Field target rifle vs PRS rifle

[beetroot]

I've often heard people here talk about field target shooting as being a completely different shooting discipline than PRS and have often wondered why folk make such a big distinction between the two.

I get that PRS has very much lost any practical application in that it is now effectively barricade bench rest where you carry your 30lb rifle only a few feet between obstacles/barricades. Field shooting on the other hand seems to be considered what PRS used to be, or should be.

What I don't get is why some people make statements that imply a rifle set up for PRS is not practical as a field rifle.
Other than being unnecessarily heavy what distinguishes a PRS rifle from a field rifle?
Guys take their PRS rifles (or a slightly slimmed down version of) to the likes of the Mammoth Sniper Challenge and many military Sniper rifles aren't exactly lightweight, so what is the difference?

I know ultimately it doesn't matter, and I will just shoot whatever setup I feel comfortable with, just curious if I'm missing something that is obvious to other people or not?

 

[Supersubes]

You mostly answered your own question. Just ask yourself what you’d do different if building a rifle for walking around the wilderness.

 

[beetroot]

@Feniks Technologies I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm just curious about your thoughts on this topic and your comment's in the AT-X thread.

Will you be using rifle on barricades and bags?
If not, IMO, the bone stock AT with folder is the best practical/tactical field on the planet.

I personally prefer the AT as a do all rifle. It can still be shot off props or things like trees a bit better than the AX. At least for me anyway. The “hump” in the AX in front of magwell has just not worked as well for me in non bipod situations.

What about the AT makes it the best field rifle on the planet?
Was this just in the context of it being a better option than an AX for a feild rifle?
What reason (if any) makes the AT a better field rifle than an AT-X or some other gamer rifle set up for PRS/barricade shooting?

 

[MarinePMI]

I think it is some of what you have already mentioned. 28lb, weighted guns, balanced to pivot just ahead of the mag well, with an accompaniment of stuff hanging off the rife (dope card, electronic bubble level, ammo quiver, thumbrest, $600 bipod that also serves espresso...).

Versus a field gun, which typically is (as you said) is a slimmed down rifle (relatively speaking) that is geared more for hunting or belly work (prone) in the field.

PRS is a game that relies on time and different positions to induce stress.

A field gun is geared more to having to carry it in, and get the job done (usually) from a single (prone) position.

It's why so many military Snipers get their butts handed to them the first couple of matches they participate in; their mind set is different. They do everything in their power to stack the odds in their favor of a good shot, and usually have time to do that. So all this other gear that PRS shooters use (and attach to their rifles), to shave time, reduce movement needed to get in/stay in a stable position, and manage recoil for rapid shot engagements, becomes less necessary (and heavy, and potential points of failure) in the field.

 

[beetroot]

You mostly answered your own question. Just ask yourself what you’d do different if building a rifle for walking around the wilderness.

It certainly wouldn't be an Accuraccy International of any kind or anything similar (Sako TRG etc).
I don't see that any of these so called field rifles are any more practical for a hunter than what a PRS rifle is/would be?

The NRL hunter series seems to have been created to be a more practical style of shooting but the heavy open limit of 16lbs is effectively just guys adding carbon barrels to their PRS rifle to try sneak under the weight limit.

Just trying to get my head around whether I'm missing something here or if this is all just a bunch or abitrary terms/classifications that get thrown around that have little to no bearing on real life hunting situations which is really all practical/field shooting is (outside of military/LE).

 

[taliv]

it's not just the weight of the gun, but also accessories: the 8 bags, tables, and other gizmos attached. and the lack of ability to range your own targets, or manage your dope without writing in a book the night before, and lack of efr rail for clip ons

there are subtle differences in guns. narrow, rounded forearm is typically a lot more comfortable to handle in field and slide in a pack, but wide, flat + arca is often easier off a barricade. another difference is stocks like terry's sentinel that have a shelf in front of the mag well that is handy for shooting offhand, but just gets in the way in PRS. benchrest triggers. a field rifle could also use a much narrower barrel profile, like light palma instead of MTU/heavy palma style assuming you don't need to fire 20 round strings in 90 seconds with your field rifle. this would change the balance making offhand easier as well.

 

[Supersubes]

It certainly wouldn't be an Accuraccy International of any kind or anything similar (Sako TRG etc).
I don't see that any of these so called field rifles are any more practical for a hunter than what a PRS rifle is/would be?

The NRL hunter series seems to have been created to be a more practical style of shooting but the heavy open limit of 16lbs is effectively just guys adding carbon barrels to their PRS rifle to try sneak under the weight limit.

Just trying to get my head around whether I'm missing something here or if this is all just a bunch or abitrary terms/classifications that get thrown around that have little to no bearing on real life hunting situations which is really all practical/field shooting is (outside of military/LE).

