Rifle Scopes Finally Arrived-S&B Short Dot Dual CC

[strikeeagle1]

In Aug 2017 I ordered this S&B PM II ShortDot Dual CC MDR-T6 CC 1 cm ccw ST LT MTC, 683 series. Arrived this week !

I built this WC 6.8 SPC II specifically for this scope. It appears to be a hybrid of the Ultrashort and the ShortDot being slightly longer than the
1.1 -4X ShortDot; low profile turrets and an interesting illumination knob. A GDI P-ROM QD zero MOA mount.

 

[Ravenous]

Love the concept of DFP but that thing seems super long. The way it sits on that AR you can barely even get to the charging handle. Pretty interesting with the illumination control. Can they both be lit at the same time?

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^The scope has not been leveled or the proper position of the mount-scope-rail for shooting yet......just window dressing until tomorrow!

 

[madangler1]

I played with one at the NRA convention. For the money, I wasn’t that impressed compared to the ATACR or new VCOG. I felt those scopes produced a better image and were easier to get behind (eye box larger). The dual dot/reticle system is killer though. Let us know how it works while shooting.

 

[madangler1]

The manual is super confusing.
You can either switch on the reticle or the flash dot? And the illumination brightness for either is seperate? I thought the whole point was the flash dot was always on at low mag and then the flash dot turns off but the reticle illumination turns on at mid-high mag when the subtensions become visible just like the Minox?

You just turn the dial to which mode you want: flash dot or reticle. At least that is what I did when I played with it. Strike eagle can say more about it. It was vert cool and easy to use. I just wish they would have used a 34 mm tube. I found it to be no better than the old 1-8x I looked through 5 years ago.

 

[strikeeagle1]

The illumination selection is either Red Dot or Reticle illumination, 1-6 intensities. The illuminated reticle is very bright in daylight so night time will only use lowest setting, unlike the S&B5-25 and 3-20 US.

I leveled the scope today; 90 mm of eye relief.

 

[KimberGuy]

Very cool. Take some reticle pictures if you can.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Not a very good photo but this is the reticle illumination. Just ordered a G-Line digiscope adapter for iPhone, better photos forthcoming.

 

[TAHK]

Look really nice

 

[strikeeagle1]

A few thru the scope reticle photos.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Reticle spec's and scaled schematics.

 

[SAMR]

I played with one at the NRA convention. For the money, I wasn’t that impressed compared to the ATACR or new VCOG. I felt those scopes produced a better image and were easier to get behind (eye box larger). The dual dot/reticle system is killer though. Let us know how it works while shooting.

I kind of feel the same way, I mean I want one but not anywhere close to 4k want. DFP is pretty cool idea to me, this is the first scope I've across. I can imagine being worth considering in 3 gun stages, for example. Does DFP greatly increase cost of manufacture? Maybe a lot of R&D cost?

Agreed, if NF can offer their ATACR 1-8. The price makes it way more appealing, but not sure if it could work in their current housing.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I am trying to learn how to best use this G-line digiscope adapter mounted on a tripod without the rifle for now. It's mfg. in Slovenia of all places, constructed of high quality anodized aluminum with carbon fiber tape on the phone side and various size collet diameters with aluminum housing with fine threads like for camera lenses. Anyone been using one?

 

[srt-4_uk]

I kind of feel the same way, I mean I want one but not anywhere close to 4k want. DFP is pretty cool idea to me, this is the first scope I've across. I can imagine being worth considering in 3 gun stages, for example. Does DFP greatly increase cost of manufacture? Maybe a lot of R&D cost?

Burris XTR2 1.5-8 is dfp. Obviously not in the same ballpark as this but its the only other dfp scope I can think of.

 

[Ravenous]

Burris XTR2 1.5-8 is dfp. Obviously not in the same ballpark as this but its the only other dfp scope I can think of.

Minox has the ZP8 which is DFP and Hensdolt has one coming out as well, which looks extremely similar to the Minox. USO used to make one as well. It's a shame only the the top tier companies are producing them. I personally can't justify $3-4k on an optic for the type of of gun this would be going on.

 

[koshkin]

Burris just announced that their budget RT-8 line will have a DFP option. I am not sure when it will hit the streets, but probably toward the end of the year if their typical release timelines hold.

The need for DFP is a little questionable, although I like the idea of the concept being developed further.

Nightforce has managed to put a very bright dot into a FFP reticle with NX8 and ATACR 1-8x scope.

I am messing with the new Blaser 1-7x28, which is a FFP scope primarily intended for hunters, but I have it on an AR. I do not know if Blaser is interested in the tactical market, but if they put a more AR friendly reticle on it, it will absolutely kick ass.

