First Rifle Input

TEzNJ

TEzNJ

Private
Minuteman
Jan 27, 2022
44
18
Hawaii
#1
Hey everybody first post here! Just curious what everyone's input is on these rifles listed below.
  • JP15
  • DDM4V7
  • SIG MCX VIRTUS
I was thinking one of these would be my first rifle I would like to run for a long time, my purpose in the future is practical shooting. Let me know which way gun you guys would lean towards. Also open to suggestions on what I should look for when buying an AR.

Thanks,
-Z
 
#2
Those are all fine & all would be good choices.

But if you have the $$$$ & can justify it, I'd take the JP first, DD 2nd.

Lots of good rifles from reputable sources that have been around for a while & have a model than fit your needs.

Besides the ones that you mentioned, BCM, KAC, Radian, LMT, LWRC, ADM, Sionics, Sons of Liberty Gunworks, Barnes Precision, Ranier, & FN America all build quality products.

It really depends of your budget & what you like & what your want the gun to do.

MM
 
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#3
MontanaMan said:
Those are all fine & all would be good choices.

But if you have the $$$$ & can justify it, I'd take the JP first, DD 2nd.

Lots of good rifles from reputable sources that have been around for a while & have a model than fit your needs.

Besides the ones that you mentioned, BCM, KAC, Radian, LMT, LWRC, ADM, Sionics, Sons of Liberty Gunworks, Barnes Precision, Ranier, & FN America all build quality products.

It really depends of your budget & what you like & what your want the gun to do.

MM
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. I definitely have the money to get a JP. I have been looking at BCM, KAC, LMT, and FN for a little.

Thanks,
-Z
 
#4
Of the three you mentioned I'd go with the Sig MCX Virtus. But you might also want to consider the FN SCAR 16, HK mr556a1, or piston ARs like the Barrett Rec 7 gen2, LMT, LWRC, PWS.

The Marine Corps is slowly moving to the HK m27 piston rifle for all active duty infantry, and the DoD's NGSW program doesn't feature any direct impingement carbines. Piston driven/push rod, rather than direct impingement, seems to be the direction the U.S. military is headed, presumably because piston runs cleaner and cooler where it matters most- the action, because it vents the waste gases at the gas block.

Direct impingement delivers the combustion waste right to the action. Eugene Stoner invented the piston AR18 only after the Di AR15 was already chosen by the U.S. forces, and had that happened in reverse order, the piston ar18 would've probably been the chosen design.
 
#5
TEzNJ said:
Thanks for the input. I definitely have the money to get a JP. I have been looking at BCM, KAC, LMT, and FN for a little.

Thanks,
-Z
Click to expand...
since you have the money, go kac/lmt and then the rest are just that; the rest. FN, BCM have nothing on the Colt (pre 2018 if you can get one) so I'd scratch those. JP is nice but expensive and you just buying accuracy. ARs truly are the product with diminishing returns so spend accordingly
 
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#6
Milf Dots said:
Of the three you mentioned I'd go with the Sig MCX Virtus. But you might also want to consider the FN SCAR 16, HK mr556a1, or piston ARs like the Barrett Rec 7 gen2, LMT, LWRC, PWS.

The Marine Corps is slowly moving to the HK m27 piston rifle for all active duty infantry, and the DoD's NGSW program doesn't feature any direct impingement carbines. Piston driven/push rod, rather than direct impingement, seems to be the direction the U.S. military is headed, presumably because piston runs cleaner and cooler where it matters most- the action, because it vents the waste gases at the gas block.

Direct impingement delivers the combustion waste right to the action. Eugene Stoner invented the piston AR18 only after the Di AR15 was already chosen by the U.S. forces, and had that happened in reverse order, the piston ar18 would've probably been the chosen design.
Click to expand...
And they suck, the M27 that is. Broken bolts, having issues with M885A1. This was really just a work around to get a more accurate M4 since the Marine Corps is still infatuated with 500 yard paper shooting. The M249 replacement was bullshit.

Piston AR's are a solution looking for a problem. 10-20 years ago there as an argument for certain situations (Short barrel, very high volume, suppressed shooting) but the DI guns have been figured out.

DI is still king in the AR world and that is not changing anytime soon.
 
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#7
TEzNJ said:
Hey everybody first post here! Just curious what everyone's input is on these rifles listed below.
  • JP15
  • DDM4V7
  • SIG MCX VIRTUS
I was thinking one of these would be my first rifle I would like to run for a long time, my purpose in the future is practical shooting. Let me know which way gun you guys would lean towards. Also open to suggestions on what I should look for when buying an AR.

Thanks,
-Z
Click to expand...
Those are good options. Sig is a wildcard as to quality and support. JP makes great game guns, but if you don't have a hard use AR, I would look elsewhere. DD makes good guns, but they are really dated and not a good value for the money.

