Lookin to build a .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor. If I were to obtain a Rem. 700 short action, and bought a krieger or bartlein barrel, then a mcmillian stock and threw in a good trigger (jewel?) could i expect if i put all this together correctly to shoot under a 1/2 MOA consistantly - a 1000+ yard gun - for around $2000 rather than drop $4000 for a GA Precision? OR do i need to pitch in another $1000 for a templar or badger m2008 action? target, varmint and deer in that order would be the purpose of the gun, and as of right now i dont have a reloader, so i would like to see good accuracy with hornady match and superpreformace ammo... maybe the occasional friend to reload some berger 140gr bullets for me or something? Im kinda lost as to where to start but i feel like people build guns that can run with GA Precision guns. Thoughts?
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
First Rifle build -- pondering
- Thread starter Theedge_45
- Start date
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
If you've already got the 700, you'll help out the accuracy by getting it trued. Once that's done, you get a good barrel and have it chambered by one of the many good smiths on the Hide. Drop that in a stock with a good DBM that's bedded, and you'll have a good shooter. I'd also recommend getting a picatinny rail on top of that 700 action when you get it trued. Those 6.5s will make it to 1000 yards no problem so long as you do your part. Don't skimp on the glass. Rifles come and go, but I almost never sell my glass.
If you've already got the 700, you'll help out the accuracy by getting it trued. Once that's done, you get a good barrel and have it chambered by one of the many good smiths on the Hide. Drop that in a stock with a good DBM that's bedded, and you'll have a good shooter. I'd also recommend getting a picatinny rail on top of that 700 action when you get it trued. Those 6.5s will make it to 1000 yards no problem so long as you do your part. Don't skimp on the glass. Rifles come and go, but I almost never sell my glass.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
I would go with 6.5 creedmoor if you don't reload. Their factory 140gr AMAX loads are more than adequate in the right rifle to get you what you want.
Yes, you can get under 1/2 MOA and a "1000 yard gun" from a Remington factory action no problem. You can consider a chassis stock or getting a stock bedded.
Suggest getting the action trued. A Remington tuned trigger is more than enough, but if you get a new trigger I would go with Timney but Jewell is okay too.
Short action customs has a Remington SPS package. Take a look and ask Mark if he can rebarrel it in 6.5 Creedmoor bartlein. You'll have a top notch rifle at a fraction of the costs.
I would go with 6.5 creedmoor if you don't reload. Their factory 140gr AMAX loads are more than adequate in the right rifle to get you what you want.
Yes, you can get under 1/2 MOA and a "1000 yard gun" from a Remington factory action no problem. You can consider a chassis stock or getting a stock bedded.
Suggest getting the action trued. A Remington tuned trigger is more than enough, but if you get a new trigger I would go with Timney but Jewell is okay too.
Short action customs has a Remington SPS package. Take a look and ask Mark if he can rebarrel it in 6.5 Creedmoor bartlein. You'll have a top notch rifle at a fraction of the costs.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
A Remington 700 will run with the best of them if set up correctly. Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck with your build.
Regards,
Paul
A Remington 700 will run with the best of them if set up correctly. Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck with your build.
Regards,
Paul
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
A great gunsmith will be able to get the accuracy out of good components. Check out C. dixons builds in the gunsmithing section. The attention to detail appears to be rediculous, and to me is worth the cost.
With GA, I see it as you're paying for their reputation and a known good system. $4k might seem salty, but these custom builds arent cheap and you know what you're getting. As with my first build, it ended up being way more than I expected so keep this in mind.
Last, while Remington may guarantee a certain accuracy out of their actions. Will you actually know what it is until you get the gun all the way together. You may be disappointed once you get the rifle together and the stock action doesn't live up to your expectations. IMHO, spend the extra $5-600 and get a custom action with known high qualities. I went this direction for my first build and never looked back.
A great gunsmith will be able to get the accuracy out of good components. Check out C. dixons builds in the gunsmithing section. The attention to detail appears to be rediculous, and to me is worth the cost.
With GA, I see it as you're paying for their reputation and a known good system. $4k might seem salty, but these custom builds arent cheap and you know what you're getting. As with my first build, it ended up being way more than I expected so keep this in mind.
Last, while Remington may guarantee a certain accuracy out of their actions. Will you actually know what it is until you get the gun all the way together. You may be disappointed once you get the rifle together and the stock action doesn't live up to your expectations. IMHO, spend the extra $5-600 and get a custom action with known high qualities. I went this direction for my first build and never looked back.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Csal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who trues and attaches the rails? thats what i like to hear. </div></div>
If you don't have an action already, then I'd get a Surgeon if you've got the coin. $1400 gives you a great action, integral rail, and integral recoil lug. Now you just need to find someone who will chamber and crown your barrel, and then bed the stock for you.
