Sidearms & Scatterguns First 1911

[TheBigCountry]

Looking into buying my first 1911. Always wanted one, they just are sweet handguns to me. I've handled higher end ones, and have shot a Ed Brown Cobra Carry but the price on those seems ridiculous. Two brands that I have looked at heavily are Springfield Armory and STI. Kimber has crossed my mind as well and I have handled one before just read too many horror stories of their QC. What do you all recommend if someone was looking into their first 1911?

 

[R Moran]

Colt

 

[abizdafuzz]

Springfield TRP or Range Officer if you need one for less than the TRP.

 

[smokin.338]

Sig

 

[SHWILL]

I would also look at Dan Wesson.

 

[BurnOut]

I'll second the Dan Wesson. That said, as smokin.338 pointed out, the Sigs are a lot of 1911 for the money.

I sure do like the Wessons, though....

 

[TGuthrie]

Third for Dan Wesson. Sure do love mine. Wish I could shoot it more often.

 

[Delta4-3]

I traded my Wilson Combat CQB for 3 sig 1911's. One commander length, and two gov. It was the best gun trade I ever made. The Sig 1911's are a great gun for the money, and this is coming from a guy that generally doesn't care for sig pistols.

 

[5RWill]

Depends on the budget really? How much are you willing to spend? My go to choice for the money disregarding budget would probably be Dan Wesson. They kind of have everything i'm looking for in a 1500$ range for a 1911. If i'm going to spend the type of money it takes to get a nighthawk or Wilson i'm going to just go get a caspian slide & frame and buy the parts and have it built my way.

That's good to hear Delta, i'm similar in that i don't really like SIGs but if their 1911s are pretty good it might be worth a try.

Bare budget i would go RIA
Medium STI, Springfield,
Medium-high Dan wesson, some springfields, Colt
High Nighthawk, Wilson, Ed Brown, etc.

It's to note Dan Wesson's have gone up tremendously in the past couple of years. They went from being a great gun for the money to a great gun that cost a decent penny now. When i was looking for a duty coat Valor i couldn't find one under 1600$ now i'm not sure if you can find them under 1800$. There is always the Heritage which can be had for 1000-1200.

 

[R Moran]

Lot of good info on 1911 selection over at 10-8Performance and Modern Service Weapon

There's a whole lot that goes into selecting a 1911, from cost, to use, to expected durability.

Bob

 

[plong]

I traded my Wilson Combat CQB for 3 sig 1911's. One commander length, and two gov. It was the best gun trade I ever made. The Sig 1911's are a great gun for the money, and this is coming from a guy that generally doesn't care for sig pistols.

+1 to the above. Best all-around value in a sub $1K 1911 (IMHO, of course !)

 

[slm9s]

If you have big hands, at least take a look at a double stack. I have a Para 14-45 limited that is VERY nice for the $.

 

[Direct Assault]

Colt has my vote. I've shot Springfields and kimbers. Bought a kimber and later sold it for a colt rail gun. And actually I really don't care. I freaking love 1911s. I wish I could buy one of each. I'd really like a nighthawk

 

[Big ED]

I bought a Springfield and love it very accurate, Springfield also has excellent customer service, there are many high end 1911's from $700-$1,200 leaving out the expensive customs. Sig's, Colt's, Kimber's, Remington's, Dan's, S&W. Here is a video review of my Springfield 1911.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pGPDLONWl0&list=UUj40OmfuZboLIZYesETWxEQ

 

[Philotimos]

I'm in sort of the same dilemna. Difference I'm down to 2. An STI 4.0 SS or a Colt Special Combat. I was in all the way with the STI since I had decided in 9mm but a friend of mine needs money and is offering his Special Combat, hardly used for $1500, less than the STI ($1650). I have fired the Colt before and an STI in .40. The STI was more accurate with less recoil so I'm thinking it will be even more accurate with even less recoil in 9mm. Then you have the "COLT" which in all intents and purposes speaks for itself, SPECIAL COMBAT GOV to top that. I will be using it for everything including local matches. Apologize to the OP for throwing your thread slightly off track.

 

[MikeeBooshay]

Your first 1911 - ought to be a .45, yes the other calibers are fine and all, but hey, a 1911 IS the .45.

