First Rimfire, caliber question

V

vaughngoalie35

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Minuteman
Jun 20, 2011
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Central Ohio
#1
Ok, so I have been looking for a rimfire bolt action, and I have decided on a savage, with accu triger. My question is in the caliber. It will be for plinking, but I really enjoy trying to get good groups and improving my shooting ablilities. I also like shooting at farther distances then 75 yards. Its between the .17hmr and .22lr and I believe there are pluses on both. I understand the .17 hmr will go farther, but is affected by wind. I also know the .22lr will not go as far. My question is at 100 yards or so, which will be more affected by wind? Is the extra weight of the .22 enough to keep it straighter? Also, I know the .17hmr is more expensive, but how does it compare to the .22lr, but also, what about 5.56? I was wondering if its about the same price range.
Thank You
 
#2
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

If you are shooting small game at 100 yards, the HMR will hit harder and shoot flatter. The last time I priced 50 rounds of HMR, I thought to myself that I would rather be shooting a .223 with my reloaded ammo. A centerfire round like .223, will shoot farther, flatter, and cut through the wind better than an HMR.

I personally would take a .22 LR over a 17 HMR, but then I have a .223 and .22-250 for my varmint hunting needs.
 
#3
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Thank you, how much does the average 50 rounds of .17hmr compare to average 50 rounds .223 as far as price? Also, I have heard a .22 will go to 100 yards (with drop) and I was wondering at 100 yards, which caliber will be less affected by the wind? The .22lr or .17hmr?
 
#4
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Well, as far as rimfire goes, none beat quality plinking practice like the good ol' 22lr. Match ammo is much more abundant and also usually cheaper than the 17HMR. Both are great calibers, but for plinking I'd go with 22lr. Hunting the forest for small game i'd go with the .17 for splat factor. Alot of guys go towards the 223/5.56 vs. .17 cals because of cost. It's a toss up, and for me i'd have to own both some day. They both have great purposes but I have a feeling that the 17 is more suited as a dedicated squirrel/rabbit gun where as the 223 would spill more blood on medium sized game at longer distances. For paper punching, it's all 22lr for me as far as rimfire is concerned.
 
#5
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Thank you, how much does the average 50 rounds of .17hmr compare to average 50 rounds .223 as far as price? Also, I have heard a .22 will go to 100 yards (with drop) and I was wondering at 100 yards, which caliber will be less affected by the wind? The .22lr or .17hmr? </div></div>

It all depends on what you are buying. A 525 rd bulk box of Federal .22 lr is $14.99 (2.86 cents per round) and a 500 rd box of CCI Standard Velocity .22 lr is $23.99 (4.8 cents per round) - prices were as of yesterday at a local gun shop.

Prices of the 17 HMR seem to run around $11 to $15 per 50 round box, which puts you around 22 to 30 cents per round.

As for .223, if you're buying ammo PMC 55 gr. fmj 20 rd box is $5.50 (27.5 cents per round) and Federal XM193 100 rd box is $30 (30 cents per rd). If you are purchasing higher quality ammo the prices obviously go up from there. Fiocchi 40 gr 50 round box is $20 (40 cents per rd), BVAX 55 gr. V-MAX 20 rd box is $10.50 (52.5 cents per rd), Federal GM 77 gr SMK is $27 per 20 rd box ($1.35 per round), etc. If you reload, the per round price can be substantially less.

The 17 HMR is a sweet shooting little round. It obviously has a place in many shooters arsenals. However, I just don't have the need for the HMR round. My .22 lr rifles do a great job on small game and when I want to shoot out a little further I will reach for a .223. If the pricing of the HMR ammo was significantly cheaper (around the price of the 17 Mach 2), I would find the round more attractive.
 
#6
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

where are people getting this stuff about the 17hmr being terrible in the wind? Thats what i hate about the internet people just ASSUME what some idiot types on a forum is true. I swear every post i read someone states how bad the 17hmr is in the wind- i then instantly know whos never shot one.

Just to clarify the 17hmr bucks the wind better than ANY rimfire. Not even close. Now ive never shot my 17 hmr must past 100 yds in strong winds, but at 100 yds its more comprable to the 223 than the 22lr. I can hold sub moa groups even in windy conditions (15-20mph) at 100 yds all day with my 17hmr. The same conditions render my 22lrs useless at 100 yds, literally it will open the groups to 3-6 inches from a normaly 1.5 moa @100 yd or so gun.