MarinePMI laid it out pretty well. The roots of this game were born in military/combat, so its no wonder why that bred robust guns. This is where the AI/TRG come from. They have their merits, and theyre well proven. The prs guns have grown to a level of specialization that simply removes them from practical field use. Nobody will say you cant drag one around, but the vast majority will choose not to. Certainly some are competing with a more traditional rifle, but I dont think that’s what we're talking about here.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

It certainly wouldn't be an Accuraccy International of any kind or anything similar (Sako TRG etc).
I don't see that any of these so called field rifles are any more practical for a hunter than what a PRS rifle is/would be?

The NRL hunter series seems to have been created to be a more practical style of shooting but the heavy open limit of 16lbs is effectively just guys adding carbon barrels to their PRS rifle to try sneak under the weight limit.

Just trying to get my head around whether I'm missing something here or if this is all just a bunch or abitrary terms/classifications that get thrown around that have little to no bearing on real life hunting situations which is really all practical/field shooting is (outside of military/LE).

You seem pretty well convinced otherwise. So I’m not sure how else to put it.

The AT is bombproof, bonded, feeds perfectly every time, has a trigger that breaks very clean while still being above 2lbs which is always good for things like cold hands and safety in general.

You can lock the bolt close, has a folder, and AI has best QD barrel system on the market. So you can pack it up fairly small if need be.

The flatter bottom makes it easier to shoot off barricades (everything is a barricade, a fence, car, etc etc).

It has plastic skins, so it won’t be as cold as aluminum and such.


Like I said, you seem pretty convinced otherwise. If you’ve every relied on a rifle or had others who also rely on your rifle, all of the above things will have much more importance.

They all seem small, and individually they are. But the sum of them all creates and extremely reliable system that hardly every fails and isn’t too much weight to carry.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

When I say “field rifle” I don’t mean a pure hunting rifle. I mean an all around rifle that will do just about anything that one would *practically* need.

There are specialty rifles such as ultra-lightweight rifles for mountain hunting, and larger Lapua bolt face or larger rifles which are for extended distances. In both of those extreme circumstances and a few others, you’ll want a specialty rifle.

Bottom line for me:

If I had to choose only one centerfire rifle to own, it would be an AI-AT.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

You seem pretty well convinced otherwise. So I’m not sure how else to put it.

The AT is bombproof, bonded, feeds perfectly every time, has a trigger that breaks very clean while still being above 2lbs which is always good for things like cold hands and safety in general.

You can lock the bolt close, has a folder, and AI has best QD barrel system on the market. So you can pack it up fairly small if need be.

The flatter bottom makes it easier to shoot off barricades (everything is a barricade, a fence, car, etc etc).

It has plastic skins, so it won’t be as cold as aluminum and such.


Like I said, you seem pretty convinced otherwise. If you’ve every relied on a rifle or had others who also rely on your rifle, all of the above things will have much more importance.

They all seem small, and individually they are. But the sum of them all creates and extremely reliable system that hardly every fails and isn’t too much weight to carry.

you nearly described a Tikka in a KRG

the field swappable barrel aspect isn't a feature set i'm bound a determined to have. but being able to change barrels/bolt face without a smith or real tools sure is a bonus.

i like folders, but in any real way i'm not wanting to pay the weight/rearward bias to have one if i'm humping said rifle up a mountain. i've switched over to rifle slung across shoulder on top of rifle lid for most pack ins here in wyoming. rifle goes in hand and stays in hand most all the time.

but if i was back hunting tahr and cham in nzed i'd like the compact nature of a folder for those 6-8 hour slogs through thick stuff to get to good spots.

to some up: a field rifle to me seems general purpose???

the rifle can do many things well, but not skewed one way too much or the other.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

you nearly described a Tikka in a KRG

the field swappable barrel aspect isn't a feature set i'm bound a determined to have. but being able to change barrels/bolt face without a smith or real tools sure is a bonus.

i like folders, but in any real way i'm not wanting to pay the weight/rearward bias to have one if i'm humping said rifle up a mountain. i've switched over to rifle slung across shoulder on top of rifle lid for most pack ins here in wyoming. rifle goes in hand and stays in hand most all the time.

but if i was back hunting tahr and cham in nzed i'd like the compact nature of a folder for those 6-8 hour slogs through thick stuff to get to good spots.

to some up: a field rifle to me seems general purpose???

the rifle can do many things well, but not skewed one way too much or the other.

No, I did not.

That tikka has two action screws, and then you have to make sure mags feed. Among other things.

An AI is a plug and play, hardly every worry with it.

Which is another reason. You’re getting a complete system that can’t move vs buying parts and assembling them which in turn ups the chances of movement.

 

[HaydenLane]

When I say “field rifle” I don’t mean a pure hunting rifle. I mean an all around rifle that will do just about anything that one would *practically* need.

There are specialty rifles such as ultra-lightweight rifles for mountain hunting, and larger Lapua bolt face or larger rifles which are for extended distances. In both of those extreme circumstances and a few others, you’ll want a specialty rifle.