In terms of optics, this might be the best LPVO I have seen yet and the FFP illuminated reticle is really impressive. It changes size between low power and high power, so it is a big bright dot on low power and small dot on high power. The whole reticle is in FFP. This is easily the best view on 1x of any FFP scope I have seen to date. Expensive though.

ILya

 

[Ravenous]

Burris just announced that their budget RT-8 line will have a DFP option. I am not sure when it will hit the streets, but probably toward the end of the year if their typical release timelines hold.

The need for DFP is a little questionable, although I like the idea of the concept being developed further.

Nightforce has managed to put a very bright dot into a FFP reticle with NX8 and ATACR 1-8x scope.

I am messing with the new Blaser 1-7x28, which is a FFP scope primarily intended for hunters, but I have it on an AR. I do not know if Blaser is interested in the tactical market, but if they put a more AR friendly reticle on it, it will absolutely kick ass.

In terms of optics, this might be the best LPVO I have seen yet and the FFP illuminated reticle is really impressive. It changes size between low power and high power, so it is a big bright dot on low power and small dot on high power. The whole reticle is in FFP. This is easily the best view on 1x of any FFP scope I have seen to date. Expensive though.

ILya

I forgot that Burris announced DFP for their RT-8. That shows that the technology isn't just reserved for $3k+ optics. Will be curious to see how it performs. I'm curious if the DPF helps create a better eye box in a smaller package.

Think Nightforce kind of messed up with making the center dot of their 1-8s so big. No need for that when they also have the outer circle for 1x.

Definitely curious about that Blaser, that's the first I've seen of it. Looks like a nice optic, certainly interested in how that reticle works.

 

[koshkin]

I forgot that Burris announced DFP for their RT-8. That shows that the technology isn't just reserved for $3k+ optics. Will be curious to see how it performs. I'm curious if the DPF helps create a better eye box in a smaller package.

Think Nightforce kind of messed up with making the center dot of their 1-8s so big. No need for that when they also have the outer circle for 1x.

Definitely curious about that Blaser, that's the first I've seen of it. Looks like a nice optic, certainly interested in how that reticle works.

DFP will not help you with eye relief flexibility. It is only there to have an ultra bright center dot without paying IMT for their diffractive reticle.

ILya

 

[strikeeagle1]

Finally got it to the range for the first time. By mid-morning temp nearly 100F, some mirage made it difficult past 100 meters. Used a Hog Mod8 saddle on a tripod, @ 100, 150 and 200 meters; not my best choice for the tripod. The reticle was very easy to read over the targets. Using Rem 115 gr.
I was attempting to hold 1.25 mils @ 150 M and 1.5 mils@ 200 M. It was so hot I did not spend any time using the red dot or dialing the turrets. I had some Hornady SST 120 gr that will have to wait for next time.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Holy Schmidt.

 

[brianf]

I am trying to learn how to best use this G-line digiscope adapter mounted on a tripod without the rifle for now. It's mfg. in Slovenia of all places, constructed of high quality anodized aluminum with carbon fiber tape on the phone side and various size collet diameters with aluminum housing with fine threads like for camera lenses. Anyone been using one?


View attachment 7079578

tried a bunch of phone adaptors, side shot is the best one by far

 

[strikeeagle1]

Shooting off tripod in soft sand out to 250 meters this past weekend.

 

[Vargmat]

I think you need a more stable tri-pod, or work on technique, maybe both. Using a sling, monted on the handguard, wrapped around one of the legs of the tripod has helped me a lot.

 

[strikeeagle1]

The tri-pod is plenty stable , however the soft sandy substrate is not; the ammo is just plain FMJ. I use a sling and its variants when it seems to offer an advantage. On this day with the white target low to the ground at 250 meteres and high heat reflecting off the short grass surface the mirage was making it difficult for me to see a stable target picture.. Here's the Wilson target that came with the barrel using match grade ammo on a benchrest. I am just trying to get the zero correct and rough in the Dope at various distances. I thought the 100 & 150 M target hits were pretty good.

 

[johntorcasio]

Nice!

 

[strikeeagle1]

For the debut of the S&B dual CC at the 2017 shot show, marketing had a photo of the scope covered by a S&B "Tactical" Cover; I had not seen any similar products from S&B so I recently sent a photo of it to Jason @ Eurooptics and he was able to order one in a couple of weeks. Apparently designed for the Bundeswehr to carry the scope-rifle system by the handle. The end caps open. Inner liner has a mesh pouch for lens cleaning supplies or DOPE card. It is nicely made.