You should start calling around and seeing what wait times are. Where are you located (fill out your profile)? Some guys like to work with smiths that are local to them. I've had great work done by APA, GAP, and Robert Gradous. I'm kind of set when it comes to having a favorite gunsmith, but if I were still in the market, then Accurate Ordnance, SAC, Beanland, and Blackops Precision would be at the top of my list. Picking a smith is like finding a girl for homecoming, you're the one that's stuck with her so you'd better pick the right one.
I will give you one piece of advice: buy great components and you've got a higher likelihood of getting a tack-driving rifle. Most smiths guarantee 1/2MOA, but if you ask them over a few beers, they'll tell you that most of their rifles shoot 1/3MOA at least during testing. They put 1/2MOA on their websites to manage customer expectations, and to build in some wiggle room if the customer can spend $4k on a rifle but can't shoot for shit. Remember, most often the accuracy problem is with the indian and not the bow. Just my 2 cents.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Csal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">who trues and attaches the rails? thats what i like to hear. </div></div>
If you don't have an action already, then I'd get a Surgeon if you've got the coin. $1400 gives you a great action, integral rail, and integral recoil lug. Now you just need to find someone who will chamber and crown your barrel, and then bed the stock for you.
You should start calling around and seeing what wait times are. Where are you located (fill out your profile)? Some guys like to work with smiths that are local to them. I've had great work done by APA, GAP, and Robert Gradous. I'm kind of set when it comes to having a favorite gunsmith, but if I were still in the market, then Accurate Ordnance, SAC, Beanland, and Blackops Precision would be at the top of my list. Picking a smith is like finding a girl for homecoming, you're the one that's stuck with her so you'd better pick the right one.
I will give you one piece of advice: buy great components and you've got a higher likelihood of getting a tack-driving rifle. Most smiths guarantee 1/2MOA, but if you ask them over a few beers, they'll tell you that most of their rifles shoot 1/3MOA at least during testing. They put 1/2MOA on their websites to manage customer expectations, and to build in some wiggle room if the customer can spend $4k on a rifle but can't shoot for shit. Remember, most often the accuracy problem is with the indian and not the bow. Just my 2 cents.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
GAP sells the Rock Rifle for ~ $3.4k with Badger M5 DBM. You can get it in 6.5CM. You would have a hard time buying components of the quality in that build yourself and getting it assembled for much less than that.
Here is what I think you might be able to pull off if you went with slightly less expensive components:
Remington Action (includes trigger) $400
Badger Bolt Knob $90
Tune Remington Trigger $65
EGW 20 MOA Rail $45
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
B&C or HS Precision Stock $200
CDI DBM (Includes Mag) $280
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Inlet for DBM $75
Metal Finshing $150
Chamber and True $350
Bed Recoil Lug Area $50
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $2,425
The gunsmithing prices I noted are some of the lower end ones I've seen. It is possible you may need to add between $50-$200 more depending on who's available and what their rates are.
Let's stick with the stock remington action, but make a few upgrades. We'll give you an oversize recoil lug, a Nightforce Base, and a Manners Mini-Chassis:
Remington Action $400
Badger Bolt Knob $90
Oversize Recoil Lug Instal $40
Tune Remington Trigger $65
NF 20 MOA Rail $115
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
Manners Mini chassis $900
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Metal Finshing $150
Chamber and True $350
Bed Recoil Lug Area $50
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $2,880
Now, let's do Surgeon DBM with an adjustable Manners or McMillan that's pillar bedded and throw in that Jewell trigger you want:
Remington Action $400
Badger Bolt Knob $90
Oversize Recoil Lug Instal $40
Jewell Trigger (w/ instal) $265
NF 20 MOA Rail $115
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
Manners or McMillan $600
Surgeon DBM w/ Mag $350
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Metal Finshing $150
Chamber and True $350
Pillar Bedding $225
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $3,305
You upgrade the action to a Stiller, Badger, Defiance, or Surgeon or drop your barreled action into an AIAX and you can see why these precision rifles cost so much.
