First Long range setup - looking for advice

[UpstateSC]

Hi all,

I’m looking to start long range shooting. I’m not sure where to start and I am looking for advice. My experience is limited to pistols, shotguns, AR-15s. I’m looking in into joining a club about 40 mins from home that has 1000 yds and once a month turn it into a 1-mile range (In the future they plan on extending it to 2000 yards). I’ve seen many comments suggesting starts on a lower recoil caliber like 6.5 cm to help focus on fundamentals. I’m really interest becoming proficient at shooting up to a 1 mile. I realize that a magnum caliber would be more ideal for that range.

This past weekend I was able to tour the club I was thinking of joining. As chance would have it, there was a Pro-Am 3-gun match going on and Barrett Firearms was there showing off the MRAD MK22 in 300 Norma Magnum with a Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm scope and suppressor on the 1-mile range. I got to take a few shots with Barrett’s team member doing the wind calls – great fun, I think I’m hooked.

I want to purchase the right setup to get started and gain experience as quickly as possible, but I am unsure what to buy.

My thoughts were:

Option A:
Buy a medium-priced rifle, say Bergara Wilderness HMR in 6.5cm and put a nice or maybe very nice scope on it (Nightforce ATACR - 5-25x56mm, Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm, or maybe even the Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 PM II FFP GRID). Get comfortable with it. Move up to a custom action & barrel in 300 prc or maybe 300 norma. And reuse/move the nice scope over to the new custom build.

Option B:
Or is it better to start on a custom long action barreled down to a 6.5 cm and then just switch the barrel & bolt to the new larger caliber? Maybe like with an ARC Mausingfield or Terminus Zeus/Kratos?

Option: C
I’m open to suggestions. Should I get a cheaper scope to start on a cheap gun? Should I be looking 308 instead of 6.5 creedmoor? What other factors should I consider?

I want to be practical with my money. On the project in total (all rifles + scope(s)), l I really don't want to spend over $6000, but I don’t mind spending money on utility & quality, but not on designer branding, duplication of use, or looks. (btw 95% of the time I will not have a spotter)

Thank you for your thoughts in advance.

Cheers,

CG

 

[The D]

You’re probably not going to get many recommendations for option A, wrong tool for the job

My choice would be option B, especially if want to build it yourself. I love the idea of firearm LEGOs. The value per dollar you get is unmatched, especially with actions that have a .585 bolt head available

You’re also probably going to get recommendations to buy an entire setup like the Barrett, AI, or Cadex. These are amazing systems but may be at the upper end of your budget and then you need good glass.

Another consideration would be if this is going to be a single use rifle or not. If you need it to be a hunting rifle as well, you’ll want to look toward option B. A simple chassis/stock swap and maybe a lighter scope and mount swap to drop the weight to an acceptable level will save some $$. If you already have other rifles for hunting/shorter range targets and you want the shiny sniper systems, have at it. They are amazing kits

I’m sure I made this more confusing and difficult, you’re welcome/I’m sorry

 

[houndog]

I'm somewhat hesitant to weigh in here, as there are people on this forum with more long range experience and a lot more ELR experience than me. But as someone who came to precision/long range shooting from primarily shooting AR's and pistols I do have a few words of advice.

While there is certainly a lot of validity to the "buy once, cry once" philosophy I would think twice before dropping $6,000 on something you're just taking up. And you should be aware that the costs don't necessarily end with just a rifle and a scope. You're going to want a bipod. Maybe a few bags. Then a range finder. A Kestrel. A spotting scope. A tripod. You get the idea. It can become an expensive rabbit hole. And we're not even talking about ammo. (Do you plan on reloading?).

Honestly, if you're just starting out, you can get a damn nice rifle for under $2,500. Take a look at Masterpiece Arms. Or maybe a Seekins Havak. For less money you could buy a Tikka CTR, ditch/sell the stock and buy the chassis of your choice. Or get a Tikka TAC A1. Any of these rifles will get you to 1000 yards. And if you decide that long range shooting isn't something you want to put a ton of money of effort into, you won't be out $4-5000. Or maybe work, family, etc. may just start getting in the way.

The other advantage of this approach is that, since you are just starting out, you really have no way of knowing what you like/what works for you. This way you can get some trigger time behind a very solid rig, meet and talk to other long range shooters, maybe try a couple of other set ups and then go out and drop $4-5,000 on your dream rifle.

It's true that if you really get into the sport and are determined to get out to 2,000 yards, this approach will ultimately cost you more money. A Tikka TAC A1 in 6.5CM, as good a rifle as it is, won't be able to hang with a custom built LR set up, particularly once you get out beyond 1,000 yards, so you"ll probably end up selling it. But it's a great starter rifle that you can use while you learn the fundamentals of the sport.