Bottom line for me:

If I had to choose only one centerfire rifle to own, it would be an AI-AT.

I agree with all the reasons you laid out for the AT being an ideal field rifle for tactical use, but for any other purposes 12# naked is pretty impractical and at odds with most of the other posts wrt what a field rifle is.

I’m not saying you’re wrong. It’s just interesting that “field rifle” sometimes implies general purpose, but what one wants still definitely depends on purpose.

 

[HaydenLane]

What I don't get is why some people make statements that imply a rifle set up for PRS is not practical as a field rifle.
Other than being unnecessarily heavy what distinguishes a PRS rifle from a field rifle?
Guys take their PRS rifles (or a slightly slimmed down version of) to the likes of the Mammoth Sniper Challenge and many military Sniper rifles aren't exactly lightweight, so what is the difference?

As I said above, I definitely think this changes with purpose. For me, a 12# dressed and loaded weight is the absolute upper end I’d want to lug around for miles. Shorter barrel, polymer (or other non-metal) skin, lighter weight, and a practical mag range on the scope. I don’t think people are overblowing the difference between the two. I’d take two completely different approaches for a predator/varmint/range gun versus a general purpose hunting rifle (my “field”).

 

[beetroot]

You seem pretty well convinced otherwise. So I’m not sure how else to put it.

The AT is bombproof, bonded, feeds perfectly every time, has a trigger that breaks very clean while still being above 2lbs which is always good for things like cold hands and safety in general.

You can lock the bolt close, has a folder, and AI has best QD barrel system on the market. So you can pack it up fairly small if need be.

The flatter bottom makes it easier to shoot off barricades (everything is a barricade, a fence, car, etc etc).

It has plastic skins, so it won’t be as cold as aluminum and such.


Like I said, you seem pretty convinced otherwise. If you’ve every relied on a rifle or had others who also rely on your rifle, all of the above things will have much more importance.

They all seem small, and individually they are. But the sum of them all creates and extremely reliable system that hardly every fails and isn’t too much weight to carry.

My reply to Supersubes wasn't to put down the AT (this is far from an anti AI thread), I took his scenaro to be a rifle I was carrying around the wilderness as primarily hunting and I don't think an AT would be the 'perfect' hunting rifle.

The reason your posts in the AT-X sparked me to write this thread is I am trying to decide whether to buy an AT for my "perfect" field rifle, the AX has no appeal to me what so ever (for all the reasons you have said in the AT-X thread) but the AT-X makes a fairly compelling case.

If we ignore the competition trigger, all of those things you've said here apply to the AT-X, other than the chassis isn't bonded and the AT has plastic skins (better in cold) and no "stabby" bits that the AT-X/AX has and is a nice rifle to carry and not have parts of the stock to snag on things.

 

[Supersubes]

My reply to Supersubes wasn't to put down the AT (this is far from an anti AI thread), I took his scenaro to be a rifle I was carrying around the wilderness as primarily hunting and I don't think an AT would be the 'perfect' hunting rifle.

The reason your posts in the AT-X sparked me to write this thread is I am trying to decide whether to buy an AT for my "perfect" field rifle, the AX has no appeal to me what so ever (for all the reasons you have said in the AT-X thread) but the AT-X makes a fairly compelling case.

If we ignore the competition trigger, all of those things you've said here apply to the AT-X, other than the chassis isn't bonded and the AT has plastic skins (better in cold) and no "stabby" bits that the AT-X/AX has and is a nice rifle to carry and not have parts of the stock to snag on things.

I wasn't trying to make the case for the AI being perfect hunter. Ive carried mine many miles to play my game, unknown distance steel shooting from field positions, and it’s perfect for this.

If im walking around with a bolt gun for hunting these days, it’ll be a suppressed sub 9lb folder.

 

[deadly0311]

AT-X is truly the best do all rifle that AI has made. In terms of practicality it’s the best overall in the AI line up.

 

[beetroot]

I’m not saying you’re wrong. It’s just interesting that “field rifle” sometimes implies general purpose, but what one wants still definitely depends on purpose.

I think this is the answer to my question, "field rifle" means different things to different people

I wasn't trying to make the case for the AI being perfect hunter. Ive carried mine many miles to play my game, unknown distance steel shooting from field positions, and it’s perfect for this.

If im walking around with a bolt gun for hunting these days, it’ll be a suppressed sub 9lb folder.

I didn't think you were making that comment. I think between you, Feniks and I were aren't fully on the same page.

Very much seems like "field shooting" means totally different things to different people which is pretty much what I expected.

Which begs my next question, what is the difference between a PRS (style) match and a field match?
I see some guys say they don't shoot PRS matches but shoot field shoots.
Is there actually a real world difference, or is its outside an official PRS match then everything is considered a field shoot.

