Final .284 thoughts?

[anthonylapoint]

So, I finally got the final pieces together for my .284 and its almost time to send it to the gunsmith. I want to make sure everything has been thought out carefully and precisely before I burn time and money on something I'm not entirely happy with. I want to do this once and do it right

Parts list:
Remington Long action
Timney trigger
Badger bolt knob
Egw 20 MOA scope base
Pac-Nor 1-9 twist varmint [email protected]"
Mrad muzzle brake
Burris extreme tactical 34mm medium rings
Steiner 4-16x50 military
Manners Eh1 with carbon fill 2 flush cups and badger front rail
Ptg m5 Stealth bottom metal

Its going to get a competition recoil lug, pillar and bedded, stronger extractor and firing pin, trued and lapped, bedded scope base and painted. I know the barrel is short for a .284 but its also going to be for hunting, hence mostly light weight parts. I plan on using h4831sc and never trying rl17 for longer barrel life.

Anybody have anything in mind I'm missing....or ideas? I'm going to probably cut the chamber for 162 amax/168 bthp instead of 175-180 grain bullets because I feel the barrel will be to short to be able to get enough velocity out of the 175's to fully utilize their potential. Before I do get it cut, I wanted to hear your thoughts.

Here's a shitty mock up picture of what it will kinda look like. Maybe short bus can do his special desert digital on the stock.

 

[anthonylapoint]

I also have the 26" hart barrel in 6mm I'm gonna chamber in 243 then send to hart and get it contoured in varmint. Also, anyone have aluminum tps rings for sale or trade for these Burris, let me know. These are the $150 burris rings by the way.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

22" is awful short for a 284. Think I'd just do a 7mm08.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Should I just use RL-17 to get the velocities out of the 162's, smoke the barrel and get a new one?

 

[anthonylapoint]

22" is awful short for a 284. Think I'd just do a 7mm08.

How would a 7mm08 be more effective? Wouldn't it still push them slow or is it cause you are using varget?

 

[Barney88PDC]

I put together a 7SAUM on a Long Action for a buddy on a 24" fluted #3 Bartlien with a Manner EH1 stock. Using Berger 180 VLD's and H4831sc we are getting 2975fps using 62.5 grains, Nosler brass, CCI BR2. Rigged out it is 10.5# with optics.

 

[flatland1]

Dunno - my shortest 284 bbls are 28". I get around 2745fps using 4831SC & Berger or JLK 180VLDs out of either a PacNor 3-groove on a LA 700 or Bartlein 5R on my DTA SRS. Sure, I can get more velocity out of either bbl using RL17 - have pushed the 180s to 2871fps with it out of the DTA. But the PacNor on the M700 just flat hammers with 180s & H4831 at 2735fp. For some reason, I get slightly more velocity & better accuracy out of that PacNor with regular 4831 than with the short cut version.

At any rate, I'd hate to go shorter than 24" with a 284. You went with a long action so you could seat bullets out past the point where they intrude on powder capacity - why not go with a barrel length that'll let you benefit from the velocity the extra powder capacity will provide? Other than that, it looks & sounds to me as though you've got all the parts & pieces to put a very nice rifle together.

 

[2Shots]

Just a couple of observations, or opinions, building the 284 on a long action is a good idea, that way you can utilize all of the case capacity for powder and can set your bullet out. Drawback of the long action, your mags are really awkward, longer bolt throw. To use a competition gun that will weight probably 12-14 lbs for hunting its all up to you, they get heavy if your humping it all day. Your barrel length, you might as well build a 7-08, with that slow powder and short barrel you'll never get the velocity you want (assuming you are trying to go 3000 plus) make it 25" to 27" maybe. I still think you'll need a faster powder, even you run the long action. I have a newly built 7-08 with a 25.5" barrel, 162's burning H4350 I'm getting 2800 fps. If I burned 4831sc it would be slower no matter what the charge. My guess is even with that extra capacity case you can't get very fast with that slow powder and short barrel. Now you take the 7wsm, build it on a short action, run alpha mags to load out to 2.90", run a slow powder like retumbo or similar with a 26" barrel, you'll get 3150. As I said, been there, done that and have run a lot of calculations on the 284, it's hard to have everything in one caliber, great round but limits. By the way, 10 years ago I had a custom lightweight hunting gun built on a short action in 284, put a nice 20" barrel on it. Might as well have done a 7-08, performs about the same. Good luck with your choice.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Thanks for the responses guys. Honestly, I bought the barrel here on the hide lightly used and a great price. The barrel was listed as 24" already chambered, all I had to do was to push the throat forward for longer seated rounds and check headspace. Well, I got it and from the recoil lug to the tip, its 22.5". I'm a little disappointed as I didn't want anything less then 24 but what am I gonna do. I got the barrel for $190 with dies. Ill use this barrel as a test dummy for my learning curve.