 

[ForgeValley]

I'm not far from you in Western NC and belong to the club you are looking at. A couple of thoughts:

You are going to get a lot more use out of a short action 308 bolt face cartridge at Clinton House, 300WM is the max caliber on their steel out to 1000, and as you mention, the mile target is only open on a very limited basis, and with limited time.

I did something very similar to what you are considering, I started with a 6.5 creedmoor and experimented with lots of calibers and different actions, AI's, switch barrel setups, etc.

There are some other ELR opportunities around here that are a better option if you get serious about the long game, but you have to be willing to drive. There is Colemans Creek on the other side of Charlotte that has steel to a mile with no caliber or time limitations. There is Moccasin Valley up past Johnson City that does some ELR matches but is rarely open, they have steel out to 2300 I think.

If it helps, I would start with some tier one glass like a ZCO and a mid range rifle. You'd be surprised what you can put together in the custom world for 3K, or watch the Exchange here. The ZCO 5x27 is a great scope for everything you'd want to use it for, and has enough elevation to get you to that long shot at Mocassin Valley with a suitable ELR cartridge like 300 Norma or better.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I would consider a long action with a Swichlug. I have one on an MPA in short action and basicly I can do a barrel swap in a couple minutes with just a torque wrench.

The long action will let you switch calibers quickly while using a single scope, action, trigger & stock to save money vs seperate rifles. If you get two bolt faces you could have one barrel bolt for 6mm/6.5mm whatever and another for a better distance round like 300PRC.

People have been shooting short action calibers out of long actions for a long time and it works well.

SWITCHLUG – West Texas Ordnance, Inc. | Custom Rifles & Accessories

 

[NewsShooter]

I'm for option C, since you're new and don't have any experience yet, spend less and shoot more. IMO trigger time is more important at this stage than a custom rifle. Now if you have custom rifle money then go ahead. While it isn't optimum, a 6.5 CM will go a mile. But there's a lot to learn at 1000, the distance isn't difficult, but the wind will kick your ass at less than 1000 yards.

Good glass is never a bad choice, Mk5, NF, Khales, Vortex, burris pro, they all work well and are dependable. Even my Athlon Cronus is more than sufficient. These days I would buy an action, trigger, chassis, prefit barrel and put it together myself. But for you I'd suggest one of the "production" rifles, from MPA, GAP, Badrock, deep south tactical, ARC. All are in the $2500 range, but they're already assembled for you. The other good option is a Tikka CTR, bravo chassis, and lots of ammo for learning.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm going to suggest that you get 2 separate rifles.

1 rifle in 6.5cm (or your choice of similar) that will be your everyday shooting rifle, easy 1k hits, can hunt with it etc.
1 rifle in .300NM for when you want the easy button to hit 1 mile and be able to confidently do 2000 yards.

You could always get an Accuracy International or Barrett multi-caliber platform that does both, BUT you'll spend just as much on that as you would on 2 semi custom rigs, so up to you. (Think $10k for either one at least by the time you are done with bolts, barrels, magazines etc. if going new.).

If you have the budget, go nice semi-custom on both rifles.
If you are a poor, then start with a good factory 6.5cm like the Tikka T3X CTR and shoot it, then customize it when money permits,
Then when more money permits move on to rifle 2

Get some good glass (that you can afford), something like a ZCO, TT, or on the more affordable end a Vortex Razor and other similar lines, or a used decently priced S&B 5-25 x56
(Note, if you see a Vortex scope you like, you owe it to yourself to call up Scott at Liberty Optics and see what deal he can make you), or PM to @LibertyOptics and ask them to give you a call and discuss it.

If you are ONLY going to be using the rifle for range work, talk to Scott about the Vortex RAZOR HD GEN III 6-36X56 FFP Scope
You might find the price is right and it will be a long time before you are ready to pay the money to step up to anything that would be actually better.

Get 1 good scope rather than 2 half decent ones and just move the scope between rifles as needed. If you have a quality quick disconnect single piece mount and know exactly where to mount the scope each time, you can simply zero on your more commonly used rifle, then remember the offset for what the zero is on the less used one. Then later if funds permit, get a second scope.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I would consider a long action with a Swichlug. I have one on an MPA in short action and basicly I can do a barrel swap in a couple minutes with just a torque wrench.

The long action will let you switch calibers quickly while using a single scope, action, trigger & stock to save money vs seperate rifles. If you get two bolt faces you could have one barrel bolt for 6mm/6.5mm whatever and another for a better distance round like 300PRC.

People have been shooting short action calibers out of long actions for a long time and it works well.

SWITCHLUG – West Texas Ordnance, Inc. | Custom Rifles & Accessories

View attachment 7969739

If you go this route you can put together your every day rifle and when you want to go longer, just buy a bolt and barrel in new caliber.

$6k should put together a great rifle and afford good glass, especially with all the used scopes around.

 

[PJC]

I am a member at the facility as well and participated in several mile day shoots.

