First serious bolt gun: AI AT? DTA? Custom Action (Defiance)? Other?

[JayMazee]

Ok.... So.... I'm looking at either putting together my first serious bolt gun. I have some precision semis and not precision bolt guns.

Here are some factors:

1. I'm on a budget but I know when to spend money. I have surefire rifle silencers, I have decent hardware. But, I CAN NOT afford to waste money. I'm 100% definitely and absolutely - Too Poor To Be Cheap.
2. I don't hunt currently, but I'd kick around starting, I spent 95% of my time in the Rockies, so Elk and Mule Deer are common
3. Don't currently compete, but would like to enter steel challege style competitions at some point
4. I felt a Sako TRG the other day and loved the fit and finish, I'm very aware of details and was pretty impressed with that
5. I love the look of the AT and AX chassis
6. I really like a two stage trigger
7. Looking at 308 and possibly 260 or 6.5x47, must be AI mag fed


I'm kicking around a custom defiance action that I have a very good and well known smith put together. I'm kicking around an AI AT which would allow me 308 and 260/6.5x47, but I'm a little put off on the cost difference between a 700/custom action + AT or AX chassis vs and AT rifle. I know it's valuable with the AI that if there is every a problem that having a stock rifle with a warranty is a great feature. DTA has had my eye in terms of size and function, but I think I'm already aware this is not a great first rifle.

Basically, I can afford ONE rifle + optic. I am considering the AT because it would allow me to swap 308/6.5, and I don't feel like I'd ever take a super hard hit on the cost, but I also feel like the price I can get on a custom 700 style gun would be far better than average and likely wind up lighter (a plus for competing and hunting).

Any thoughts? Am I even in the right game here?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

First, tactical style rifles are heavy to tote around hunting. I've done it the last for seasons and haven't whined much but many do.

Second, the cost between a custom and an AT is probably a lot closer than you think, especially for what you want. Here's a basic run down:

$1300 defiance action
$300 tube (or as much as $450 if you want fluting)
$350 jack trigger (since you want two stage)
$1000 for AT stock (add $200 if you want the new AX)
$350 install barrel (add $350 if you true the action and most smiths want to)

That's $3300 with no coatings and the AT stock. If you add $200 to have the barreled action coated, $200 for the AX chassis, $150 for fluted barrel, and $350 for action Turing you're looking at $4200. A smith will also likely charge a small fee for assembly.

One advantage to the custom is you could tailor it a bit more towards hunting if that's what you want to do. Or you can spend $500 on a basic hunting rifle if you want to get into it.

With the AI you get a rifle system made by one company, not parts spec'd from different companies and built by a third party. You get a super tough reliable rifle and features you can't find on other. You can order a barrel and change cals or rebarrel a burnt out barrel at home with an Allen wrench. If you're only going to have one rifle this is a huge advantage. To do that with a custom you're sending it back to the smith and waiting for him to get to it.

A custom has one advantage over the AI and that's it. You can tailor the weight and exact build to your purposes. The AI has many advantages over a custom.

In the end the choice is up to you. I wasted a lot of money on customs and won't do it again unless its strictly a hunting rifle build.

 

[beenjammin]

Or... wait until everyone starts dumping their 2013 and earlier AI models ( and other rifles) for the latest and greatest. Could prob get a good deal.

 

[Roddd]

There's currently an AIAX for sale here that's at the lowest price I've ever seen them and it's practically brand new. Consider that also, or like was said above, wait for other AIs to be for sale when everyone starts getting the newer models in the next few months.

 

[poison123]

Here's the best advice. Get behind all the options and see which you like.

AI stocks are not for everyone.
DTA's are not for everyone.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

+1 on that AX or waiting for another. You'll still be able to order barrels and change them at home but you'll need some tools to do so. You'll need a barrel vise which you can get a nice one for $60, an action wrench that you can get at mile high for $150, a breaker bar which you can pick up for $10-20 (don't need anything special like a snap on), but the most expensive part will be a torque wrench. You need a good one, not a $20 harbor freight special or a craftsmen. Plan on spending $250 or so on a snap on or equivalent. Keep this extra $500 in tools in mind when making your decision. If you want the ability to swap barrels, not just replace worn out ones then I'd probably lean towards the new rifles.

 

[FN in MT]

I'm far from an expert here but let me throw out another wrinkle that I encountered. The WAIT for all the parts to ARRIVE.

Post Shot Show I'd bet a Defiance action is at least 8 months if not 10 months out. I recently was quoted 16-20 weeks and it was 22 weeks. Certainly WORTH the wait though.

I'd bet that most hi end Tactical stocks are at least 6 months out if not more. I'm still waiting since June on a Mc Millan A-5.

Considering a used AI or a current, in stock model is the way to go if you don't like the wait.