Then in the above case what makes an AT a better field rifle for such event or is it now the case a "PRS" rifle is better suited?
The only real difference i see between a gamer rifle and a more practical one is to lose things like weights, gamer plates etc, perhaps more consideration given to weather/environmental conditions and carry-ability, and positional shooting.

I hope I'm not coming across like I'm telling people what is right and what is wrong, just genuinely curious as to what peoples thoughts are on the difference between the two 'disciplines'.

 

[dgheriani]

I think you need to define what "field" means to you. When lots of guys here talk about "field use" they're basically talking about shooting field/ukd matches (or actual mil/LE uses that those kind of matches try to parallel) vs talking about typical hunting. For those uses guys are willing to carry more weight to have a more "shootable" system and 16-19lbs rifles are common even though they are much heavier than most hunters (even long range hunters) are willing to carry. For comparison, just look at the weight of currently deployed sniper weapon systems, they're pretty much in that same range. Anyways, that applies to me, my "field" rifles are in the 16-19lbs (all in) range (depending on caliber), my long range hunting rifle is 10.5lbs (including bipod) and my PRS rifles are about 23+ lbs. Different tools for different tasks.

 

[dgheriani]

I think this is the answer to my question, "field rifle" means different things to different people

I didn't think you were making that comment. I think between you, Feniks and I were aren't fully on the same page.

Very much seems like "field shooting" means totally different things to different people which is pretty much what I expected.

Which begs my next question, what is the difference between a PRS (style) match and a field match?
I see some guys say they don't shoot PRS matches but shoot field shoots.
Is there actually a real world difference, or is its outside an official PRS match then everything is considered a field shoot.

Then in the above case what makes an AT a better field rifle for such event or is it now the case a "PRS" rifle is better suited?
The only real difference i see between a gamer rifle and a more practical one is to lose things like weights, gamer plates etc, perhaps more consideration given to weather/environmental conditions and carry-ability, and positional shooting.

I hope I'm not coming across like I'm telling people what is right and what is wrong, just genuinely curious as to what peoples thoughts are on the difference between the two 'disciplines'.

Most "true" field matches (and not PRS matches occurring outside a square range) are generally some variation on "locate, range, engage" on the clock. This means that generally you have a bit more time to build a stable position and that often you aren't forced to shoot off contrived props. Lots are tripod heavy (since a good tripod is often the solution for lots of different positions). A heavy-ass PRS rifle will still generally be easier to shoot well in a field match (I've shot my PRS setup in the Snipershide Team Challenge to good effect) until you throw in movement under time (Mammoth, some CD matches, etc) at which point you want to be dropping weight (cause it sucks to move fast with lotsa weight) but still keeping the rifle "shootable" for longer strings of fire than you'd ever encounter in a hunting situation (I hope, haha). Different guys end up with different compromises based on their fitness level/will to suffer carrying a heavier rifle (that is easier to shoot well).

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Obviously everyone needs to define their own needs.

Some people *only* need a specialty rifle or two. If you only walk around back country, you’re gonna want a light right. If you only shoot PRS, you’ll want a comp rifle.

If you do a lot of stuff in between different specialities, you’ll want a rifle that is very well rounded. Which again, is what I consider a field rifle. Maybe call it a general utility rifle, or whatever else you want to call it.

It’s the rifle I pick up when I need to shoot 1200 or less, don’t mind a 15lb rifle, don’t need a light trigger, and don’t need it to free recoil perfectly on a barricade bag because I have to make 12 shots in 5 positions in 90sec and trying to win a match. And I need it to be able to get beat or scratched up within reason enough to still be able to perform well.

I’d put rifles such as the GAP Thunder Ranch and Tac Ops rifles in the same category. Though I think there are some perks to have a flat bottom and 4 screws.

 

[Mr. F]

AT-X is truly the best do all rifle that AI has made. In terms of practicality it’s the best overall in the AI line up.

Def getting one if they figure out the feeding issues… the non comp trigger would have been my choice but the comp is ok when its clean

 

[308pirate]

For me, a 12# dressed and loaded weight is the absolute upper end I’d want to lug around for miles. Shorter barrel, polymer (or other non-metal) skin, lighter weight, and a practical mag range on the scope.

We think alike

A hair over 12 lbs unloaded, 17" barrel, 4-16X scope

 

[HaydenLane]

We think alike
View attachment 7853238

A hair over 12 lbs unloaded, 17" barrel, 4-16X scope

Yep, that checks every box for me. Nice build.

 

[beetroot]

For comparison, just look at the weight of currently deployed sniper weapon systems, they're pretty much in that same range. Anyways, that applies to me, my "field" rifles are in the 16-19lbs (all in) range (depending on caliber), my long range hunting rifle is 10.5lbs (including bipod) and my PRS rifles are about 23+ lbs. Different tools for different tasks.

I really don't see the difference between a PRS rifle and an AI ASR/AX if most guys dropped the extra weights off their PRS rifle I don't see how it'd be functionally any different.
(Reliability and simplicity may be another matter).

