First Crossover Rifle (Higher end B14-HMR VS Tikka)

[Abelmartinez90]

Hello, My name is Abel, I live in Fort Worth, Texas and this is my first post.

I want to buy my firs bolt action centerfire rifle. The purpose of this rifle is both hunting and long range shooting. For now, my intention is get only 1 competent rifle that can fulfil both purposes, and have it for a while to learn and get the best of it. The caliber would be 308, because I already have other rifles in this caliber and also 300blk so the logistics work great. I am a reloader already.

I was reading this forum to do my homework before making my first intervention. Initially, I was thinking about the B14 HMR but I saw that most of you guys recommend the Tikka instead. I am flexible with the budget, but I do not want to pay for something and features that I am not going to use. My candidates were:

1. B-14 HMR
2. B-14 HMR Wildness
3. B-14 HMR PRO

However, now because all I was reading, it is clear to me that I should always pick a Tikka over the basic b14-HMR, but when we compare with higher end Bergaras the thing is not as clear. Now, I have this 3 options as well:

• Tikka T3X CTR
• Tikka T3X UPR
• Tikka T3X Supervarmint

Also I would need a good scope that can fulfill the purpose and bellow 1000$.

I would really appreciate your help to make a decision or at least narrow the list of options.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Aaros143]

A Tikka in a KRG bravo chassis is always going to be the best crossover in my opinion. For a below $1000 scope I would start with a Vortex Viper PST. If you can stretch the budget just a bit there's some Burris XTR IIIs that are going for well below what they used to go for since the PRO came out. A bushnell XRS would also be an option.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

A Tikka in a KRG bravo chassis is always going to be the best crossover in my opinion. For a below $1000 scope I would start with a Vortex Viper PST. If you can stretch the budget just a bit there's some Burris XTR IIIs that are going for well below what they used to go for since the PRO came out. A bushnell XRS would also be an option.

Thanks for the help.

I assume that the only difference between CTR and UPR is the stock, and it is better to get and aftermarket Bravo stock and upgrade a CTR rather buying the UPR. Right?

 

[Scopes]

Thanks for the help.

I assume that the only difference between CTR and UPR is the stock, and it is better to get and aftermarket Bravo stock and upgrade a CTR rather buying the UPR. Right?

Yes, the stock is the only difference. Bravo is better IMO, UPR will be lighter though. The SWFA 3-15 is on sale FYI. https://www.swfa.com/swfa-3-15x42-ss-30mm-riflescope-107011.html. Best scope you can get for sub $500 that actually tracks reliably IMO.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I would say a few things to your question:
- Don't get a base HMR, I did and I ended up spending basically the same money to get it to Pro level
- Wilderness is only nominally a crossover rifle, if you really want to learn long-range shooting you'd be better off with the Pro here as well
- Even if you wanted to take it out in rugged weather, the stainless construction of the Pro is better than the Cerakote of the Wilderness
- I haven't really heard any Tikka owners who were mad about owning a Tikka; a little less true on the Bergaras, but I do think the Premier line is significantly less gripe-prone
- The aftermarket support for the HMR will be better, but the Tikka aftermarket has come a long way; just about the only thing you can't do with the Tikka is put certain triggers in it, but most other things are covered for both options
- If you think you'll ever want to switch barrels, whether because you burned yours out or want to run a switch caliber setup, the Tikka is the better choice because it'll take true shouldered prefits
- The HMR stock is actually an excellent factory stock; you can't really add weights, but if you install a full-length ARCA rail it ticks a lot of the rest of the key boxes on a precision rifle stock. I can't speak to Tikka stocks but others can.
- The Tikka can switch action lengths I believe, which is a pretty sweet feature, esp for a hunter who wants to shoot precision also

I think the only way you could go truly wrong in this case is to buy the base or Wilderness HMR; I'll let others speak to the Tikka options, since I don't have first-hand experience with them and haven't researched the different configurations.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Thank you all for the help. After your comments and searching prices it looks like the 2 better options are:

• B-14 HMR PRO
• Tikka T3X CTR with Bravo

Both really close in price, the Bergara a little bit cheaper but comes without rail. I think both are great options. Now I have to pick one of them .

