First Long Range Rig Question.

[chris514scott]

Question. My Dad bought me a Vortex Razor HD II for Christmas and told me he wants to start long range shooting with me. I have wanted to build a BigHorn TL3 in a JAllen chassis but if I do that I won't be able to drop much money in reloading dies and such. Plus it will take me a little while to gather the funds needed for such a build. I have also been eyeing the Tikka T3x A1 and it seems like a pretty sweet rifle. My question is, would it be a waste to buy the Tikka and shoot it for now while learning fundamentals and put off the custom build a few years? Or should I just keep saving and build the rifle I truly want? Thanks for any insight.

 

[Krazy_jim]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Tikka has some great rifles, and I just recently picked up a t3x in .308. As much as I would like a custom, j can't justify the costs when I can pick up a full rifle for $700. Especially when I can just rebarrel the tikka and still come out cheaper than a custom action.

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[Kadams1563]

Well first off what a nice gift for your dad to give you! My dad would look at me crazy if he even knew how much I have in my rifles and no way would he ever buy me anything like that.

How far are you wanting to shoot and what reloading gear do you have now?

I ask because I have a full custom 6.5 Creedmoor built on a Defiance setting in a Manners T6A and its really a waste of a rifle. I am currently looking at stepping down to a .223 due to most of my time is spent 300 yards and in.

I reload for it but I feel like I waste money when I take it out. I could load .223 for probably 1/2 the cost and get tons more barrel life. I have also shot 1k with a .223 so I don't feel like I would be limited very much.

 

[nfoley]

If you want the Bighorn TL3 I would go ahead and get it now, rather than have to sell a Tikka in the future. You could save some money and get something like a used XLR element (around $4-500, and excellent chassis), and get a relatively inexpensive prefit barrel in the caliber of your choice for $3-500. That would save some $$ on gunsmithing and the expensive JAE.
Nothing wrong with the tikka by the way.

 

[Delicatessen]

For the price of the a1 (when I looked like $1700) I would do something like the tl3 and a krg bravo...not to far off in end price...if you can’t swing the higher end barrels there are some decent lothar Walther ones for a couple hundred if they make the caliber you want stocked. I have tikkas and a mausingfield...both are nice but no comparison if you can get close to same price.

 

[schmi015]

The t3x a1 is a phenomenal rifle and great introductory gun, if you're just starting you don't necessarily need a ferrari when the honda beats it for DC traffic. Buy the Tikka, mount your scope and buy a pallet of ammo, shoot, attend a class, then reload all that brass. If you're hooked, upgrade or rebarrel.

 

[TravisP]

What about a Howa HCR? Just recently picked up a Howa multicam heavy bar in 6.5 creedmoor. Have not got to shoot it yet but for my purposes it should work fine. I had a budget I could not go over that allowed for rifle, glass, mount, rings, ammo. If I would have had 500 more bucks, the HCR would be in my hands. Have read great things about them. The chassis gets good reviews and is damn accurate. Lifetime guarantee and sub moa guarantee. Can’t beat that. Way cheaper than a custom build that will shoot great. Have seen them for around a grand. Good luck


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[L.R.Novice]

If you have enough experience to know exactly what need/want, go for the TL3 now. I’ve found that I usually buy what I really wanted in the end so why waste time and money on anything else.

If you've not been shooting much and arent sure what you like and how you’d use it, I’d go a cheaper route to test the waters...perhaps even cheaper than the Tikka.

 

[MakeSawdust]

Bighorn TL3 -$1250
KRG Bravo - $400 for backbone with large lug slot
Criterion prefit + barrel nut from NSS - $330

You can add a reasonably priced trigger and you have a nice action and a barrel that will probably hold half moa for just north of $2k. It's your money, but in my mind that is a lot closer to what you want than a Tikka for not a lot more money. Probably pretty easy to sell the Bravo and upgrade the chassis later.

 

[TheGerman]

Have your dad buy you an MRAD.

 

[steve123]

Ha, Imagine the torture of having that $2500 scope sitting in the safe for months or years while saving the money for a nice build. I never could understand that concept and you never know what the future holds... Live right now.