I guess I have the answer to my questions though, a field rifle can be whatever the owner wants it to be, and Field shoots are a catch all name for something that isn't barricade bench rest.

 

[beetroot]

you nearly described a Tikka in a KRG

the field swappable barrel aspect isn't a feature set i'm bound a determined to have. but being able to change barrels/bolt face without a smith or real tools sure is a bonus.

i like folders, but in any real way i'm not wanting to pay the weight/rearward bias to have one if i'm humping said rifle up a mountain. i've switched over to rifle slung across shoulder on top of rifle lid for most pack ins here in wyoming. rifle goes in hand and stays in hand most all the time.

but if i was back hunting tahr and cham in nzed i'd like the compact nature of a folder for those 6-8 hour slogs through thick stuff to get to good spots.

to some up: a field rifle to me seems general purpose???

the rifle can do many things well, but not skewed one way too much or the other.

I think a Tikka in a KRG Bravo would definitely be a good option for a do everything rifle.

Basically a budget Sako TRG but with the ability to add weights for a PRS match, or slap on a carbon barrel and use it for hunting.

Funny you mention a folder for hunting Thar in NZ, I bet most of the Thar shot has been either by a very standard looking Tikka T3 or Sako 75/85.

 

[brianf]

that brings up a question that has been anwered 1mm times...weight

at some point in time everyone tries to build a do-all rifle

as said above thats not going to be a f-class rig or a steep mountain sheep/ram rifle

all things considered how much weight is too much?

id bet 9-10 hunters drive their truck or ATV within 1000 yards of a blind/hut or their "hunting spot"

1-10 hunters actually backpack in or walk 6-8 miles a day, some guys do but transportation "in" is becoming much more common

if i dont need a heavy day pack (tent, food sleeping bag etc) because there is a "home base" ill biathlon sling up my rifle when walking between glassing

or, how far do you walk when you go to the range (not you lucky guys that shoot off the back deck), and at that distance does weight matter

how far do you guys carry your rifles and when you think about it does the weight really mater?

i found my limit for anything is upper 20's had a 1919 BAR at about 30 and my AR-50 was prob 37 or so

i could deal with the BAR but sure didnt want to carry if i didnt have to and the AR-50 was just to much weighed for walking anything more than the car to the bench


thanks



edit...the usual stuff

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Funny you mention a folder for hunting Thar in NZ, I bet most of the Thar shot has been either by a very standard looking Tikka T3 or Sako 75/85.

good trip down memory lane. killed a pile of Thar with my tikka, and a few with my buddies Sako. slummed a savage first trip that spanned half a year. that was a mistake. good part was i didn't have to cry too hard when i replacd it when it got ripped off. #thievesdeservesavages

should call that combo of 7mm-08 with 162amax/eld in a long boltstop/mag stainless tikka the Johnson and Johnson. it's bad medicine.

 

[ma smith]

IMHO, well designed field rifles need to be clean on the exterior
and be easy to maintain, transport, and live with all weather.

Good accuracy is only part of the design criteria
terry cross seems to have a lot to say on that

Check out his thread on KMW chassis design

 

[freedom71]

If you're looking for an AT folder at a great price, EuroOptic has an unfired demo on sale right now for 3999. I have an AT and it is a superb all-round rifle for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

[phlegm]

On the subject of actual Field Target, I'm still surprised that more people aren't shooting this. Practical shooting, but within 50 yards? Yes.

 

[SmolPP]

I think it is some of what you have already mentioned. 28lb, weighted guns, balanced to pivot just ahead of the mag well, with an accompaniment of stuff hanging off the rife (dope card, electronic bubble level, ammo quiver, thumbrest, $600 bipod that also serves espresso...).

Versus a field gun, which typically is (as you said) is a slimmed down rifle (relatively speaking) that is geared more for hunting or belly work (prone) in the field.

PRS is a game that relies on time and different positions to induce stress.

A field gun is geared more to having to carry it in, and get the job done (usually) from a single (prone) position.

It's why so many military Snipers get their butts handed to them the first couple of matches they participate in; their mind set is different. They do everything in their power to stack the odds in their favor of a good shot, and usually have time to do that. So all this other gear that PRS shooters use (and attach to their rifles), to shave time, reduce movement needed to get in/stay in a stable position, and manage recoil for rapid shot engagements, becomes less necessary (and heavy, and potential points of failure) in the field.

That's a great response.
BTW, do you have a link for the espresso bipod? I'm looking for something special for my next build.

 

[dgheriani]

I really don't see the difference between a PRS rifle and an AI ASR/AX if most guys dropped the extra weights off their PRS rifle I don't see how it'd be functionally any different.
(Reliability and simplicity may be another matter).

I guess I have the answer to my questions though, a field rifle can be whatever the owner wants it to be, and Field shoots are a catch all name for something that isn't barricade bench rest.