 

[Budrichard]

Still waiting for mine. Ordered last April.
I like the Tactical cover.
Did your scope come with the ‘throw lever’?
Thank you.-Richard

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^^Nope......throw lever extra........everything is a la carte with S&B!

 

[Hootiewho]

Love the concept of DFP but that thing seems super long. The way it sits on that AR you can barely even get to the charging handle. Pretty interesting with the illumination control. Can they both be lit at the same time?

Dual CC dot on 1x and illuminated reticle on 8. Neither are on the highest setting. The scope is not much different in length vs the CQBSS.

I’m not going to lie, it is a badass scope. If they had hit the ground with this around CQBSS time, I have no doubt it would have sold well.

I have noticed the xmas tree reticle is much more usable at mid powers like 3-6 vs other LPVO’s I’ve used.

 

[Christia]

@strikeeagle1 any new updates about this scope?... seriously thinking of getting one

 

[Budrichard]

Mine in Pantone finally arrived and is installed on a SIG MCX pistol with a 0 Cant mount.
Cannot find a S&B lever and it’s only in black.
The scope bag is the typical over engineered German piece of kit.
The scope does exactly what I want, illiminates the two optic systems one often sees mounted in various configurations on rifles.
Unfortunately it costs $$$, EuroOptic is now the sole supplier and Cameraland has dropped S&B, but that’s another story.
you can configure the scope adjustments anyway you want.
I had to wait until S&B produced a run of the model and color I wanted.
-Richard

 

[mrtoyz]

@strikeeagle1 any new updates about this scope?... seriously thinking of getting one

What questions do you have?

 

[Christia]

What questions do you have?

Well I will admit first off that I am a HUGE S&B fan and have 4 of their scopes already. I was just hoping the $4390 short dot Dual CC scope plus tax plus Spuhr mount was going to be worth the 5k I will be spending on it. I have read it is the finest LPVO that money can buy at this time. On the flip side you get the NF crowd who are S&B haters and they of course sing a different song. I just held a NF ACTAR 1-8x24 in my hand a few days ago at a local shop. It looked and felt ok and the glass seemed nice but it did NOT make me want to jump ship from S&B. I was just hoping to hear from some others who have already purchased the short dot Dual CC that the juice was worth the squeeze to them and that they have no regrets. I also plan to get the S&B 5-45x56 soon but that is another situation and story.

 

[dms416]

Well I will admit first off that I am a HUGE S&B fan and have 4 of their scopes already. I was just hoping the $4390 short dot Dual CC scope plus tax plus Spuhr mount was going to be worth the 5k I will be spending on it. I have read it is the finest LPVO that money can buy at this time. On the flip side you get the NF crowd who are S&B haters and they of course sing a different song. I just held a NF ACTAR 1-8x24 in my hand a few days ago at a local shop. It looked and felt ok and the glass seemed nice but it did NOT make me want to jump ship from S&B. I was just hoping to hear from some others who have already purchased the short dot Dual CC that the juice was worth the squeeze to them and that they have no regrets. I also plan to get the S&B 5-45x56 soon but that is another situation and story.

I love the Dual CC. I have no kids, no debt, no major financial obligations; I bought mine one sale, with another code/discount on top and it still stung like hell to pay that money for an LPVO on principle. Functionally, I think its arguably the best. Is it $2,000 better than say the SFP 1-8x24mm?....hell no.
At the end of the day, it's still a 1-8x. A 4-16x42 ATACR with an ACRO piggyback or a Mk5hd with an RMR will do a hell of a lot more for a hell of a lot less.

 

[mrtoyz]

My only gripe is that it’s a BIG scope
Glass typical S&B. It is brighter than the NF ATACR. IMO the reticle is superior as well. Center dot in the NF is too big IMO.
In my experience most haven’t even looked through an S&B dual, yet many seem to have formed some strong opinions. Especially those that have bought competing scopes.

 

[Christia]

I love the Dual CC. I have no kids, no debt, no major financial obligations; I bought mine one sale, with another code/discount on top and it still stung like hell to pay that money for an LPVO on principle. Functionally, I think its arguably the best. Is it $2,000 better than say the SFP 1-8x24mm?....hell no.
At the end of the day, it's still a 1-8x. A 4-16x42 ATACR with an ACRO piggyback or a Mk5hd with an RMR will do a hell of a lot more for a hell of a lot less.