I plan on using 4831 as I have heard its accurate as all balls but if I'm not getting good velocity, ill use RL-17 and shoot the barrel out and replace.

 

[Powermac]

Yes indeed the 22.5 is really short for a 284, sticking with the 150-168 gr bullets, and RL 17, VV N560 and 550 will give you better velocity then H4831. If the chamber is cut for the 180 vld with a long freebore, some of the shorter bullets might not give you optimal accuracy though.
My favorite powder for the 284 is N560 with the 180's but with lighter bullets and a shorter barrel 550 is likely more ideal.
RL 17 i have no personal experience with as it's not imported here.
My LA 284 with a 26' Krieger barrel, as short as I'm willing to go on a 284. Gives me avg 2854 fps with 180 Hybrids, N560, CCI BR2, and Lapua cases.
For comparsion H4831 SC gives me 2741 fps on average.
This is with a suppressor attached an AU S7.
The 7 inches long suppressor is why i went down to 26' on the barrel.

It's currently my favorite hunting rifle, carrying a heavier rifle just means you get some more exercise IMO.

 

[RobG]

Since the barrel is already cut there isn't much you can do. I found H4350 to work better for me than SC. You may give it a try with a 162 and see how it does. I run it with a 175 at around 2780 and a 26" Oby.

 

[anthonylapoint]

I'm sorry, I missed an important detail. The barrel is cut for 162 amax rounds to be chambered in a Short Action, around 2.9 oal i think. I'm gonna cut it for 3.1-3.2 oal. Probably 3.1 oal with the 162's.

Powermac, how's the temp sensitivity with the n560 and 550?

I have 4350 so ill definitely give that a try.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

How would a 7mm08 be more effective? Wouldn't it still push them slow or is it cause you are using varget?

Wasn't suggesting the 7mm08 would *outperform* the 284. However, at least in my eyes, the small ballistic advantage of the 284 (in a 22" bbl) wouldn't be worth the extra hassle of dealing with a 284.

 

[anthonylapoint]

I wouldn't say its an extra hassle to load a 284. More expensive yes. Ill stick with the better performance of the 284 still, thanks though.

 

[Sniper260]

By all means I think the 284 is a great round. I want to build one myself. My opinion here is 1- throw the barrel you got on there and get some practice reloading and shooting it... It is too short to get the ballistic performance of a true 284, but it will still shoot. for a 284 you want a 27 or 28 inch barrel. That will give the performance. RL-17 is known in the benchrest world for the powder for a 284 or 284 variant. opinion 2- if you want to save trouble down the road... Save some pennies and get a new barrel blank 1:9 twist still... then get it chambered right the first time around with the longer barrel. IMO with building custom rifles its not worth the hassle of just getting it done quicker vs getting it done right the first time.... Other thought.... Get another barrel to do the 284.... then use this barrel you have, get it cut some and rechambered in 7mm08.. Then you have two barrels for one gun and can switch them out... you will have a 284 for long range target and steel work... then a shorty barrel to throw on for hunting.... 7mm08 can do real well with a 20 inch barrel.. (just an example is how people build a XP-100 specialty pistol in 7mm08 or 308 with a 16 inch barrel...)

Thats the roads I would think about. Personally I would get a whole new barrel blank for the 284 to just do it right the first time..

 

[Sniper260]

and I agree with most others that posted too.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

It is a major hassle to acquire WW-Super 284 brass.

It is a pretty big hassle to prep Lapua 6.5-284 brass for use as 284. The donuts are a pain to get rid of.

 

[RobG]

I wouldn't call acquiring WW 284 brass a hassle. More like impossible. Three inquiries to WW lead me to believe they may never make it again. At a minimum, it is certainly on a wayyyy back burner until caught up on more popular product. My brass has about had it so I will be forced to try some 6.5 and neck up. Gonna go with Nosler instead of Lapua.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

The WW crops up from time to time, but usually it's used.

I, for one, have been burned too many times buying "once fired" used brass, and have given up on it completely unless it can be verified it was factory loaded and truly "once" fired. That basically leaves military 5.56 and 7.62 brass.