Yeah, honestly I don't think they are much different (other than caliber and possibly reliability/simplicity) other than probably having a lighter contour barrel (being that MTUs and straight tapers are common in PRS). Realistically, most guys' "field rifle" will fit in somewhere between the extremes of the spectrum of light weight (mountain hunting rifle) vs ease of shooting well (PRS rifle).

 

[Mareshow]

Lots of great conversation here. I think "Field rifle" is a very broad term. (like most others have said)

To some a field rifle is a pack rifle used to hike up mountains for 8 hours a day for a sheep hunt. To others its a 5 min walk from the truck to the ground blind or tree stand. For most its somewhere inbetween. I think for each person the ideal "field rifle" comes down to three categories; weight, application and weather (terrain, temp and wind)

I coyote hunt with a 64 year old guy. He uses a Tikka lite in 204 ruger. He put a bit of a heavier scope on it after seeing the value extra magnification can have some times. His rifle weight with everything is maybe 9 lbs. With this set up he limits his shots on coyotes to about 250 yds or less. He uses a swagger sitting bipod

Meanwhile I use a Victrix Venus T (PRS rig) in 6xc with scope its probably around 13.5 lbs. I use a tripod with it. I value the extra weight for stability while shooting coyotes and my self imposed range limit is 600 yds.

is that over kill? probably. but the added confidence of being able to shoot the additional distance IMO is worth it to me. We hike in up to 2 km for some spots. and do about 9 stands a day.

IMO this is not a sheep gun. and in the terrain around here if I have to carry a couple of extra pounds for the opportunity to feel confident taking some longer shots thats energy well spent. I'm switching to a synthetic stock though because metal sucks in -20C

 

[deersniper]

Meh. I think the AT-X and reliable PRS guns can do both. Loose the gamer plate , big heavy barrels , dope card , big fan etc and it works for general purpose use. People have been using metal handguards for decades on AR10s/15s , mk13s etc with no issue

If ya get specialized with high mag scopes light unreliable triggers etc. Maybe not so much.

 

[Alpine 338]

I have a standard configuration for most of my rifles. Just about everything I own from 223AI to 338LM is based on a configuration to provide the best ergonomics for me. Depending on barrel length, it puts my rifles in the 17 to 19-lb range.

Unfortunately, to play the NRL Hunter game, I had to make changes. I went to a Heavy Palma profile barrel (from M24 or Heavy Varmint), and a Carbon Fiber Manners stock (prefer McMillan A5).

Honestly, that 15.2 lbs 6.5x47L rifle doesn't feel any lighter than my other 6.5x47L that's closer to 17 lbs.

I don't think it really matters what you call it in the end (Hunting, Field, or PRS rifle), as long as the rifle fits your needs, and who gives a damn about those idiots that turn it into drama complaining whether or not it's practical, weighs too much, etc.

 

[MarinePMI]

Yes, this has been quite an interesting and well mannered discussion.

As a point of reference, here's my deer hunting rifle. As you can see, I hunt more from an overwatch mindset (age and some recent physical challenges have driven this). Is it a "field rifle"? <shrug> It is for me.

 

[dgheriani]

Meh. I think the AT-X and reliable PRS guns can do both. Loose the gamer plate , big heavy barrels , dope card , big fan etc and it works for general purpose use. People have been using metal handguards for decades on AR10s/15s , mk13s etc with no issue

If ya get specialized with high mag scopes light unreliable triggers etc. Maybe not so much.

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Yeah, I don't disagree. Despite having a few different dedicated "field" rifles, for field matches I generally swap barrels/chassis/optics around on my PRS rifles to end up at the desired weight/caliber/optic setup.

 

[trob_205]

Is this a good time to talk about trigger weight lol? I’m starting to see a lot more people openly admitting on public forum that they can’t shoot a 1.5+ lbs trigger. For some reason that really bothers me as someone that sees a major difference between field rifles and SHOOTERS, compared to the tactical bench rest guns and shooters. I could see putting a 10-12oz trigger in a gamer gun. I could never envision a sub pound trigger (personally sub 2 lbs trigger, but I know some people might get too taken back by that) in a field rifle.

 

[rottenruger]

I've often heard people here talk about field target shooting as being a completely different shooting discipline than PRS and have often wondered why folk make such a big distinction between the two.

I get that PRS has very much lost any practical application in that it is now effectively barricade bench rest where you carry your 30lb rifle only a few feet between obstacles/barricades. Field shooting on the other hand seems to be considered what PRS used to be, or should be.

What I don't get is why some people make statements that imply a rifle set up for PRS is not practical as a field rifle.
Other than being unnecessarily heavy what distinguishes a PRS rifle from a field rifle?
Guys take their PRS rifles (or a slightly slimmed down version of) to the likes of the Mammoth Sniper Challenge and many military Sniper rifles aren't exactly lightweight, so what is the difference?

