Fireforming a 308

[Mudflap621]

So I’m getting ready to start some load development for a 308 hunting rifle. I’ve got a bunch of 165gr partitions that I’m hoping to find a load with.

The brass is once fired (PPU) I inherited but it’s not from my gun and after inspection there is quite a bit of variance in shoulder location. It’s all same headstamp.

My gut is telling me to locate some cheap projectiles to run them through my rifle before I start slinging $1 projectiles down range.

This rifle will not be doing anything more than 3-400 yards, if that, but I’d rather not burn through the partitions if I’m going to see inconsistent results.

looking for input from the more knowledgable on which direction to go. I’ve got some various smk and HPBT but it would be a mix match to fireform 100 peices of brass. I was also thinking maybe buy something that I could use to fireform with but also find a plinking load to use for practice.

So should I just load and start development or would fireforming first be more beneficial. Thanks in advance.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

my gut is saying get better brass...

barring that, full length size and trim should eat up most of the variations

 

[Mudflap621]

my gut is saying get better brass...

barring that, full length size and trim should eat up most of the variations

Thanks you guys are great at spending my money lol.

I ran 100 peices through my die and mandrel and my concern is the shoulders on some were previously bumped farther my chamber. I’m not against buying new but I’d also hate to see 5-600 peices of brass not get used.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Put out a request for some once fired Federal Gold Metal brass. You can get some for $0.25 a piece. It's good stuff.

 

[Supersubes]

Thanks you guys are great at spending my money lol.

I ran 100 peices through my die and mandrel and my concern is the shoulders on some were previously bumped farther my chamber. I’m not against buying new but I’d also hate to see 5-600 peices of brass not get used.

You dont have to use every piece. Segregate a small quantity that are as consistent as you like, and use those for developement.

 

[Mudflap621]

So if I was picked up once fired wouldn’t I be in same boat as I am here with something that’s not fireformed to my chamber and possibly same inconsistency?

For example say there is .10 thousandths variance in shoulder location per my comparator is that something to be worried about when working the load.

I could understand working straight off a fresh batch of Lapua might be a little different.

 

[spife7980]

So if I was picked up once fired wouldn’t I be in same boat as I am here with something that’s not fireformed to my chamber and possibly same inconsistency?

For example say there is .10 thousandths variance in shoulder location per my comparator is that something to be worried about when working the load.

I could understand working straight off a fresh batch of Lapua might be a little different.

Don’t buy shit brass and you don’t have shit brass problems.
Get some thing new. Getting something quality is even better.
Lapua is a cheap investment for not pulling your hair out over these silly problems.

 

[Mudflap621]

I’m not pulling my hair out just yet but wanted to run it by the more knowledable folks before I do go bald and potentially waste my time and all my projos. I didn’t buy it but didn’t wanna waste it either. I appreciate the input.

 

[Supersubes]

If you want to shoot range pick-up brass, thats fine, but that means you have to accept the mixed bag that comes along with it. Like spife, I only use new premium brass. Again, segregate it for load developement and march on.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Buy good brass and your problems will be easier to figure out

 

[B y r o n]

Try and chamber one of the fired cases in the rifle you intend to use. You're looking for one that won't let the bolt close. Ensure that it is below maximum case length so that you know it was the shoulder preventing it from chambering and not that the case was to long. What you want to do next is run it through your sizer so start with the die set long so you don't bump the shoulder back to far on the first try. Try chambering again and drop the die slightly and repeat. Stop once you have it set and the case chambers. Now measure the case length at the shoulder with an appropriate tool. Use this measurement to sort out cases that are shorter and use the longer ones. Size and load the longer ones and you should be good.

If they are truly once fired you should be good but if there is any doubt anneal first.

 

[smoothy8500]

The brass is once fired (PPU) I inherited

This rifle will not be doing anything more than 3-400 yards

So should I just load and start development?

It's a hunting rifle going 3-400yds. Just Full-Length resize and develop your load...PPU is "good enough".

 

[MarshallDodge]

Don’t buy shit brass and you don’t have shit brass problems.
Get some thing new. Getting something quality is even better.
Lapua is a cheap investment for not pulling your hair out over these silly problems.

This may sound harsh but the man has a good point. The probability of having issues with that brass are high.

I would separate the PPU brass out by weight and headspace variance, then anneal it and size it, before loading it.

 

[VargmatII]

Like others have stated, you are over working this by a mile.