If all you are doing is shooting it, look at the Colt Gold Cup. Good trigger, sights etc, and it's a Colt, holds it value well. Around here you can pick a new stainless one up for a little over $1050 if you are patient. A handful of aftermarket mags, holster and mag pouch, you are GTG. It will reliably shoot about whatever cheap rounds you feed it, the trigger is sweet, you'll find yourself shooting clays with it at 50 yards in no time.

 

[R Moran]

It should be a .45, because the gun was designed around that cartridge. Same as it should be a single stack, 5" w/ bushing gun.
1911 SME such as Vickers, Yam & Hackathorn agree on that.

 

[Rob01]

Looking into buying my first 1911. Always wanted one, they just are sweet handguns to me. I've handled higher end ones, and have shot a Ed Brown Cobra Carry but the price on those seems ridiculous. Two brands that I have looked at heavily are Springfield Armory and STI. Kimber has crossed my mind as well and I have handled one before just read too many horror stories of their QC. What do you all recommend if someone was looking into their first 1911?

Dawson is selling demo STI Trojan .45 for $989 right now.
Demo STI Trojan 45 ACP 5" Free Dawson Tool-Less Guide Rod Installed We used this gun to test and prototype parts. Like NEW shot very little, Shipping Free Detail Page

 

[Raymond Johnson]

I know this is going to rock the boat..... BUT, take a look at the Taurus PT-1911's..... I have 2 in 45ACP, one blue and the other Stainless, one Stainless 9mm and 2, 9mm blued and a blue 38 Super.... I just picked up a Stainless 9mm with 9 Dawson mags for 650.00... To me... for the money, there the best money spent on a 1911 type..... Check'em out....AND... you can get the "pimped out" (deep dark blue and GOLD hammer, trigger, slide release) 38 super from CDNN for less than 400.00...........

 

[TheBigCountry]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. A few mentioned Sig and always been a fan. I think I have shot a Sig 1911 before, and my girlfriend owns a sig 238.

I am gonna take a look at the local GS and handle a few 1911's.

How does a 1911 stack up against a fnx 45? I bought one on impulse and have it sitting in its box. Haven't had a chance to shoot it and have been thinking of selling it...

 

[Pester]

I haven't shot the fnx but many others.

If I were in your shoes I would get the Colt or Springfield and just go shoot it. As you shoot it more and more you will find what you like about it and dont like. At that point send it to a good smith and tell them those likes and dislikes so they can build it for you. I went through a number of 1911's and two of my favorites(for different reasons) are a 12 yr old Kimber and a 2 yr old Nighthawk.

I would argue that spending a ton of money on something you might like means you are spending a lot of money on something you might not like. Also, look on the for sale section here and other places to find a good used one. If the base is good competent smiths can work magic later on.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. A few mentioned Sig and always been a fan. I think I have shot a Sig 1911 before, and my girlfriend owns a sig 238.

I am gonna take a look at the local GS and handle a few 1911's.

How does a 1911 stack up against a fnx 45? I bought one on impulse and have it sitting in its box. Haven't had a chance to shoot it and have been thinking of selling it...

 

[Hookturnr]

I know a bunch of folks knock Kimber for this/that. I would suggest you don't rule them out. I have a crimson carry Pro 4" that I've run 5000+ rounds through without a hiccup. I have changed the MSH out for an ed brown stainless chainlink model, but it was only for comfort while carrying. Other than that, it's been a great gun and is my EDC.

 

[charvey9]

If you aren't looking to break the bank, the remington R1's are a nice buy.

 

[Metal Gear]

I know a bunch of folks knock Kimber for this/that. I would suggest you don't rule them out. I have a crimson carry Pro 4" that I've run 5000+ rounds through without a hiccup. I have changed the MSH out for an ed brown stainless chainlink model, but it was only for comfort while carrying. Other than that, it's been a great gun and is my EDC.

I second this. I am not sure where all the negative talk for Kimbers is even coming from, I am starting to think most of it is made up. Kimber produces more 1911's than any other company so I guess there is bound to be a lemon here or there, but it seems the few bad ones that do come out of production are the ones that constantly get talked about. Besides, Kimber has fantastic customer service and will take care of an issue if you do have one.

I own a full size Custom II and it has been a fantastic shooter without any reliability issues at all. I also know a few friends that have Kimber's and they all have nothing but good things to say about their pistols. I have over 3k rounds in mine and currently on its 3rd recoil spring, the only issues I ever had were all in the first couple hundred rounds, but once I put a few boxes through it and broke it in it was good to go. It has been through a pistol course and a USPSA match and ran great in both. Don't count them out, they are great 1911's for the money and have a flavor for anyone's taste.