I know ultimately it doesn't matter, and I will just shoot whatever setup I feel comfortable with, just curious if I'm missing something that is obvious to other people or not?

My son in law is ALWAYS giving me grief, saying I am going to be yelling at the Zombies as they approach, GIVE ME FIVE MORE MINUTES TO GET MY BENCH SET UP!!!! My comeback, of course, is that if I am shooting them at a mile away (Lapua 338), I've got the five minutes! Who knows???

 

[dgheriani]

Is this a good time to talk about trigger weight lol? I’m starting to see a lot more people opening admitting on public forum that they can’t shoot a 1.5+ lbs trigger. For some reason that really bothers me as someone that sees a major difference between field rifles and SHOOTERS, compared to the tactical bench rest guns and shooters. I could see putting a 10-12oz trigger in a gamer gun. I could never envision a sub pound trigger (personally sub 2 lbs trigger, but I know some people might get too taken back by that) in a field rifle.

Yeah, I mean to each his own, I guess. I don't really like the super light triggers (sub 1lbs), even on a gamer gun. I run TT Special 2-stages in all my guns with the 2nd stage set around 1.25-1.5lbs in gamer, field, hunting rifles. I like the consistency of always having the same trigger feel/break across multiple platforms.

 

[beetroot]

Yes, this has been quite an interesting and well mannered discussion.

As a point of reference, here's my deer hunting rifle. As you can see, I hunt more from an overwatch mindset (age and some recent physical challenges have driven this). Is it a "field rifle"? <shrug> It is for me.

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There is only one rule for field rifles, no Razor Gen 2s, they are too heavy for field rifles.
I think what you have there is a Hybrid PRS/tactical shooter rather than a true field rifle.

Sarcasm off.

Sweet set up.
It's incredible how many guys shoot a Tikka in a KRG chassis, you'd swear there was some collusion to take of the industry if you didn't know any better.

 

[Dobermann]

@beetroot: For what it's worth, in one podcast (with Frank?), Jacob said something like that for Assassin's Way, he'd recommend something closer to a hunting rifle than a heavy rifle (can't remember - he might have even said compared to a 'sniper' rifle or comp rifle...).

I've always been curious to hear more about how he would define this - total weight, barrel contour, stock design, scope mag and weight, bipod or no, etc etc ... perhaps a good topic for an upcoming RO Accuracy podcast, @Feniks Technologies?

 

[M8541Reaper]

I’m starting to see a lot more people opening admitting on public forum that they can’t shoot a 1.5+ lbs trigger.

That’s because their fundamentals are trash. At least they admit it though.

 

[forthehunt]

My field target is a touch over 10lb with a short Atlas Cal.

I use the same rifle for "PRS" (not competing, just set up among friends). I switch the fore end and throw on a few weights out front. Brings the setup to 15lbs with a double pull Ckye2.

I could probably make the PRS set up heavier but I like it so much, I may leave it like that for the next hunt. Should have got the triple pull.

 

[b6graham]

Is this a good time to talk about trigger weight lol? I’m starting to see a lot more people openly admitting on public forum that they can’t shoot a 1.5+ lbs trigger. For some reason that really bothers me as someone that sees a major difference between field rifles and SHOOTERS, compared to the tactical bench rest guns and shooters. I could see putting a 10-12oz trigger in a gamer gun. I could never envision a sub pound trigger (personally sub 2 lbs trigger, but I know some people might get too taken back by that) in a field rifle.

i run the same action and trigger on comp gun as i do my hunting rifle. Origin with a BnA set around 6-8 ounces. run what your familiar with. i can sit with my finger on the trigger shoe for a long time and in rather cold temperatures

i have no plans to change that for NRL Hunter or CD matches or for western hunting

 

[hlee]

Is this a good time to talk about trigger weight lol? I’m starting to see a lot more people openly admitting on public forum that they can’t shoot a 1.5+ lbs trigger. For some reason that really bothers me as someone that sees a major difference between field rifles and SHOOTERS, compared to the tactical bench rest guns and shooters. I could see putting a 10-12oz trigger in a gamer gun. I could never envision a sub pound trigger (personally sub 2 lbs trigger, but I know some people might get too taken back by that) in a field rifle.

As an RO at a few national 2-day PRS events, I have seen some HORRENDOUS trigger control/manipulation. But with those super light triggers, the shooters are making hits. My lightest is a 1lb/1lb 2 stage Kidd trigger, and it is easy to blow through the first stage and send one. Better be on target when you touch the trigger.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Substitute the word "field" for "duty."

If you do that, i'll take a bone factory AT or AW over anything else, including my own AT that is far from factory.

 

[hlee]

I'd say that field rifle is a somewhat arbitrary designations. A 'field rifle' is the rifle you carry in the field, whether for hunting, 'glass/range/shoot' competitions, or 'duty.' Everyone has their own weight budget based on the field environment. Everyone also has their own requirements for accuracy and precision and rate of fire.

