First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

[IndySSD]

So I managed to swap some stuff that would have laid unused in my garage for years for my first "high power" bolt gun.

A Remington 700 ADL in .308, 24" barrel with a Cabellas 3-12x40 scope.

http://s1001.photobucket.com/albums/af139/IndySSD/?action=view&current=IMAG0406.jpg

This is my first "high power" bolt gun. I've got about 28 years of hunting/target shooting with .22 rifles (bolt action tube fed mostly) and shotguns. About 8 years or so of pistol 'amateur' competitions and a few steel and bowling pin matches. I've also put quite a bit of lead down range but never really shot much past 50-100 yards with my AK or SKS.

I took it to the range and ran 23 rounds through the rifle, about 8 rounds @ 50 yards (Between myself and a friend) just to make sure it was on paper, original owner was nervous about any "jostling" it may have gotten in the case in his trunk. Then it was off to 100 yards where I ran 3 groups of 4 (the final group pictured below after just a few tweaks to the windage and elevation during the first two groups) and my friend ran a group of 3 shooting from a bench using a "ladder rack" style support for the front of the rifle and supporting the rear with my off hand.

I'm fairly happy with the results for the first time out with the rifle but I feel like both the rifle and I are capable of better. I plan on shooting much further than the 100 yards we were shooting on Sunday so I really feel like I need to "tighten it up".

I've never had any real "Training" for long range shooting, just the basics about shooting that I learned from my Grandfather. Now that I actually have a .308 I want to get some practice in with it and I have a few questions that leap to mind. I plan on taking some "long range" training sometime next year, I need to get more comfortable with the rifle and get it into a more long term "squared away" configuration between now and then though.

1. What kind of accessories (besides glass) would a novice high power shooter REALLY benefit from on a rifle like this?


<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] I've only used rifles that were either tube fed or detachable magazine fed. This one loads four rounds in from the action, which is a little cumbersome and squirrely for me (probably because I'm not used to it). I really like the factory stock but I think I'd like to look into a DBM solution for this rifle.

[*]What about a bipod? Would a harris bipod attach to the forward sling attachment point and provide a sling attachment point of its own?

[*] I have been told that I should start a data log book, especially because I plan on reloading (probably this winter, finances aren't quite ready for the start up costs this summer. I thought I remember a SH advertiser/supporter who made/sold them, can someone point me in the right direction?[/list]


2. Gunsmithing needs/wants?

<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]So the action on this rifle seems "sticky" compared to the other bolt guns I've used, but I'm not sure what to expect? This rifle is almost brand new (previous owner said he put 17 rounds through it and then it just sat) so should it "loosen up" a bit with more use?[*] While the trigger isn't real heavy, I'm interested in possibilities so far as trigger pull goes, I think I'm a bit "heavy" on the trigger personally. Should I look at getting the trigger pull weight adjusted or just practice my trigger pull more? (or both?

) [/list]

3. How can I find out what the twist rate is? I tried Remington's website, the Wiki page for Rem 700's and various Google links but no luck yet.


Thanks for taking the time to read through all this and thanks in advance for any advice to a new'ish high power shooter.

 

[doubled]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

Fairly new myself and the things that made a tangible difference...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bipod</span> - (and orientated correctly) so you can front load it when shooting.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Glass</span> - Don't go cheap this investment will stay put with you.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Timney Trigger</span> - order direct from Timney and have them set it at 2.5 lbs. The 2.5lb pull, and the wide paddle made a huge difference for me.

A decent stock that allows the barrel to truly free float. Run a dollar bill under the barrel then take 5 shots then try to fit that same dollar bill thru again...

Once you do those items, learn how to shoot it until your skill gets up to speed with the rifle, then replace the barrel and tru the action to your new match grade barrel.

My limited .02 anyway.

 

[doubled]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

to add.... the bolt will loosen up with usage and I also forgot for a small fee you can get a KRG (search the board for this) clamp-on bolt knob. This made a huge difference for me in being able to not disrupt my shooting position while working the action vs. having to use that flat lima-bean shaped knob Remington is so proud of.

 

[IndySSD]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fairly new myself and the things that made a tangible difference...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bipod</span> - (and orientated correctly) so you can front load it when shooting.</div></div>

I've been looking at the different Harris Bipods but I'm a little confused about the differences and their descriptions on the website aren't very detailed in regards to what function each style is for? Perhaps I'm just a bit dense today but which model would I be looking for to do both bench and prone shooting? Swivel option sounds like it would be good but is it more harm than help for keeping shots steady at long ranges?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Glass</span> - Don't go cheap this investment will stay put with you.</div></div>

Yes, I'm not financially ready for this (Going to get going with reloading first I think) , nor am I currently outshooting my current (el cheapo) glass. I'll definitely be looking at USO, NF and Swarovski closely when I'm reaching out as far/further than my current scope lets me see. That's good advice for sure.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Timney Trigger</span> - order direct from Timney and have them set it at 2.5 lbs. The 2.5lb pull, and the wide paddle made a huge difference for me.</div></div>

This is exactly the type of suggestion I was looking for, is this something I would need a gunsmith to swap in or is it pretty simple? I'm pretty good with my hands and can break down most of my rifles but if it's something that could majorly screw up the rifle if I'm 1/8" off on something, I'd just assume pay a pro to do it for me.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A decent stock that allows the barrel to truly free float. Run a dollar bill under the barrel then take 5 shots then try to fit that same dollar bill thru again...</div></div>

Hmm, I hadn't even thought of this. So the current factory stock doesn't allow the barrel to float? I'll have to try your "dollar bill" test next range outing.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Once you do those items, learn how to shoot it until your skill gets up to speed with the rifle, then replace the barrel and tru the action to your new match grade barrel.

