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First AR
- Thread starter Tony1320
- Start date
The AI of AR you say?
Look no further than JP LRP. If you want slightly more affordable, go Seekins...
Look no further than JP LRP. If you want slightly more affordable, go Seekins...
if cost is not an issue I would go JP as well.
My personal preference, if I could only have 1, would be the Knight's Armament (KAC) SR-15 E3 Mod 2 M-LOK 5.56 16'' . As mentioned above, you can't go wrong with JP, either.
Knights SR-15 or JP if you want the full Gucci, top tier setup with well known makers.
I’ll add some clarification.
If I wanted a gun I was most willing to bet my life on, it would be the SR-15.
If I wanted a top tier, outstanding race/fun/competition gun, it would be a JP.
If I wanted a gun I would bet my life on, without some of the super niche features, that left more money available to buy appropriate supporting accessories and gear, it would be a BCM.
If I wanted a gun I was most willing to bet my life on, it would be the SR-15.
If I wanted a top tier, outstanding race/fun/competition gun, it would be a JP.
If I wanted a gun I would bet my life on, without some of the super niche features, that left more money available to buy appropriate supporting accessories and gear, it would be a BCM.
Daniel Defense MK18. it's affordable and reliable. I'd totally get one if i don't live in commiefornia.
I have a couple JPs, and I absolutely love them. With that being said, I did a trigger job on a friends S+W a couple months ago, and i was extremely impressed with the quality of the parts in their trigger group. I might get flamed for posting this, but I’ve done lots of AR triggers, and that was the ONLY factory trigger that has ever impressed me. Made me respect their off the shelf rifle a little more.
Absolutely JP. House gun, hunting gun, competition gun are all JP for the same reason. Quality, reliability and accuracy.
already having 2 regular ar's i think my next one will be one of those short barreled ones the pistol things I have only see a few of them in person and they look fun not sure of which brand i would pic I have not looked into them as much as I would have liked to .the louder the better for me at least .. which or what ever you get good luck to you ar's are extremely fun and easy to shoot .
I don’t know why there are so many recommendations for JP guns. It’s not that they are bad quality, but they are designed around a different type of crowd. That crowd is competition shooting. JP even says they don’t recommend their lightweight carriers for duty use...which means they are range toys. What other serious AR manufacturer says “please don’t abuse this”?
The AI of AR15’s is Knight’s Armament or LMT. I would argue that Noveske is not far behind. BCM is just another run of the mill AR15, same with Daniel Defense. I would put them right there with aero precision.
I have an LMT upper on a Knight’s lower. This is my favorite carbine I’ve ever used/owned and I have had Daniel Defense (still have it), FN SCAR, custom AR’s and Sig MCX.
The AI of AR15’s is Knight’s Armament or LMT. I would argue that Noveske is not far behind. BCM is just another run of the mill AR15, same with Daniel Defense. I would put them right there with aero precision.
I have an LMT upper on a Knight’s lower. This is my favorite carbine I’ve ever used/owned and I have had Daniel Defense (still have it), FN SCAR, custom AR’s and Sig MCX.
No love for Radian Weapons?? If I could only have one I would build it. Then I would have what I wanted on it.
Having built more AR-15s over the last 15 years than I can count, this is not entirely accurate.
Knight’s would definitely be top tier. But DD and BCM are not “run of the mill.” They might not be the most flashy, but they are built with correctly spec’d parts. I would, and have, trusted my life to BCM, DD, and LMT.
Aero Precision is not bad, but they are “run of the mill.”
JPs are absolutely “gamer” competition type guns. For 3-gun they are top notch, but I’ve never even heard of a Dept or SWAT team using them. When you try to run on the ragged edge for fast follow up shots, and least amount of recoil- you sacrifice reliability.
The key component for an AR is to use a quality upper. This means good barrel, receiver, and bolt carrier group. The lower is much less important, as long as all the parts, holes are in spec. You can put a top quality upper on a budget lower (with proper parts) and it will run as reliably as anything.
My buddies swat team has JP guns and our SWAT snipers have JP guns as well. My buddies agency is supposedly phasing out their JP rifles. What the specific reason is...not sure.