A sheep hunter has a low weight budget (wants a super light rifle) but also has a low requirement for rate of fire. S/he's typically a 'one shot one kill and then the work begins' kind of shooter. Don't get me wrong, shots can be very long and the accuracy has to be there, but this shooter is less concerned with "stringing" and the effects of barrel heat on POI. As long as the cold bore shot is repeatable, this shooter is good to go.

The hunter that drives to within a couple 100 yards of a box blind can carry whatever rifle he wants. Heavy rifle, light rifle, black powder, semi auto, single shot, lever gun, whatever. So long as it shoots straight, the world is his oyster. All rifles are 'field rifles.'

A sniper in A-stan might really like to have a super light rifle for rucking, but he has a potentially much higher rate of fire and stringing and barrel heat effects are much more of a concern. His rifle will sport a heavier barrel to account for these effects. His rifle also needs to be 'hardened' (for lack of a better term) against environmental and handling effects in ways that a competition rifle does not. If the jewel trigger goes down on your comp rifle, the very worst that happens is that you can't complete the competition- more likely you take a DNF (or partial score) on a stage and can have it back up and running before the next stage begins. The sniper doesn't have that luxury. This shooter cannot walk back to the truck where he has an armory's worth of gun smithing tools, just in case. The magazine system must work and not fail. The amount of magazine shenanigans I have seen shooters at competitions put up with is ludicrous. The bolt can't bind up with snow, rain, dirt, mud, etc. How many threads have we seen through the years about a comp gun that binds up because of a ceracoat job on the bolt? The trigger can't be a safety hazard, as this shooter is dealing with stress beyond a guy with a shot clock.

PRS is sort of a weird beast. Stages are typically set up to off-balance the shooter and stages are quick with many shots fired under a time constraint. The rifle compensates for this by being very heavy, typically with a very light trigger. The terminal ballistics requirement of these rifles is that the bullet causes a steel target to move enough for a spotter to see. As such, shooters tend to shoot low recoiling cartridges. A heavy rifle with minimal recoil also allows the shooter to spot and correct his own misses- a skill at a premium in PRS. These rifles are easier to shoot from odd positions that the above 3 shooters tend to avoid. Shooting from the bouncy end of an aluminum gate? Why? The gate post is a couple of feet away. Shooting from a slick 45deg angled post? I have a tripod in my bag you aren't letting me use. 3 shots from 3 different positions? I can see the targets from all of the positions. Why move? Because it is a game, and these are the rules proscribed by the stage description. The rifles are built to shoot well within these contrived situations. And at the end of the stage, it is a short walk (with a baby stroller) to the next stage. Walk? Half of the guys are driving razers from stage to stage...

Can you hunt with a PRS gun? Sure you can. Can you shoot PRS with a sheep gun? Sure you can. Are either optimized for the other task? No. The PRS gun is specialized for the PRS events. Bag riders, gamer plates, weight systems, truck axle diameter barrels, light triggers, finicky magazine 'solutions,' ultra light clearances, etc are all acceptable on the manicured lawns of the PRS range, but less desirable once you are away from the truck.

 

[StLPro2A]

You mostly answered your own question. Just ask yourself what you’d do different if building a rifle for walking around the wilderness.

I hire a gun bearer....... Helps the local economy.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Obviously everyone needs to define their own needs.

Some people *only* need a specialty rifle or two. If you only walk around back country, you’re gonna want a light right. If you only shoot PRS, you’ll want a comp rifle.

If you do a lot of stuff in between different specialities, you’ll want a rifle that is very well rounded. Which again, is what I consider a field rifle. Maybe call it a general utility rifle, or whatever else you want to call it.

It’s the rifle I pick up when I need to shoot 1200 or less, don’t mind a 15lb rifle, don’t need a light trigger, and don’t need it to free recoil perfectly on a barricade bag because I have to make 12 shots in 5 positions in 90sec and trying to win a match. And I need it to be able to get beat or scratched up within reason enough to still be able to perform well.

I’d put rifles such as the GAP Thunder Ranch and Tac Ops rifles in the same category. Though I think there are some perks to have a flat bottom and 4 screws.

I have a GAP Thunder Ranch rifle in 6.5x47 I've used many times at the CD Steel Safari since 2014. Which I'd consider a "Field Match" same for Carl Taylor's Kettle Falls Steel Challenge years ago. I've also hunted with it since it's under 16.5 lb limit here in Idaho, even w/the TBAC 30BA hanging off it. Not short by any means w/ a 24" bbl. and the 9" can, but neither is my TRG 300 NM w/another TBAC 338 can on it. Which the can gets me over the 16.5 lb weight limit. Although I'd have to say there's a huge difference in "Field Use" between the two, and frankly I'd rather carry the Thunder Ranch rifle in the field. As much as I like competing I'm more old school, and getting older by the day, so I've never wanted anything heavier than 18 lbs fully loaded and ready to go.....