Sidearms & Scatterguns First Pistol?

#51
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Feel means nothing to me. I will adapt to the feel. </div></div>

On second thought, get the glock. I think its perfect for you.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Maybe the OP will read into this and Veej's "holy fuck, WOW" response from the previous page and then read between the big-ass lines?</div></div>

Nope. </div></div>

Either way I done with this thread since it has gone off the deep end. I am going to buy both. A Glock and M&P.

Thanks to everyone for their responses!
 
#53
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Whatever OP means.</span> Why does everyone on these forums think it is cool to start shit. Most of the time they can't shoot or whatever the forum is about. Good for you man you are a real badass! </div></div>

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Yeah, baby ... you down with OP ... P?
 
#55
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where the hell do these people come from? </div></div>

From what I can tell, this particular one is probably from Michigan, although this should not be taken as a blanket statement about the state or its denizens as a whole.
 
#56
Re: First Pistol?

I have a bunch of Glocks. Depends on what you want to use them for. For carry, the G27 in .40 is a real good choice. I use that or the G29 10mm in Milt Sparks VM2's on a good gun belt. To me, the 10mm just handles better and is more accurate than you would imagine (in my hands anyway) with mediocre handloads.

For a first Glock, the G23 or G19, depending on whether you want 9mm or .40, wouldn't be a bad choice. They are concealable but handle much better than the G27 and G26 (you may want one of those later --they'll take the larger magazines too for backups).

Then again, if you want full size, the G17 and G22 or the 34 and 35, they aren't bad choices either and you can use them in IDPA matches with some success. Those size mags also fit the G26 and G27 --I use G22 mags for backups in the G27.

The G20SF and G21 are nice too, but bigger, wider than your .40's and 9mm's. For .45, for a big pistol, the FN with 16rds. is hard to beat in that area. For a reliable high capacity 10mm, the G20 is pretty much it.

There are also other good choices, though I tend to stick with Glocks and Smith 3rd gens. and revolvers mostly due to familiarity, but I've heard good about Walther P99's and others, M&P's, FN's for larger ones, and the XD's have a good following too. You should find one that fits you in the calibre you prefer.

Again, .40 is pretty common and gaining popularity over 9mm as it is just a more efficient round for defense in the same size platforms. Basically a watered down 10mm to fit those smaller platforms, it isn't anything to sneeze at. Capacity is good, and recoil is usually just slightly snappier than 9mm+P loads IMO.

I really don't need to go into simplicity and reliability of the Glocks. Just make sure to get a Gen. 3 --they are cheaper right now and until they unfuck the Gen. 4's I'd stay away from them. Too many problems reported on them, but none of my Gen. 3's or the early Gen. 2 have problems.

Keep 'em stock save the sights. I like Trijicon, but get something to replace the plastic. I handload and use aftermarket springs and recoil rods, but not on carry pieces, not unless tuned for it. You can ruin a Glock with aftermarket stuff if you aren't damn sure of what you are doing and know what to use.
 
#57
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamescaan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where the hell do these people come from? </div></div>

From what I can tell, this particular one is probably from Michigan, although this should not be taken as a blanket statement about the state or its denizens as a whole.</div></div>


Yeah. I'm thinking you inadvertently insulted a bunch of Michiganites. Michiganers. Michiganese? Whatever they are.
 
#60
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Strykervet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a bunch of Glocks. Depends on what you want to use them for. For carry, the G27 in .40 is a real good choice. I use that or the G29 10mm in Milt Sparks VM2's on a good gun belt. To me, the 10mm just handles better and is more accurate than you would imagine (in my hands anyway) with mediocre handloads.

For a first Glock, the G23 or G19, depending on whether you want 9mm or .40, wouldn't be a bad choice. They are concealable but handle much better than the G27 and G26 (you may want one of those later --they'll take the larger magazines too for backups).

Then again, if you want full size, the G17 and G22 or the 34 and 35, they aren't bad choices either and you can use them in IDPA matches with some success. Those size mags also fit the G26 and G27 --I use G22 mags for backups in the G27.

The G20SF and G21 are nice too, but bigger, wider than your .40's and 9mm's. For .45, for a big pistol, the FN with 16rds. is hard to beat in that area. For a reliable high capacity 10mm, the G20 is pretty much it.