My limited .02 anyway. </div></div>

Sounds like a good plan! Thanks for the input.

 

[fdkay]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

First off, I would not worry about the trigger.
The X Mark is not my favorite trigger, but it works just fine. Adjust it to 3 to 3.5 lbs, no lower as they become inconsistent below that.

Harris Bipod (swivel) and pod loc.

New stock.
The stock you have will not work well with a bipod, here are some suggestions:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=486263

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=341824

This one is for a long action but they make them for short actions as well:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=275209

Glass: If your glass is tracking and repeatable, leave it alone for now.
This may be your biggest investment.
I learned mil/mil ffp on a falcon 4-14x and it has served me very well. Especially considering the price, I have since upgraded.

Don't rush out to buy stuff just because.
I would start with the stock, you can always shoot over a backpack and many folks actually prefer it.
Adjusting the old x mark trigger is easy, just one screw and some nail polish remover and fresh nail polish. Invest in an rcbs trigger scale (spring type) they are cheap and relatively accurate.

The stocks that I have listed are available elsewhere, shop around. Stocky-stocks etc...

 

[IndySSD]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, I would not worry about the trigger.
The X Mark is not my favorite trigger, but it works just fine. Adjust it to 3 to 3.5 lbs, no lower as they become inconsistent below that.

Harris Bipod (swivel) and pod loc.

New stock.
The stock you have will not work well with a bipod, here are some suggestions:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=486263

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=341824

This one is for a long action but they make them for short actions as well:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=275209

Glass: If your glass is tracking and repeatable, leave it alone for now.
This may be your biggest investment.
I learned mil/mil ffp on a falcon 4-14x and it has served me very well. Especially considering the price, I have since upgraded.

Don't rush out to buy stuff just because.
I would start with the stock, you can always shoot over a backpack and many folks actually prefer it.
Adjusting the old x mark trigger is easy, just one screw and some nail polish remover and fresh nail polish. Invest in an rcbs trigger scale (spring type) they are cheap and relatively accurate.

The stocks that I have listed are available elsewhere, shop around. Stocky-stocks etc... </div></div>

Oh so the existing trigger can be tuned? I'll definitely need to go check this out. RCBS trigger scale... Hmmm.... I'll go see what I can find on both of these items right now.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[doubled]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

if it is adjustable there should be an allen screw on the trigger. They come stock at 3.5 lbs w/ a 2 range adjustment. One rotation is supposed to be about 1-lb of adjustment.

I still think the Timney is the way to go, but this is all about personal preference. To me Timney is crisper, the wider paddle was more comfortable and the drop-in installation made it cheap and easy.

Stock is #1 by far, I think good glass is very important do you don't end up chasing a problem down that is inside the tube.

I bought the Millet LRS for less than $500, it's not the "best" but I can tell you it tracks back to zero every time without issue and it has performed well for me without any incident to date.

 

[RobG]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

You have a great hunting rifle. Why mess with it?

Now, if you have aspirations of making this a precision/tactical type of gun that you see here on SH, start reading and saving your pennies.

 

[fdkay]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if it is adjustable there should be an allen screw on the trigger. They come stock at 3.5 lbs w/ a 2 range adjustment. One rotation is supposed to be about 1-lb of adjustment.
</div></div>

It appears that it is an X mark, not an X mark pro though it is difficult to tell from the photo's.
An X mark is adjusted by the means of a single screw adjusting the pull weight on the front of the trigger assembly. There are two screws on the front of the trigger assembly, the lower controls pull weight. remove the sealant with nail polish remover, adjust the pull weight no lower than 3 lbs and put a drop of nail polish or loc-tite on the screw to keep it from backing out.

safety check the action/trigger and rock on.

Yes, the Timney is a superior trigger (very much so), but if he is on a budget, IMHO, the stock would be the first thing to change, followed eventually by the glass, rings and base. The trigger is the last thing that I would worry about.

 

[IndySSD]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have a great hunting rifle. Why mess with it?

Now, if you have aspirations of making this a precision/tactical type of gun that you see here on SH, start reading and saving your pennies. </div></div>

We can't hunt anything but Coyote in Indiana with a .308 (Which I will probably do also) but this rifle is kind of my "Long range starter" that I will probably hand off to my son when he's old enough to start shooting it. I plan on using this as kind of a "Trainer" to see exactly what I want when I determine I'm ready for a "serious" long range rifle.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if it is adjustable there should be an allen screw on the trigger. They come stock at 3.5 lbs w/ a 2 range adjustment. One rotation is supposed to be about 1-lb of adjustment.