Start with a decent optic as others have suggested that you wont outgrow. Your resale downside is small with a high quality optic.

There are several 6 and 6.5 options that can reach the mile steel but it’s not easy. 1k is a cinch.

Reliable repeatable hits at the mile are possible with long action cartridges shooting high bc projectiles. There are many available.

Feel free to pm and I can detail my setup and experience.

Above all…enjoy, it’s a ton of fun.

 

[rlsmith1]

Hi all,

I’m looking to start long range shooting. I’m not sure where to start and I am looking for advice. My experience is limited to pistols, shotguns, AR-15s. I’m looking in into joining a club about 40 mins from home that has 1000 yds and once a month turn it into a 1-mile range (In the future they plan on extending it to 2000 yards). I’ve seen many comments suggesting starts on a lower recoil caliber like 6.5 cm to help focus on fundamentals. I’m really interest becoming proficient at shooting up to a 1 mile. I realize that a magnum caliber would be more ideal for that range.

This past weekend I was able to tour the club I was thinking of joining. As chance would have it, there was a Pro-Am 3-gun match going on and Barrett Firearms was there showing off the MRAD MK22 in 300 Norma Magnum with a Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm scope and suppressor on the 1-mile range. I got to take a few shots with Barrett’s team member doing the wind calls – great fun, I think I’m hooked.

I want to purchase the right setup to get started and gain experience as quickly as possible, but I am unsure what to buy.

My thoughts were:

Option A:
Buy a medium-priced rifle, say Bergara Wilderness HMR in 6.5cm and put a nice or maybe very nice scope on it (Nightforce ATACR - 5-25x56mm, Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56mm, or maybe even the Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 PM II FFP GRID). Get comfortable with it. Move up to a custom action & barrel in 300 prc or maybe 300 norma. And reuse/move the nice scope over to the new custom build.

Option B:
Or is it better to start on a custom long action barreled down to a 6.5 cm and then just switch the barrel & bolt to the new larger caliber? Maybe like with an ARC Mausingfield or Terminus Zeus/Kratos?

Option: C
I’m open to suggestions. Should I get a cheaper scope to start on a cheap gun? Should I be looking 308 instead of 6.5 creedmoor? What other factors should I consider?

I want to be practical with my money. On the project in total (all rifles + scope(s)), l I really don't want to spend over $6000, but I don’t mind spending money on utility & quality, but not on designer branding, duplication of use, or looks. (btw 95% of the time I will not have a spotter)

Thank you for your thoughts in advance.

Cheers,

CG

Personally, I'd go Option B (that's what I did). Unless you get really spendy on a scope, you should have no trouble staying under $6k.

I'd go Zeus, chassis of your choice (I went KRG Bravo) and a couple barrels / bolts. I think this gives you some good options (a) you can stick a 26" MTU barrel on and have a ~17lb rifle (b) you can stick a lighter profile / carbon barrel on and have a ~13lb rifle for field use if you want. This flexibility means you are only a $500 to $900 barrel away from a "new" rifle rather than spending more on a complete system (good glass isn't cheap).

On the 308 vs 6.5, it really depends. I have shot almost exclusively 308 since I bought this rifle in an effort to get better. If you go the QC route, you are only a barrel away if you decide you want more range. There's a thread happening now on 300 PRC vs 300 NM so that might be worth a read too. 300 PRC has great factory ammo and the Norma is fun to reload for.

My biggest concern was if changing barrels would require a new zero every time I changed calibers. While a new zero is needed, it is really only a fine tuning of the zero. Yesterday, I made hits at 460 with the 308, and then went 3/4 with the 300 WM and 2/4 with the 6.5. Keep in mind, I had zero idea where the barrels were impacting relative to the 308 so my misses were really learning where my bullets were landing. I now know that with the 308 barrel zeroed, my 300 WM shoots 1 MIL left, and the 6.5 shoots 1 MIL left and a couple clicks high. Will you go from shooting 1 MOA targets at a mile with the Norma and then go to shooting 1 MOA targets at 500 with the 6.5 CM? Probably not without some minor corrections, but if you build the rifle accurately, zeroing should be a breeze.

 

[Long Range 338]

All of your options are doable and would work for the job. I haven't read thru all the other responses so pardon if I repeat.

I didn't see anything about reloading so I assume you are just shooting factory ammunition. Consider availability and cost of ammo as part of the training required to accomplish your goals. 308 and 6.5CM are probably the best bang for your buck.

Your equipment options looked pretty good and it seems like you're on the right track in buying quality equipment. Sure you can save a buck but long term you would want to upgrade so if you can start with better equipment you're not looking to upgrade it right off the bat. If the ultimate goal is 1 mile or more the 300 NM is a great option but will limit your choice if trying to use one platform as you need the larger boltface. For multi caliber systems I would put them in this order: Accuracy International, Cadex, Barrett, Desert Tech. AI as top dog because of the aftermarket support but Cadex is VERY good as well, just hasn't got the support from aftermarket. Barrett has some aftermarket support but with the current military contracts getting a rifle could be difficult and caliber changes as well. Desert Tech has its fans but isn't as popular as it used to be - probably due to the bullpup design. These systems will allow you to train with one system, use only one optic, and allow you to grow as you need to.