There are also other good choices, though I tend to stick with Glocks and Smith 3rd gens. and revolvers mostly due to familiarity, but I've heard good about Walther P99's and others, M&P's, FN's for larger ones, and the XD's have a good following too. You should find one that fits you in the calibre you prefer.

Again, .40 is pretty common and gaining popularity over 9mm as it is just a more efficient round for defense in the same size platforms. Basically a watered down 10mm to fit those smaller platforms, it isn't anything to sneeze at. Capacity is good, and recoil is usually just slightly snappier than 9mm+P loads IMO.

I really don't need to go into simplicity and reliability of the Glocks. Just make sure to get a Gen. 3 --they are cheaper right now and until they unfuck the Gen. 4's I'd stay away from them. Too many problems reported on them, but none of my Gen. 3's or the early Gen. 2 have problems.

Keep 'em stock save the sights. I like Trijicon, but get something to replace the plastic. I handload and use aftermarket springs and recoil rods, but not on carry pieces, not unless tuned for it. You can ruin a Glock with aftermarket stuff if you aren't damn sure of what you are doing and know what to use. </div></div>

Thanks man I appreciate the response. I was looking at the long barrel Glock 9mm yesterday (sorry dont remember the number) and it seemed very nice. I would like a full size because it is only for target not for carry. I almost bought that Glock but I decided to wait and check out a few others before I buy. I am glad I didn't now that you said not to buy a gen 4 because 99% sure it was.
 
#61
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gotta/start/sumwer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im dying to get my hands on a 1911, but that may not be a first timers choice. Im not big on 9s but with that said this is all going to come down to your hand, what fits you and your personal prefrence.. they said it best when they said go to range and rent and try them out.. very good idea </div></div>

It's not like I haven't shot pistols before I just dont own one. I would love a 1911 does anyone make a $500-$600 piece? </div></div>

None worth owning.</div></div>

To that I say...bullshit.

I own a Rock Island tactical that I paid $415 brand new for and put well over 1500 rounds through so far with no problems whatsoever. In fact after seeing and shooting mine, in addition to reading all the positive reports about them, a couple of my buddies even ditched their piece of shit jam-o-matic Kimbers (all over $1000 mind you) for the less than $450 Rock Island. No problems with theirs either, and one buddies has well over twice the amount of rounds that I do through his.
 
#62
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keyser Söze</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gotta/start/sumwer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im dying to get my hands on a 1911, but that may not be a first timers choice. Im not big on 9s but with that said this is all going to come down to your hand, what fits you and your personal prefrence.. they said it best when they said go to range and rent and try them out.. very good idea </div></div>

It's not like I haven't shot pistols before I just dont own one. I would love a 1911 does anyone make a $500-$600 piece? </div></div>

None worth owning.</div></div>

To that I say...bullshit.

I own a Rock Island tactical that I paid $415 brand new for and put well over 1500 rounds through so far with no problems whatsoever. In fact after seeing and shooting mine, in addition to reading all the positive reports about them, a couple of my buddies even ditched their piece of shit jam-o-matic Kimbers (all over $1000 mind you) for the less than $450 Rock Island. No problems with theirs either, and one buddies has well over twice the amount of rounds that I do through his. </div></div>

I tell you what that two tone really does look nice. I am going to try to find a dealer and check them out.

Thanks for the info!
 
#63
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keyser Söze</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gotta/start/sumwer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im dying to get my hands on a 1911, but that may not be a first timers choice. Im not big on 9s but with that said this is all going to come down to your hand, what fits you and your personal prefrence.. they said it best when they said go to range and rent and try them out.. very good idea </div></div>

It's not like I haven't shot pistols before I just dont own one. I would love a 1911 does anyone make a $500-$600 piece? </div></div>

None worth owning.</div></div>

To that I say...bullshit.