 

[R Moran]

The negative Kimber feedback comes from numerous issues with poor quality mim components, poor QC assembly and a poor firing pin safety.
Keep in mind, that for many 3-5K is an insignificant round count. As LAV pointed out in a 1911 operator class, many 1911's will be "reliable" for 5K +/-, but eventually there poor construction or skipped manufacturing steps will catch up with them. Most manufacturers bet on the average person never shooting that much thru a gun. But for some, whether its their organization/unit, competition . etc 5K is just a start. It's after that, when things get to be problematic.
The Series Kimber has been found to be sensitive to timeing issues, whereas the hammer can fall, but the pin is still locked.
And, as with just about every gun review, it only takes a few bad examples to ruin the brand.

With good quality, known brands, like Springfield Armory & Colt out there, for not a lot of money, I don't see the point in buying a RIA/Taurus/Citadel/ whatever else is out there

I just bought a used, about 95% Colt old roll mark '91 for $556+shipping and FFL. NIB SA mil-spec can be found for $600+/-...that's not a big step up.
A new Colt '91, XSE or Rail gun are right around 1K.

I owned an early Kimber, it came from an Albuquerque SWAT officer & had been shot a lot, I had it tuned up, it was a great gun, as most early series 1 Kimbers are. A friend owned two, until he stepped up to Wilsons. The new guns do not enjoy the same rep amongst hard use 1911 guys. A co-worker has a Taurus, I am not impressed. poor fit and operation of parts, heavy trigger, silly lock on the hammer...any money saved on it's purchase would be spent at my 1911 smith getting it "fixed".

I've read more then one thread around here, where people are admonished to not play this game(precision/long range) if they can't afford it.
How many times are new shooters advised to save a few dollars more to buy a better scope? or any other piece of equipment?

If someone posted that they had fired over 5K of 338 with a Barska scope on top, who would even believe them? And if they did, it would be dismissed as an anomaly.

I see 1911's the same way.
If I were in the market for a new 1911, I'd start looking at Colt, SA, S&W, and then on up to the 'semi-custom" guns like SA custom shop, Wilson, etc.


Bob

 

[rpk762]

I will tell you where mine came from. I have a stainless target II in 10mm.

The 10mm has plenty of power so using an original firing pin block would tame down the slide speed. The newer style has a very large radius at the bottom to make racking the slide easier. In the 10mm going to the old style slowed the slide enough to make the brass land 10 to 15 feet closer.

Then the real problem the extractor had a very sharp bottom edge. This edge would catch the brass during loading and cause a failure to load. It did not work it self out. I had to take a stone to that edge.

The barrel needs to be clean. This is not their fault at all I just wanted to bring it up. To keep top accuracy I need punch the bore every five rounds.

 

[Metal Gear]

R Moran, you make good points and I will not argue with you as I agree that 3-5k is not a significant amount. I just wanted to state my experience with the Kimber and how it has performed for me, which has been great. Time will tell how it holds up as I plan on putting a magwell on it and using it more often in USPSA and just general range day practice.

As far as the MIM parts goes, I am aware that it would be nice to avoid or replace them when possible, but from my knowledge and from what I was told by a smith that works on them, is that MIM parts that are bad will typically fail within the first 1000 rounds. I am not defending MIM parts by any means and actually do hope to replace them all on mine in the future, but again I have had no problems with it thus far. It is also to my understanding that all your mid tier 1911 manufacturers like SA, S&W, Kimber, Colt, use MIM parts.

With all that said, I have been recently looking at a Dan Wesson Specialist, and have been trying to gather information on them to see if it is worth the money, or if I should save up a bit more and go for something like a Les Baer...

 

[R Moran]

It's not that MIM is bad, it's that bad MIM is bad, just like bad casting or forging. Kimber had a run of bad parts that were failing quickly, that may have been resolved. Most of them use MIM parts. In some applications it's not an issue, other places, it may be. Colt uses a forging for the slide stop, a critical part, others, including Kimber use a cast or MIM part.

3K is a good start, and for many, it may be all they want, need or care for. Me, if theres even a remote chance I'll carry it,put bed side, shoot zombies, whatever, I want the gun to be as reliable and durable as possible.