I still think the Timney is the way to go, but this is all about personal preference. To me Timney is crisper, the wider paddle was more comfortable and the drop-in installation made it cheap and easy.

Stock is #1 by far, I think good glass is very important do you don't end up chasing a problem down that is inside the tube.

I bought the Millet LRS for less than $500, it's not the "best" but I can tell you it tracks back to zero every time without issue and it has performed well for me without any incident to date. </div></div>

Hmm, I haven't been able to put two shots together without breaking my shooting position yet. I felt like the bolt action was difficult to operate and had to put a bit of shoulder on it to run the bolt.

I think I'm going to get a fish scale and see how much weight it takes to operate the bolt and trigger, I'll try to post results when I do.

I'm surprised by everyone saying that the stock is #1.... Just shows how little I know about long range accuracy...

Thanks for the info and suggestions!



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doubled</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if it is adjustable there should be an allen screw on the trigger. They come stock at 3.5 lbs w/ a 2 range adjustment. One rotation is supposed to be about 1-lb of adjustment.
</div></div>

It appears that it is an X mark, not an X mark pro though it is difficult to tell from the photo's.
An X mark is adjusted by the means of a single screw adjusting the pull weight on the front of the trigger assembly. There are two screws on the front of the trigger assembly, the lower controls pull weight. remove the sealant with nail polish remover, adjust the pull weight no lower than 3 lbs and put a drop of nail polish or loc-tite on the screw to keep it from backing out.

safety check the action/trigger and rock on.

Yes, the Timney is a superior trigger (very much so), but if he is on a budget, IMHO, the stock would be the first thing to change, followed eventually by the glass, rings and base. The trigger is the last thing that I would worry about. </div></div>


I wasn't aware that the stock made "That" big of a difference. Hmm, I have a lot to learn...... The trigger is something I can definitely say seems affects my pulling of shots, that's why it was one of the first things I thought to adjust or replace. I guess I better just practice a lot at "pulling it better"

 

[T.Mihm]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

I'm also in your position as a newbie. After shooting my Howa with the factory stock, and then a Bell and Carlson, I can tell you right now I'd rather have a junk trigger and comfortable, solid stock than a fantastic trigger and factory stock. The aftermarket stock made shooting from positions slightly easier; it's so much more ergonomic, and reduced felt recoil by what feels like over 50%. For me, if something is uncomfortable to shoot, I'm not shooting it. Call me a wuss but a plastic butt plate to the collarbone 15 or 20 times just isn't for me. The Pachymayer pad that came with the stock made all the difference, and I was able to get more even pressure straight back with the design of the palm area.

Wall of text, but the "Stock 1st" idea is going to be VERY apparent once you pick one up, believe it.

-Travis

 

[IndySSD]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Travis Mihm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm also in your position as a newbie. After shooting my Howa with the factory stock, and then a Bell and Carlson, I can tell you right now I'd rather have a junk trigger and comfortable, solid stock than a fantastic trigger and factory stock. The aftermarket stock made shooting from positions slightly easier; it's so much more ergonomic, and reduced felt recoil by what feels like over 50%. For me, if something is uncomfortable to shoot, I'm not shooting it. Call me a wuss but a plastic butt plate to the collarbone 15 or 20 times just isn't for me. The Pachymayer pad that came with the stock made all the difference, and I was able to get more even pressure straight back with the design of the palm area.

Wall of text, but the "Stock 1st" idea is going to be VERY apparent once you pick one up, believe it.

-Travis </div></div>


I think you guys are right about the stock, I plan on saving up for a AICS 2.0 I think (I want to take some long range rifle training and I'll need to travel for it, nothing around Indiana that I've found) but I was eyeballing some Bell and Carlson "Tactical Medalist" stocks that were 1/3 the price that look like they'd be a big step up.

Since I plan on this rifle being my "long range starter" and will probably pass it down to my son when he's ready to start shooting, I might go ahead and see if I can catch a deal on a used B&C Tac Medalist while I'm saving for an AICS that I can move over to a custom rifle in a few years when Junior is ready to start going to the range as well.

Thanks guys!

Currently plan on upgrading the trigger and stock as soon as I'm able.

 

[adm09_003]

Re: First real HighPowerBolt Gun .308 pics n questions

I have seen it both ways. Replace the stock first or replace the trigger first. In my case i replaced the trigger first bc i hate remingtons triggers and a new trigger was less than going out and getting a new stock. I think my Timney was $125 and i have it set at 1.5-2 pounds(I dont have a trigger scale) and it is the best trigger i have ever squeezed! For the original stock you can pillar bed and skim bed the factory stock and shoot under 1 MOA and file down part of the stock touching the barrel and make it free floating. All those adjustments will help expecially if your on a tight budget. But those are just my .02 cents