Funny thing is there are a few companies that make MOST of the parts everyone else uses. There are companies that make real DOD quality parts and then there are civilian/commercial parts that just skate by. Compare Microbest or Schneider carriers/BCGs to Young MFG or Toolcraft. The tolerances some companies keep is very close while others run from one ragged edge to the other extreme edge.
I agree about JPs. For a fighting rifle I want a heavy carrier, buffer and a strong spring so when the rifle gets hot and dirty there is enough momentum to strip and chamber the cartridges. The gas port must be sized to work correctly with the extra weight and spring.
With many of those "top tier" rifles people are paying for the name stamped on them. I know of one company selling rifles for $2300 that uses $50 barrels in them. One of the 3 you listed has a terrible time with bad crowns on their barrels.
Anyone can build a damn fine rifle for much less but they can't start by searching for the cheapest crap they can find on sale.
In regards to JP rifles. I'll bet you can get regular BCGs and full power springs in their rifles. They do sell those individually. I have one of their FMOS BCGs and I've never had an issue with the Silent Capture Spring. I do believe that they do sell regular full power springs as well. Their were two issues I had when I built my 308 using a JP barrel, full mass BCG and Silent Capture Spring neither of which was their fault.
1) The barrel wasn't dimpled for a gas block. I took it to a gun smith with the gas block I was installing on it to have him dimple it. The gunsmith screwed up the job and didn't have the dimples correctly lined up for the gas port. It was causing the rifle not to have enough gas even with the gas block fully open and causing it to short stroke. Once I took it back to the gunsmith and fought with him about the issue. He finally dimpled it the way I told him to. Now the gas block is properly aligned and no more issues with it. That was not JPs fault. Though I don't know why they didn't dimple it below the gas port. I should have contacted them about it before I took it to a gunsmith that fucked up what should've been a simple job.
2) I bought a regular weight Silent Capture Spring. When I was finally able to add the supressor to the rifle (took ATF 9 months to the day to get me the stupid tax stamp) It caused cycling issues even with the gas system turned way down. I contacted JP after over a year of having bought the stuff and they said it was due to not having a heavy enough spring. I got a couple of weights to increase the weight and problem solved. Again, not JPs fault. It was mine for not buying the correctly weighted Silent Capture Spring.
I do think that JP rifles can be built for hard use. It's just that they normally aren't because their more for competitors than duty use. That's their target market. But don't discount a JP rifle or their parts just because they're aimed at gamers. But you are right that part of the cost of a top tier rifle is that you're paying for the name. Course with that name comes a certain expectation that you won't have with cheaper rifles.
1) The barrel wasn't dimpled for a gas block. I took it to a gun smith with the gas block I was installing on it to have him dimple it. The gunsmith screwed up the job and didn't have the dimples correctly lined up for the gas port. It was causing the rifle not to have enough gas even with the gas block fully open and causing it to short stroke. Once I took it back to the gunsmith and fought with him about the issue. He finally dimpled it the way I told him to. Now the gas block is properly aligned and no more issues with it. That was not JPs fault. Though I don't know why they didn't dimple it below the gas port. I should have contacted them about it before I took it to a gunsmith that fucked up what should've been a simple job.
2) I bought a regular weight Silent Capture Spring. When I was finally able to add the supressor to the rifle (took ATF 9 months to the day to get me the stupid tax stamp) It caused cycling issues even with the gas system turned way down. I contacted JP after over a year of having bought the stuff and they said it was due to not having a heavy enough spring. I got a couple of weights to increase the weight and problem solved. Again, not JPs fault. It was mine for not buying the correctly weighted Silent Capture Spring.
I do think that JP rifles can be built for hard use. It's just that they normally aren't because their more for competitors than duty use. That's their target market. But don't discount a JP rifle or their parts just because they're aimed at gamers. But you are right that part of the cost of a top tier rifle is that you're paying for the name. Course with that name comes a certain expectation that you won't have with cheaper rifles.