Ammo is kinda pricey for the 17hmr i usually get it on sale 10$ for 50. But then again my 22lrs like lapua center x which is 9$ per 50 so i dont really save much on ammo. If you just wanna shoot cheap ammo a 22lr will be way cheaper but it doesnt shoot well in any of my guns, good for plinking if thats your thing.

I like 223 but it is even more expensive for decent ammo unless you start reloading then its not to bad for match grade ammo.
 
#7
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

midsouth shooters supply has the hornady vmax 17hmr for 10.53/50, they had it for 9.99 a box forever, but recently raised the price. As for the wind and the 17hmr, no big deal at 50, but in 10+ mph cross winds I see a big push on the bullet at 100 and beyond. Nothing you can't correct for, but it is noticeable. I tried the 20gr stuff for the wind, but my gun would not feed it reliably and it was quite a bit less accurate than the 17gr vmax. I have owned three 17hmrs and love them and will continue shooting them, but I think the 22lr is more fun, especially taking it to 200yds. Lots of 22 ammo out there, tons more choices than the 17, but the good stuff will be at least as expensive as the 17hmr ammo (wolf mt/ sk is cheaper and is an exception in most rifles). Expect to pay around $10/50 for good match 22lr, and more for the premium match variety. Both are still cheaper than centerfire match.
Also, if you are not very meticulous with your guns, go with the 22lr for less barrel cleaning. My 17 likes to be cleaned about every 50 round or so to retain maximum accuracy, my 22lrs...I clean the barrel about once or twice a year with a light cleaning, maybe a bore snake (although I do clean the bolt, face, and chamber area after shooting).
 
#8
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Well if you're looking to improve your shooting ability then the 22lr would be my choice. You can shoot a 22lr at longer distances than 100yards and there are lots of folks shooting 200+ with it. Why do you think there are so many 22lr guns out there being used as "trainers"? You can learn a great deal from shooting 22lr at a fraction of the cost of a centerfire.

The other bonus is if you don't have a large shooting range, the 22lr will allow you to challenge yourself at shorter distances.

For me 22lr is the way to go.
 
#9
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where are people getting this stuff about the 17hmr being terrible in the wind? Thats what i hate about the internet people just ASSUME what some idiot types on a forum is true. I swear every post i read someone states how bad the 17hmr is in the wind- i then instantly know whos never shot one.

Just to clarify the 17hmr bucks the wind better than ANY rimfire. Not even close. Now ive never shot my 17 hmr must past 100 yds in strong winds, but at 100 yds its more comprable to the 223 than the 22lr. I can hold sub moa groups even in windy conditions (15-20mph) at 100 yds all day with my 17hmr. The same conditions render my 22lrs useless at 100 yds, literally it will open the groups to 3-6 inches from a normaly 1.5 moa @100 yd or so gun.</div></div>
I'll be your huckleberry. I've shot .17s quite a bit and I've got "all day" to shoot against your .17 in 20 MPH wind at 100.

If you like the .17... fantastic, variety is the spice of life. I personally have ZERO use for a .17, absolutely none.

Edited to be nicer... "all day."
 
#10
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

LOL, if what your saying is you want to shoot your 22lr against my 17hmr in windy conditions, i will take that bet any day of the week for any amount of money, i live in s. ohio.

What im telling you is a fact not an opinion. It is not debateable unless your delusional. a 22lr 40 grain SV bullet drifts about 5 inches in a 10mph crosswind at 100 yds a 17 hmr vmax will drift about 3.

Me and my brother shoot closepins at 100 yds for $, their about 1/4 inch wide by three inches tall. We had to start a rule that if the first person shoots 22lr the next shooter has to as well, now why do you think we had to come up with that rule? It certainly wasnt because the person shooting their 22lr was getting rich.

Ilove 22lrs i have 7 of them and only 1 17hmr, but they cant compete with 17hmrs at 100yds. I have never in my entire life seen anyone consistently hold moa at 100yds with a 22lr, yet i see people consistently shoot SUB MOA with 17hmrs all the time. Is their really anything to even debate here? this is silly.
 
#11
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Well, I'll just bow out to your superiority in experience both practically and in spreadsheet ballistics. God knows I have no idea what I am talking about.
 