 

[matt33]

A few years ago, I was in a similar position which you describe. I ended up with a 26" .308 Sako TRG and a S&B 5-25x P4f. It is an awesome tackdriver to be sure and the entire setup was worth every penny. That said, if I was starting from scratch today, I'd give serious consideration to the new AI AT in .260 Rem (assuming that chamber will be available) with a high quality 5-25x FFP or something similar (NF BEAST, S&B, Vortex Razor, ect...).

The ability of user to change AI AT barrels is awesome; that alone is worth the extra cost over the TRG to me.

 

[Shoottothrill]

I think that if you can afford an AI get one. I would definitely try and shoot both the AI and the DTA, to see what suits you best. I would look at a different rifle for your dedicated hunter if you plan on hiking alot when you hunt, something under 8lbs. I know alot of guys hunt with their DTA rifles and do really well. Both the DTA and AI rifles will be super accurate. As far as a custom you may have to wait awhile for parts, but the new AI's won't be out for awhile either and the DTA's seem to take a bit of time to acquire as well.

The thing about an AI is simply that it's just really the Baddest ass sum bitch on the planet.

 

[Bradu]

You can pick up a nice used custom rifle in the classifieds if you don't want the wait.

 

[JayMazee]

All good advice!

Seems like no one is out-right crapping on the AI. I agree that user barrel change is a great option for me. I also agree that in reality an action and torque wrench would probably be good to go.

Skipping DTA.

On the custom, I have a defiance action good to go, it's all buddy-deal stuff, so what it won't cost me in money, it will cost me in favors and time. About 6 months. In all likelyhood getting an AT in hand might be at least 6 months. That said, I'm not looking to purchase ANYTHING until June-July after I've taken a rifle class with a borrowed rifle. I'm just making plans and doing my research now.

Agreed that hunting is out of consideration. However, I am still cautious about the weight for competition stuff, moving around, transitions to handgun, shooting while standing, etc.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I was told end of February when I ordered my AT so they aren't too far out.

 

[Asperly Aimless]

A month ago I would have ordered a custom or bought one from the classifieds. As of last week, if I were just starting, the AI AT would be on my list.

Did you go for the folding option redneckbmxer24?

 

[dimar1492]

I was told end of February when I ordered my AT so they aren't too far out.

Looks like end of Feb. Or early March before they ship from England. Then they will have to go through customs. I was told to expect to receive the rifle in April or May. Guys at Mile high said we should have a more definitive answer tomorrow.

 

[Notso]

Make sure you shoot an AI before you buy. I've shot several of my buddies AICS, AEs and ATs and I just never found them to be comfortable to shoot. The stock just doesn't fit me right whereas my Manners T4 is a dream. I love AIs, but as someone said - they are not for everyone.

 

[JayMazee]

Make sure you shoot an AI before you buy. I've shot several of my buddies AICS, AEs and ATs and I just never found them to be comfortable to shoot. The stock just doesn't fit me right whereas my Manners T4 is a dream. I love AIs, but as someone said - they are not for everyone.

Just of of curiosity, what is your height and weight? And what specifically do you find uncomfortable?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

A month ago I would have ordered a custom or bought one from the classifieds. As of last week, if I were just starting, the AI AT would be on my list.

Did you go for the folding option redneckbmxer24?

Yes, I got the folder with 24" plain barrel.

Looks like end of Feb. Or early March before they ship from England. Then they will have to go through customs. I was told to expect to receive the rifle in April or May. Guys at Mile high said we should have a more definitive answer tomorrow.

I was told February by several sources. I suppose it will get here when it gets here though.

Make sure you shoot an AI before you buy. I've shot several of my buddies AICS, AEs and ATs and I just never found them to be comfortable to shoot. The stock just doesn't fit me right whereas my Manners T4 is a dream. I love AIs, but as someone said - they are not for everyone.

Whole militaries issue AI rifles and you don't see people getting kicked out because they couldn't qualify with it. Truth be told I don't like the feel of the pistol grip on my AX but I got over it and took second at a match with it. It's the Indian, not the arrow.

 

[Jethro3898]

Can't go wrong with an AI.....except if you want to take it hunting. I thought it would be cool to take it hunting......that lasted two trips.
I'm telling you, the weight of my AE got old really quick, and I don't hike up/down mountains to hunt. Not too bad if you have it slung over your shoulder, but carrying it in your hands gets old.

 

[Notso]

Just of of curiosity, what is your height and weight? And what specifically do you find uncomfortable?

6' 185lbs. I found the checkweld always hard to achieve while prone, as the rings were very low. Also the slab-sided stock was just unconfortable against my face. I also didn't particularily like the thumbhole grip. Again, none of that is anything wrong with AI, it was just personal preference. I'm sure if I shot with them for a while, I would get used to it. They were just not as naturally comfortable and intuitive as my Manners T-4.