FGMM 308 185 Berger Juggernaut Load measurements. *Updating as I can.

[1shot2kill]

I ordered 1 box Product# GM308BH185 and took a few measurements and thought i'd post my findings
#1-20 in order
COAL - Case Weight - Ogive to Base
2.790" 412.9 2.137"
2.778 411.4 2.134
2.783 412.0 2.134
2.783 411.5 2.134
2.786 412.1 2.134
2.785 412.6 2.135
2.785 412.6 2.134
2.789 412.2 2.138
2.781 412.0 2.132
2.777 412.5 2.131
2.781 412.8 2.131
2.783 411.7 2.136
2.782 411.8 2.130
2.793 411.4 2.136
2.790 412.0 2.134
2.790 411.2 2.134
2.785 412.0 2.134
2.790 411.7 2.139
2.784 411.5 2.135
2.783 412.0 2.134
High
2.793 412.9 2.139
Low
2.777 411.2 2.130
Average
2.785 412.0 2.134

I pulled 5 rounds to take measurements

Case weight in grains
1. 182.6
2. 182.0
3. 181.8
4. 181.6
5. 182.0
Powder weight. Looks like Alliant 2000-MR IMO
1. 45.3
2. 45.2
3. 45.2
4. 45.2
5. 45.2
Bullet base to Ogive
.69" all 5
Bullet OAL
1. 1.344
2. 1.341
3. 1.339
4. 1.341
5. 1.341

I hope this helps anyone researching this ammo.
Hopefully I will get a chance to shoot it in the next few weeks


Finally got a chance to shoot this stuff today.
MV
2539
2525
2539
2544
2525
2549
2534
2549
2525
2530
2530
2534
2544
2549
2534
Pulled and Re-seated bullets
2534
2520
2539
2539
2549
I did 4-5 shot groups all were under .75 moa with the 2nd right at .3"
FN SPR A5 20" barrel

10/23/19

CFE223 was mentioned and I do recall the powder having a slight musky smell(maybe that's just me) and I have 1lb on hand
re-prepped the cases
FL resized
dry tumbled in corn cob media
de-burr
VLD I.D. of neck
Primed with federal 210M primers
sorted cases by weight and picked 5 of them in the middle of the weight range
Primed weights
181.6
181.6
181.6
181.5
181.4
Used 45.2 grains of CFE 223
the bullets I have are 185 VLD hunting not the juggernauts but it's as close as I have on hand
I'll attempt to get these through a chrono this upcoming weekend.

 

[918v]

U rock!

 

[lte82]

My guess is it would be a powder from St Marks, like CFE 223 or something similar.

 

[John Glidewell]

My guess is it would be a powder from St Marks, like CFE 223 or something similar.

I just got the 2000MR and it looks just like the CFE223. I have read the 2000 is slightly slower than CFE, but I have no real data other than what has been written by folks using them.

 

[John Glidewell]

My friend had some and we shot it to 1085 out of his 16" AR. Ran great! Was consistent down range too. This is helpful as we discussed using the 185s to hand load. I just received 2 pounds of 2000MR and a few hundred 185s. This will be fun.

 

[lte82]

I just got the 2000MR and it looks just like the CFE223. I have read the 2000 is slightly slower than CFE, but I have no real data other than what has been written by folks using them.

Yea 2000mr is a bit slower. I used around 47 gr with 175-185s. CFE needed a grain or so less for the same velocity.

 

[John Glidewell]

@lte82 did you see any performance difference in accuracy, ES #s, and final velocities? One run better than the other?

 

[lte82]

I never gave CFE a fair shake, used only about a pound of it, but ran through 20+ pounds of 2000mr. Good powder, but I get better consistency with 8208 and AR Comp in the cases I shoot. The nice thing about 2000MR is you can use it from 223 to 308, 6.5 creed, 30-06, 270 win, and similar cartridges. It’s definitely one of the most versatile powders out there.

 

[918v]

I replicated this FGMM load using your data (185LRBT, 45.2grs 2000MR, FC case, FC210, 2.800” OAL) and got 2600 FPS out of my 24” barrel. So maybe Federal is using 2000MR in this loading.

 

[1shot2kill]

Updated with velocities

 

[N.Parish]

I have had good luck with these as well . We call them the "creedmoor killer" .lol . I have been loading them with 43.5gr varget getting great results in 4 different 308s. Rl15 and 4064 have also produced great results.

 

[N.Parish]

I should also note that the factory federal ammo shot lights out for us which is why we went to reloading them and im sold for sure. Awesome bullets

 

[j-dubya]

Anyone run this load through shorter gas guns in the 16” range? Curious on accuracy and function in reality with such a slow start. Numbers in JBM look interesting when assuming this round would be up at 2400 in a 16” barrel.

 

[John Glidewell]

Shot the factory stuff out of a 16" AR, very consistent to 1100. That is as far as we went.

 

[1shot2kill]

Load replica update.

 

[Sierra770]

I have had good luck with these as well . We call them the "creedmoor killer" .lol . I have been loading them with 43.5gr varget getting great results in 4 different 308s. Rl15 and 4064 have also produced great results.

Are you using FGMM cases to reload these?

 

[N.Parish]

I sure am. Gmm primers as well. I should also mention thats 3 different twist rates and 4 different length barrels. It shoots lights out in all 4! I have a "long range"308 setup and was hitting at 1350 no problem. My brother center punched a 1200 yard 15 in target with a stock rpr and swfa12x with that same load this summer!

 

[Sierra770]

Pressure signs? Primer Pockets OK?