#12
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... Thats what i hate about the internet people just ASSUME what some idiot types on a forum is true. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now ive never shot my 17 hmr must past 100 yds in strong winds, but at 100 yds its more comprable to the 223 than the 22lr. I can hold sub moa groups even in windy conditions (15-20mph) at 100 yds all day with my 17hmr. The same conditions render my 22lrs useless at 100 yds, literally it will open the groups to 3-6 inches from a normaly 1.5 moa @100 yd or so gun. </div></div>

Pot, meet kettle...
 
#13
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never in my entire life seen anyone consistently hold moa at 100yds with a 22lr </div></div>
tumblr_lkdnnzpODu1qembgvo1_500.gif

I'm so excited!
 
#14
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

hey anthony I live in Central Ohio, but anyway back on topic...
I think im going to side with a .22lr, but still not 100% sure.
Anyway, Im looking at the savage mk2. A few questions:
1.how much does the average mk2 accutriger cost? I have seen everything from 100 to about 250
2.what would be a good scope? I would like to keep it fairly cheap (under 100). I would like an adjustable zoom. I will be shooting everything from 25 yards to (hopefuly) 150 yards. What would be good?
3.how do I put a scope on? I have seen guns w/ grooves on the side, but not a picitany rail look. Will I need a rail mount? where do I get one of these (are they hard to find?) Is it hard/tricky to instal?

my budget is about 300 total...what would you sugest for rail, mounts, and scope?

thanks everybody for the quick replies!
 
#15
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

.22lr. A smaller group size isn't everything.

Consistent groups size and the capacity to guage performance improvement is more important, IMHO.

Additionally, reach can be counterproductive if it forces the shooter to shoot further in order to see their dispersion reliably. The .22lr's earlier dispersion allows the shooter get reliable target feedback from a smaller range facility, which is likely to closer to home, and probably easier to find more of them.

The .17's jacketed bullet technology adds little to the process of paper punching, and adds cost to the equation.

I also think the temptation of getting longer hits with such a minscule projectile may lead to a lower kill vs wounding proportion on animals.

The '22lr just seams to be a long historically proven performer, and the .17's are probably an answer to a question nobody really had a need to ask. Beyond providing maufacturers with additional products to sell, I think their impact on the shooting sport is marginal.

Greg
 
#17
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Ok so I am pretty sure Im going with the .22lr, just because I can better justify the cost of ammo. G ruff I am pretty sure czs are out of my price, as I am looking for about 300 $ total. So what would you guys have for that budget? I would like a wood stock, as I would like to get a tacticool later on, or perhaps make one if its not that hard (Im sure it is).

So what would you sugest for good glass and mounting equipment that would be in my buget? thanks
 
#18
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

The Savage BV is laminate stock and should be in your price range. This gives you the option of picking up a taticool stock later down the road if you so wish. Accuracy of the BV is very good.
 
#19
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

The 17hmr and fn 5.7 are both weird calibers that answer questions no one asked. The 17 is great and flat shooting: I shot a buddy's 17 in gusty winds at about 75yds the shift in POI shot to shot was negligible. I bring up the 5.7 because it too is in the 22wmr class even though no one wants to admit it. A 17 is a pricey rimfire I prefer 22lr for cost. A 5.7 is a moderate cost centerfire that impacts like a 22 mag. So a pricey rimfire. For punching paper go 22lr for varmints go 223 and reload.
 
#20
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: anthony1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never in my entire life seen anyone consistently hold moa at 100yds with a 22lr, yet i see people consistently shoot SUB MOA with 17hmrs all the time.</div></div>

Hilarious s***! First of all, stop comparing apples to oranges. Second of all, if no one in your entire life could shoot an MOA group with a .22lr, I think a .22 caliber itself has nothing to do with their misfortunes. Mine shoots <span style="font-weight: bold">SUB MOA @ 100 YARDS</span>. And as you can tell, it's not an Anschutz!!!
 