Now let's do a top shelf build by Robert Gradous:
Surgeon Action $1,400
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
Jewell Trigger $225
Manners or McMillan $600
Surgeon DBM w/ Mag $350
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Gunsmithing $1,200
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $4,495
So, I don't think you can buy a brand new precision rifle for $2K. $2.5K is the absolute minimum if you don't get top shelf components. A little over $3K is about right if the build has most top shelf stuff, and you need to plan on spending over $4K if you want a top gun builder to put something together using top of the line everything. Also, you have deal with assembling everything together and find a gunsmith with time to assemble your build for you.
I hope this helps get you started.
GAP sells the Rock Rifle for ~ $3.4k with Badger M5 DBM. You can get it in 6.5CM. You would have a hard time buying components of the quality in that build yourself and getting it assembled for much less than that.
Here is what I think you might be able to pull off if you went with slightly less expensive components:
Remington Action (includes trigger) $400
Badger Bolt Knob $90
Tune Remington Trigger $65
EGW 20 MOA Rail $45
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
B&C or HS Precision Stock $200
CDI DBM (Includes Mag) $280
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Inlet for DBM $75
Metal Finshing $150
Chamber and True $350
Bed Recoil Lug Area $50
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $2,425
The gunsmithing prices I noted are some of the lower end ones I've seen. It is possible you may need to add between $50-$200 more depending on who's available and what their rates are.
Let's stick with the stock remington action, but make a few upgrades. We'll give you an oversize recoil lug, a Nightforce Base, and a Manners Mini-Chassis:
Remington Action $400
Badger Bolt Knob $90
Oversize Recoil Lug Instal $40
Tune Remington Trigger $65
NF 20 MOA Rail $115
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
Manners Mini chassis $900
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Metal Finshing $150
Chamber and True $350
Bed Recoil Lug Area $50
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $2,880
Now, let's do Surgeon DBM with an adjustable Manners or McMillan that's pillar bedded and throw in that Jewell trigger you want:
Remington Action $400
Badger Bolt Knob $90
Oversize Recoil Lug Instal $40
Jewell Trigger (w/ instal) $265
NF 20 MOA Rail $115
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
Manners or McMillan $600
Surgeon DBM w/ Mag $350
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Metal Finshing $150
Chamber and True $350
Pillar Bedding $225
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $3,305
You upgrade the action to a Stiller, Badger, Defiance, or Surgeon or drop your barreled action into an AIAX and you can see why these precision rifles cost so much.
Now let's do a top shelf build by Robert Gradous:
Surgeon Action $1,400
Seekins 30mm Rings $120
Bartlein Barrel $335
Jewell Trigger $225
Manners or McMillan $600
Surgeon DBM w/ Mag $350
Harris Bipod w/ Pod Lock $125
Gunsmithing $1,200
FFL $25
Component Shipping Costs $75
Finished Rifle Shipping Cost $40
Total $4,495
So, I don't think you can buy a brand new precision rifle for $2K. $2.5K is the absolute minimum if you don't get top shelf components. A little over $3K is about right if the build has most top shelf stuff, and you need to plan on spending over $4K if you want a top gun builder to put something together using top of the line everything. Also, you have deal with assembling everything together and find a gunsmith with time to assemble your build for you.
I hope this helps get you started.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Csal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lookin to build a .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor. If I were to obtain a Rem. 700 short action, and bought a krieger or bartlein barrel, then a mcmillian stock and threw in a good trigger (jewel?) could i expect if i put all this together correctly to shoot under a 1/2 MOA consistantly - a 1000+ yard gun - for around $2000 rather than drop $4000 for a GA Precision? OR do i need to pitch in another $1000 for a templar or badger m2008 action? target, varmint and deer in that order would be the purpose of the gun, and as of right now i dont have a reloader, so i would like to see good accuracy with hornady match and superpreformace ammo... maybe the occasional friend to reload some berger 140gr bullets for me or something? Im kinda lost as to where to start but i feel like people build guns that can run with GA Precision guns. Thoughts?</div></div>
Do not think twice on a smith to build your rifle.Go with Robert Gradous. He will be building my 2nd one shortly. This one will be in a 260. My next one will be a hunting rifle with an exibition walnut stock.Money will not be an object on this one. Talk to him about your build or the the 260 he is building for me.You will not be disapointed. Tell him David sent you
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Csal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lookin to build a .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor. If I were to obtain a Rem. 700 short action, and bought a krieger or bartlein barrel, then a mcmillian stock and threw in a good trigger (jewel?) could i expect if i put all this together correctly to shoot under a 1/2 MOA consistantly - a 1000+ yard gun - for around $2000 rather than drop $4000 for a GA Precision? OR do i need to pitch in another $1000 for a templar or badger m2008 action? target, varmint and deer in that order would be the purpose of the gun, and as of right now i dont have a reloader, so i would like to see good accuracy with hornady match and superpreformace ammo... maybe the occasional friend to reload some berger 140gr bullets for me or something? Im kinda lost as to where to start but i feel like people build guns that can run with GA Precision guns. Thoughts?</div></div>
Do not think twice on a smith to build your rifle.Go with Robert Gradous. He will be building my 2nd one shortly. This one will be in a 260. My next one will be a hunting rifle with an exibition walnut stock.Money will not be an object on this one. Talk to him about your build or the the 260 he is building for me.You will not be disapointed. Tell him David sent you
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
Wow guys. So much information. So much good info. Im not even sure what to reply to first. haha. So i guess the common consensus is to build not buy like a Kimber 8400 Advanced Tactical in .300 Win Mag... (another thought i had today...)
