So, with imi, pmc x tac, lake city m855, will all of them hold the same zero as m855 ammo with a trijicon acog or will the zero differ between brands even though its all m855 ammo?
First post here, but question regarding m855 ammo
- Thread starter Freedom Lover
- Start date
M855 is not very accurate ammo, it is really just designed to penetrate better than ball ammo
Probably close enough for what a soldier needs. But, depending on your goals, the slight differences may be relevant.
Each brand will have a slightly different velocity and POI from the same rifle.
If the difference is .5 inches on a rifle that makes 2.5" groups at 100yds and will be mostly shot under 300yds, do you care?
Probably close enough for what a soldier needs. But, depending on your goals, the slight differences may be relevant.
Each brand will have a slightly different velocity and POI from the same rifle.
If the difference is .5 inches on a rifle that makes 2.5" groups at 100yds and will be mostly shot under 300yds, do you care?
My experience will be that they all differ. Even different lots of the exact same brands will differ lot to lot. To me the question is how accurate do you need it to be?
My SR15 with a 16" barrel shooting Blackhills 77 on a not windy day and when I am doing my part is right at 1MOA at 100 yards. If I swap to some kind of M855 the group will open up buy 50 to 70%. (factory loads).
Nah this is my defensive rifle, if its good enough to hit man size targets out to 300 to 500 meters its good enough for me. Living in the hills is fun lol.
I would take IMI 77gr Razor core over M855 for that application by a wide margin. Better damage and a much better chance of hitting the target.
But, green tip, man, GREEN TIP.
Not being required to shoot mil issued ammunition, I would choose just about anything other than m855- for almost any application.
I tried my hand at making “Mexican Match” ammo with m855. All I did was pull the bullet, run the case through a bushing die to squeeze the neck down a couple of thou, and seat a different bullet from what I had on hand. And, what I had on hand was a smattering of “hand me downs” from my uncle’s passing. All groups at 10 shots, except for the last which show that m855 can make decent groups.
Let's keep perspective. Green tip for self defense? No, never.
If you need to defend against people wearing body armor, you are probably making poor choices in life.
Green tip is no better than any other 5.56 vs soft body armor, they all go through.
Green tip can't make it through hard armor and you are better off training for head shots with a more accurate round.
What defense situation requires or even justifies green tip.
For self defense I use ammo used by local police. If asked in court why, because they think it is appropriate for their officers to use in our environment.
Green Tip is a liability during the fight and in court.
If you need to defend against people wearing body armor, you are probably making poor choices in life.
Green tip is no better than any other 5.56 vs soft body armor, they all go through.
Green tip can't make it through hard armor and you are better off training for head shots with a more accurate round.
What defense situation requires or even justifies green tip.
For self defense I use ammo used by local police. If asked in court why, because they think it is appropriate for their officers to use in our environment.
Green Tip is a liability during the fight and in court.
Im not looking for absolute sub moa accuracy here. Imi razor core is too expensive per round in my opinion. M855 has always been priced cheaper than m193 every time i go to buy more ammo, and i havent found as reliable of ammo at a similar price to keep stock on.
You really are losing me, how much self defense ammo do you need that price is a leading factor?
This sounds more and more like the typical questions on Arfcom.... 
Well green tip are better for zombies and space insects.This sounds more and more like the typical questions on Arfcom....
No no no. Because of their biology, the only reasonable shot on a zombie is to the brain. Zombie skulls have the consistency of a rotting cantaloupe. You need something with fast expansion, like a vmax, or a zmax. Green tips are terrible for zombies.
(TBT, the zmax bullet was essentially just an AMAX with a green tip, and the zmax loads were essentially Hornady match in a different box. I wish I had bought every box I saw.)
You can buy PMC Bronze 55 grain FMJ for under .50 cents a round. You use these for practice. And stock them deep, for all manner of plinking around the farm. This stuff is available almost always.
For example:
PMC 223 Ammo
Then buy these for actual home defense for just under $1. a round. A 500 should do you, and last a good long time. This is what you defend your home and loved one's with. This stuff is barrier blind, and expands and stays together. It will also work well of game up to deer or pigs. This ammo can get hard to come by often, so buy it when you can.
For example:
Speer Gold dolt 223 Rem - Law Enforcement 55 GR SP 500 RDS FREE SHIPPING
Will they hit to the same point of impact? No, but they will be close enough, if you sight in with the Gold Dots for serious social work, and use Kentucky windage for the cheaper 55 grain stuff.
If you learn to reload, you can develop 55 gain hand loads for cheap FMJ and component Handloaded Gold Dots that hit to the same POI out to 200 yds or so. That's what I do with Hornady 62 grain FMJ's and 62 grain Speer Gold Dots.
IMHO and YMMV
I got a pallet of this trash on lock, I give zero fucks about accuracy cause when I don the Hawaii five O shirt and the boog is kickin I’m slapping this stuff from the hip
For the unwashed and uninitiated, what are we looking at?
M855A1.
Online source, unknown reputation:
“The M855A1 is an upgraded version of the standard M855 round, featuring a hardened steel penetrator for superior barrier penetration and lethality. With its lead-free design, this ammunition offers environmental sustainability without compromising on performance…
WHY BUY M855A1?
- Enhanced Performance: The M855A1 is an improved version of the standard M855 round. It features enhanced performance in terms of accuracy, lethality, and barrier penetration compared to M855.