#21
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Thank you grim I will go with the .22lr but I still don't have good glass and mounting equipment. I would like to keep everything under 300 but I don't want to skimp on bad glass either. What do you suggest? I would like a variable zoom.
Thanks everybody
 
#22
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

On a rimfire hands down the $99 crossfire on swfa. It's not the best glass money can buy but IMHO the best under 100 bucks. If looks mean a lot to you tho it looks ridiculous on my mark II TR and when I got it and put the sunshades on it my buddy picked it up and said , it looks like a bat, and it's heavy enough to beat someone with" both are true. Above 100 bucks for 150 ish locally you should be able to find a 3-9 Bushnell. I put a Tasco 3-9 on my 10/22T for years and it was excellent, I've put 3 better scopes on it and now the Tasco is back. You could try nikon tasco and bushel for budget scopes.
 
#27
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Don't toss out CZ just because they cost more. I was in the same boat once. I was looking for a 22lr and had my eye on the savage. I went over to visit a friend and he had a cz he wanted me to try. I was sold. I saved up for a while until I could get a CZ. I have never looked back. CZs are head and shoulders above the savage. I tried a savage at fleet farm after getting my CZ and I did not like it at all. If you want some very serious bang for your buck, get a CZ. Mine will hold MOA to at least 300 yards with CCI Standard....and it is a 22LR.
 
#28
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

I also say 22lr. Whats not to like with that one.

What no one has mentioned is the 17 HMR is a necked down 22 magnum. To compare it to 22lr is apples and oranges. The only similarity is they are both rimfires.

JMHO of course

44
 
#29
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

yes, I would like the cz, but for what im looking for, as a starter gun, and I wouldnt really want to spend 450 dollars on a .22, but I do think these are great rifles too. and I do agree that they arent really comparible, just for different purposes (thats why I wasnt sure which one was best for me).
I am not able to get to the shop any time soon, and I was wondering how much the average mk2 costs...Just the basic wood stock? thanks
 
#31
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Savage makes the MkII in several configurations. If it's a wood stock you want, you narrow your choices down quite a bit.

If you are ok with a "youth" model (which will probably not fit you if you are teenage or older...) then you would look at this one for about $250 through your FFL
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Defau...p;zipcode=85208

If you want a more adult sized stock that will fit you this one is the next step up at $351 to your FFL
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Defau...p;zipcode=85208

Or for another $50 (total of $400 through your FFL) you can get the thumbhole version of the one above.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Defau...p;zipcode=85208

Although at this point you may want to consider waiting a while longer and just getting the CZ. I remember Bud's having a great deal on them a while back... But that may or may not still be available. IIRC, it was $405 for a CZ 452 American and it was $420 all said and done for my MkII-TR. I made a bad decision and wish I could redo it and get the CZ but that was my mistake. That being said, I am very impressed with my MkII and can't complain about it
grin.gif


Anyways, Here's my recomendation: Buy the second one I listed if you're dead set on a wooden stock. Prices can go upwards from the ones I listed, but for your preferences I would say the second model (MkII - BTV) is the best choice. If you find somewhere down the line you want a different stock you can upgrade from the one that it comes with, and it has an un-fluted barrel so there is nothing to keep you from cutting it down if you feel it would be better shorter. Or if you feel it needs to be re-crowned.

Hope this helps,


Dylan
 
#32
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

Thanks guys sorry for the late response been on vacation...well I can find the gun I'm looking for under 200 at my gun store...I think I'm going with the mueller 4.5-16 tactical...it has target turrets and a lol dot...this should even out to about 300...what rings and base should I use, or can I attach it some way without a base? Thanks you guys
 
#33
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

EGW makes a solid and inexpensive base. Burris XTR rings are a good bet. But even the weaver rings they sell at Wally world are "ok"
 
#34
Re: First Rimfire, caliber question

You'll be happy with the Savage. I have a MK II BV with Mueller APV and for the money i spend i couldn't be happier. Would like to upgrade the scope eventually to something of higher X.

It seems like your set on a 22lr as the caliber, thats a good decision. For a fraction of the price of 17hmr ammo you can shoot, and you can always spend more on SK/Wolf and even Eley if you have some extra case.

The mueller scope is about as good as your going to do in your price range, i think they are great scopes for the money.

As for rings, Weaver and Burris come to mind. I recently put a pair of Burris Zee Signature rings on my BV, I'll try them out some time this week. The Signature Burris Rings allow you to use inserts to shim your scope and to zero your scope at longer ranges, if you plan to shoot past 100 yards with the gun i would look into those, less stress on the internal adjustments on your scope and allows you to keep the scope closer to optical center.
 
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