And, just like with a Bushmaster AR, not everyone off the line is a complete POS, but enough of them have had bad reports to give me pause.

Bob

 

[5RWill]

Colt Reliability Out of the Box? | Modern Service Weapons

Decent post on Colt's reliability as an out of the box 1911.

 

[KTDLS7]

Lot of good info on 1911 selection over at 10-8Performance and Modern Service Weapon

There's a whole lot that goes into selecting a 1911, from cost, to use, to expected durability.

Bob

^ ^ ^ This ^ ^ ^

There is some excellent information Hilton has compiled. I was fortunate to attend one of his 1911 maintenance classes - he knows 1911s in and out. Go to 10-8performance.com, click on 1911, then click "Choosing a 1911 for Duty Use", and "1911 User's Guide". A wealth of information!

BTW, I have large hands, and a single stack is not a problem.

 

[R Moran]

I attended his 1911 operator course that he did with Ken Hackathorn.

The issue I see with certain double stack guns, is the length of the mag is constrained or dictated by the length of the original grip. Lifting that many .45 cartridges takes some effort, and usually the spring is compromised to make everything fit the pre determined length.

that and I saw a Para fail so miserably in a SWAT operator course, the cadre threatened the user with dismissal.

Bob

 

[5RWill]

^ ^ ^ This ^ ^ ^

There is some excellent information Hilton has compiled. I was fortunate to attend one of his 1911 maintenance classes - he knows 1911s in and out. Go to 10-8performance.com, click on 1911, then click "Choosing a 1911 for Duty Use", and "1911 User's Guide". A wealth of information!

BTW, I have large hands, and a single stack is not a problem.

Yeah he writes for MSW's that i posted above. Though i was sad to hear him departing from 1911s. Though it is what it is.

 

[Gil P.]

I bought a Springfield and love it very accurate, Springfield also has excellent customer service, there are many high end 1911's from $700-$1,200 leaving out the expensive customs. Sig's, Colt's, Kimber's, Remington's, Dan's, S&W. Here is a video review of my Springfield 1911.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pGPDLONWl0&list=UUj40OmfuZboLIZYesETWxEQ

Did anyone else notice he's pointing at his left hand and it looks like his finger is on the trigger?
Anyway, I say Springfield is a good choice for not too much money; they are also "series 70" style pistols. I dont know if that was a deal breaker for you or not, most people dont like the firing pin block on the series 80 style.

 

[Big ED]

Did anyone else notice he's pointing at his left hand and it looks like his finger is on the trigger?
Anyway, I say Springfield is a good choice for not too much money; they are also "series 70" style pistols. I dont know if that was a deal breaker for you or not, most people dont like the firing pin block on the series 80 style.

Good point I should pay more attention to that, I shoot pistols about once aweek, in a sand pit by myself so I usually have a finger on the trigger since I'm shooting and not just handle pistols.

 

[Gil P.]

Good point I should pay more attention to that, I shoot pistols about once aweek, in a sand pit by myself so I usually have a finger on the trigger since I'm shooting and not just handle pistols.

Is that you? Definitely be careful; a friend of mine just shot through the webbing in his hand between his index and middle finger, another tenth of an inch either way and he would have lost one. He did hit an artery though (I didnt know there was one there) and was passing out before the ambulance got to his house.

To the original poster ajv35xx; you havent told us how much you would like to spend on a 1911. Im sure the good people on this site will be better able to help you if you could give all an idea on how much youre willing to spend.

 

[hdspeed]

I would recommend a Kimber... I have a Custom II that I had modified and put meprolite night sights on it and I love mine..... The first 500 rounds the gun kicks like a mule but after that real sweet... Won in an NRA dinner......

 

[BurnOut]

With all that said, I have been recently looking at a Dan Wesson Specialist, and have been trying to gather information on them to see if it is worth the money, or if I should save up a bit more and go for something like a Les Baer...

As far as I can tell, the Specialist is essentially a DW Valor with a light rail, a flared mag well, and a lower price. Why the Valor is more expensive is a mystery to me.

Having shot a Valor, I have to say that they're very nice pistols; very well made, very accurate, and VERY smooth shooting.

 

[Unknown]

Did anyone else notice he's pointing at his left hand and it looks like his finger is on the trigger?
Anyway, I say Springfield is a good choice for not too much money; they are also "series 70" style pistols. I dont know if that was a deal breaker for you or not, most people dont like the firing pin block on the series 80 style.