This is hands down the best value on the market right now for a hard use gun with all the great modern features people are looking for:
dsgarms.com

08-188S Geissele Super Duty 16.25" 5.56 mm Rifle - DDC

The Geissele 08-188S Super Duty Rifle features the latest in weapon technology available exclusively from Geissele Automatics. This 16” rifle chambered in 5.56 features a Nanoweapon coated Surefire Closed-Tine Warcomp mounted to an in-house 16” Mag Phosphated Cold Hammer Forge, Chrome Lined, 1-7...
dsgarms.com dsgarms.com

I would take $2K and buy that then take $2K more and buy a Vortex Gen 3 razor to stick on it. Now you have an incredibly capable 0-600 yard rifle with the ability run it like a aimpoint close and reach out and see what you are hitting on 10x.

If you are a first responder, the price is much better, if not, its still a great price. If you want to spend less, BCM is a great option as well but they have been really hard to find the last few years. LMT also makes fantastic rifles but like KAC, anything from them in impossible to find with a 1-2 year wait if you can even get on a backorder list. That G rifle is in stock right now. Many heavy , long time KAC guys will tell you its probally the only other factory AR that gives it a run for the money, and does it at 30-50% of the going price.
 
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#8
Buy a sons of liberty I owned several now and moving forward I will only ever buy Solgw Colt and maybe LWRC (haven’t spent much time with them)

You couldn’t give me another giessele. Over gassed piece of shit.
 
#9
DeathBeforeDismount said:
And they suck, the M27 that is. Broken bolts, having issues with M885A1. This was really just a work around to get a more accurate M4 since the Marine Corps is still infatuated with 500 yard paper shooting. The M249 replacement was bullshit.

Piston AR's are a solution looking for a problem. 10-20 years ago there as an argument for certain situations (Short barrel, very high volume, suppressed shooting) but the DI guns have been figured out.

DI is still king in the AR world and that is not changing anytime soon.
Click to expand...

I understand most replies will vehemently defend the much dirtier running Di design- because probably 90 plus percent of our U.S. civilian market already bought Di, and because there's a huge industry built around parts and accessories for Di ARs.

But there's no doubt the future is trending toward piston based carbines as evidenced by the USMC's moving to the HK 416 and the Army's NGSW.

Piston designs solved a lot of the problems the m4 still struggles with- heavy dust environments, short barrels, suppressed, high volumes, Di's need for a silly amount of cleaning and lubing...

Had Stoner designed the ar18 first, we'd all be running piston ARs and nobody would be arguing for the much diertier direct gas and it's set of disadvantages.
 
#10
Milf Dots said:
The Marine Corps is slowly moving to the HK m27 piston rifle for all active duty infantry, and the DoD's NGSW program doesn't feature any direct impingement carbines. Piston driven/push rod, rather than direct impingement, seems to be the direction the U.S. military is headed, presumably because piston runs cleaner and cooler where it matters most- the action, because it vents the waste gases at the gas block.
Click to expand...

Why does this even matter?

Are you saying that the design and construction of the AR-15 didn't take into account the hot gas entering the cylinder inside the bolt carrier?
 
#11
TEzNJ said:
my purpose in the future is practical shooting.
Click to expand...
Do you mean practical shooting sports, or larping/fantasy gun camp?

If you mean the former I'd suggest taking a look at the rulebook of whoever organizes the sport you want to play before burning any of your cash.

If it's the latter, disregard my advice.
 
#12
TEzNJ said:
Hey everybody first post here! Just curious what everyone's input is on these rifles listed below.
  • JP15
  • DDM4V7
  • SIG MCX VIRTUS
I was thinking one of these would be my first rifle I would like to run for a long time, my purpose in the future is practical shooting. Let me know which way gun you guys would lean towards. Also open to suggestions on what I should look for when buying an AR.

Thanks,
-Z
Click to expand...
For practical shooting I would go LMT. DD is overpriced, sigs are hit and miss and are currently over priced. JP makes a great rifle, but they fit more into target shooting. KAC is great but LMT is a better value.
 
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#17
Lots of good choices have been offered.

Geissele is NOT over-gassed per this recent SH thread...
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/geissele-got-me-on-their-new-years-sale.7107023/

I purchased a Super Duty 16" URG from the same sale as the above thread's OP and shot last weekend. Very pleasant shooting, light recoil, and not over-gassed in the least.

I also own KAC, LMT, and others. I do think the Geissele Super Duty is a bargain at this time, but again, lots of good choices, many named by other posters here.


-Rainman
 
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#19
D_TROS said:
JUST buying accuracy...lol thats the whole point no?

Just buy the JP and be happy. They are consistently the most accurate AR avail and I dont believe its even close. I am continually astounded at what mine can do.


Regards
DT
Click to expand...
point is, you can get accuracy out of kac, lmt or others and the reliability. JP is nice, not the top
 
#21
hlee said:
Links to JP unreliability?
Click to expand...
mine was finicky with ammo among other things and certainly not my most accurate 'production' rifle. Like I said, nice but not KAC or LMT in total package. You like yours, that's great, not saying you need to ditch it. But punching the higher end of the pool, there really are only 2 platforms to spend money on
 
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#22
RUTGERS95 said:
mine was finicky with ammo among other things and certainly not my most accurate 'production' rifle. Like I said, nice but not KAC or LMT in total package. You like yours, that's great, not saying you need to ditch it. But punching the higher end of the pool, there really are only 2 platforms to spend money on
Click to expand...
A KAC may be finicky on ammo as well as they are gassed for mil spec ammo.
 