 

[308pirate]

Thank you all for the help. After your comments and searching prices it looks like the 2 better options are:

• B-14 HMR PRO
• Tikka T3X CTR with Bravo

Both really close in price, the Bergara a little bit cheaper but comes without rail. I think both are great options. Now I have to pick one of them .

I'd take the Bergara from those two.

A quality Picatinny receiver base is less than 100 bucks. Don't let that be the deciding factor.

 

[Hondo64d]

As far as optics go, precise tracking and zero retention are priority followed by reticle and then glass, in that order. Reticle selection in a crossover is critical. You want FFP and the reticle needs to be bold enough to see on low mag in low light or illuminated. A used Bushnell LRHS or LRTSi is probably the ultimate crossover scope. Magnification is not as important as most think. You can hit at 1000 yards all day long with the right fixed 10x scope. For the $, you are simply not going to beat one of these at their current sale price:

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SSHD520X50MQI Finish: Matte Reticle: Illuminated MIL-Quad (Red) Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First

www.swfa.com

SWFA 10x42 SS HD 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 10x42 SS HD 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SSHD10X42MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Rear Focus Focal Plane: Second

www.swfa.com

Pre-owned can save you significant $. If you are Military or LE, there are several manufacturers and vendors that offer significant discounts.

John

 

[hafejd30]

Thank you all for the help. After your comments and searching prices it looks like the 2 better options are:

• B-14 HMR PRO
• Tikka T3X CTR with Bravo

Both really close in price, the Bergara a little bit cheaper but comes without rail. I think both are great options. Now I have to pick one of them .

This is my Tikka CTR 308 in KRG Bravo. In my opinion the bravo is the cheapest great option that allows full adjustment. Also allows Arca and picatinny rails or spigots to be added without modifications. You can find the krg new or watch the px here for the chassis or rails and what not.

The ctr has a very smooth action and 60° bolt throw. Which I hands down prefer vs a 700 platform. Only B14 platform I have currently is the B14R.

The magazine on the Tikka is 10 round and double stacked much like AIAT mags are. I consider the Tikka CTR in the krg to be a cheaper option more compared to a Sako TRG

Also Tikka triggers are some of the best factory triggers available. My CTR and T1X are set at 1.5 lbs. My T1X goes to 15oz from the factory with no mods. My Bergara went to about 2.5 lbs and had more creep than uncle Joe in a preschool

The CTR barrel profile is the same as the UPR. But I believe slimmer profile than the super Varmint. The Tikkas generally run a bit slow compared to other 308 barrels but the SS should get better velocity if needed

I’ve owned many 700 platforms including GA Precision and Bergara. I hands down prefer the actions/platforms of Tikka and AI vs those

For $1000 optics watch the px or CameralandNY for deals on Burris XTRIII’s. Mine below wears a XTRII 3-15

 

[Aaros143]

Crappy pic. Here's my Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5. I would have taken it in 308 but got a deal on the 6.5 and cut the barrel to 16".
I did swap the factory 0 moa rail to a Murphy precision 20 moa rail. The reason for the murphy precision rail was I needed the 20 MOA elevation to get past 1000 and the Murphy is the only one that uses the 6mm recoil lug pin.

Dropped it in a KRG Bravo chassis and I have the best of both worlds.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

I'd take the Bergara from those two.

A quality Picatinny receiver base is less than 100 bucks. Don't let that be the deciding factor.

PROs and CONs of the Bergara? It looks like the Tikka has more supporters.

As far as my research goes:

PROS:

• Magazines.
• Remington 700 pattern.
• More trigger options.
• More after market.