I couldn't watch the video as within 30 seconds of the start, the narrator took two hands to draw his pistol out of his holster, and then promptly brought the muzzle directly across his left forearm. I figured that I would just continue to cringe, so I saved myself the time.

 

[TheBigCountry]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Quick couple of questions for you guys that maybe you can help me with.

Why is it a lot of the 1911's are sporting rails nowadays?

Also, is their any sanity to going custom? Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, and Nighthawk make some really attractive pistols. The price though, what does it get you? Is it like getting a full custom rifle rather then a mass produced pistol?

 

[bigwatchpilot]

I understand where you are coming from and asked the same question and looked at every gun out there. My buddies were all buying Nighthawk, Ed Brown, and Wilson. That being said...I picked up a Dan Wesson Valor V-Bob, best decision from ME. Fit my budget and I am really happy with the performance. My buddies are now picking up Dan Wesson's now after shooting mine.

 

[Unknown]

There are plenty of decent 1911's that would serve 90% of 1911 owners very well. The few 1911 owners who shoot regularly, and go through a thousand rounds each month (or more) would eventually wear out parts on most of the 1911's being sold. But those people know who they are, and rather than buying a 1911 that would be perfectly serviceable for 10,000 rounds or so, they invest in high end pistols that they expect to last for 30,000 rounds or more. Of course, even many of those pistols will need some basic parts replaced from time to time, but the frame and slide will still be in good enough shape to make replacing those parts cost effective.

Think of it like hauling wood with a pickup. If you have a half ton pickup, you can probably haul a little more wood than that a number of times without any issue. But if selling and hauling wood is your living, you know that eventually, you will wear out springs, suspension parts and other things. Those who make their living selling and hauling wood, usually buy one ton or bigger trucks once, rather than buying 3-4 of the half ton trucks.

Therefore, my suggestion is to evaluate how many rounds you expect to be putting through your pistol. If yours will be a "carry it alot, shoot it seldom" pistol, then a cheaper one will probably serve you well enough, once you get it running reliably. Otherwise, I would suggest buying a better quality pistol.

 

[Junior's 12 Valve]

Springfield Armory, Colt, older Kimbers, Dan Wesson, and Les Baer.

Check out 1911forum as well for more info.

 

[mike.h.]

TRP, full rail if you can find one.

 

[R Moran]

1911's have rails for the same reason newer service/duty type pistols have rails....so you can out a light on it.

I think most 1911 enthusiasts would call a Wilson, Ed Brown or Nighthawk a "semi-custom".

I suppose it's much like choosing a precision rifle.

much of it is cosmetic though...not diminishing the craftsman's work, but if there is a real advantage of hand cut checkering to machine, I don't know. Handfiting magwells, beavertails, etc.

You could go full custome and give a guy like Dave Sams 3K and wait a year, but have input on every single part.

I still think a Colt and SA is a nice balance point of a good range & duty type gun, with mostly quality parts and assembly, w/o getting crazy. You have a good base to build and tweak later down the road also.

Don't get sucked into features for less money down the road...what's important are quality parts and assembly...what good is a "beavertail" if it's fit poorly, and of poor design?


Bob

 

[leadbullet]

I am a glock guy but my Sig scorpion carry is a real pleasure to shoot. With over 6000 rds of mixed lead and jacketed reloads it hasn't failed once. Just like my glocks but better looking.
cheers

 

[N0mad]

+1 Dan Wesson - My 2002 Dan Wesson Patriot

 

[N0mad]

I am a glock guy but my Sig scorpion carry is a real pleasure to shoot.
cheers

Sig's and Glock's all good... In 1986 I was at the Gun Show in Dallas, TX held at Market Hall a dealer had just received a shipment of NIB Sig P220's made in West Germany which had the new american side button release $395.00... I was a lot younger then and that was a lot of money for me but I went to the ATM got the cash and bought it anyway and still have it almost 30 years now.

 

[bobo]

Check out the colt wiley clapp govt and commander. Very nice guns for the money and a great base if u ever want to spiff em up a bit

 

[atomic41]

If you have big hands, at least take a look at a double stack. I have a Para 14-45 limited that is VERY nice for the $.

A buddy bought a Para 1911 recently. I've shot it twice and I'm seriously impressed with that gun for the cost. I don't remember which model it is exactly but it was a single stack. I'm thinking of one for my next purchase.