If that's going to be the case, just get a cheap rifle for now, buy a Ruger American Predator, mount the scope and go play. You might have to settle for 1 moa but that beats working overtime while the buds are out clanging steel. Heck, I'd rather be shooting a hideous savage than wait.

Then buy reloading tools and supplies first chance you get.

 

[_Windrider_]

Have your dad buy you an MRAD.

he should also buy him a trimble with FFS and a vectronix PLRF-25C to accurately hit those paper targets at 100.

 

[Nik H]

steve123 is correct. Get what you can and get out there and shoot.

Not only will you start the mastery of fundamentals that are fully transferrable to your next rifle but you also may determine that the TL3 may not be what you want in the long run. Shooting now will allow you to learn about what YOU want in a next rifle. It may not be what you think you want today with the experience that you have.

One thing you may also want to consider is taking some money and investing in a good class. Taking a class will set you on the right track to start with and result in fewer bad habits to lose later. Moreover, it allows you to see what others are using for a rifle and give you an opportunity to try them. This will also result in a better decision when you can afford a better rifle.

 

[MakeSawdust]

I know I said above go for the TL3, but that was based on a $1700-$2000 budget. I'm with Steve if that budget is a stretch. Get something you can afford now and get shooting and reloading. When I was younger I did pretty well with some very inexpensive equipment, and while I have better stuff now, it is still nowhere near top of the line. If you can afford $1700 for the Tikka with the chassis you can probably stretch that a little bit and get into a custom action with a prefit. If that's too much money just get what you can afford and be patient. In time you'll be able to afford better stuff and you'll get to enjoy shooting what you have in the meantime.

 

[308220]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Tikka has some great rifles, and I just recently picked up a t3x in .308. As much as I would like a custom, j can't justify the costs when I can pick up a full rifle for $700. Especially when I can just rebarrel the tikka and still come out cheaper than a custom action.

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Pretty much. I never understood the mindset of "graduating" to a full "custom" build later on. I use the term "custom" loosely because, if every Tom, Dick and Harry can order up a Rock or Gladius, is it really "custom"? Or is it semi custom? Custom, imo, is something NOBODY else has. Quigley, now he had a custom rifle. Tikka, Ruger, Savage all make quality rifles right off the shelf. Once you throw on a custom barrel, built to your specs, you have a custom rifle. Without the $4k price tag. Barrel is what sets a rifle apart from others. Without a custom made barrel, built specifically for a given range, a Gucci action or chassis isnt going to magically make that bullet stable at 1200 yards. Taking nothing away from GAP. They put together fine rifles. I just think we need to take a step back and rethink what is really custom. Is it quality? Price? Or 1 of a kind?

An action that thousands of people have, isnt anymore "custom" than a Nightforce Beast. When you can order ready to ship "custom" actions online in some cases, is it really "custom"? Again, just my opinion.

 

[Pfiddy]

Custom= combination of components assembled to specifications of the buyer.

Doesnt have ave to be a one off from top to bottom. It’s a pretty clearly understood term in the precision rifle world. Don’t let English offend you bud.

 

[Xander3Zero]

Like some of the others here; I also would recommend a cartridge like the 223 Rem if you will be shooting inside of 600 yards frequently. With good hand loads you should still be able to reach out to 1000 as well.

223 is crazy fun to shoot, easy and cheap to reload with plenty of available components and great bullet selection.

If end up going with the TL3 (which I would if you are ready to drop the coin, the TL3 is amazing), caliber selection is less important because you will have switch barrel capability.

But at the same time, there are a lot of great factory rifles out there: Tikka, RPR, howa's new chassis rifle, etc. You really can't go wrong with the path you take, just do some research here and figure out your goals for the rifle.

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[TripleBull]

Ha, Imagine the torture of having that $2500 scope sitting in the safe for months or years while saving the money for a nice build. I never could understand that concept and you never know what the future holds... Live right now.