Don't forget to invest in some quality training, its the best shortcut you can get.

 

[redbullitt]

Dont skimp on the optics. Buy once and enjoy it.

A 6.5 creed or 260 rem or similar will do well, not make you twitchy learning, be affordable to shoot AND do a good job on targets even beyond 1k.

A 308 will get you better barrel life, maybe easier to source components or ammo. It will make it easy for you to swap to 260 or 6.5c if you want as well. Wind will blow the bullet more, but you will do fine with it as well. Youre practicing long range shooting right?!

A 223 wylde bolt rifle would do very well too. Affordable to feed, great for practice of fundamentals and reading wind. I shoot a 223 with 69smk and 77smk out to 800 yards regularly. Its easier to hit and spot with the 308 or 6.5, but if the rifle is intended for you to learn on, then i think the 223 isa great pick. You'll shoot it more, plain and simple, and youll get better.

Something along the lines of option b would be my plan. Id save as long as needed to get a good rifle and scope AND LOADING GEAR if at all possible.

IF waiting and saving is not an option, id go for good scope, good 308 6.5 or 223 rifle, and most importantly some affordable loading tools and supplies, a lee handpress, scale, and dies can do just fine and fit in a shoebox.

 

[want to be]

I'm not far from you in Western NC and belong to the club you are looking at. A couple of thoughts:

You are going to get a lot more use out of a short action 308 bolt face cartridge at Clinton House, 300WM is the max caliber on their steel out to 1000, and as you mention, the mile target is only open on a very limited basis, and with limited time.

I did something very similar to what you are considering, I started with a 6.5 creedmoor and experimented with lots of calibers and different actions, AI's, switch barrel setups, etc.

There are some other ELR opportunities around here that are a better option if you get serious about the long game, but you have to be willing to drive. There is Colemans Creek on the other side of Charlotte that has steel to a mile with no caliber or time limitations. There is Moccasin Valley up past Johnson City that does some ELR matches but is rarely open, they have steel out to 2300 I think.

If it helps, I would start with some tier one glass like a ZCO and a mid range rifle. You'd be surprised what you can put together in the custom world for 3K, or watch the Exchange here. The ZCO 5x27 is a great scope for everything you'd want to use it for, and has enough elevation to get you to that long shot at Mocassin Valley with a suitable ELR cartridge like 300 Norma or better.

ForgeValley, Could you please tell me more about Moccasin Valley I am near Johnson City and would like to get in touch with them.

 

[ForgeValley]

ForgeValley, Could you please tell me more about Moccasin Valley I am near Johnson City and would like to get in touch with them.

Most of the info I have found is on their Mocassin Valley Precision facebook page. I've not been up there yet, they run some elr matches and seem to be open 1 Saturday a month, but they aren't great communicators. I was signed up for the match week after next, but had to withdraw due to work. There are still plenty of slots for that match. Let me know if you find anything out, I was hoping to make some contact with them at the match.

 

[long range sponge]

Origin SA, stock/chassis of choice, barrels in 223/308/6.5 CM/7SAUM. Should cover what you'll need. I believe @Steelhead shoots his SAUM out to around 2k or better.

 

[UpstateSC]

Wow! - This is a lot help. Many great ideas to parse through. Thank you all for taking the time to give me suggestions. I really appreciate it.

 

[UpstateSC]

My choice would be option B, especially if want to build it yourself. I love the idea of firearm LEGOs. The value per dollar you get is unmatched, especially with actions that have a .585 bolt head available

Another consideration would be if this is going to be a single use rifle or not. If you need it to be a hunting rifle as well, you’ll want to look toward option B. A simple chassis/stock swap and maybe a lighter scope and mount swap to drop the weight to an acceptable level will save some $$. If you already have other rifles for hunting/shorter range targets and you want the shiny sniper systems, have at it. They are amazing kits

I like the LEGOs idea too. I enjoy putting things together myself and working with my hands. I did this on ARs, I wasn't sure if it was recommended on Bolt-actions too. Its a great feeling when you do something yourself. I'm not, at this time into hunting. I think I'll pick it up after I master Long range target shooting. Not that I want to hunt things long range (I believe in ethical "clean kill" hunting). I just don't have the time currently.

I'm somewhat hesitant to weigh in here, as there are people on this forum with more long range experience and a lot more ELR experience than me. But as someone who came to precision/long range shooting from primarily shooting AR's and pistols I do have a few words of advice.