CONS:

• The bolt is smoother in the Tikka

 

[Abelmartinez90]

As far as optics go, precise tracking and zero retention are priority followed by reticle and then glass, in that order. Reticle selection in a crossover is critical. You want FFP and the reticle needs to be bold enough to see on low mag in low light or illuminated. A used Bushnell LRHS or LRTSi is probably the ultimate crossover scope. Magnification is not as important as most think. You can hit at 1000 yards all day long with the right fixed 10x scope. For the $, you are simply not going to beat one of these at their current sale price:

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 5-20x50 SS HD 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SSHD520X50MQI Finish: Matte Reticle: Illuminated MIL-Quad (Red) Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Side Focus Focal Plane: First

www.swfa.com

SWFA 10x42 SS HD 30mm Riflescope

SWFA 10x42 SS HD 30mm Riflescope Details SKU: SSHD10X42MQ Finish: Matte Reticle: MIL-Quad Tube Diameter (mm): 30 Elevation Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Windage Knob: Exposed Target (.1 MIL) Parallax Setting: Rear Focus Focal Plane: Second

www.swfa.com

Pre-owned can save you significant $. If you are Military or LE, there are several manufacturers and vendors that offer significant discounts.

John

Thanks, that is really helpful. I have no problem in used equipment or guns as soon as they are in good shape.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

This is my Tikka CTR 308 in KRG Bravo. In my opinion the bravo is the cheapest great option that allows full adjustment. Also allows Arca and picatinny rails or spigots to be added without modifications. You can find the krg new or watch the px here for the chassis or rails and what not.

The ctr has a very smooth action and 60° bolt throw. Which I hands down prefer vs a 700 platform. Only B14 platform I have currently is the B14R.

The magazine on the Tikka is 10 round and double stacked much like AIAT mags are. I consider the Tikka CTR in the krg to be a cheaper option more compared to a Sako TRG

Also Tikka triggers are some of the best factory triggers available. My CTR and T1X are set at 1.5 lbs. My T1X goes to 15oz from the factory with no mods. My Bergara went to about 2.5 lbs and had more creep than uncle Joe in a preschool

The CTR barrel profile is the same as the UPR. But I believe slimmer profile than the super Varmint. The Tikkas generally run a bit slow compared to other 308 barrels but the SS should get better velocity if needed

I’ve owned many 700 platforms including GA Precision and Bergara. I hands down prefer the actions/platforms of Tikka and AI vs those

For $1000 optics watch the px or CameralandNY for deals on Burris XTRIII’s. Mine below wears a XTRII 3-15
View attachment 8085243View attachment 8085247

To be honest, at the beginning I liked the Bergara the most just because of the look, but with this chassis everything changes, is sexy AF. I think I like it as much or even more than the Bergara.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Crappy pic. Here's my Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5. I would have taken it in 308 but got a deal on the 6.5 and cut the barrel to 16".
I did swap the factory 0 moa rail to a Murphy precision 20 moa rail. The reason for the murphy precision rail was I needed the 20 MOA elevation to get past 1000 and the Murphy is the only one that uses the 6mm recoil lug pin.

Dropped it in a KRG Bravo chassis and I have the best of both worlds.

Why did u take those 4 inches?

 

[308pirate]

PROs and CONs of the Bergara? It looks like the Tikka has more supporters.

As far as my research goes:

PROS:

• Magazines.
• Remington 700 pattern.
• More trigger options.
• More after market.

CONS:

• The bolt is smoother in the Tikka

The con you mention is for sissies and actions smooth out with use anyway

I've never given a fuck about which rifle/optic/tripod/whatever has more fans.

 

[KnowNothing256]

PROs and CONs of the Bergara? It looks like the Tikka has more supporters.

As far as my research goes:

PROS:

• Magazines.
• Remington 700 pattern.
• More trigger options.
• More after market.

CONS:

• The bolt is smoother in the Tikka

Barrel prefits is another major consideration if you think you’ll ever swap one. Prefits for the Bergara are more rare and are almost always a barrel nut setup, which has its own complexities.

Tikkas are basically torque and go.