At the end of the day the "is it $2000 better" is not even a factor to me. Any improvement in performance and quality are much more important to me than trying to get the most bang for a buck. MY two favorite loves in the firearms hobby are HK and Schmidt Bender... so yeah my bank account has been abused for a long time.

 

[mrtoyz]

At the end of the day the "is it $2000 better" is not even a factor to me. Any improvement in performance and quality are much more important to me than trying to get the most bang for a buck. MY two favorite loves in the firearms hobby are HK and Schmidt Bender... so yeah my bank account has been abused for a long time.

Then I’d say, git r dun. You won’t regret it

 

[Christia]

My only gripe is that it’s a BIG scope
Glass typical S&B. It is brighter than the NF ATACR. IMO the reticle is superior as well. Center dot in the NF is too big IMO.
In my experience most haven’t even looked through an S&B dual, yet many seem to have formed some strong opinions. Especially those that have bought competing scopes.

Yeah I've noticed that quite often lately by those who purchased less expensive products. Human nature seldom changes when it comes to things like this it would seem. I also love it when talking about high power scopes that if their brand doesn't have as much magnification they tell you that you don't need it and won't ever use it. I'll be the one to decide if I need it or not. Yes I know what happens the more you magnify things while shooting... but I also know my eyes are getting older by the minute and I have yet to complain about having too much magnification available to me. I seriously doubt those words will ever come out of my mouth but YMMV.

 

[mrtoyz]

@Christia
Here’s one for sale on the Hide right now.
S&B Dual for sale

 

[Christia]

@Christia
Here’s one for sale on the Hide right now.
S&B Dual for sale

I saw that... but he doesn't say what the actual model number is so it is impossible to know the other characteristics of the scope like CCW or CW, etc. Also the price is only $390 less than brand new. With that small of a difference I might as well buy a brand new one direct and not have to worry about that large of a purchase through an individual.

 

[Christia]

Then buy it. The MSRP on priciple is just disgusting...but then again so is $6k-8k for a 416 upper so...not a new concept to you either.

So here ya go:
View attachment 7493608

This won't be going on a HK416... never purchased any of those. It will be going on one of my two B&T APC223's. It will be compared for preference to an Elcan 1.5x6 SpecterDR . The winner will get a twin brother on the other APC223 and the loser will find a home on another rifle... probably a HK G36C or Steyr AUG A3 NATO.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Scope cover is like a soft Pelican case, fairly bulky. Fake news, scope cover ~$125, not "included" with my scope purchase, which required almost 2 years of waiting from its debut in 2017 ShotShow. Scope cover, GDI mount, Tenebraex covers, S&B throw lever.....add another 1 large to tax & dealer prep costs.

 

[Budrichard]

“dealer prep costs.”?

I have the scope plus scope cover but to be perfectly honest, when attached it looks like a Monkey ......... a Football or a Solution in search of a Problem.
No way your going to deploy with that thing attached and spend the time unhooking all the clips and covers getting your rifle/scope into action!

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^^" tax & dealer prep costs".....is the sticker price add-ons the car dealer informs you of / suggests just as thought you knew the final purchase price to disclose to the wife.........not much different with this hobby. An inexpensive example shown not including taxes!

 

[Amac305]

A previous post had mentioned the USO. Just for those interested, the DFP model is the SR-8C. It has a few different reticles.

I’m not a USO fanboy by any means and know they have had QC issues, but the older SR-8Cs seem to be pretty stout based on the research I did. I see a few pop up here and there for around 12-1400 second hand, which, to me seems like a solid scope for a good deal. Not sure if they can still be sourced new.

I have mine on an AR10, and mine has the Horus 50 reticle, which makes it great (for me at least) for hunting and moderate range work out to about 6-700. I’m sure someone with better eyes could take it further, but if your intended plan was to consistent go out past that range I think choosing the right tool for the job (more mag) would be a smarter use of funds.

ill get you a reticle pic for reference at some point today.

 

[madangler1]

How is the eyebox on the short dot dual? I looked at an early model a year ago and was not impressed

 

[mrtoyz]

How is the eyebox on the short dot dual? I looked at an early model a year ago and was not impressed

IMO it’s great. As good as anything I can think of

 

[madangler1]

Compared to say the Kahles K16i?

 

[Brackeen22]

Great looking scope and rifle. However I have a question? I’ve been shooting 6.8 for a long time and I don’t even have a gun set up that cost that much but why would you shoot remington fmj. It is absolutely the worst 6.8 ammo I’ve ever shot and why try and save money there of all places?

 

[mrtoyz]

Compared to say the Kahles K16i?

That’s a tall order. However the glass, ffp, and reticle don’t compare IMO.