While there is certainly a lot of validity to the "buy once, cry once" philosophy I would think twice before dropping $6,000 on something you're just taking up. And you should be aware that the costs don't necessarily end with just a rifle and a scope. You're going to want a bipod. Maybe a few bags. Then a range finder. A Kestrel. A spotting scope. A tripod. You get the idea. It can become an expensive rabbit hole. And we're not even talking about ammo. (Do you plan on reloading?).

It's true that if you really get into the sport and are determined to get out to 2,000 yards, this approach will ultimately cost you more money. A Tikka TAC A1 in 6.5CM, as good a rifle as it is, won't be able to hang with a custom built LR set up, particularly once you get out beyond 1,000 yards, so you"ll probably end up selling it. But it's a great starter rifle that you can use while you learn the fundamentals of the sport.

You make strong points about the additional cost of accessory equipment and not overspending until I'm sure what I like best.

Why do I see a lot of people on the this forum like Tikka more than Bergara? The reason I chooe Bergara in my Option A is because I called Beretta tech support about the Sako s20 series and asked questions about the bull vs fluted barrel versions. They were very nice and honest with me and said that Beretta USA doesn't really do good support on the Sako/Tikka rifles compared to Beretta product lines. Per that conversation I kinda ruled out Sako & Tikka, because it would be just my luck, I'd get a lemon.

I'm not far from you in Western NC and belong to the club you are looking at. A couple of thoughts:

You are going to get a lot more use out of a short action 308 bolt face cartridge at Clinton House, 300WM is the max caliber on their steel out to 1000, and as you mention, the mile target is only open on a very limited basis, and with limited time.

I did something very similar to what you are considering, I started with a 6.5 creedmoor and experimented with lots of calibers and different actions, AI's, switch barrel setups, etc.

There are some other ELR opportunities around here that are a better option if you get serious about the long game, but you have to be willing to drive. There is Colemans Creek on the other side of Charlotte that has steel to a mile with no caliber or time limitations. There is Moccasin Valley up past Johnson City that does some ELR matches but is rarely open, they have steel out to 2300 I think.

If it helps, I would start with some tier one glass like a ZCO and a mid range rifle. You'd be surprised what you can put together in the custom world for 3K, or watch the Exchange here. The ZCO 5x27 is a great scope for everything you'd want to use it for, and has enough elevation to get you to that long shot at Mocassin Valley with a suitable ELR cartridge like 300 Norma or better.

Nice deduction! Yes, Clinton House is where I was talking about. I called their office after I read your post about the 1000 range capped at 300 WM. They told me that 300 PRC would be ok on the 1000 yard range as well. So looks like another good caliber option there.

I might try visiting Coleman's Creek, if I'm out that way heading to Wilmington to see family. Johnson City is a bit far north for me to visit on the regular though.

Zero Compromise scope I'm not familiar with and never seen in a store. Their prices are really high. How does the glass and mechanism compare to Nightforce, Leupold, SB? Is it worth it?

I would consider a long action with a Swichlug. I have one on an MPA in short action and basicly I can do a barrel swap in a couple minutes with just a torque wrench.

The long action will let you switch calibers quickly while using a single scope, action, trigger & stock to save money vs seperate rifles. If you get two bolt faces you could have one barrel bolt for 6mm/6.5mm whatever and another for a better distance round like 300PRC.

People have been shooting short action calibers out of long actions for a long time and it works well.

I like the switchlug idea? How does it compare to REMage?

I'm for option C, since you're new and don't have any experience yet, spend less and shoot more. IMO trigger time is more important at this stage than a custom rifle. Now if you have custom rifle money then go ahead. While it isn't optimum, a 6.5 CM will go a mile. But there's a lot to learn at 1000, the distance isn't difficult, but the wind will kick your ass at less than 1000 yards.

Good glass is never a bad choice, Mk5, NF, Khales, Vortex, burris pro, they all work well and are dependable. Even my Athlon Cronus is more than sufficient. These days I would buy an action, trigger, chassis, prefit barrel and put it together myself. But for you I'd suggest one of the "production" rifles, from MPA, GAP, Badrock, deep south tactical, ARC. All are in the $2500 range, but they're already assembled for you. The other good option is a Tikka CTR, bravo chassis, and lots of ammo for learning.

How do prefit barrels compare for precision against factory Tikka?

If you are ONLY going to be using the rifle for range work, talk to Scott about the Vortex RAZOR HD GEN III 6-36X56 FFP Scope
You might find the price is right and it will be a long time before you are ready to pay the money to step up to anything that would be actually better.

Get 1 good scope rather than 2 half decent ones and just move the scope between rifles as needed. If you have a quality quick disconnect single piece mount and know exactly where to mount the scope each time, you can simply zero on your more commonly used rifle, then remember the offset for what the zero is on the less used one. Then later if funds permit, get a second scope.

On reticles that I have only seen online, the S&B GR²ID and Zero Compromise MPCT3x look nice - Any thoughts?