 

[Average guy]

I’ve never seen a Tikka that didn’t shoot very well. Action is smooth out of the box. Trigger is great with a $10 spring upgrade. The KRG Bravo is a great lower cost upgrade. It’s my pick of the two rifles discussed.

 

[perttime]

Thank you all for the help. After your comments and searching prices it looks like the 2 better options are:

• B-14 HMR PRO
• Tikka T3X CTR with Bravo

Both really close in price, the Bergara a little bit cheaper but comes without rail. I think both are great options. Now I have to pick one of them .

Does weight matter to you? Like heavier is better for target shooting vs. lighter is easier to carry while hunting?

A Tikka in a Bravo will weigh more than a CTR or UPR.

If lighter is better, see if you can get a CTR and a UPR in your hands to try or just feel. When I had the chance to handle both on the same day, I much preferred the UPR stock ergonomics.

 

[beetroot]

PROs and CONs of the Bergara? It looks like the Tikka has more supporters.

As far as my research goes:

PROS:

• Magazines.
• Remington 700 pattern.
• More trigger options.
• More after market.

CONS:

• The bolt is smoother in the Tikka

Tikka has an all round nicer action than the Bergara. Its a common action for guys to put a prefit barrel on and end up with a well priced semi custom rifle that'll shoot as well as most rifles on the market.

The magazine options are better for the Tikka as you can either go for CTR magazines (shorter, double stack, nicer in general but expensive) or AICS magazines.

There are more aftermarket options for Rem 700 actions but every option you realistically need is available for the Tikka, and they are popular enough the used market has a lot of options.

Personally I'd got Tikka in a Krg Bravo stock (either AICS or CTR depending on what mags you want to use).
The T3 Varmint has a heavier profile barrel so if you want to save a bit of weight go for the CTR. Or buy the cheapest T3x you can and get a prefit barrel in whatever profile you want.

 

[hafejd30]

If you do go Tikka CTR stick with the ctr mags. The bravo comes in both ctr or AICS. Ctr mags are much nicer even at the extra expense

Shorter 10 round mag and much smoother operation

 

[Aaros143]

Why did u take those 4 inches?

It's just easier carrying it around in the woods and moving it around in deer blinds. Adding the suppressor made it a bit long so I cut it back as much as I could.

The 16" 6.5 creedmoor basically has the same data as my 24" 308.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Thanks all for the replies. You guys are helping me a lot.

Wow, it looks like magazines are not a problem anymore if using the Bravo cause you can choose. So in Summary:

• Bergara PROs: More After Market options.
• Tikka PROs: Better action, Barrel Prefits, Better Trigger and cheaper to upgrade, lighter.

It looks like there is a clear winner. It looks like Bergara only wins in the aftermarket and it was said above that there is already enough aftermarket for the Tikka, and I guess it is growing given how popular this rifle is.

I will go with the Tikka.

Yes the weight matters since I want a rifle I can use for hunting. I will have to decide UPR or Bravo stock. I think I can go to a store and check the UPR, the problem is that I do not think they will have one on the Bravo chassis there for me to compare. What a pity I decided to buy a rifle now and not last month when I was at Shot Show in Vegas lol I could have checked plenty of things there, but I was checking AK47's lol.

I think I would go for one of the scopes mentioned above as well.

I do not think I need a compensator but I will have to find something because the barrel with the thread protector is ugly af.

 

[hafejd30]

Thanks all for the replies. You guys are helping me a lot.

Wow, it looks like magazines are not a problem anymore if using the Bravo cause you can choose. So in Summary:

• Bergara PROs: More After Market options.
• Tikka PROs: Better action, Barrel Prefits, Better Trigger and cheaper to upgrade, lighter.

It looks like there is a clear winner. It looks like Bergara only wins in the aftermarket and it was said above that there is already enough aftermarket for the Tikka, and I guess it is growing given how popular this rifle is.

I will go with the Tikka.