I know plenty of departments that run junk ARs. It doesn’t mean that I would ever recommend them. A lot of places have people making decisions that aren’t “gun people” and don’t know any better. They would never pick a Taurus or Hi Point as the department’s issued sidearm, but then they buy the AR equivalent and issue that.
This ^^^^^^^^^^ but I'd be OK with HK, LMT or a Sig.
But KAC is w/o a doubt, top of the heap.
MM
Those of you who are recommending a JP when OP wants the AI of AR's are retarded.
AI's are designed to be 110% reliable no matter what conditions the rifle is being utilized in. Reliability first--everything else second. It doesn't matter how fast you can shoot your follow up shot or what .XXmoa accuracy your rig is capable of if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger.
Any recommendation of a rifle that does not utilize a pinned gas block, mil-spec "style" FCG, chrome lined bore, and chromed lined rifling should not be considered if you're on the quest for the "AI of AR's.
League of their own: KAC & LMT. Nod goes to LMT if you want the most robust AR in the world due to the MRP design. My opinion.
Mid-tier: Centurion or colt. Or a BCM with a pinned GB
AI's are designed to be 110% reliable no matter what conditions the rifle is being utilized in. Reliability first--everything else second. It doesn't matter how fast you can shoot your follow up shot or what .XXmoa accuracy your rig is capable of if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger.
Any recommendation of a rifle that does not utilize a pinned gas block, mil-spec "style" FCG, chrome lined bore, and chromed lined rifling should not be considered if you're on the quest for the "AI of AR's.
League of their own: KAC & LMT. Nod goes to LMT if you want the most robust AR in the world due to the MRP design. My opinion.
Mid-tier: Centurion or colt. Or a BCM with a pinned GB
Oh I can’t believe we’ve left out Colt. For a long time THE answer to an AR question was the Colt 6920. You can’t beat it for a standard “M4.” The thing is nobody, myself included, wants a standard M4 configuration. I much prefer at least a 12” Mlok or keymod rail. I’ve shaved down many a fixed front sight base, but these days it easier to just go with a lo pro gas block and appropriate barrel.
No offense, but if it’s only for range fun- no need to worry about getting a “duty grade” rifle. For plinking at the range, just about anything will do.
But you can get whatever you want. Canada is a free country right? ? I kid. I’ve been to the Great White North twice on hunting trips. It’s a beautiful place.
For a very accurate barrel, at a reasonable price check out AR15 Performance. I’ve used several of their barrels and they shoot lights out. I have a 16” 6.8 SPC barrel from them that will consistently put 5 120 grain Hornady SST (factory ammo) into one hole.
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No offence taken
Just not interested in buying something cheap and end up upgrading like when I got into precision rifles
You got in there before I added my edit. But yeah I get it- no problem with getting a good rifle to start. I think you will be fine with most of the recommendations here. Honestly for range use a JP would be a good bet. Should be very accurate, which is what I’d want in a range gun. But in you situation, I’d lean toward a good match grade barrel. I’ve have 100% reliability out of quality “match” chambers. Because only accurate rifles are interesting right? But I also have BCM standard (no experience with hammer forged) chrome lined barrels that will consistently shoot 55 grain Federal ball ammo at MOA or better groups.
That would have been good to state from the beginning. If it's for range and competition, get the JP, no question. It will be an amazing gun. Go full race, and enjoy it for what it is. Everyone has been giving you life-or-death recommendations here, and great recommendations at that, but if this won't be used to kill people, just get a full race gun.
Man theres a lot of guys sucking on some KAC here lol. Yes, they're top tier... but IMO, they're in the same league as BCM or DD as far as reliability and durability goes. "features" are another topic here. We carried the Daniel Defense M4A1 (RIS II) uppers overseas, after USASOC/SOCOM failed to keep the SCAR Lights (16's), and beat the shit out of them. Never failed us.
Never seen so many people trash JP either. They make legit ass stuff. Just because they're target market is competition, doesn't mean you can't get a duty gun from them.
OP.... get any standard name brand AR thats been put together well. S&W, Rock River, Radiant, LMT, Larue, DD, BCM, KAC, Palmetto(premium line), Spikes Tactical, etc. They'll all work for what your purpose is. Maybe throw a Larue MBT trigger in it if you're buying one of the standard models or something.