- Steel Penetrator: One of the notable features of the round is the use of a hardened steel penetrator in the bullet’s core. This steel penetrator provides improved penetration through various types of barriers, including light armor and soft cover.
- Lead-Free Design: This round is designed to be environmentally friendly due to it’s lead-free projectile. This reduces the environmental impact of firing the ammunition and aligns with modern military efforts to reduce lead contamination on training ranges.
- Enhanced Terminal Performance: This round is designed to provide consistent and reliable terminal performance. Its construction and design allow for effective target engagement and incapacitation.
- Adoption: This round has been adopted by various branches of the United States military, including the Army, Marines, and Air Force.
- Scarcity: This round is incredibly difficult to source. Furthermore, this is a round that is not readily available in many stores due to restrictions the government has imposed on the manufacturers.“
The zeros will likely differ. Why are you leaning toward m855? If it's because you know your rifle prefers it to m193, then that's reason enough.
Either m193 or m855 is good ammo, as long as you can live with it's short comings. Either can be effective, assuming that it is still above it's threshold velocity of around 2500 fps, below which it loses it's ability to tumble, yaw and fragment. It's pretty good stuff for a 20 or even 16", but for an 11.5, not so much, with an effective range of about 50 yards. For up close, it should be fine.
As far as m855 goes, pmc xtac has been pretty consistent from lot to lot. I get about 2 moa out of it and hitting reduced c zone type targets out to 300 is pretty easy. Beyond that, it gets dicey, especially is there more than a 5 mph wind.
I’m just playing devils advocate for a moment. I’ve got several accurate ARs and maybe 3k 855 and 3k M193. At 100 yards it’s basically a legit softball size group. I’ve accumulated about 5k 77 grain SMK. I load them over 24 grains of TAC in Lake City cases. Typical group size from the same rifles is 0.8MOA. I expect maybe 15x loads per case, so 0.17 per bullet, 0.08 per primer, 0.14 for powder = 0.39 per round. I’m not super fast, but I can crank 500 rounds an hour on my Dillon. You could even splurge for one of the Redding T7 presses for $379. If you’re thinking bulk and anything more than blasting ammo, reloading is a good choice. I wish I would’ve gone straight to reloading instead of initially buying 5k of each of those.
In fact I recently purchased 250 new primed Lake City 556 for $90 shipped.
If you’re thinking about civil unrest you’ll need to up your game
In fact I recently purchased 250 new primed Lake City 556 for $90 shipped.
If you’re thinking about civil unrest you’ll need to up your game
I use the cheapest stuff on the shelf, M193 or 855 doesnt matter.. Frontier, PMC XTAC, or Winchester all shoots the same. Biggest difference I seen is between 5.56 and .223 with the same brand.. Winchester target 55gr .223 was more accurate. (slightly higher velocity) I got some of that because it was cheap also. In a self defense scenario all of it will have the same effectiveness. Anything hit by any of it is going to be F'd. Unless you are shooting matches or hunting bigger game I dont see a point in anything else.
I agree with this, to an extent. There are other considerations in addition to the total cost, in terms of components.
First, you have to put a value on the time it takes to load that ammunition. To say that you can load 500 rounds an hour on your Dillon, is a bit misleading. This doesn't take into account the prep work. You can run it through a progressive press, but to do it right and wind up with ammunition that you would trust your life to, it takes a lot longer than an hour to produce 500 rounds of finished ammunition.
Whether you run a progressive press or not, you still have to size the brass before you size check and trim each case. Then there's primer pocket prep and decrimping, if necessary. Then there deburring and chamfering.
No, not every step is absolutely necessary, everytime, to produce ammo that will shoot; but to produce ammo that you can rely on, I think it is. If you account for time, that .39 a round can quickly double or triple.
For 90% of your shooting out to 300 or 400 yards, unless you are shooting precision all of the time, can be accomplished with M193 or M855 at under .40 a round and all you had to do to get it is click the mouse button. Steel and/or paper doesn't care what you hit it with.
The days of boxes of 5000 primers for $100 and 5lb cans of powder for $125 are long gone.
Of course, if your time has little value because you don't have anything better to do or you're one of those guys that just enjoys loading ammunition, then it could be worth it.
For me, loading ammunition is a means to an end and the economy just isn't there for 5.56. Now, .308 is a different story. I'll load .308 to save a bit of money, but mostly for the tailored ammunition.
This is sort of true, but less so for 556 in my experience thus far. I don’t anneal my blasting ammo and I’ll usually check 5% of the cases for length after sizing. I don’t think I’ve done more than 2 firings on a case yet, but haven’t had to trim one yet. Besides, every time I go to the range I end up picking up 50-60 pieces of spent 556 brass while I’m picking up mine. I use a case prep center to chamfer and decrimp. I then tumble, then prime off the Dillon (I don’t trust it). Then lube and size (measuring 1 out of 20) drop powder, seat bullet and light crimp. I do this in 3 stages and just do a bunch of cases each time. Maybe I’ve just gotten crap 855 and 193, but I can’t imagine what I would be shooting at a distance of 300-400 yards where that level of accuracy would be worth the time involved in packing up my equipment and driving. Maybe other barrels shoot it better.
I initially thought 855 and 193 would be accurate enough for blasting for my purposes hence buying 10k. It wasn’t for me… total waste.
I’m not saying THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT. I’m just saying this was a much less expensive way to get blasting ammo that was also far more accurate.
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