Yes the weight matters since I want a rifle I can use for hunting. I will have to decide UPR or Bravo stock. I think I can go to a store and check the UPR, the problem is that I do not think they will have one on the Bravo chassis there for me to compare. What a pity I decided to buy a rifle now and not last month when I was at Shot Show in Vegas lol I could have checked plenty of things there, but I was checking AK47's lol.

I think I would go for one of the scopes mentioned above as well.

I do not think I need a compensator but I will have to find something because the barrel with the thread protector is ugly af.

The bravo is not a heavy chassis. 2.9 lbs on midwayusa site. I use mine for hunting

 

[perttime]

The Bravo isn't a heavy chassis but the UPR stock is lighter. I suspect somebody must have weighed one....
Priorities and preferences.

To my eyes, the UPR stock also screams for a paint job

 

[krumfola]

Has anyone chosen the MDT XRS over the bravo?

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Hello all. Finally I did not buy anything back in the day. But yesterday I saw a good offer for a Bergara B-14 HMR brand new 850 free shipping so I got it. It has a decent stock, so it would be 850$ vs Tikka CTR + Bravo, probably double the price.

I got also a Burris XTR II 3-15x50 in Mils

Now I need a goo pic rail to install it. Any recommendations? Rings?

Also I do not like at all the thread cap. I have to put something in that muzzle, at least for aesthetic purposes
maybe

Home

DetailsThe Bergara Self Timing brake is the perfect option for shooters looking for a durable, lightweight, easy-to-install brake. This brake doesn’t have too many parts so it allows you to install the brake all by yourself. Installations should be super fast, so you don't have to worry about...

www.primaryarms.com

or

Home

DetailsThe Bergara Self Timing brake is the perfect option for shooters looking for a durable, lightweight, easy-to-install brake. This brake doesn’t have too many parts so it allows you to install the brake all by yourself. Installations should be super fast, so you don't have to worry about...

www.primaryarms.com

???

 

[Turkeytider]

Hello all. Finally I did not buy anything back in the day. But yesterday I saw a good offer for a Bergara B-14 HMR brand new 850 free shipping so I got it. It has a decent stock, so it would be 850$ vs Tikka CTR + Bravo, probably double the price.

I got also a Burris XTR II 3-15x50 in Mils

Now I need a goo pic rail to install it. Any recommendations? Rings?

Also I do not like at all the thread cap. I have to put something in that muzzle, at least for aesthetic purposes
maybe

Home

DetailsThe Bergara Self Timing brake is the perfect option for shooters looking for a durable, lightweight, easy-to-install brake. This brake doesn’t have too many parts so it allows you to install the brake all by yourself. Installations should be super fast, so you don't have to worry about...

www.primaryarms.com

or

Home

DetailsThe Bergara Self Timing brake is the perfect option for shooters looking for a durable, lightweight, easy-to-install brake. This brake doesn’t have too many parts so it allows you to install the brake all by yourself. Installations should be super fast, so you don't have to worry about...

www.primaryarms.com

???

Maybe a suppressor instead of a brake? The other shooters at the range will thank you! If you`ve ever tried to shoot next to someone who`s using one, you`ll know what I mean.

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Maybe a suppressor instead of a brake? The other shooters at the range will thank you! If you`ve ever tried to shoot next to someone who`s using one, you`ll know what I mean.

That would be cool. but I am not paying 200$ in tax stamp, waiting 6 month and go in a registry.

 

[Turkeytider]

That would be cool. but I am not paying 200$ in tax stamp, waiting 6 month and go in a registry.

Yeah, it`s a pain in the butt alright. I just hate the things. LOL, it`s a sure fire way to clear out two shooting bays on either side of you at the local range!

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Yeah, it`s a pain in the butt alright. I just hate the things. LOL, it`s a sure fire way to clear out two shooting bays on either side of you at the local range!

Im not planning to use the rifle at the range

 

[Turkeytider]

Im not planning to use the rifle at the range

That`s good then. Have at it! By the way, congrats on the B-14 HMR. Considering one myself in 6.5 Creed for a 1K range gun. Also a Tikka UPR.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Hello all. Finally I did not buy anything back in the day. But yesterday I saw a good offer for a Bergara B-14 HMR brand new 850 free shipping so I got it. It has a decent stock, so it would be 850$ vs Tikka CTR + Bravo, probably double the price.