Never seen so many people trash JP either. They make legit ass stuff. Just because they're target market is competition, doesn't mean you can't get a duty gun from them.
OP.... get any standard name brand AR thats been put together well. S&W, Rock River, Radiant, LMT, Larue, DD, BCM, KAC, Palmetto(premium line), Spikes Tactical, etc. They'll all work for what your purpose is. Maybe throw a Larue MBT trigger in it if you're buying one of the standard models or something.
The only real differences with the KAC are the bolt and the lower has ambi controls. The gas system on the mod 2 is different as well. Those parts are proprietary to KAC which is a turn-off to me. Here's a photo I found online of the KAC mod 2 gas system.
I was not implying that they were good because they use them. I was just stating a team that uses them because you said you haven’t heard of any team using JP. That was it.
Why does KAC do that? The original design has been proven time and time again. Unless it makes it more accurate? which I find that hard to believe considering the tiny groups guys are shooting with precision AR's.
I can think of an upgrade that is worthwhile though... JP's 9310 bolt with DLC coating. I know they're not the only ones who can do that, just an example.
You opened a can of worms with this question hahaha... hope you find a good AR for you though man. You definitely don't have to spend a ton of money to get a quality product.
The gas system was designed primarily to eliminate gas leakage at the gas block and gas tube/gas block interface. Most issues with function in the Stoner-designed internal inline piston operating system are linked to management of propellant gas pressure. The traditional pinned-in gas tube is susceptible to pressure loss at the gas block/gas tube interface point. This can easily be observed on legacy systems at the gas tube/gas block juncture, evidenced by carbon build up. Inconsistent pressure bleed in the gas system forces the AR system to be intentionally over-gassed to ensure reliable function with a variety of ammunition in varying environments and conditions of fouling. In traditional systems the gas-bleed will eventually self-seal via carbon build-up, resulting in even greater system pressure. Adding a suppressor further increases system pressure and duration of pressure, which can cause other function issues due to increased bolt carrier velocity. The fitting of the gas-tube to the gas block spigot, with positive retention by a specifically torqued nut, eliminates early loss of pressure, permitting the system to reliably operate in the afore-mentioned conditions without over-gassing. Sealing bleed points enables KAC to continue to produce carbines that are soft-shooting and highly reliable while reducing the potential to have the occasional under-gassed carbine reach the consumer. Straight gas tubes can be tightly controlled and are not susceptible to deformation or pinching during production as traditionally bent tubes are. The straight tube aligns with the gas key of the bolt carrier with greater consistency than bent tubes as well, significantly reducing the need to tweak tube alignment.
The castle-nut type of retainer nut was chosen over other retention methods such as taper pins and set-screws. Taper pins are a very secure method of gas-block assembly, however, they do come with some negatives. Taper pins are one-time use items as they are usually deformed during the installation and removal processes. The zero-tolerance fit of taper-pins to the gas block and barrel marries the barrel to the gas block; loss of the gas block for any reason will preclude the use of another taper-pinned gas block unless meticulously selected. Drilling the barrel and gas block for taper pins introduces a possibility of barrel distortion, and while not necessarily noticeable, does impact barrel rigidity. The revised gas system’s gas block is interchangeable without fitting, and the retaining nut can be reused. No holes need to be drilled into anything, and assembly/disassembly no longer comes with potential damage to the gas block or barrel. Set screws can potentially loosen, even if seated in dimples in the barrel, and when torqued and sealed into position have a tendency to strip during disassembly. The castle nut type retainer nut of the revised KAC gas system can bear high disassembly torque, and when properly torqued to design, are not susceptible to loosening during use.