Also, most of the 284 chambers being cut these days are done with reamers designed with European brass in mind, which is a little bigger at the .200" line. Running WW brass in these chambers works, but allows primer pockets to open FAST, even with reasonable pressures.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Is .280 brass any easier to acquire? Would .280 be a better choice then .284?

Is there any brass that donuts less than others? Necking 22-250 brass to 6X never gave me issues with remington brass, I never tried Lapua though.

 

[anthonylapoint]

I have seen the winchester brass pop up too, but rare as hell. Ill just have to keep an eye on the for sale section.

Ducks and Bucks, ill probably just get a little practice with this barrel and switch it out. When I bought the barrel, I didn't know if I wanted to shoot this round as i really wanted to build a 6.5 creedmoor. I figured it was cheap enough for the barrel that it would let me try it out without much money going into the project. If loading and brass become a hassle, ill just shoot the barrel out and try something else.

 

[RobG]

280 brass does seem to be easier to find. I am considering it when I re-barrel purely because of the brass issue. Some have no problems with donuts. They simply run a mandrel through the 6.5 brass to open it up. I cannot find the particular thread but, donuts seem to become an issue when seating below the neck junction of the case, or something like that.

 

[Red_SC]

Here's what I was playing with last night. There might be another source if you have access to a lathe- and they're less than half the price of Lapua. I'll update when I have time later.

 

[anthonylapoint]

Red SC, are you trimming 280 brass to fit the profil of a 284? How's that chambering for you?

Rob G, so if I'm running a long action I should be okay? Don't all full size dies have expanding mandrels? If I'm using a full length die, not a body die, and a long action, I should be okay? What's it matter, I'm committed and i have to buy brass anyway

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Red SC, are you trimming 280 brass to fit the profil of a 284? How's that chambering for you?

Rob G, so if I'm running a long action I should be okay? Don't all full size dies have expanding mandrels? If I'm using a full length die, not a body die, and a long action, I should be okay? What's it matter, I'm committed and i have to buy brass anyway

No. 280 can't be used as a parent to the 284 because the 280 has a body diameter of ~.470" at the .200" line and 284 is more like .497" or so.

[MENTION=2108]Red_SC[/MENTION]

You've piqued my curiosity, what is the parent case you're working with here?

 

[Red_SC]

So, the Winchester .284 brass I'm shooting came from my uncle, who sizes it up to .30 for his 7.5x55. That's a common conversion, or was a couple years ago when 7.5x55 brass was almost nonexistant but .284 was available. Funny how that's reversed now.

The thought struck me; if you can use .284 in 7.5x55 with only a neck diameter change, could you do the same in reverse? One case in the pics above is a piece of 7.5x55 Norma brass that I converted to .284 and successfully fired in my rifle.

The first challenge is that the case body is nearly the same, but the 7.5x55 isn't a rebated rim. Since I was only doing a couple pieces as a test, I just chucked the brass in a 3 jaw and turned the rim down to the same diameter as a .284 case. It ended up thicker, so I had to use a different shellholder when loading but it fed and extracted normally in my Badger action. Later, I ended up chucking it back up and turning off the front of the rim so that it's the same as factory .284. I did it carefully with a parting tool, but I'll need to pick up a left handed toolholder if I do many of these, it should make that a snap.

The brass ended up around .020 long, so I trimmed and deburred it.

Then, I loaded it as normal. I full length sized it and then small base sized it; I don't know that it was necessary, but I've done all my brass that way for this rifle. The chamber GAP cut in this barrel is so tight that factory fresh Winchester brass wouldn't chamber without difficulty.

The last thing is headspace, it's the only thing I didn't catch. The shoulder appears to be just slightly further back on the 7.5 brass. One piece of the test brass wouldn't get a solid hit from the firing pin, but the other did just fine. In the future I'll back the bushing off a little in my die so a false shoulder is left on the brass.


Overall, it's work but it may be less than the sizing and turning needed by Lapua brass. The rim needs to be wacked off and thinned on a lathe; beyond that it's just trimming, loading, and firing. The advantage is 7.5 brass starts at under $0.50 each depending on brand, it would hurt a lot less than Lapua with the hours in it when you have to leave it on the ground at a stage. I really have enough Winchester brass to wear out this barrel, but if there's interest I may order some Prvi and convert it just to see how it works on a larger scale.

 

[RobG]

You should be good on a LA seating depth wise. I removed my die's expander ball and use a separate Sinclair expander die. Not to size up but to achieve more consistent neck tension. I have read that using the standard die to size up is not the right way to do it; using an expander die is.