While I was waiting on my LR rifle to be built, I bought a Razor Gen II for it. But I needed to use the scope, so I mounted it to my AR-10 that had previously only been used for short range plinking. I got to know the limits of that AR-10 out to 1K. It made the days go by faster and got me used to the Razor. Win/win.

 

[TheGerman]

he should also buy him a trimble with FFS and a vectronix PLRF-25C to accurately hit those paper targets at 100.

This guy gets it.

Also, don't forget the data cord and trigger for the Vectronix.

 

[christopher.dow]

+1 for the HCR. Damned good rifle for $1100.


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[seekenq]

I'm in the middle of collecting the parts for a custom build based on a TL3.
Before I decided to go the custom route, I looked at all the long range precision rifles from the various manufacturers and the Bergara's were mighty tempting.
I would certainly look at them before making any final decision on a production rifle.

My $0.02 echos that of others here.
Unless you have a range where you can practice distance > 500 Yards, building a precision 223 "Training" rifle is not a bad way to go.
Much cheaper to shoot while you figure out if you want to get into long distance.
If you build one on the TL3 and then all you need to do is a rebarrel and change the bolt face to get into a 6.5 Creedmoor or ???

 

[stello1001]

I have never owned or handled a custom rifle. Obviously, I want one. I simply don't have that kind of money now. I recently settled on a Howa HCR in 6.5 creedmoor for $867. That got me a sub MOA rifle that was ready to shoot out of the box. After owning it and shooting with it a couple months, I've come to realize that I honestly don't need to get a custom. This howa works very well for me and shoots amazing with factory ammo. If I shoot the barrel out (which will probably take me years), I can get a Pac-nor barrel and keep shooting. Where I'm going with this is, if you don't know whether to get a custom or a Tikka, get the darn Tikka haha. You claim you want to start reloading at one point. You will already have sub MOA with it out of the box. Once you do load development for it, you might be at sub half moa. I'm with Steve and the others who suggested not to wait. Get what you can now and have fun.

 

[chris514scott]

Ok guys. I ordered the Tikka (Found it for $1527 shipped). I figured if I want to upgrade later I can give this one to the wife. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I have recommended the .223 elsewhere, and would be very comfortable shooting it a lot out to at least 600yd. It's just a bunch of fun with a reasonable price tag.

For beyond that, I fall back on the .260 Rem, which I've been shooting out to 1000yd since the year this site was initiated, competing maybe 2 or 3 years at the full distance during that full span. I know the 6.5CM is the more current rage and it's a great chambering, but I'm invested in the 260, and I honestly believe there is a velocity advantage with it over the CM. My current .260 barrel is 28" long and drives 140's at a good 2850-ish fps. It's mounted on a factory Savage 10FP action with some nice bells and whistles (McMillan A3, Sharpshooter Trigger, and a Mueller 8-32x44 scope ). Not the most envied approach, but very adequate to my own abilities.

I too believe in going directly to the chase, and am not really a devotee of custom builds. I have a strong preference for Savage Factory rifles, and they have stood me in good stead since when I first started buying them in 2000. The modern models with factory varmint weight barrels are probably capable of shooting to the abilities of most of the shooters on this site, when handloaded competently.

I am currently in possession of a Savage 11VT .223, and another identical one chambered in .308. The factory barrels will shoot well under 1MOA handloaded competently. Savage is a rifle brand that lends itself very well to owner performed barrel replacements, which I have done myself on a number of occasions. Your scope will merge nicely with a Savage heavy barreled rifle, and serve as a very adequate trainer once skills evolve to the point where a full-on custom build is seriously warranted. Most importantly, it can get you onto the distances ASAP and with a lesser outlay.

Not the cheapest by a healthy margin, the Savage 12 Long Range Precision rifle offers a very well featured package with a 26" barrel, chambered in .243, .260, or 6.5CM. for just under $1300. It's a respectable entry into LR precision shooting.

Greg

PS Aw, heck, I just saw your latest post. Well, I think you're going to be happy with your chpice, and wish you and your Dad much pleasure in your new shared pursuit.