I got also a Burris XTR II 3-15x50 in Mils

Now I need a goo pic rail to install it. Any recommendations? Rings?

Also I do not like at all the thread cap. I have to put something in that muzzle, at least for aesthetic purposes
maybe

Home

DetailsThe Bergara Self Timing brake is the perfect option for shooters looking for a durable, lightweight, easy-to-install brake. This brake doesn’t have too many parts so it allows you to install the brake all by yourself. Installations should be super fast, so you don't have to worry about...

www.primaryarms.com

or

Home

DetailsThe Bergara Self Timing brake is the perfect option for shooters looking for a durable, lightweight, easy-to-install brake. This brake doesn’t have too many parts so it allows you to install the brake all by yourself. Installations should be super fast, so you don't have to worry about...

www.primaryarms.com

???

Any number of rails will work. I'd recommend bedding it - not difficult and only requires JB Weld, clear shoe polish and basic tools.

For a brake, I don't like radial brakes (the first one) because if you're close to the ground or anything that's got dirt/debris in it (e.g. crook of a tree that's trapped stuff), radial brakes kick all that crap up.

The second brake... eh, anything that requires a special tool to remove is problematic after you lose said tool.

I've tried various brakes and the two I've landed on for self-timing brakes are the Area 419 Hellfire, and the APA Lil-Bastard. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

The Hellfire times up better, but is honestly a little bit of a pain to remove sometimes.

The APA doesn't time up as nicely (it walks a little when you tighten), but is much easier to remove because it has flats to use a wrench on. I've actually started using brakes that require timing. I'd rather spend a little more up front and get ease of everything else on the back end of things. Wouldn't work for you, though, unless you go get your barrel timed for it.

Gen 3 Little Bastard Self Timing Muzzle Brake*

American Precision Arms is very excited to share the release of the Generation 3 Little Bastard. It has been a long time coming but we wanted to make sure everything was perfect before offering something new. The development of APA Gen 3 Little Bastard was the result of American Precision Arms'...

www.americanprecisionarms.com

Hellfire Self Timing Muzzle Brake

The HELLFIRE Self Timing Brake system was engineered from the ground up to reduce more recoil and muzzle flip, while being easier to install.

www.area419.com

 

[Abelmartinez90]

Any number of rails will work. I'd recommend bedding it - not difficult and only requires JB Weld, clear shoe polish and basic tools.

For a brake, I don't like radial brakes (the first one) because if you're close to the ground or anything that's got dirt/debris in it (e.g. crook of a tree that's trapped stuff), radial brakes kick all that crap up.

The second brake... eh, anything that requires a special tool to remove is problematic after you lose said tool.

I've tried various brakes and the two I've landed on for self-timing brakes are the Area 419 Hellfire, and the APA Lil-Bastard. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

The Hellfire times up better, but is honestly a little bit of a pain to remove sometimes.

The APA doesn't time up as nicely (it walks a little when you tighten), but is much easier to remove because it has flats to use a wrench on. I've actually started using brakes that require timing. I'd rather spend a little more up front and get ease of everything else on the back end of things. Wouldn't work for you, though, unless you go get your barrel timed for it.

Gen 3 Little Bastard Self Timing Muzzle Brake*

American Precision Arms is very excited to share the release of the Generation 3 Little Bastard. It has been a long time coming but we wanted to make sure everything was perfect before offering something new. The development of APA Gen 3 Little Bastard was the result of American Precision Arms'...

www.americanprecisionarms.com

https://www.area419.com/product/hellfire_st/[/Finall

Finally I got a Talley 0 Moa Pic rail and The Burris XTR Signature rings. Those rings allow for 5, 10, 15, and 25 MOA. The brake, I got the https://www.vg6precision.com/vg6-gamma-762