I am a member at the facility as well and participated in several mile day shoots.

Start with a decent optic as others have suggested that you wont outgrow. Your resale downside is small with a high quality optic.

There are several 6 and 6.5 options that can reach the mile steel but it’s not easy. 1k is a cinch.

Reliable repeatable hits at the mile are possible with long action cartridges shooting high bc projectiles. There are many available.

Feel free to pm and I can detail my setup and experience.

Above all…enjoy, it’s a ton of fun.

I've never sold a rifle or scope - what is the typical resale percentage?

Personally, I'd go Option B (that's what I did). Unless you get really spendy on a scope, you should have no trouble staying under $6k.

I'd go Zeus, chassis of your choice (I went KRG Bravo) and a couple barrels / bolts. I think this gives you some good options (a) you can stick a 26" MTU barrel on and have a ~17lb rifle (b) you can stick a lighter profile / carbon barrel on and have a ~13lb rifle for field use if you want. This flexibility means you are only a $500 to $900 barrel away from a "new" rifle rather than spending more on a complete system (good glass isn't cheap).

On the 308 vs 6.5, it really depends. I have shot almost exclusively 308 since I bought this rifle in an effort to get better. If you go the QC route, you are only a barrel away if you decide you want more range. There's a thread happening now on 300 PRC vs 300 NM so that might be worth a read too. 300 PRC has great factory ammo and the Norma is fun to reload for.

My biggest concern was if changing barrels would require a new zero every time I changed calibers. While a new zero is needed, it is really only a fine tuning of the zero. Yesterday, I made hits at 460 with the 308, and then went 3/4 with the 300 WM and 2/4 with the 6.5. Keep in mind, I had zero idea where the barrels were impacting relative to the 308 so my misses were really learning where my bullets were landing. I now know that with the 308 barrel zeroed, my 300 WM shoots 1 MIL left, and the 6.5 shoots 1 MIL left and a couple clicks high. Will you go from shooting 1 MOA targets at a mile with the Norma and then go to shooting 1 MOA targets at 500 with the 6.5 CM? Probably not without some minor corrections, but if you build the rifle accurately, zeroing should be a breeze.

MTU vs Palma -what is the advantage in the MTU? How is your Zeus action? How would you compare the Zeus QC system to the switchlug system?

All of your options are doable and would work for the job. I haven't read thru all the other responses so pardon if I repeat.

I didn't see anything about reloading so I assume you are just shooting factory ammunition. Consider availability and cost of ammo as part of the training required to accomplish your goals. 308 and 6.5CM are probably the best bang for your buck.

Your equipment options looked pretty good and it seems like you're on the right track in buying quality equipment. Sure you can save a buck but long term you would want to upgrade so if you can start with better equipment you're not looking to upgrade it right off the bat. If the ultimate goal is 1 mile or more the 300 NM is a great option but will limit your choice if trying to use one platform as you need the larger boltface. For multi caliber systems I would put them in this order: Accuracy International, Cadex, Barrett, Desert Tech. AI as top dog because of the aftermarket support but Cadex is VERY good as well, just hasn't got the support from aftermarket. Barrett has some aftermarket support but with the current military contracts getting a rifle could be difficult and caliber changes as well. Desert Tech has its fans but isn't as popular as it used to be - probably due to the bullpup design. These systems will allow you to train with one system, use only one optic, and allow you to grow as you need to.

Don't forget to invest in some quality training, its the best shortcut you can get.

At first I plan just to use factory ammo and save the brass. Later I'll probably take up reloading too. Any recommendation for training in SC, east GA or southwest NC?

Dont skimp on the optics. Buy once and enjoy it.

A 6.5 creed or 260 rem or similar will do well, not make you twitchy learning, be affordable to shoot AND do a good job on targets even beyond 1k.

A 308 will get you better barrel life, maybe easier to source components or ammo. It will make it easy for you to swap to 260 or 6.5c if you want as well. Wind will blow the bullet more, but you will do fine with it as well. Youre practicing long range shooting right?!

A 223 wylde bolt rifle would do very well too. Affordable to feed, great for practice of fundamentals and reading wind. I shoot a 223 with 69smk and 77smk out to 800 yards regularly. Its easier to hit and spot with the 308 or 6.5, but if the rifle is intended for you to learn on, then i think the 223 isa great pick. You'll shoot it more, plain and simple, and youll get better.

Something along the lines of option b would be my plan. Id save as long as needed to get a good rifle and scope AND LOADING GEAR if at all possible.

IF waiting and saving is not an option, id go for good scope, good 308 6.5 or 223 rifle, and most importantly some affordable loading tools and supplies, a lee handpress, scale, and dies can do just fine and fit in a shoebox.

I Won't skimp on the optic - But I cringe at the price, not just because it is expensive; It's because whatever I spend on my setup I'll spend it twice over, because my wife will feel justified in buying an equivalent purse! C'est la vie.

