us your limits/restrictions then look at the options. what are your top 4 scopes you are looking at then ask for opinions.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
thx for all info. I hardly ever take my scope off of max power. if thats the case, will the FFP benefit me?
Does the leupold SFP range at max power?
Am I missing something by leaving on max power all time. I simply like to see what I'm shooting at.
thx for all info. I hardly ever take my scope off of max power. if thats the case, will the FFP benefit me?
Does the leupold SFP range at max power?
Am I missing something by leaving on max power all time. I simply like to see what I'm shooting at.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thx for all info. I hardly ever take my scope off of max power. if thats the case, will the FFP benefit me?
Does the leupold SFP range at max power?
Am I missing something by leaving on max power all time. I simply like to see what I'm shooting at.
</div></div>If you're just target shooting at max power FFP is a disadvantage because it makes your reticle thicker.
Leupolds are not worth the money. I always had mine on max power too so I just got a fixed power IOR Valdada from Liberty Optics. The glass is much better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thx for all info. I hardly ever take my scope off of max power. if thats the case, will the FFP benefit me?
Does the leupold SFP range at max power?
Am I missing something by leaving on max power all time. I simply like to see what I'm shooting at.
</div></div>If you're just target shooting at max power FFP is a disadvantage because it makes your reticle thicker.
Leupolds are not worth the money. I always had mine on max power too so I just got a fixed power IOR Valdada from Liberty Optics. The glass is much better.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
Ditto armchair. If all you are doing is target shooting from a bench at known distances on max power a SFP scope will benefit you more. The finer reticle is better for that style of shooting.
Ditto armchair. If all you are doing is target shooting from a bench at known distances on max power a SFP scope will benefit you more. The finer reticle is better for that style of shooting.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
FFP isn't really necessary or even desirable if you are shooting at stationary targets. I also find I do my shooting on nice days at max power. I find the retical on my SS 5 - 20 to be way to thick at 20x at longer ranges. Its fine a 100 - 200 yards but after that it just starts being way to fat, and covers a lot of the target...
FFP isn't really necessary or even desirable if you are shooting at stationary targets. I also find I do my shooting on nice days at max power. I find the retical on my SS 5 - 20 to be way to thick at 20x at longer ranges. Its fine a 100 - 200 yards but after that it just starts being way to fat, and covers a lot of the target...
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
If possible find as many of your interested scopes to try in person. These are not a cheap investment so I certainly would not purchase blind folded. If possible see if you can find some dealers in your area that carries these scopes and try them in person. See the reticles with your own eyes all throughout the Maginification Range both FFP and SFP. Sometimes "Thickness" standards are different from shooter to shooter. It's your money so do some Hands on Research before you go either way. At least when you drop the coin on the Scope you'll know you've seen and explored BOTH Options.
If possible find as many of your interested scopes to try in person. These are not a cheap investment so I certainly would not purchase blind folded. If possible see if you can find some dealers in your area that carries these scopes and try them in person. See the reticles with your own eyes all throughout the Maginification Range both FFP and SFP. Sometimes "Thickness" standards are different from shooter to shooter. It's your money so do some Hands on Research before you go either way. At least when you drop the coin on the Scope you'll know you've seen and explored BOTH Options.
Re: FFP.....is it worth money
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thx for all info. I hardly ever take my scope off of max power. if thats the case, will the FFP benefit me?
Does the leupold SFP range at max power?
Am I missing something by leaving on max power all time. I simply like to see what I'm shooting at.
</div></div>
If you are moving from target to target, dialed up high all the time, your field of view is small and it can be difficult to find that next target (in a tactical style field match). If you are shooting a fixed paper target, SFP is great.
I won't buy another SFP optic personally, going to FFP has made holds, wind, dialing, ranging all work much more quickly and simply. But if I was primarily shooting at paper, or benchrest type work, I'd probably go SFP.
I wouldn't go leupy for either.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bobo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thx for all info. I hardly ever take my scope off of max power. if thats the case, will the FFP benefit me?
Does the leupold SFP range at max power?
Am I missing something by leaving on max power all time. I simply like to see what I'm shooting at.
</div></div>
If you are moving from target to target, dialed up high all the time, your field of view is small and it can be difficult to find that next target (in a tactical style field match). If you are shooting a fixed paper target, SFP is great.
I won't buy another SFP optic personally, going to FFP has made holds, wind, dialing, ranging all work much more quickly and simply. But if I was primarily shooting at paper, or benchrest type work, I'd probably go SFP.
I wouldn't go leupy for either.
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