The URX4 hand-guard system stands apart from most other visually similar fore ends in that it is a progression of the Integral Barrel Nut (IBN) concept; a fresh approach to rigidity, modularity, simplicity, and weight reduction. Having the hand-guard and barrel nut as a single unit results in a monolithic-like extension of the upper receiver once properly assembled. The integrated barrel nut of the URX4 virtually eliminates the need for specialized tools to assemble or disassemble the system. The one-piece tubular design is more rigid than multiple joined sections forming the hand-guard, providing less POI deviation with hand-guard mounted sighting systems if lateral forces are applied, and sheds the weight of the assembly hardware. Thermal transfer away from the chamber area is improved with the IBN system, and enhanced with the natural cooling and air-flow of the KeyMod mounting point openings. KeyMod recesses distributed around the hand-guard provide compatibility with industry standard mounts without the weight and bulk of MIL-STD-1913 rails. Mounting points are available on seven sides of the hand-guard for optimal placement of accessories, with the 12:00 portion devoted to a MIL-STD-1913 rail for aiming devices. The outer diameter of the URX4 is very similar to the URX3/3.1, but with a larger internal diameter to enable clearance for indexed suppressors. Weight of the 14.5 inch 5.56 URX4 is lower than that of the 13.5 inch 5.56 URX3.1, giving the user more barrel protection, more mounting options, and longer sight radius with no weight penalty. Clearance for the improved gas systems of the SR-15 E3 Mod 2 and SR-25 E2 have been accounted for and integrated into the URX4 to ensure that the barrel and gas system are free-floated inside the fore-arm.[/QUOTE]
The castle-nut type of retainer nut was chosen over other retention methods such as taper pins and set-screws. Taper pins are a very secure method of gas-block assembly, however, they do come with some negatives. Taper pins are one-time use items as they are usually deformed during the installation and removal processes. The zero-tolerance fit of taper-pins to the gas block and barrel marries the barrel to the gas block; loss of the gas block for any reason will preclude the use of another taper-pinned gas block unless meticulously selected. Drilling the barrel and gas block for taper pins introduces a possibility of barrel distortion, and while not necessarily noticeable, does impact barrel rigidity. The revised gas system’s gas block is interchangeable without fitting, and the retaining nut can be reused. No holes need to be drilled into anything, and assembly/disassembly no longer comes with potential damage to the gas block or barrel. Set screws can potentially loosen, even if seated in dimples in the barrel, and when torqued and sealed into position have a tendency to strip during disassembly. The castle nut type retainer nut of the revised KAC gas system can bear high disassembly torque, and when properly torqued to design, are not susceptible to loosening during use.
The URX4 hand-guard system stands apart from most other visually similar fore ends in that it is a progression of the Integral Barrel Nut (IBN) concept; a fresh approach to rigidity, modularity, simplicity, and weight reduction. Having the hand-guard and barrel nut as a single unit results in a monolithic-like extension of the upper receiver once properly assembled. The integrated barrel nut of the URX4 virtually eliminates the need for specialized tools to assemble or disassemble the system. The one-piece tubular design is more rigid than multiple joined sections forming the hand-guard, providing less POI deviation with hand-guard mounted sighting systems if lateral forces are applied, and sheds the weight of the assembly hardware. Thermal transfer away from the chamber area is improved with the IBN system, and enhanced with the natural cooling and air-flow of the KeyMod mounting point openings. KeyMod recesses distributed around the hand-guard provide compatibility with industry standard mounts without the weight and bulk of MIL-STD-1913 rails. Mounting points are available on seven sides of the hand-guard for optimal placement of accessories, with the 12:00 portion devoted to a MIL-STD-1913 rail for aiming devices. The outer diameter of the URX4 is very similar to the URX3/3.1, but with a larger internal diameter to enable clearance for indexed suppressors. Weight of the 14.5 inch 5.56 URX4 is lower than that of the 13.5 inch 5.56 URX3.1, giving the user more barrel protection, more mounting options, and longer sight radius with no weight penalty. Clearance for the improved gas systems of the SR-15 E3 Mod 2 and SR-25 E2 have been accounted for and integrated into the URX4 to ensure that the barrel and gas system are free-floated inside the fore-arm.[/QUOTE]
buy an lmt, their product is on the same level as kac and they are a battle proven company. The best thing about lmt is there quality control and pricing (if you look around). Danial Defense makes a good rifle but not for their price tag. BCM is good but not as good as the used to be. If I bought a bcm I would change the barrel.
you can trust your life with an LMT!
you can trust your life with an LMT!