Origin SA, stock/chassis of choice, barrels in 223/308/6.5 CM/7SAUM. Should cover what you'll need. I believe @Steelhead shoots his SAUM out to around 2k or better.

You mean Zermatt Origin Action? Who is the best value gunsmith to built it? or did you mean use a prefit and put it together myself?

 

[rlsmith1]

@UpstateSC I was looking at the Switchlug too, but the Zeus QC has so many more barrel options without going to a custom smith. I love being able to loosen 2 allen screws and remove / install the barrel by hand. I love my Zeus and I'm sure you'd be happy with the Switchlug too.

MTU vs Palma I can't really tell you because I've only had MTU on this one. I think the MTU is heavier so advantages would be more material for a more stable platform and more tolerable of heat (all at the cost of maneuverability). My next barrel will probably be a carbon 22" in 6 Creed or similar for night hunts. Related to weight, I bought a KRG Bravo with the intention of selling it down the road for a chassis but I don't know if I will do that. The Bravo is light enough that the largest influence on the platform weight is the barrel / optic. Want something heavy? Run a 26"+ heavy contour. Want something you can move with? Lighter contour in the 20" to 24" range is what you're after. You can go between the two within 3 minutes

 

[ForgeValley]

Nice deduction! Yes, Clinton House is where I was talking about. I called their office after I read your post about the 1000 range capped at 300 WM. They told me that 300 PRC would be ok on the 1000 yard range as well. So looks like another good caliber option there.

I might try visiting Coleman's Creek, if I'm out that way heading to Wilmington to see family. Johnson City is a bit far north for me to visit on the regular though.

Zero Compromise scope I'm not familiar with and never seen in a store. Their prices are really high. How does the glass and mechanism compare to Nightforce, Leupold, SB? Is it worth it?



At first I plan just to use factory ammo and save the brass. Later I'll probably take up reloading too. Any recommendation for training in SC, east GA or southwest NC?

I'm no Sherlock Holmes, it is just the one of the few around in upstate SC and I knew they had the match there.

Yes, I took the 300 WM limit to be vaguely interpreted to include other .30 cal magnums, I've even shot 300 Norma there. Shhhhhh! Just don't try with 338. ;-)

Is the ZCO worth it over the other's you listed? It is for me, but I was mostly referring to the 35 mils of elevation in the ZCO.. that gets you out to almost any distance you will find around here without a prism or charlie, depending on cartridge of course. Just checked the NF ATACR 7-35 and it has 29 mils, so that would be a great choice as well. Come to think of it, I owned one for a short while before I got the ZCO.

Both Colemans Creek and Sawmill Training Complex offer precision rifle classes, STC is just west of Clinton House.

 

[W54/XM-388]

@UpstateSC
On the reticles, you really have to decide for yourself what you like, I can't tell you what to get, it's a very personal thing.
The brands all have pictures online.

That being said, on the whole the MPCT3x is way more popular than the GR²ID, however there are a quite a lot of folks who swear by the Horus or the
Tremor3 / Tremor5 reticles.

Hunting or shooting at the range tend to be better with simple uncluttered reticles.
Playing PRS games tends to be where everybody wants the fancy cluttered reticles.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

I only have experience with the swichlug so can't compare to REMage. But MPA has my rifles specs on file and all I need to do to get a new barrel is order it.

 

[acudaowner]

I like which ever option your comfortable paying for 6.5 will easily make 1k feel like cheating not that it's the best choice out there or the only , it is a good one and it should take you out to a mile if you ever find a range to shoot that far .
not sure how much your scope is going to cost you but if your happy with it that's all that matters , just to point out arken has a 5x25 that would only cost you 600 ish and it comes with rings mount and it's ready to be sighted in .bi pod that's totally up to you spend your money how ever it is you want to best wishes as you embark on your lr adventure it is very addicting . and no matter which caliber you pick to start with save your brass even if you don't reload now you never know what you might choose to do in the future . Any day at the range is a good day .

 

[long range sponge]

@UpstateSC Zermatt Origin was exactly what I was referring to. You could honestly choose from a wide variety of custom actions and be just as happy if not happier than with the Origin. I suggested it because it's about the most budget friendly action that has swappable bolt heads. Heck, grab a Tikka and just buy replacement bolts. @Front Range Precision frequently runs some amazing deals on lots of different actions. @bohem and the gang at PVA are pretty nice to deal with as well.

 

[The D]

I like the LEGOs idea too. I enjoy putting things together myself and working with my hands. I did this on ARs, I wasn't sure if it was recommended on Bolt-actions too. Its a great feeling when you do something yourself. I'm not, at this time into hunting. I think I'll pick it up after I master Long range target shooting. Not that I want to hunt things long range (I believe in ethical "clean kill" hunting). I just don't have the time currently.

I’m a mechanic so that’s my draw to as much diy stuff as I can.