I own a Rock Island tactical that I paid $415 brand new for and put well over 1500 rounds through so far with no problems whatsoever. In fact after seeing and shooting mine, in addition to reading all the positive reports about them, a couple of my buddies even ditched their piece of shit jam-o-matic Kimbers (all over $1000 mind you) for the less than $450 Rock Island. No problems with theirs either, and one buddies has well over twice the amount of rounds that I do through his. </div></div>

First off, I really hope this isnt the real Keyser Söze.
wink.gif




Fact is that rock island armory had to cut major corners in order to give you a 1911 for 415$. Cast frame, slide, lots of MIM parts, built/assembled overseas. Im glad you like it. I on the other hand wouldnt trust my life with a 400$ 1911. I had a springfield operator (msrp @ 1200$), loved it. Recently sold it because I just dont trust it. I may get another 1911 but it will be one that will be built right, in the US.

The 1911 is one of the most complicated/finicky designs around. To build one the right way it takes alot of time and money. How many threads do you see where people have problems with 600$-1200$ 1911s? Alot, because somewhere in that process the company cut a corner. How many threads do you see where people have problems with high end 1911s? Its not even close. Think about it, the design is 101 years old. Not condemning 1911s, the well built ones work fine, and will last a lifetime.

I think of it in the terms of watches. Before the quartz watch was invented people had mechanical watches. These watches are incredibly complex, tons of gears, and springs all moving within mere thousandths of each other. These watches are expensive, the good ones can cost alot (tag, hamilton, omega, rolex, ect) but they arent as accurate as a 10$ quartz watch from walmart. A mechanical watch can loose or gain as much as 15 seconds a day, they require maintained, and if anything breaks on it you have to take it to a watch maker to have it fixed.

Now, on the other hand (no pun intended) you have quartz watches. Quartz watches use a quartz crystal. Take a small battery, run a specific current through the crystal and it will resonate at a frequency. This frequency can be used to count time. Its extremely accurate, simple, durable, reliable, and extremely cost efficient.

My point is, if you want a 1911, fine. But understand that it is a complex machine, it is high maintenance, and can be very expensive. Sure you can get a cheap one, but do you trust it? I see alot of people who post things like " i have a 400$ 1911 that has never jammed in 2000 rounds!" Or "my RIA outshoots my friends kimber, and I paid less than half of what his POS cost!" But how long will it last? I borrowed a friends RIA before I bought my springfield. He had shot a few hundred rounds through it and called it "reliable", reliable enough to be his current HD gun. It was run of the mill. I bought 100 rounds of WWB at wallyworld and commenced to blasting. I had 3-4 malfunctions in 100 rounds. Mostly FTF, maybe the extractor, maybe the feedramp needed polishing, I dont know. What i do know is that's a 4% failure rate. I could never own that firearm and be confident that it would shoot when I need it to.

I have a 120$ seiko mechanical watch. I like it, but its complicated, I cant work on it, if it stops working Ill have to take it somewhere and spend big bucks to get it fixed, and yes, I have had problems with it. I knew what I was getting, if I needed a watch that had to work and be accurate id get a cheap quartz watch.

Moral of the story, you get what you pay for.
 
#65
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind do you recommend?
</div></div>

Why? Thought you wanted a glock or m&p?

You dont seem too knowledgeable about handguns. You need to go shoot different kinds and find out what you like and dont like.

Forget this "ill adapt BS", get what works best for you.
 
#66
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kind do you recommend?
</div></div>

Why? Thought you wanted a glock or m&p?

You dont seem too knowledgeable about handguns. You need to go shoot different kinds and find out what you like and dont like.

Forget this "ill adapt BS", get what works best for you. </div></div>

I want a lot of things and to be honest I will probably buy 3-5 pistols in the next 2-4 months. Why... cause I like to shoot and I have nothing better to do with my free time (which isn't much).

I dont know the first thing about handguns...hell guns at all but I learn fast and everything I have shot I have shot well. I can't learn unless I ask questions or I buy the weapon and play with it for a while. That's what cracks me up about everyone that talks shit on these forums...at sometime they didn't know a 22 from a 50 bmg but they look down on my opinions like I am slow or something. Not everyone is the same. We can get into welding, machining, hydraulics, electrical and I can make a lot of people look extremely stupid but I won't. I will help them and coach them through their first TIG welder, plasma cutter, ect. Even if their opinion is different.

please remember all of the life saving, concealed carry, zombie killing, world ending "who blah" doesn't matter to me since I am just a target shooter. If it comes down to that I am pulling out my next project...458 socom m4 (may go blackout).