Use PPU brass for what it is, full lenght size it, trim it and call it good.
No need to fireform or anything, hell its a .308 not a custom tightneck super tricky wild cat that needs too much to get going.

If all else fails, get Lapua or even Norma brass to use for precision work.

 

[Mudflap621]

Thanks guys I’m gonna worth through some more brass as stated and get a more consistent batch to do a workup. Like stated this isn’t going to be a precision gun I’ll be happy with 1/4 moa lol jk.

I’m looking into an annealer it’ll most likely be my next big purchase but it’s not in the cards in the short term.

 

[Supersubes]

People who leave their brass on the ground probably dont have multiple firings on it. Id bet your pickups are once fired. I wouldnt worry about the annealer for the moment. Good tool to have down the line though.

 

[spife7980]

People who leave their brass on the ground probably dont have multiple firings on it. Id bet your pickups are once fired. I wouldnt worry about the annealer for the moment. Good tool to have down the line though.

Id say that depends on what and where at. Cheap 223 sure, lapua x47 no.
I would assume its damn near worn out in most places I find someone has left brass on the ground.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I've shot under a half MOA this past weekend at 300 yards with my 308 using some Federal range brass I came across. I did separate it by weight, but otherwise for range brass I couldn't have expected any better groups. Sort it by weight, size it and go hunting.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Nosler Partitions are not going to give super groups either. 1 MOA should about cover it

 

[Supersubes]

Id say that depends on what and where at. Cheap 223 sure, lapua x47 no.
I would assume its damn near worn out in most places I find someone has left brass on the ground.

Agreed, and since this is PPU im guessing its once fired.

 

[918v]

If you want to kill the variables associated with range brass, then size it and anneal after. You’ll have the equivalent of factory fresh brass.

 

[spife7980]

Agreed, and since this is PPU im guessing its once fired.

Oh, yeah the ppu stuff he said he inherited I would assume to all be the same out of the same uncles rifle or something.

But he also asked "So if I was picked up once fired wouldn’t I" which I assumed was getting it from some unknown source.

 

[Mudflap621]

Oh, yeah the ppu stuff he said he inherited I would assume to all be the same out of the same uncles rifle or something.

But he also asked "So if I was picked up once fired wouldn’t I" which I assumed was getting it from some unknown source.

Thanks guys I have pretty reputable source stating once fired by him. I posed that question about “picking”up once fired in classifieds as that there are no guarantees on the consistency of that brass either.

I will be happy with 1moa with the partitions I’m more interested in them putting a hurting on whatever I’m shooting around 300 an in.

Im gonna do as suggested by a few and resize than measure and get a consistent batch to work up a load with them. If I get 2-3 loads outa the brass this lot will last me quite a few years.

 

[Skg_Mre_Lght]

3-400 yards?

Pffft.... Size, trim, load, bang.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When a case fires, it expands like a balloon to fit the interior of the chamber long before it reaches peak pressure. Pretty much, by the time its bullet is entering the rifling, pressure is getting up to operating range, and the case is fully conformed to fit interior of the chamber. It continues to expand further, expanding the chamber itself somewhat.

I think it's basically pointless to fireform when the regular firing process does precisely the same thing, deleting one firing cycle from the overall case life. I won't even talk about the added case hardening.

I do my full case prep after the first firing. Whatever's gonna happen already has, and I have a better baseline from which to do neck trimming, etc.

I once asked G. David Tubb on a phone call about this, and he said he wants his cartridge to lay somewhat loosely in the bottom of the chamber until firing commences. It's what I've done ever since. At the time I was shooting 1000yd F Open, and did so for several years thereafter. No, I didn't win; I'm not a winner level marksman.

I will say, however, that cases should always be f/l resized when they come from the factory. Some of those things won't even fit into the chamber.

I have used IMI, PPU, Rem, and Win brass, even Malaysian MilSpec, and Tulammo Boxer primed steel; but I am standardizing on Starline.

These days, finding brass at all is a more critical problem than brands or fireforming.

Folks spend extra money on premium brass, and they get what they pay for. But getting good brass is as much about the prep work done, and who's paying who to do it. Even Lapua and Norma are factory brass. Great stuff, but I like to do my own prep.

Greg

 

[opeagle]

Full Length size it all, trim it and then see what you have.

 

[Mudflap621]

Out of the hundred I sized I segregated about half out that are within 2 thousandths of my shoulder bump. The other half are up to 10 thousandths short. These were already sized before I got them but upon measuring some they needed to get bumped a bit more to fit my chamber. The ones within cpl thou are gonna be used to work up a load.