 

[NewsShooter]

Prefit barrels are as good, almost always better than the factory barrel. You also get to spec the contour, length, twist, and chamber. I had a 7 saum barrel made for one of my Tikka's, it's a combo range/hunting gun. Light Palma contour, 24 inches, 8.5 twist, chambered for 180 grain bullets without needing to seat them deep. OAL on the bullets is about 3.2.
All Tikka actions are both long and short, it's a bolt stop change. You also couldn't shoot a 300 PRC in them, it just won't fit as the LA tikka is shorter than a rem700 footprint magnum LA. They're more like a medium action.

 

[pmclaine]

Research everything and when you come across products that cause you to salivate, upset your stomach and make your balls tingle that will be the only product that will be right for you mentally.

If you settle for something you are not mentally and physically invested in you will not be happy with it and it will be money wasted.

You may later grow out of that gear but you will not regret buying it.

 

[BH30-06]

You seem like you would really like to get out there in distances and I respect that, but I would wait.
You have experience with firearms which is good it all helps.
But building a rifle that will consistently shoot out to a mile would be a waste if you can only do it once a month, I know you didn’t say that’s what you exactly wnated to do but in my opinion there’s some Better options.
For a caliber to start off on any 6.5mm would probably be good as there the latest and greatest, I started my more long range introduction with a 260 rem, especially being a hand loader it’s a great cartridge. I learned to shoot with a 30-06. If you really want to learn your wind and to be anal about everything, start off with a 308, good cheap ammo everywhere, maybe not as much now, and the recoil isn’t all that bad especially with a brake. If you plan on hand-loading go with whatever cartridge you desire, just remeber the hotrods will burn barrels quickly. I say if you want a 6.5 go creedmoor if you want factory ammo or 260 if you handload, both will perform in very similar manners. And if you really want to learn get a 308.
I say get a good scope before you focus on your rifle, look around here on the hide, you will find a lot of good options. If you can swing a NF, TT, or S&B go for it, it will help you out a lot. But again if you really want to learn the harder way get a fixed 10 on a 308.
There’s a lot of good factory rifles that will help you out now, and there is a plethora of custom actions, especially more budget friendly actions and they are all great, just find features you want and go with it. It’s hard to go wrong. A good trigger is a must, and learning to control that trigger is even more important. What I have is a rem action, a Krieger barrel, in an mdt chassis, I’ve learned the fundamentals and how to use it and what I like and dislike about it, my next rifle will be much different but also similar in some ways. Find soemthing that is appealing to you and has good features and just learn to shoot good. And if you really like it, get a few rifles. If you want a dedicated LR rig for a mile go for it. But get a good learner first.

 

[Zuul]

If you don’t have a soild base/fundamentals then your going to struggle to make consistent hits at distance. I’m sure we have all seen that one guy at the range pissed off at his expensive gear because he can’t hit anything. Get the best scope you can afford, a factory gun/caliber you can shoot comfortably for an extended period of time, and a metric shit ton of ammo. We all need to walk before we can run, shoot until you are blue in the face and work your way out to 1000 + yards, then drop the coin on a custom rifle in a heavy caliber.

 

[BP 3papa 7sierra]

There are plenty of shooters here better than me, but I can tell you that it takes work to get out to a mile, especially with a 308. However, if you take your time to learn how to read the wind and develop strong fundamentals, you will find yourself hitting targets farther away with more frequency. You need to decide what path you want to take getting there. I am a fan of starting with a 308 for its mild recoil, variety of ammo and barrel life compared to some other calibers. Further, it will allow you to enter the game cheaper than many other options. Continue to read here and ask questions, find a good class to attend where you can start off with instruction about how to set up your rifle correctly and reinforce good habits from go. This will ultimately save you a lot of time, money, and heartache.

 

[ELCO82]

I spent years spending money on all my nice rifles before I finally bought great glass.... I wish I would have reversed that and bought a high end scope first. That glass will be with you for a long time. It'll easily swap from some POS rifle to whatever high end rifle you eventually end up with when you figure out what you want

 

[spamassassin]

A decent rifle designed to be multi-cal switch barrel and that's going to be accurate, repeatably accurate and all that jazz is going to cost about $15k-20k all in with the scope, mount, extra barrels and bolts, mags and other crap. One option is an AI ASR. Another is AI AXMC. Another is Desert Tech SRS A2 or M2. There are others from Sako and others. I went the latter route. In the box is a DT M2 with 5 barrels from .223Rem on up to .338LM with bolts mags tools and all the goodies. It works from <100m to >1600m. I would probably go 6.5CM and call it a day until you find something you want to do that you can't do with that. A 6.5CM will shoot to a mile about as well as anything in the same case capacity class. Most any decent off the rack rifle model can do it, some are better than others for it. Good glass is critical but you don't need tier1 just to accomplish long range shots. Consistency is really what costs the money.