I don't have time to go to the range for an entire day and shoot 10-30 different weapon. I will take whosever advice and at least go stick them in my hand and see if they are too uncomfortable. So sometime this week I will head back to cabelas and hold a few glocks, m&ps,1911s,rugers ect and see if they feel any different to me.

So at the risk of getting turned down again....what brand and why?

Thanks,
 
#67
Re: First Pistol?

Fine. You want a brand and a why? I'll go one better.

Get yourself an HK P30LS v1, stock number M730902LS-A5. Here's a write-up, on p. 2: http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/151794-please-school-me-p30ls-v3.html

It's 9mm, so it's relatively inexpensive to shoot. It's a long-slide variant with a light trigger that lends itself to certain types of competitive shooting, and it is about the ultimate in its class for adaptability to just about every size mitt known to man. It's only somewhat expensive, as it comes, and for your purposes (1) you won't be asking yourself if you bought enough gun, and (2) if you can find someone to give you some training you may just skillfully leverage the value of your investment. And lastly, should this phase pass and you move on to other pursuits, it will retain a certain amount of resale value, especially if you append a copy of this thread as a mark of provenance.
 
#68
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fine. You want a brand and a why? I'll go one better.

Get yourself an HK P30LS v1, stock number M730902LS-A5. Here's a write-up, on p. 2: http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/151794-please-school-me-p30ls-v3.html

It's 9mm, so it's relatively inexpensive to shoot. It's a long-slide variant with a light trigger that lends itself to certain types of competitive shooting, and it is about the ultimate in its class for adaptability to just about every size mitt known to man. It's only somewhat expensive, as it comes, and for your purposes (1) you won't be asking yourself if you bought enough gun, and (2) if you can find someone to give you some training you may just skillfully leverage the value of your investment. And lastly, should this phase pass and you move on to other pursuits, it will retain a certain amount of resale value, especially if you append a copy of this thread as a mark of provenance. </div></div>

Now that's a reply...

I am going to try to put my hands on one tomorrow! You honestly think this is the best bang for the buck? I wasn't planning on a $1000 handgun but if is that good I will spend the money.
 
#69
Re: First Pistol?

I just bought my friend's son his first gun. I went with a Glock 17. Timeless design, 9mm is a good starting round, you can keep it for life.

Eventually, you will want a 1911, but a great one is expensive, with the Glock you can get a great gun for around 600 bucks.

I think its hard to go wrong with a Glock 17 as a first pistol.
 
#70
Re: First Pistol?

Thanks for the reply. I actually already bought a Ruger SR9. I took everyone's advice and put a lot of weapons in my hand and it felt the best. like I said before I have sausage fingers from working so much and it is hard to get my hand around a lot of them. It seems to shoot well but I am curious to see what it does with good ammo. I have only shot the $11 / 50 box so far.

The M&P was a close second so that may be my next handgun purchase.
 
#72
Re: First Pistol?

Milan Metal you kinda sound like I did when I joined another gun forum back in the Fall of 09. I def sounded like an arrogant, know-it-all, prick but was humbled pretty darn quickly. So I wont give you a piece of my mind because I was once in your shoes. Definitely take the time to shoot a few different guns and get to know about firearms as a whole, it will serve you well. I am still learning and am enjoying the journey.
 
#73
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Milan Metal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I actually already bought a Ruger SR9. </div></div>

I have about 1,000 rounds through my SR9C. No issues, easy to field strip and clean, feels great in my hand. It probably doesn't have the reliability of a Glock. It's not as fancy or collectible as a 1911, but I couldn't be happier having it to send rounds down range to put holes in paper.
 
#74
Re: First Pistol?

Well everyone all made some great suggestions, but I will be the different one thats for sure. My suggestions S&W 686 .357 magnum, revolvers are so much fun to shoot at the range, great for target shooting, ammo is cheap, and its nice to be able to use .38 spc or .357 magnum.

That was the first pistol my son shot, was my 686 and to this day he still loves it more, then my 8 other semi auto pistols.

Good luck
 
#78
Re: First Pistol?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't buy anything. Save your money. </div></div>

Don't save your money buy Gold and Silver.
 
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