 

[N.Parish]

No pressure signs pockets have held for 6 firings out of the bolt guns . The brass gets a bit chewed up on extraction for the gas rig so i usually dont load them more than 3 times as to not chance a malfunction of some sort anyway.

 

[j-dubya]

What OAL range? Any velocity number specifically for the gas guns and barrel length?

 

[John Glidewell]

2.8 is what we measured and ran, worked good. OAL is listed in orig post too.

 

[j-dubya]

I should have quoted, but am looking to confirm N.Parish’s OAL on his Varget load.

While I have the components, I’d prefer to just buy factory at the price point. Still unsure of the powder, but if they’re using 2000MR, I’d rather load with varget for data simplicity since it’s for a gas gun.

 

[N.Parish]

2.810 oal
Gas gun - 2650fps 20in 1/10 twist.

 

[j-dubya]

Finally got around to getting a couple boxes of factory to try. OAL measured averaged right at 2.792”. Lowest at 2.789 and highest at 2.795. CBTO had the same 0.006 variation. I intended to pull apart five or more for charge weight measuring, but only pulled two due to powder being clumpy and a pain to get it all out. Both charges pulled measured dead on at 45.80 grains via an A&D scale. That was enough for me to see how it stacked up to the OP’s data.

Last thing I checked was concentricity on a Hornady tool. Measured ten rounds and all were 0.0025 or under. Best FGMM I’ve seen yet.

Anyone else have a look at the powder and figure out if it’s CFE223 or 2000MR?

I will be shooting it this weekend for velocity and start seeing how it fluctuates in temps. Supposed to be a high of 59* here in the Atlanta area this weekend. I wish I would have gotten this stuff sooner so I could already have the numbers at 90*.

 

[John Glidewell]

Anyone else have a look at the powder and figure out if it’s CFE223 or 2000MR?

@1shot2kill prob has the best hands on experience. 45.8 is a bit more than was initially reported too - 45.2. I hope to be able to run both powders and see what happens, prob wont be for a while. Great data though, thanks to all for sharing it.

 

[j-dubya]

The two boxes I bought have different prefixes for their lot numbers, U and V. The rest of the lot number is identical. So I measured the second box and pulled two more charge weights. OAL was a little more sporadic in this box, opening the range up to 0.009” but still centered around the 2.790”.

Charge weights measured 45.46 and 45.50 via A&D scale.

So in this thread we have 45.2 with the OP, and my two samples of the different-prefix-but-otherwise-same-lot-number at 45.5 and 45.8.

 

[toxic]

I pulled 5 of mine here is the results:

COAL CBTO Powder Charge
2.799 2.152 45.2
2.804 2.157 45.0
2.797 2.150 45.1
2.798 2.149 45.1
2.801 2.152 45.1


Powder looks very similar to cfe223 but in my opinion its not. CFE223 looks to be much more spherical, the fed looks much more like a crushed spherical or flake. Color looks pretty spot on though.

CFE223 on left and federal on right:

 

[j-dubya]

Just got back from the store with a pound of CFE223. I put up an urgent WTB ad in the PX, but if anyone has or knows of a source that would sell some projectiles within the next 24 hours, I can charge and seat and have some data on 45.0 - 46.0 test loads this weekend.

Edited to add: I’m in the northwest Atlanta area.

 

[918v]

It’s not CFE. You’ll blow yourself up.

 

[j-dubya]

Ran the factory stuff through the 16” gas gun today for velocity. Both my lot number samples were roughly identical speed wise out of a single set of five shots each. I’m saving the boxes to test across the temps this winter and into next summer. Today was 60*, and I was pleasantly surprised to say the least. I felt I had a realistic yet hopeful expectation of 2400fps since it’s factory ammo and Gold Medal Match isn’t exactly known for its speed - particularly in shorter barrels (my experience).

Muzzle velocity via LabRadar, 60* and ~700ft elevation:

Lot “U” - 2435, SD 12.7, ES 31
2441, SD 12.1, ES 30 - from a second 16” gas I brought
Lot “V” - 2431, SD 10.1, ES 24

Lot “V” is the one I noted above as having the more eratic seating depth variation, and it’s group size on target showed with a much more eratic pattern. Lot “U” showed promise with a pattern much like what I’m used to seeing with 168 FGMM which I use for 100m group practice as it shoots very well and consistent. Again, only five rounds of each lot were fired, so it’s hardly any data.

Very curious on the powder. I highly respect 918V and his knowledge, but I’m still wondering about CFE223. I certainly would rather it be CFE than 2000MR for temperature reasons. Hoping to see the OP’s test of CFE soon.

 

[1shot2kill]

Finally got a chance to go out today and shoot the 5 rounds I reloaded at the end of my shooting session.
Unfortunately my chrono only recorded 1 of the rounds @ 2,600 fps so it looks like CFE223 is a no-go.

 

[memilanuk]

FWIW, a local fellow buys this stuff (FGMM w/ 185 Jugg) by the case from some place online, and it's been working pretty well for him in our local 600yd F-class matches - shot a couple of personal bests at the last one. 199-9X for an individual string, and 590-25X for the agg. Very impressive for factory ammo

 

[1shot2kill]

I'm really sorry guys work/Weather has gotten in the way so this will have to continue in the spring.

 

[memilanuk]

I'm really sorry guys work/Weather has gotten in the way so this will have to continue in the spring.

Well... how about it?

 

[1shot2kill]

Well... how about it?

Covid-19...

 

[equilibrium]

This thread is golden 1shot2kill. Once supplies come back around I will have to try out the 185gr bergers.

With 175 FGMM and a 20” barrel, 2550fps, so it is good to see similar velocity with a heavier bullet. Maybe the creed killer like said above!