Wow guys. So much information. So much good info. Im not even sure what to reply to first. haha. So i guess the common consensus is to build not buy like a Kimber 8400 Advanced Tactical in .300 Win Mag... (another thought i had today...)
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
Or you can just go ahead and save the coin for a dta. Lets be honest this sport is addicting. Today that 308 is fine... And then you shoot so and so's 338 lm at a match. Before you know it you want 5 different calibers. DTA is the most practical way to accomplish this I have seen to date. 1 chassis, 1 scope, and all the calibers I want. Initial cost is high but after 2 or 3 conversions you have saved THOUSANDS!
Or you can just go ahead and save the coin for a dta. Lets be honest this sport is addicting. Today that 308 is fine... And then you shoot so and so's 338 lm at a match. Before you know it you want 5 different calibers. DTA is the most practical way to accomplish this I have seen to date. 1 chassis, 1 scope, and all the calibers I want. Initial cost is high but after 2 or 3 conversions you have saved THOUSANDS!
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
One thing you should really consider if you decide to go with 6.5 creedmoor, you'll almost certainly have to start reloading at some point. I think Hornady's 6.5 superpreformance sells for around 45$ per box of 20 rds and it is almost never available over the counter, you gotta order it. 6.5 creedmoor has great ballistics but you'll still need practice to become proficient with any individual rifle so the cost shooting is gonna be a sharp kick in the nuts. After about 800 rds the ammo will have cost as much as your rifle. I have a friend who is starting to reload for this exact reason. Just something to factor into your cost calculations.
One thing you should really consider if you decide to go with 6.5 creedmoor, you'll almost certainly have to start reloading at some point. I think Hornady's 6.5 superpreformance sells for around 45$ per box of 20 rds and it is almost never available over the counter, you gotta order it. 6.5 creedmoor has great ballistics but you'll still need practice to become proficient with any individual rifle so the cost shooting is gonna be a sharp kick in the nuts. After about 800 rds the ammo will have cost as much as your rifle. I have a friend who is starting to reload for this exact reason. Just something to factor into your cost calculations.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
6.5 CM match ammo is available for for around 23 to 25 a box.
You should consider reloading as it will allow you to shoot more for the same amount of money.
I did the general math and found that you could build a very good, tack driving rifle for around 1800 (without optics)
Rem 700 short action ADL - 379
Match barrel (bartelien is excellent, but there are others) 300
action truing and barrel install 350
new recoil lug 35
MCree unfinished chassis 515
5 round mag 65
Shilen or Timney trigger about 150 installed
There is a bit of a fudge factor with the barrel cost, figure between 300 and 350 though.
6.5 CM match ammo is available for for around 23 to 25 a box.
You should consider reloading as it will allow you to shoot more for the same amount of money.
I did the general math and found that you could build a very good, tack driving rifle for around 1800 (without optics)
Rem 700 short action ADL - 379
Match barrel (bartelien is excellent, but there are others) 300
action truing and barrel install 350
new recoil lug 35
MCree unfinished chassis 515
5 round mag 65
Shilen or Timney trigger about 150 installed
There is a bit of a fudge factor with the barrel cost, figure between 300 and 350 though.
Re: First Rifle build -- pondering
Throw in a decent bipod, base, rings, rear bag and you're over $2K, especially if you want any finishing work done or a threaded muzzle. It's a fun hobby but there's nothing cheap about it.
Throw in a decent bipod, base, rings, rear bag and you're over $2K, especially if you want any finishing work done or a threaded muzzle. It's a fun hobby but there's nothing cheap about it.