#24
Do you shoot suppressed?
You going to hunt anything with this setup?

Do you like to tinker?

Food for thought.......while you still can......consider buying all the tools and building your own. Being able to build, troubleshoot, repair, upgrade and having an understanding of your system is invaluable to me.

I get coming here to get opinions, some awesome guys here with WAY more knowledge than me and I've learned a TON over the last 11 years.

Maybe buy a nice one and buy tools and build a cheapo on the side....it will teach you a TON.

Many great companies out there have been mentioned. LMT and LWRC often get overlooked.

Ultimately it comes down to what you plan on the main role of the rifle fulfilling.

Good luck and I'll let the guys with more experience chime in.
 
#26
Its training ammo. Granted i don't train or take classes when its below 0' but i have put 10's of thousands of rounds of steel cased ammo through a few different KAC guns and did not see any issues. No one is running steel case for work time ammo.
 
#27
My first rifle list is DD, BCM, LMT and now just recently Geissele Super Duty rifle. I hear good things about the Sig, but Ive never run one so no comment. And I'd say KAC, but good luck finding one, and if you do $$$$$$$. I own one and like it very much, but I bought it before insanity started.

PB
 
#28
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Its training ammo. Granted i don't train or take classes when its below 0' but i have put 10's of thousands of rounds of steel cased ammo through a few different KAC guns and did not see any issues. No one is running steel case for work time ammo.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree...............& I've run lots of steel case ammo & PMC Bronze thru them in warmer temps with no issues at all...........................ever.

And yes, anyone using it for anything more than basic range ammo is a fuckin' idiot.................but there are always a few & worst if all, they criticize the gun when shit ammo fails.

Never had a single issue with a KAC with NATO ammo at any temp.

MM
 
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#31
OP, you mentioned the MCX piston gun... Don’t let someone talk you into a Di gun if you aren’t specifically after one- it just isn’t necessary to settle for one these days. You shoot Di guns, they get much much dirtier than piston guns due to the dumping of waste gases right into the action. With piston guns you just clean the gas valve.
 
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#32
Milf Dots said:
You shoot Di guns, they get much much dirtier than piston guns due to the dumping of waste gases right into the action.
Click to expand...
AcceptableJitteryElk-max-1mb.gif
 
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#36
So, I am a real fan of my Virtus. However, as I live in a large college area students get desperate and offload stuff they have barely used and then i become an even more broke researcher. I switched to a MI 12.5" rail and had the barrel cut to 13.5" by Dave Wilson. It is now my main hog blaster.

It is the smoothest shooting suppressed 5.56 gun I've shot between DD, LMT, the Bill Gwiesle AR (not by much), and a couple home brews with the same cans. It is not worth the $3k people are trying to get on GB. It runs just as dirty as any DI gun after you add a can. It is at least a little less gassy than the above DI guns when running drills and shooting faster. For those who recommend BCM, most of their guns I've run are grotesquely over gassed even without a can. The Virtus is also heavy so get ready to enjoy that pleasantry if you plan on carrying it much.

Personally, I'd go the route of either the Geissele or JP rifle unless you found a good deal on the Virtus.
20220128_225436.jpg
 
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#37
Longshot85 said:
Do you shoot suppressed?
You going to hunt anything with this setup?

Do you like to tinker?

Food for thought.......while you still can......consider buying all the tools and building your own. Being able to build, troubleshoot, repair, upgrade and having an understanding of your system is invaluable to me.

I get coming here to get opinions, some awesome guys here with WAY more knowledge than me and I've learned a TON over the last 11 years.

Maybe buy a nice one and buy tools and build a cheapo on the side....it will teach you a TON.

Many great companies out there have been mentioned. LMT and LWRC often get overlooked.

Ultimately it comes down to what you plan on the main role of the rifle fulfilling.

Good luck and I'll let the guys with more experience chime in.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, my state won't allow suppressors at all, and I'm not looking into hunting. Thanks for another suggestion, I don't really like to tinker. But I will consider building my own!
 
#39
#41
I have both JP and Sig. The JP shoots softly and accurately but the Sig has a lot of recoil and 1.5 MOA with my best loads. I keep them in the safe since the three of my own DIY builds shoot just as good as the JP. I use them for competitions mostly and they just plain work.

I only clean them when the cycling starts feeling "slow" (around 1k rounds). They run fine in cold, heavy dust, rain, etc without being cleaned. Basically, what I'm trying to say is don't be afraid with building your own. You can use the savings to buy ammo/reloading components or optics.
 
Last edited:
#42
If you must get a piston gun, get a Barrett Rec7 instead of the Sig.
I'd wait a few months & look into the new DD RIII too. DLC Coated BCG & full ambi lower. Should be quality & I'm strongly leaning towards buying one myself.
 
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